Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[transam]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

nothing so cohesive as money.

So you fear losing yours...?

[candide]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Taken from the Guardian, Oct last year but still spot on.

From the continent, remainers’ sudden love for the EU looks like plain hypocrisy

 

If Britain’s remainers feel at home in the EU, they have a funny way of showing it. From a continental perspective, the undying love some remainers have been professing for Europe ever since the Brexitreferendum is puzzling. Because for decades, politicians and commentators in Britain either ignored, misrepresented or sneered at the European project. Now the UK is on its way out, people are suddenly taking to the streets draped in EU flags.

Yet it wasn’t too long ago that many of today’s die-hard remainers used much the same denigrating tone about the EU as the Brexiteers and their tabloid cheerleaders. Take Anna Soubry, the Tory rebel remainer who has even talked about creating a new pro-European party. Back in 2011 she was telling her constituents: “I believe the EU has become a huge, overly costly, bureaucratic organisation fundamentally lacking in both democracy and accountability to the many millions of people who pay for it through their taxes and who are bound to live by its rules”.

Actually, that's part of the explanation for the Brexit vote. British politicians have been bashing EU for years, in order to put the blame on someone else and also to put pressure on various decisions in the EU.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

And that's the fear - that the uk will continue to send nearly as much money to the eu....

That's not the fear DD.

 

The real fear is the consequences of ignoring that other British proverb:

 

'A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'.

 

[dick dasterdly]

36 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

If you were on the board voting for these payments and possibly arguing for them then yes you have a responsibility.

All assumptions, but it's irrelevant as we're talking about legal obligation.

[The Renegade]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

They have a problem, there is no viable replacement from the ranks, she is clever, she has become almost a cult figure without trying.

I do not think that anybody doubts that Merkel is clever.

 

Quote

Several EU countries are in advanced talks to set up a camp for rejected asylum seekers in a country on the continent but outside the European Union, Kurz said June 6.

Quote

Kurz, who wants a slimmer EU that focuses on core competences, 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-austria-frontex/austria-wants-eu-leaders-to-agree-on-strengthening-frontex-in-september-idUSKBN1JC0A2

 

More and more Politicians are now trying to cut out or bypass the EU ( Institutions ) and see it reduced in size because it is not fit for purpose.

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

why is he showing a pic of Mao's red book ?

Depressing when posters need to stoop that far.....

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, transam said:

So you fear losing yours...?

No, I don't have any and hell would freeze over before Germany stopped paying her pension obligations. Should the Euro collapse I get DM that would shoot up in value, if the UK does brexit and is back in again after a few years and has to use the Euro then the Euro would rise in value so it's a win win for me

[The Renegade]

I posted this 5 hours ago.

 

5 hours ago, The Renegade said:

They lied !! They promised £350 million a week for the NHS they squealed !!

 

Apparently May has went even higher

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/16/350m-extra-week-nhs-hunt-announces-theresa-may-locks-britain/

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-nhs/britains-may-to-pledge-20-billion-pound-health-service-cash-boost-reports-idUSKBN1JC10P

 

Time to wake up to reality. As much as it hurts and scares you, the UK IS LEAVING the EU.

 

Edited to add:

 

It is also in the remainers Bible, the Guardian, so it must be true ?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/16/may-to-unveil-20-billion-pound-a-year-nhs-boost

Look at the comments that have ensued.

 

There are a lot of butt hurt people loitering about this thread.

 

Most of them not even British.

 

How can that be ? Does HQ Brussels have the equivalent of a Russian troll factory ?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Depressing when posters need to stoop that far.....

I find it depressing when posters resort to posting pictures of their passports as some certification of their views. 

 

Especially if they have a habit of attacking other TVF members on the grounds of their own perceptions of nationality.

[Edit]: Example conveniently provided directly above:

 

Most of them not even British.

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That's not the fear DD.

 

The real fear is the consequences of ignoring that other British proverb:

 

'A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'.

 

isn't that a bit sexist ?.....my mind again.

[transam]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

No, I don't have any and hell would freeze over before Germany stopped paying her pension obligations. Should the Euro collapse I get DM that would shoot up in value, if the UK does brexit and is back in again after a few years and has to use the Euro then the Euro would rise in value so it's a win win for me

So you know everything about UK Brexit and the countries future failure and also what will for sure happen with your cash.... 

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That's not the fear DD.

 

The real fear is the consequences of ignoring that other British proverb:

 

'A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'.

 

Except 'the bird in the hand' has only worked out well for the wealthy... Edit - and the poor migrating to far wealthier eu countries....

 

Hence the brexit referendum result.

[soalbundy]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

All assumptions, but it's irrelevant as we're talking about legal obligation.

apparently, is there? I don't know but good will is important (or at least pretending to have it )

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I find it depressing when posters resort to posting pictures of their passports as some certification of their views. 

 

Especially if they have a habit of attacking other TVF members on the grounds of their own perceptions of nationality.

[Edit]: Example conveniently provided directly above:

 

Most of them not even British.

Well they are not, including British born who defected...

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I find it depressing when posters resort to posting pictures of their passports as some certification of their views. 

No certification of my views.

 

More of a  '' I am British, therefore I have a dog in this fight.

 

What is yours ? Being a non - Brit ?

[soalbundy]

15 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I do not think that anybody doubts that Merkel is clever.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-austria-frontex/austria-wants-eu-leaders-to-agree-on-strengthening-frontex-in-september-idUSKBN1JC0A2

 

More and more Politicians are now trying to cut out or bypass the EU ( Institutions ) and see it reduced in size because it is not fit for purpose.

good idea, I wish them well, I am all for reform and can see it coming

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

good idea, I wish them well, I am all for reform and can see it coming

And you do not see the problem with that ?

 

EU / Barnier in Brexit negotiations.

 

1. The 4 pillars are non-negotiable.

 

2. The EU Treaties cannot be changed.

 

Perhaps that is why Barnier has been rather quiet over the last couple of weeks.

 

Big change coming throughout the EU that is going to throw the EU negotiating stance right into the bin.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, soalbundy said:

apparently, is there? I don't know but good will is important (or at least pretending to have it )

Agree entirely.  The eu is showing no good-will at all, and yet for some reason the uk govt. is allowing the eu to dictate the agenda....

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

So you know everything about UK Brexit and the countries future failure and also what will for sure happen with your cash.... 

No more than the other speculators here, do I think brexit will be a success ? No, GB is a muddle through country, she has been lucky in the past but luck runs out eventually and brexit is the mother of all muddles.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Agree entirely.  The eu is showing no good-will at all, and yet for some reason the uk govt. is allowing the eu to dictate the agenda....

I would have thought the EU turning up for meetings with the UK negotiating team time after time while the UK team are unable to present their requirements goes beyond good will. 

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

And you do not see the problem with that ?

 

EU / Barnier in Brexit negotiations.

 

1. The 4 pillars are non-negotiable.

 

2. The EU Treaties cannot be changed.

 

Perhaps that is why Barnier has been rather quiet over the last couple of weeks.

 

Big change coming throughout the EU that is going to throw the EU negotiating stance right into the bin.

''maybe'' as the Zen Buddhist said

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The EU being the most cohesive part of Europe the statement is just factual. 

Cohesive! Good one! ?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

No more than the other speculators here, do I think brexit will be a success ? No, GB is a muddle through country, she has been lucky in the past but luck runs out eventually and brexit is the mother of all muddles.

Muddle in the past...Hmmm...So tell me how the muddled country became a huge financial country for it's size...Why is the UK pumping more money than countries of a similar size into the EU...?

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Agree entirely.  The eu is showing no good-will at all, and yet for some reason the uk govt. is allowing the eu to dictate the agenda....

The UK government isn't the one pushing the buttons, it will go the way it must go, no matter what the UK or the EU does, the two of them are just coloured lights.

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Cohesive! Good one! ?

That good old cohesiveness becomes more apparent everyday ??

 

Quote

Italy on Saturday demanded that the Netherlands recall two Dutch-flagged migrant rescue ships after one of the non-governmental organizations that operate them called Rome’s interior minister a fascist.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-italy/italy-demands-netherlands-recall-ngo-migrant-rescue-ships-idUSKBN1JC0GW?il=0

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Here you go

 

http://www.cityam.com/275454/michel-barnier-there-no-middle-way-single-market-customs

 

In or out, that is the UK's options.

 

In means under the control of Brussels, the ECJ and handing over £ Billions every year.

Once again a distorted response. TM had decided to leave the SM and CU before talks had started.

If you or anyone else can show where in the referendum act or any other legislation where it states that a vote to leave the EU would include leaving the SM and CU I am quite willing to stand corrected.

There cannot be a "will of the people" to leave the SM and CU if the question was never asked.

 

We can all quote Mr Barnier

"The UK has until the end of 2020 to change its mind about leaving Europe's single market, the European Union's chief Brexit negotiator has said."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43725817

 

BTW. it is a bit of a cop out posting links that people have to pay to read.

[nauseus]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I would have thought the EU turning up for meetings with the UK negotiating team time after time while the UK team are unable to present their requirements goes beyond good will. 

They just turn up to knock back any UK proposals and call them "negotiations".

 

"Keeping up appearances" in name only! But goodwill? Not a lot!

 

Fond Regards

 

Hyacinth Bucket

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

No certification of my views.

 

More of a  '' I am British, therefore I have a dog in this fight.

 

What is yours ? Being a non - Brit ?

No certification at all, that might be Grouse's passport! ?

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Once again a distorted response. TM had decided to leave the SM and CU before talks had started.

If you or anyone else can show where in the referendum act or any other legislation where it states that a vote to leave the EU would include leaving the SM and CU I am quite willing to stand corrected.

There cannot be a "will of the people" to leave the SM and CU if the question was never asked.

 

We can all quote Mr Barnier

"The UK has until the end of 2020 to change its mind about leaving Europe's single market, the European Union's chief Brexit negotiator has said."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43725817

 

BTW. it is a bit of a cop out posting links that people have to pay to read.

Try checking the EU's own membership rules.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

Those British proverbs ?

 

No-one with one of these would write '' Those British Proverbs ''

 

 

Busted

 

???

 

So what has Brexit got to do with you ? Are you in the same boiler room in HQ Brussels as tebee ?

Tebee standing in a Thai waterfall just over an hour ago. Got here from Brussels very quickly.