Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[The Renegade]

Just now, tebee said:

Both governments would be bound by WTO rules to enforce a border

tebee

 

All day you have been arguing that it is now enshrined in UK law that there will be no hard border.

 

Woke up and sampled the coffee have we ?

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

So you contend that not many Brits take up employment in EU countries because of high unemployment rates. For qualified people? Interesting...

Nope, your reading comprehension skills are letting you down again, or else you have caught dyslexia from tebee

 

Quote

The EU is not really a place to be looking for work if you are under 30. Too high a rate of unemployment.

 

Not rocket science 

I never mentioned qualified people. I did mention the abnormally high EU unemployment rates for under 30's.

[aright]

33 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Maybe I am dumb. If so explain to me why more Brits are not working in the EU? We're not talking about spud bashers though.

Europe is unsurprisingly a major destination for UK graduates who start work abroad. France was the most popular country for UK graduates who finished their degrees in 2015/2016 and were working overseas six months later, followed by Spain, Germany and Ireland. These four European countries accounted for 28% of all UK 2015/2016 graduates who found jobs abroad, according to the Higher Education Statistics Agency.

The Erasmus+ programme, which enables students to study or undertake work experience placements across the EU, has published a statement expressing its commitment to keep running after Brexit.

Regardless of how Brexit takes shape, demand for the movement of talent between the UK and the rest of Europe will continue, even if a work visa or similar permission is required to make it possible.

https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/working-abroad/668693-working-in-europe

 

 

Student numbers in UK higher education (2016–17)

In 2016–17, there were 2.32 million students studying at UK higher education institutions.

Undergraduate: 1.76 million

Postgraduate: 551,585

Full time: 1.80 million

Part time: 518,930

Students from the UK: 1.87 million

Students from the EU: 134,835

Students from non-EU countries: 307,540

Edited June 22, 2018 by aright

[tebee]

Just now, The Renegade said:

tebee

 

All day you have been arguing that it is now enshrined in UK law that there will be no hard border.

 

Woke up and sampled the coffee have we ?

Now you are getting it - under a hard brexit if the regulatory regimes differed north and south of the border , you would need a hard border. enforced as above.

 

But we have made a legal commitment not to create on in the withdrawal bill

 

Therefor NI remains in SM and CU 

 

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It does not matter what you want to negotiate.

 

According to your beloved EU / Barnier / Juncker / Tusk, freedom of movement is non negotiable.

There are plenty of existing clauses that can be used to throttle immigration. We choose not to use any. An addition option to limit free movement to those with an education may be achievable.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Nope, your reading comprehension skills are letting you down again, or else you have caught dyslexia from tebee

 

I never mentioned qualified people. I did mention the abnormally high EU unemployment rates for under 30's.

I'll do some research and revert.

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

Now you are getting it - under a hard brexit if the regulatory regimes differed north and south of the border , you would need a hard border. enforced as above.

 

But we have made a legal commitment not to create on in the withdrawal bill

 

Therefor NI remains in SM and CU 

 

No the UK has not.

 

Stop talking garbage.

 

It is still such an issue that in today's Guardian

 

Quote

The problem of avoiding a hard border with the Republic – said by the Irish taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, to be akin to a “riddle wrapped in an enigma” – is threatening to thwart all attempts to make progress on a wider deal.

It is the EU that is pushing for NI to remain in the SM / CU, despite being told by both the British Government and the DUP it is not going to happen.

 

Quote

With Theresa May refusing to countenance what Juncker described as the bloc’s “bespoke and workable solution”, of the Northern Ireland effectively staying in the customs union and single market,

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/21/eu-is-getting-ready-for-no-deal-brexit-says-jean-claude-juncker

 

Fast forward your brain 2 weeks tebee, you are way behind the times.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, aright said:

Europe is unsurprisingly a major destination for UK graduates who start work abroad. France was the most popular country for UK graduates who finished their degrees in 2015/2016 and were working overseas six months later, followed by Spain, Germany and Ireland. These four European countries accounted for 28% of all UK 2015/2016 graduates who found jobs abroad, according to the Higher Education Statistics Agency.

The Erasmus+ programme, which enables students to study or undertake work experience placements across the EU, has published a statement expressing its commitment to keep running after Brexit.

Regardless of how Brexit takes shape, demand for the movement of talent between the UK and the rest of Europe will continue, even if a work visa or similar permission is required to make it possible.

https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/working-abroad/668693-working-in-europe

I would have thought if 28% of graduates go to the countries mentioned the worldwide figure at a guess is 30-40% That's not a few. 

Ok, so let's limit free movement to graduates. I need to look at some numbers and do some sums ?. About 1M or so Brits living in EU including retirees. After 40 years. 28% of graduates hoeing to EU? Something doesn't add up. I went to Denmark in 1982 aged 28. I went to Germany in 1996. 

[aright]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Ok, so let's limit free movement to graduates. I need to look at some numbers and do some sums ?. About 1M or so Brits living in EU including retirees. After 40 years. 28% of graduates hoeing to EU? Something doesn't add up. I went to Denmark in 1982 aged 28. I went to Germany in 1996. 

I agree, I haven't best described the situation. The 28% is not the total number of graduates leaving the UK it is 28% of those who choose to live abroad, live in those countries..

[The Renegade]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

There are plenty of existing clauses that can be used to throttle immigration.

Not from the EU there is not.

 

Plenty of existing clauses to kick people out, but that has the liberal lefties up in arms to even suggest it.

[CG1 Blue]

44 minutes ago, tebee said:

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Can you explain which of the things that Leavers voted for would be delivered in a soft Brexit? For example:

 

- Ability to strike trade deals with other nations

- No EU laws forced upon us

- Reclaim fishing waters

- Come out of the CAP

- No ECJ jurisdiction

- No contributions to the EU budget

- No free movement of people

 

What would a soft Brexit deliver from the above list?

 

 

None - so you are one of those who want a hard brexit even if it means many losing their jobs ?

I'm illustrating that the thing you are championing is not a soft Brexit - it is simply staying in the EU but losing our seat. Why would anyone want that?

[Grouse]

24 minutes ago, aright said:

Europe is unsurprisingly a major destination for UK graduates who start work abroad. France was the most popular country for UK graduates who finished their degrees in 2015/2016 and were working overseas six months later, followed by Spain, Germany and Ireland. These four European countries accounted for 28% of all UK 2015/2016 graduates who found jobs abroad, according to the Higher Education Statistics Agency.

The Erasmus+ programme, which enables students to study or undertake work experience placements across the EU, has published a statement expressing its commitment to keep running after Brexit.

Regardless of how Brexit takes shape, demand for the movement of talent between the UK and the rest of Europe will continue, even if a work visa or similar permission is required to make it possible.

https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/working-abroad/668693-working-in-europe

 

 

Student numbers in UK higher education (2016–17)

In 2016–17, there were 2.32 million students studying at UK higher education institutions.

Undergraduate: 1.76 million

Postgraduate: 551,585

Full time: 1.80 million

Part time: 518,930

Students from the UK: 1.87 million

Students from the EU: 134,835

Students from non-EU countries: 307,540

Students should be taken out of migration figures. The UK has some great universities and we should attract as many bright students as we can and encourage the best to stay on

 

With regard to Brits working in EU I found this

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/16/brits-living-in-rest-of-eu-are-mainly-of-working-age-not-pensioners

 

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Not from the EU there is not.

 

Plenty of existing clauses to kick people out, but that has the liberal lefties up in arms to even suggest it.

Oh but there are. I'll get a list but they are used by other EU countries. Not having a job is one. Excessive immigrants from one country is another 

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Oh but there are. I'll get a list but they are used by other EU countries. Not having a job is one. Excessive immigrants from one country is another 

Not having a job does not stop anyone migrating throughout the EU. That is the whole point of free movement of people.

 

You can be sent home after 3 months if you do not have a job. This is not enforced in the UK because it has the UK liberal lefties up in arms.

 

I thought you were clued up in all this, or was it a load of bluster ?

Edited June 22, 2018 by The Renegade

[CG1 Blue]

49 minutes ago, tebee said:

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Can you explain which of the things that Leavers voted for would be delivered in a soft Brexit? For example:

 

- Ability to strike trade deals with other nations

- No EU laws forced upon us

- Reclaim fishing waters

- Come out of the CAP

- No ECJ jurisdiction

- No contributions to the EU budget

- No free movement of people

 

What would a soft Brexit deliver from the above list?

 

 

So Mr CG1  blue here - is he not advocating a hard Brexit ? doing those things pretty well means it going to have to be a hard brexit

Incorrect.  I'm asking if your soft Brexit delivers ANY of the things people voted for in the referendum.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Not having a job does not stop anyone migrating throughout the EU. That is the whole point of free movement of people.

 

You can be sent home after 3 months if you do not have a job. This is not enforced in the UK because it has the UK liberal lefties up in arms.

 

I thought you were clued up in all this, or was it a load of bluster ?

As I say, many of the problems are of our own making. The clauses are there. Use them.

 

This is worrying for UK

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/c07d3388-4a18-11e8-8ee8-cae73aab7ccb

[The Renegade]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

This is worrying for UK

The time for worrying was Feb 2016 when Cameron went to the EU and was sent home like a scolded child.

 

The time for worrying is over.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

None - so you are one of those who want a hard brexit even if it means many losing their jobs ?

 

- Ability to strike trade deals with other nations

- No EU laws forced upon us

- Reclaim fishing waters

- Come out of the CAP

- No ECJ jurisdiction

- No contributions to the EU budget

- No free movement of people

 

The above points from CG1 Blue are all reasons for the out vote. The order of priority may change according to individual but we would like for all of these to happen. Some of us happen to think that they combine to become more important than the near-term economy.  

[HAKAPALITA]

Graduates.i remember when ypu worried if one left your Nation.Geologist, Engineers,Medical etc, now its a surplus of Dress Designers or Social Studies dorks no one wants anyway.!!


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[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

The EU is not really a place to be looking for work if you are under 30. Too high a rate of unemployment.

 

Not rocket science ??

 

Your hypothesis doesn't make sense, the unemployment rate in the UK is 4.1%, but that includes immigrants, the UK unemployment rate for British nationals is 7.8%, the EU rate is less at 7.1%, and that is the average so includes the likes of Greece with their 20% unemployment, there are places like Germany and Holland with rates of unemployment equivalent to half of that which British youths are facing.  I think it has much more to do with the insular nature of British people combined with a lack of language skills.

[Kieran00001]

44 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Graduates.i remember when ypu worried if one left your Nation.Geologist, Engineers,Medical etc, now its a surplus of Dress Designers or Social Studies dorks no one wants anyway.!!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

We do produce a surplus of graduates in several subjects, including the likes of dress design, but that list doesn't actually include social studies, we need more and more of them.

 

Quote

Some 84.2% of social science graduates were employed three years after graduating, compared with 79% of arts and humanities graduates and 78% of graduates with science degrees,

The figures showed that 7.6% of social science graduates in employment were classed as managers and senior officials, compared with 3.6% of those with science degrees and 6.2% of those with arts and humanities backgrounds.

The analysis found more than 70% of social science graduates were in professional or associated technical occupations, while some 7% worked in finance and insurance.

"It's time to banish any lingering myths about the value of a social science degree.

"Our report shows that employers in the public and private sectors are queuing up to hire social science graduates.

"The UK is a world leader in social science, and it's vital that we maintain this capacity. Teaching and training the next generation of social scientists is an investment that will repay itself many times over," 

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-24707507

 

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Maybe I am dumb. If so explain to me why more Brits are not working in the EU? We're not talking about spud bashers though.

 

They have no need to.

 

Many adventurous Brits seek out the Far East rather than near Europe.

 

Not many notable financial centres in Rumania, Bulgaria and Poland.

[Grouse]

22 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

They have no need to.

 

Many adventurous Brits seek out the Far East rather than near Europe.

 

Not many notable financial centres in Rumania, Bulgaria and Poland.

Maybe for backpacking but not to settle down and raise a family.

 

I find it surprising that more of our engineers, scientists and mathematicians don't have work in the EU

 

Not everything is down to financial services....

[Grouse]

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/european-countries-by-population-density.html

 

This interesting. Maybe free movement needs to be adjusted by population density 

 

You find me on a train in Sweden between Stockholm and Copenhagen. One thing that hits you is the emptiness. 22 people per km2 compared to 270 in U.K. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Grouse

[The Renegade]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

Your hypothesis doesn't make sense,

 

Quote

The EU is not really a place to be looking for work if you are under 30. Too high a rate of unemployment.

 

Not rocket science 

 

What is the EU wide unemployment rate for people under 30 ?

 

Somewhere in the region of 15%.

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

44 minutes ago, Grouse said:

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/european-countries-by-population-density.html

 

This interesting. Maybe free movement needs to be adjusted by population density 

 

You find me on a train in Sweden between Stockholm and Copenhagen. One thing that hits you is the emptiness. 22 people per km2 compared to 270 in U.K. 

That is interesting.

So the UK is the 2nd most densely populated proper country. Unless you count Belgium, then we're 3rd.

[HAKAPALITA]

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-24707507
 

Banish the Myth.?.To most off us there too many waffling social arti farties, digital nomads and assorted useless academics.What we lack is Producers skilled in Technology, not Ideology.


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[Grouse]

European unemployment rate by country

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/

 

I believe <5% is effectively full employment

 

And this for youth unemployment 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/#0

 

And new graduates

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/5584/where-are-europes-unemployed-graduates/

 

And finally this is a good piece on graduate opportunity by country.

 

Clearly, specialist tertiary education is the best bet.

 

I favour free movement of all people with tertiary education.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Grouse

[SheungWan]

26 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Banish the Myth.?.To most off us there too many waffling social arti farties, digital nomads and assorted useless academics.What we lack is Producers skilled in Technology, not Ideology.

Pet peeves of the seriously uneducated know-nothings.

[HAKAPALITA]

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Pet peeves of the seriously uneducated know-nothings.

And a fine way to catch a Leach.