Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

sounds reasonable to me, but I would expect the same criteria to be applied for white supremacists and other neo-nazi groups

I agree! No problem with that

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Because they just can't.  They can only guesstimate

 

The only one you named that cannot be accurately calculated is the costs of loss of school places, the others have exact records and costs incurred.  And we can estimate the costs of new school places pretty accurately anyway.

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, Johnniey said:

A borderless world would be great, yet many who are allowed to live in Thailand(without jobs) seem to be against it. 

 

As a wise man said the other day - "reciprocation"

They self finance, and in doing so help the Thai economy.

Perhaps you can provide examples of Farangs, who obtain any benefits from the Thai state. 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Interesting but who is going to decide which groups are excluded?

Me! Or you. Who's turn is it? Any sensible grown up will do.

[Kieran00001]

37 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Profit margins are not the issue here. By saying this you seem to suggest it’s better for the UK to have a tiny but profitable fishing industry versus having a huge flourishing fishing industry providing jobs for hundreds of thousands of people.

UK waters provide 80% of EU member states’ fish. It’s not hard to work out what that translates to if we regained control of our waters.

 

Uk waters do not provide 80% of EU states fish, that is nonsense.  We currently have 30% of the quota of all species that visit our waters, that does not translate to 70% of fish in our waters being given to other countries, the fish move, they only spend some of their time in our waters, some less than 10% of their time, and we get to catch our 30% wherever we choose, which means going into their waters to catch them.  In reality, the majority of fish we catch spend the majority of their lives in other countries waters, so by your measure, are they not their fish?  

 

Hopefully Brexiteeers are not so stupid as to want our fishermen to be restricted to only catching fish in our waters, as if they were we would see them out of work for most of the year and we would see fish we enjoy, cod and haddock, off the menu for most of the year and us left eating sprats the rest.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

Just a random thought, and a slight tangent...

 

 

 

I see that the EU has recalled it's ambassador to Russia in the wake of the poisoning...

 

 

Why TF does the EU need an ambassador when individual member  countries have their own ambassador looking after their citizens interests ?

 

 

Smacks of overkill.....................or jobs for the boys.

It represents the dissatisfaction of a significant group - 20% of global GDP. A significant slap for Putin

[CG1 Blue]

17 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Nope, they are not only the country with the highest profit margin but also with the highest net profit in the EU.  Quite large assumptions you are basing your aguments on, you would be better served reading about the subject first.  And we will never see hundreds of thousands working in fishing, not unless Brexit knocks us back 200 years and we see people risking their lives in tiny clickers again, or unless we fish every species into extinction, which no body wants, everyone wants a modern and safe industry, which means less jobs because of bigger boats and everyone wants a sustainable industry that will continue for generations to come, so we need the quotas.

Why do you keep talking about bigger boats? As I said, UK waters provide 80% of EU member state’s fish. We are currently obliged to share this bounty with 27 countries. Once we’re out of the CFP we won’t have to.

 

After a period of revamping all the infrastructure our British fishermen will be supplying most of the fish to the EU member states.

 

Why would that not result in a bigger UK fishing industry?

[Kieran00001]

Just now, CG1 Blue said:

Why do you keep talking about bigger boats? As I said, UK waters provide 80% of EU member state’s fish. We are currently obliged to share this bounty with 27 countries. Once we’re out of the CFP we won’t have to.

 

After a period of revamping all the infrastructure our British fishermen will be supplying most of the fish to the EU member states.

 

Why would that not result in a bigger UK fishing industry?

 

And as i just said, the 80% you heard Farage talking about was just misunderstood nonsense.  The majority of our, actually 30%, of the quota, is caught outside of the UKs waters, it is just that those fish sometimes visit our waters.

[nontabury]

20 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

In 1996 the average uk fishing boat was 26.3 tonnes.  In 2011 it was 31.3 tonnes.  Not sure where you're getting the idea that the average size has been decreasing but you are wrong, and if you bother to take a look at the charts you will see that the other countries have expanded in average size at a similar rate.  And of course the opportunity for other countries to fish our waters goes back way before the EU, some agreements have stood since the Middle Ages, and they are agreements that not about to be broken.  And as for plundering our fish, that would actually be saving our fish from extinction, they are actually quite strict regarding quotas, most people do not regard the quotas as a plunder.  And I am actually concerned for British fishermens jobs, hence why I brought up the Uk seeking to ban some of our fishermens practice while the EU overruled and protected them.  You should also take note of the fact that British fishermen make the highest profits in the Eu and are enjoying their highest ever profits the industry has seen before making assumptions of what Brexit will bring for them, as they are largely dependent on exports it Maynard well not go in their favour.  And I am British, just not taken by the week rhetoric surrounding Brexit and all the glories it will bring.  And no, they are not 100% anything, some are for and others against, I know, because I do actually know a number of fishermen.

You quote a figure from 1996, this of course was long after the U.K were conned into joining the EEC. Much better to quote the figure of the British fishing industry pre EEC. When for example it would include the fishing fleets of Grimsby and Hull, which was at that time the largest fishing port in the world. Now miniaturized into one museum piece.

 

 

[aright]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Me! Or you. Who's turn is it? Any sensible grown up will do.

I presume that means you what with your education and knowledge. Grown ups would exclude young people of course. Sorry did you say sensible grown up? 

[jenny2017]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

What does a Jehovah's bystander do, pick up their broken teeth from the doorstep after an altercation with a fundamentalist Muslim ?

Sure. They wrap the teeth into a Watchtower brochure and continue. Watch out, the end is near!! 

[jenny2017]

6 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You quote a figure from 1996, this of course was long after the U.K were conned into joining the EEC. Much better to quote the figure of the British fishing industry pre EEC. When for example it would include the fishing fleets of Grimsby and Hull, which was at that time the largest fishing port in the world. Now miniaturized into one museum piece.

 

 

You quote a figure from 1996, this of course was long after the U.K were conned into joining the EEC

 

   The UK was conned into the EEC by whom? Please elaborate. 

 

 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Perhaps you can provide examples of Farangs, who obtain any benefits from the Thai state. 

Perfect timing. I'm actually getting free water delivery by the local government to my home right this moment :)

 

 

[transam]

14 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Sure. They wrap the teeth into a Watchtower brochure and continue. Watch out, the end is near!! 

That looks like Calais.....

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Doesn't that statement set your exclusion parameters. How are we going to be more inclusive?

I don't know, I admit it

[soalbundy]

35 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Sure. They wrap the teeth into a Watchtower brochure and continue. Watch out, the end is near!! 

It's near enough for me, I feel like a pillar of salt already.

[nontabury]

36 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

You quote a figure from 1996, this of course was long after the U.K were conned into joining the EEC

 

   The UK was conned into the EEC by whom? Please elaborate. 

 

 

The so called elite and politicians of that time. The main one being the British prime minister Edward Peadophile Heath.

You can see him here, smirking in this very informative video.

 

 

And Yes Jenny, I was one of those conned in 1975, much to my shame, allthough in my defence, this was a time before Google, with it’s  ability to provide us with much information.

  As the saying goes “ Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me”.

Edited March 23, 2018 by nontabury

[soalbundy]

50 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why do you keep talking about bigger boats? As I said, UK waters provide 80% of EU member state’s fish. We are currently obliged to share this bounty with 27 countries. Once we’re out of the CFP we won’t have to.

 

After a period of revamping all the infrastructure our British fishermen will be supplying most of the fish to the EU member states.

 

Why would that not result in a bigger UK fishing industry?

Iceland, Greenland, lots of fish there.

[Kieran00001]

34 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You quote a figure from 1996, this of course was long after the U.K were conned into joining the EEC. Much better to quote the figure of the British fishing industry pre EEC. When for example it would include the fishing fleets of Grimsby and Hull, which was at that time the largest fishing port in the world. Now miniaturized into one museum piece.

 

 

 

Grimby is now the worlds leading fish processing town and processes 80% of British seafood.  It employs 5000 people and is a £6 billion industry.  It is obviously at risk due to Brexit, trade tariffs and slowing of their ports could well cost them their market place, its nice that you care about all those people who lost their jobs all those years ago but you could also consider the people of Grimsby today and their jobs, it's just a shame that they also didn't and voted 70% Leave.

[jenny2017]

5 minutes ago, nontabury said:

The so called elite and politicians of that time. The main one being the British prime minister Edward Peadophile Heath.

You can see him here, smirking in this very informative video.

 

 

And Yes Jenny, I was one of those conned in 1975, much to my shame, allthough in my defence, this was a time before Go

^Thanks for the post. To be honest, I also feel conned with the Euro. Nobody I know wanted to have this "new currency" and all items finally doubled in price. When we still had the German Mark and I took out 700 for one week, I had to take out the same amount in Euros. 

 

  Let's just say that a lot of us got conned and canned by our governments. Nobody was asking me if I wanted the Euro. 

[CG1 Blue]

16 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Iceland, Greenland, lots of fish there.

Thanks for sharing that.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

In 1996 the average uk fishing boat was 26.3 tonnes.  In 2011 it was 31.3 tonnes.  Not sure where you're getting the idea that the average size has been decreasing but you are wrong, and if you bother to take a look at the charts you will see that the other countries have expanded in average size at a similar rate.  And of course the opportunity for other countries to fish our waters goes back way before the EU, some agreements have stood since the Middle Ages, and they are agreements that not about to be broken.  And as for plundering our fish, that would actually be saving our fish from extinction, they are actually quite strict regarding quotas, most people do not regard the quotas as a plunder.  And I am actually concerned for British fishermens jobs, hence why I brought up the Uk seeking to ban some of our fishermens practice while the EU overruled and protected them.  You should also take note of the fact that British fishermen make the highest profits in the Eu and are enjoying their highest ever profits the industry has seen before making assumptions of what Brexit will bring for them, as they are largely dependent on exports it Maynard well not go in their favour.  And I am British, just not taken by the week rhetoric surrounding Brexit and all the glories it will bring.  And no, they are not 100% anything, some are for and others against, I know, because I do actually know a number of fishermen.

Was that a Keynesian quote in there?

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Grimby is now the worlds leading fish processing town and processes 80% of British seafood.  It employs 5000 people and is a £6 billion industry.  It is obviously at risk due to Brexit, trade tariffs and slowing of their ports could well cost them their market place, its nice that you care about all those people who lost their jobs all those years ago but you could also consider the people of Grimsby today and their jobs, it's just a shame that they also didn't and voted 70% Leave.

Maybe processes 80% of British seafood but 2/3 of that is from Iceland!  

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Uk waters do not provide 80% of EU states fish, that is nonsense.  We currently have 30% of the quota of all species that visit our waters, that does not translate to 70% of fish in our waters being given to other countries, the fish move, they only spend some of their time in our waters, some less than 10% of their time, and we get to catch our 30% wherever we choose, which means going into their waters to catch them.  In reality, the majority of fish we catch spend the majority of their lives in other countries waters, so by your measure, are they not their fish?  

 

Hopefully Brexiteeers are not so stupid as to want our fishermen to be restricted to only catching fish in our waters, as if they were we would see them out of work for most of the year and we would see fish we enjoy, cod and haddock, off the menu for most of the year and us left eating sprats the rest.

This is educating me. Thanks. I knew nothing of these issues.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why do you keep talking about bigger boats? As I said, UK waters provide 80% of EU member state’s fish. We are currently obliged to share this bounty with 27 countries. Once we’re out of the CFP we won’t have to.

 

After a period of revamping all the infrastructure our British fishermen will be supplying most of the fish to the EU member states.

 

Why would that not result in a bigger UK fishing industry?

Please explain. It's still not clear to me

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

And as i just said, the 80% you heard Farage talking about was just misunderstood nonsense.  The majority of our, actually 30%, of the quota, is caught outside of the UKs waters, it is just that those fish sometimes visit our waters.

Hard to get at the facts here. I wish you two would agree and the explain to me! Thanks

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, aright said:

I presume that means you what with your education and knowledge. Grown ups would exclude young people of course. Sorry did you say sensible grown up? 

I look upon you as an equal. Rational, intelligent, informed, educated. You can be in charge. No problem with that.

[jenny2017]

45 minutes ago, nontabury said:

The so called elite and politicians of that time. The main one being the British prime minister Edward Peadophile Heath.

You can see him here, smirking in this very informative video.

 

 

And Yes Jenny, I was one of those conned in 1975, much to my shame, allthough in my defence, this was a time before Google, with it’s  ability to provide us with much information.

  As the saying goes “ Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me”.

Listening to his speech, he seems to be a fool. 

[nontabury]

32 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Grimby is now the worlds leading fish processing town and processes 80% of British seafood.  It employs 5000 people and is a £6 billion industry.  It is obviously at risk due to Brexit, trade tariffs and slowing of their ports could well cost them their market place, its nice that you care about all those people who lost their jobs all those years ago but you could also consider the people of Grimsby today and their jobs, it's just a shame that they also didn't and voted 70% Leave.

You are now mixing up the fishing industry with the processing industry.

And while the processors do indeed employ Nearly 5000,  mainly due to David Cameron pumping a large grant into Young’s seafoods, this figure is still lower than 10yrs ago.

Nearly up to the time of the referendum, the sitting M.P for Grimsby.  Austin Mitchell was a very big supporter of Briexit, and for good reason, knowing the industry having represented the town for nearly 20 yrs, unlike Richard Corbett the Labour M.E.P who is one of the 6 M.E.P’s representing Yorkshire and Humberside. He is of course a staunch supporter of remain, having previousely worked as a Bureaucratic advisory to the president of the E.u.

 

 

[nontabury]

13 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Listening to his speech, he seems to be a fool. 

You could’t be more wrong. And interestly he has since been proven right.