1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

You seem to miss comprehend my post as I was responding to NancyL about the cancer in the Isaan area but I will try and explain to you so that you might understand that your remark about pesticide is incorrect in regard to what I was posting.

The only place that the Isaan farmer uses any pesticide or herbicide is on his rice crop he does not use any on his vegetable garden that is growing his private use vegetables that is located around his house which is located in the small village and can be anything around 5 to 6 kilometres from the farm. his garden around his house is for his own families consumption not for sale. He is not a market gardener that sells his vegetable produce. Now do you understand what my post was about?

So he won't use them on the veges that he consumes, but will and does use them in great quantities on any other veges that he sends to market!

 

I've got it now!

17 minutes ago, torrzent said:

Since it is a "well known fact", do you have a link to any verifiable 3rd party stats which back up what you are saying? 

Agree with you and others re the parasite found in raw fish being responsible for the high incidence of liver cancer in north east Thailand.

 

Much written on it (and I have read it) and available on the internet, one link below, many others out there............

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-33095945

11 minutes ago, torrzent said:

Since it is a "well known fact", do you have a link to any verifiable 3rd party stats which back up what you are saying? 

It does not take much if you know Thailand

Isaan: Udon Thani, Khon Kaen: Glutinous Rice and sugar cane not vegetable market gardens it has the wrong climate. Very little pesticide and herbicide used on rice growing and non used on sugar cane growing.

Northern: Chaing Mai, Chaing Rai, Nan: vegetable market gardens, much higher use of pesticides and herbicides for use of human consumed vegetables

14 minutes ago, xylophone said:

So he won't use them on the veges that he consumes, but will and does use them in great quantities on any other veges that he sends to market!

 

I've got it now!

Isaan farmers do not have market gardens that grow for the markets. You have the wrong part of Thailand your market gardens are in the north region not the north east region. the vegetables for the markets in the northeastern region are shipped in from the north region

I get a mild case of food poisoning occasionally. Weak for a couple days. As a previous poster said, the cause is not always obvious. I don't eat fried food from vendors if it is from a stack of previously cooked items. Or even BBQ chicken if it has been sitting in the sun. Common sense helps.It seemed I got food poisoning from sliced fruit from a super once and once from a vendor but this is over a period of many years. Nothing to worry about. Unless you easily get bad reactions. Only ice with holes in it.

 

I know the labeling requirements in the States is influenced by lobbyists. If a label states it is pure this, it only has to be 80% that. The rules for inspecting meat are written by the industry. That's why there are periodic huge cases of contamination.

 

One tip: When I buy fruit from a vendor I point to one in the ice and say yen. Often there is sun on the fruit. Veggies tend to be cooked so not as big of a deal.

 

Regarding pesticides, fertilizers etc I know companies sell products in Thailand that are banned in their own countries. Bit of an organic, green movement starting but how good is the oversight?

 

How about raw meat that is sitting in the sun at a market? Maybe the flies eat some of the bad things. 5555

 

Living life fully is a risk.

"Very little pesticide and herbicide used in Thailand"

 

This is what I will remember from this thread to keep laughing.

 

So incredible that anyone can even think that what he is thinking could be the truth when everybody else knows the level of pesticides used in this country. Visit any farm and you will know. Not difficult actually.

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Russell17au said:

It does not take much if you know Thailand

Isaan: Udon Thani, Khon Kaen: Glutinous Rice and sugar cane not vegetable market gardens it has the wrong climate. Very little pesticide and herbicide used on rice growing and non used on sugar cane growing.

Northern: Chaing Mai, Chaing Rai, Nan: vegetable market gardens, much higher use of pesticides and herbicides for use of human consumed vegetables

I think the link below should settle a few points, because it does state that even rice farmers in Isaan use herbicides on their land, not to mention sugarcane (on a few other links). Once these chemicals get into the soil, then water and roots will take them up into the plants and the consumers will be affected.

 

This is what I have learned in summary with regards to herbicides and pesticides in Thailand: –

 

– Dangerous chemicals banned by scores of other countries are freely used here and there is no government body to stop it.

 

– These chemicals can be found on/in a greater percentage of food on sale at farmers markets, supermarkets and even those labelled "organic". Rice would be no exception because it is planted in soil which has been treated with herbicides and then flooded with water, making sure that these chemicals enter the plant.

 

– Several studies within Thailand have proven the above to be correct.

 

– Many farmers have suffered from debilitating illnesses and side effects from using these chemicals (see the link below).

 

– There is no way that a consumer here in Thailand can ascertain what is on and in his food, so ingesting chemicals is very common.

 

And just to add something else into the mix, research has shown that the high incidence of liver cancer in the north-east is down to the parasite/fluke gotten from eating raw fish.

 

In summary one would have to say that the consumer is being exposed to all sorts of unnecessary chemicals, many of which the body does not know how to handle, and which can be life threatening.

 

I don't know how this fits in with Russell17au's perception of things here, however I think it covers just about all the bases.........frightening as it is!

 

https://isaanrecord.com/2016/05/19/guest-contribution-planting-the-seeds-of-herbicide-free-farming-in-yasothon/

 

In recent years, the use of herbicides in the Northeast has soared. Farmers across the region have doused their fields with chemicals to rid the land of weeds, often suffering from dangerous health effects related to herbicide exposure……….

 

For years, farmers in Na Samai subdistrict have heavily relied on the use of herbicides in their farming practices. In 2012, all farmers in the area were spraying their fields with chemical products...........

 

 

All across rural Thailand the use of chemical agricultural inputs has increased dramatically in the past decade. Thai farmers’ spending on imported pesticides increased by 71% between 2007 and 2013, according to a recent study by the Ministry of Public Health........

 

 

Edited March 9, 20188 yr by xylophone

6 hours ago, xylophone said:

I think the link below should settle a few points, because it does state that even rice farmers in Isaan use herbicides on their land, not to mention sugarcane (on a few other links). Once these chemicals get into the soil, then water and roots will take them up into the plants and the consumers will be affected.

 

This is what I have learned in summary with regards to herbicides and pesticides in Thailand: –

 

– Dangerous chemicals banned by scores of other countries are freely used here and there is no government body to stop it.

 

– These chemicals can be found on/in a greater percentage of food on sale at farmers markets, supermarkets and even those labelled "organic". Rice would be no exception because it is planted in soil which has been treated with herbicides and then flooded with water, making sure that these chemicals enter the plant.

 

– Several studies within Thailand have proven the above to be correct.

 

– Many farmers have suffered from debilitating illnesses and side effects from using these chemicals (see the link below).

 

– There is no way that a consumer here in Thailand can ascertain what is on and in his food, so ingesting chemicals is very common.

 

And just to add something else into the mix, research has shown that the high incidence of liver cancer in the north-east is down to the parasite/fluke gotten from eating raw fish.

 

In summary one would have to say that the consumer is being exposed to all sorts of unnecessary chemicals, many of which the body does not know how to handle, and which can be life threatening.

 

I don't know how this fits in with Russell17au's perception of things here, however I think it covers just about all the bases.........frightening as it is!

 

https://isaanrecord.com/2016/05/19/guest-contribution-planting-the-seeds-of-herbicide-free-farming-in-yasothon/

 

In recent years, the use of herbicides in the Northeast has soared. Farmers across the region have doused their fields with chemicals to rid the land of weeds, often suffering from dangerous health effects related to herbicide exposure……….

 

For years, farmers in Na Samai subdistrict have heavily relied on the use of herbicides in their farming practices. In 2012, all farmers in the area were spraying their fields with chemical products...........

 

 

All across rural Thailand the use of chemical agricultural inputs has increased dramatically in the past decade. Thai farmers’ spending on imported pesticides increased by 71% between 2007 and 2013, according to a recent study by the Ministry of Public Health........

 

 

 

 

Thank you, this is the only truth, and anybody who has ever tried to grow anything here, even for own consumption, knows this. Only misters know all living in their dreams cannot know that.

 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, xylophone said:

I think the link below should settle a few points, because it does state that even rice farmers in Isaan use herbicides on their land, not to mention sugarcane (on a few other links). Once these chemicals get into the soil, then water and roots will take them up into the plants and the consumers will be affected.

 

This is what I have learned in summary with regards to herbicides and pesticides in Thailand: –

 

– Dangerous chemicals banned by scores of other countries are freely used here and there is no government body to stop it.

 

– These chemicals can be found on/in a greater percentage of food on sale at farmers markets, supermarkets and even those labelled "organic". Rice would be no exception because it is planted in soil which has been treated with herbicides and then flooded with water, making sure that these chemicals enter the plant.

 

– Several studies within Thailand have proven the above to be correct.

 

– Many farmers have suffered from debilitating illnesses and side effects from using these chemicals (see the link below).

 

– There is no way that a consumer here in Thailand can ascertain what is on and in his food, so ingesting chemicals is very common.

 

And just to add something else into the mix, research has shown that the high incidence of liver cancer in the north-east is down to the parasite/fluke gotten from eating raw fish.

 

In summary one would have to say that the consumer is being exposed to all sorts of unnecessary chemicals, many of which the body does not know how to handle, and which can be life threatening.

 

I don't know how this fits in with Russell17au's perception of things here, however I think it covers just about all the bases.........frightening as it is!

 

https://isaanrecord.com/2016/05/19/guest-contribution-planting-the-seeds-of-herbicide-free-farming-in-yasothon/

 

In recent years, the use of herbicides in the Northeast has soared. Farmers across the region have doused their fields with chemicals to rid the land of weeds, often suffering from dangerous health effects related to herbicide exposure……….

 

For years, farmers in Na Samai subdistrict have heavily relied on the use of herbicides in their farming practices. In 2012, all farmers in the area were spraying their fields with chemical products...........

 

 

All across rural Thailand the use of chemical agricultural inputs has increased dramatically in the past decade. Thai farmers’ spending on imported pesticides increased by 71% between 2007 and 2013, according to a recent study by the Ministry of Public Health........

 

 

It is worth mentioning, however, the the heavy consumption of rice whiskey by someone applying and working in an environment where pesticides are being used can contribute to an early death where all factors -- the whiskey, pesticides and consumption of raw fish dishes have all had a role.  

 

In my own background, farming/nursery/greenhouse business it seemed that those in our circle those who operated apple orchards and applied the heavy schedule of pesticides used to produce perfect apples themselves died young.  And at their funerals, we'd hear stories of how they used pesticides without the appropriate protective equipment, much to the distress of their family members.  Frankly, their actions were understandable, because the appropriate protective equipment, specifically the protective Tyvek suit with hood, rubber boots, gloves, goggles,  respirator, etc are expensive, hot and tiring to wear as my husband well knows, but this equipment saves lives. 

Their have been a lot of posts from overly paranoid people. Disease wise, in 10 years i have only had one bout of illness that MAY have stemmed from food i ate that required seeing a doctor, The rest of the time i usually just get very mild upsets which just require one toilet trip and it's over - never needed antibiotics or anything else. Most of my mild upsets i can attribute to gardening and probably not washing my hands thoroughly enough.

 

Pesticides. They are a concern, but very unlikely to be at levels high enough to kill you. Life expectancy in Thailand is pretty good, and improving. Most early deaths are due to road accidents and alcoholism. As said the raw fish in Isaan is the source of a lot of the liver cancer - do not eat raw fish and you shouldn't need to worry. The people who are at risk from pesticides are mainly the farmers themselves - the climate (meaning very light clothing) lack of safety equipment and lack of training are the issues. 

 

Here in Isaan many smaller farmers do not spray at all - it costs too much! Or use chemical fertilizers, which are relatively expensive. The other answer is of course, grow your own veg. Also many Thai agricultural products are exported to the west - which means they need to meet safe levels of pesticide. In Europe and the USA their are issues with pesticide use, so not going to Thailand doesn't mean you will be safe!

 

My F-i-L and M-i-L here are both in their late 70's and still going strong. 

 

Air pollution is only really a problem in the North and around Bangkok, Everywhere else probably better than London ....

On 08/03/2018 at 10:40 AM, WM1 said:

We are talking pesticides here.

Op seemed not to be talking about pesticides.

7 hours ago, rickudon said:

Their have been a lot of posts from overly paranoid people. Disease wise, in 10 years i have only had one bout of illness that MAY have stemmed from food i ate that required seeing a doctor, The rest of the time i usually just get very mild upsets which just require one toilet trip and it's over - never needed antibiotics or anything else. Most of my mild upsets i can attribute to gardening and probably not washing my hands thoroughly enough.

 

Pesticides. They are a concern, but very unlikely to be at levels high enough to kill you. Life expectancy in Thailand is pretty good, and improving. Most early deaths are due to road accidents and alcoholism. As said the raw fish in Isaan is the source of a lot of the liver cancer - do not eat raw fish and you shouldn't need to worry. The people who are at risk from pesticides are mainly the farmers themselves - the climate (meaning very light clothing) lack of safety equipment and lack of training are the issues. 

 

Here in Isaan many smaller farmers do not spray at all - it costs too much! Or use chemical fertilizers, which are relatively expensive. The other answer is of course, grow your own veg. Also many Thai agricultural products are exported to the west - which means they need to meet safe levels of pesticide. In Europe and the USA their are issues with pesticide use, so not going to Thailand doesn't mean you will be safe!

 

My F-i-L and M-i-L here are both in their late 70's and still going strong. 

 

Air pollution is only really a problem in the North and around Bangkok, Everywhere else probably better than London ....

 

Life must be nice at Disneyland ! It seems to be where you are living...

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Op seemed not to be talking about pesticides.

True, the issue of pesticides wasn't on my radar. I was more worried about the e-coli type of problem, or whatever it might be that got me sick the last time I visited Thailand.

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Op seemed not to be talking about pesticides.

Pesticides are involved in Food Safety.

8 hours ago, WM1 said:

Pesticides are involved in Food Safety.

Yes, but not the subject of the op. Why not start your own thread if that is what you want to discuss.

10 hours ago, jerry921 said:

True, the issue of pesticides wasn't on my radar. I was more worried about the e-coli type of problem, or whatever it might be that got me sick the last time I visited Thailand.

Can't see e-coli mentioned in your first post, but you do mention washing fruit and vegetables, so I suppose folks thought about harmful chemicals you could ingest?

 

By the way, the great percentage of what is known as "travellers diarrhoea" (and throwing up) comes from rice!! Usually rice which is cooked and then kept warm (or attempted to).

 

Having said that I got a really nasty bug which the hospital couldn't identify, from a pizza, in Koh Samui and was in hospital on an intravenous drip for 4 days..........man was I sick!

Well I don't know what bug I got, it was so intent on rushing out the nearest exit that it didn't leave its name.

 

My first full day in Thailand I ate lunch at an open-air restaraunt, had curry and coke from the can. I ate dinner at an upscale place where they served fresh celery to nibble on while waiting for the main course. The next day no breakfast, lunch back at the same open-air place, penang curry chicken, and I ate a spring of fresh basel they put on the top, coke from a can again. By dinnertime I was hurling. That's what I recall, it was 5 years ago now. One bit of knowledge I lack is if/when I eat something bad, how fast does it get to me. So I don't know exactly what to pin it on.

 

In Mexico, I ate lunch at McDonalds (big mac), dinner at an upscale place (well cooked food and had a virgin pina colada), then wandered around in the park and had churros from a street vendor. Didn't even finish those before I started feeling nauseous, got back to hotel, a few hours later was puking my guts out. I've been back to that same restaurant and the same McDonalds numerous times in the year since, never a repeat. No more pina coladas (maybe it was the ground ice?) and haven't trusted any street vendors since. Though churros don't seem to have anything in them that could be dangerous. Maybe the water in the batter?

 

Anyhow, I think we can all agree, the past is over. So what I care about is what kinds of things I should avoid in the future. While it's interesting to hear stories about pesticides, that's more of a catch-you-later kind of thing than what I was worried about.

Edited March 11, 20188 yr by jerry921

26 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

My first full day in Thailand I ate lunch at an open-air restaraunt, had curry and coke from the can. I ate dinner at an upscale place where they served fresh celery to nibble on while waiting for the main course. The next day no breakfast, lunch back at the same open-air place, penang curry chicken, and I ate a spring of fresh basel they put on the top, coke from a can again.

So rice could have been a component of those meals?? Sorry the bug didn't leave its name!!!

 

AS a rider, veges/fruit grown in contaminated water can make you very sick, as the occupants of a desert camp in Libya found out after growing veges in a "garden" fed by sewage waste!

 

Also some doctors recommend doxycycline (antibiotic) be carried when travelling to third world type counties, as it is effective against many bacteria and protozoans, though not always for e-coli, which can be very serious! 

Of course there was rice with the curry in Thailand, but I don't think I had rice with the meal in Mexico, certainly not white rice, maybe a side of "spanish" rice, with spices and stuff. I think that's made by frying just-cooked rice, don't know if that kills the bacteria or not.