Gunman in deadly California siege was decorated veteran treated for PTSD

[rooster59]

Gunman in deadly California siege was decorated veteran treated for PTSD

By Scott Bransford

 

YOUNTVILLE, Calif. (Reuters) - Details emerged on Saturday about a decorated former U.S. serviceman who took three women hostage at a California veterans home where he had undergone treatment for PTSD, in a standoff that ended when police found him and his captives dead.

 

The Veterans Home of California in Yountville, the largest such facility in the United States, was the scene on Friday of the latest mass shooting to rock a country still shocked by the slaughter last month of 17 people at a Florida high school.

 

Officials named the gunman as Albert Wong, 36, of Sacramento, and said he had served with the U.S. Army on active duty from May 2010 to August 2013 and spent a year in Afghanistan. He received four medals including an Afghanistan campaign medal and was awarded an Expert Marksmanship Badge with Rifle, the Pentagon said.

 

Wong had been a patient of Pathway Home, a programme at the Yountville complex for former service members suffering post-traumatic stress disorder after deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. The San Francisco Chronicle, citing unnamed sources, said he had been asked to leave the programme two weeks ago.

 

Yountville Mayor John Dunbar, who also serves as a board member of the Pathway Home, said the facility and the town mourned the loss of the three women.

 

"We also lost one of our heroes, who clearly had demons that resulted in the terrible tragedy that we all experienced here," he told reporters.

 

The incident began at about 10:30 a.m. PST on Friday at the sprawling facility about 60 miles (100 km) north of San Francisco and ended almost eight hours later.

 

According to Larry Kamer, the husband of one of the Pathway Home administrators, Devereaux Smith, Wong walked into the programme's building carrying a rifle during a going-away party for one of the employees.

 

Kamer, who volunteers at the home, said his wife told him by phone during the siege that the gunman had let her and three other women leave the room where the party was taking place, but that he kept three female employees behind as hostages.

 

The hostages who died were named as Pathway Home Executive Director Christine Loeber, 48; the programme's clinical director, therapist Jen Golick, 42; and Jennifer Gonzales, 29, a psychologist with the San Francisco Department of Veterans Affairs Healthcare System.

 

"Each of them brought energy, vitality, personality to their jobs, and that's so critical when we're talking about supporting our veterans who have post-traumatic stress or traumatic brain injury in particular," Dunbar said.

 

Despite repeated efforts by police negotiators, authorities said they had failed to make contact with the gunman after he exchanged fire with a sheriff's deputy at the start of the standoff.

 

Officers who eventually entered the room where the hostages were being held found all four bodies there, police said. No details were immediately given about how they died.

 

President Donald Trump said on Twitter, "We are deeply saddened by the tragic situation in Yountville and mourn the loss of three incredible women who cared for our Veterans."

 

James Musson, a 75-year-old Army veteran and resident of the facility, told Reuters many who lived there voiced concerns about lax security, saying visitors could walk in and out without restriction and that public safety officers were not armed.

 

Dunbar said the deaths were the first "serious incident" at the home since it began to treat veterans more than 10 years ago. He was scheduled to meet officials from the California Department of Veterans Affairs to discuss how to move ahead.

 

The siege came less than a month after a former student killed 17 people at a high school in Parkland, Florida, using an assault-style rifle. That massacre sparked a student-led drive for new restrictions on gun sales to curb mass shootings.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-11

[Thakkar]

Well I guess we have no choice but to install some bullet proof glass, add some reinforced doors, post a couple of cops at all of the veteran's homes and arm all the doctors and nurses.

I mean what other solution could there possibly be, right?

[FreddieRoyle]

18 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

<sarcastic guff snipped>

I mean what other solution could there possibly be, right?

stop invading sovereign nations on the other side of the world?

 

no wars = no vets with PTSD 

[Thakkar]

6 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

stop invading sovereign nations on the other side of the world?

 

no wars = no vets with PTSD 

 

Too late for that. There already are vets with PTSD. Also, domestic mass shootings are creating students, teachers, mall goers, hospital staff, etc with PTSD.

[Scott]

Troll post and reply removed. 

 

[chrisinth]

I hope when they do their investigation that they carefully check the medication this man was given for PTSD.

 

Was he addicted to this?

[boomerangutang]

5 hours ago, Thakkar said:

Well I guess we have no choice but to install some bullet proof glass, add some reinforced doors, post a couple of cops at all of the veteran's homes and arm all the doctors and nurses. I mean what other solution could there possibly be, right?

That would be Trump's and NRA's solution.  Make every place in the US like a mini-fortress.  It would sell a lot more guns, so that would make gun & ammo sellers happy.

It would also create a lot of biz for security guards, and suppliers of bulletproof glass, attack-trained dogs, vault-like windows/doors, locks, security cameras, ....etc

 

A simpler solution would be to ban military-style weapons and ammo, but that's too sensible, and is the way that nearly all other countries ww lessen gun killings - as compared to the USA.  

[maximillian]

5 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

stop invading sovereign nations on the other side of the world?

 

no wars = no vets with PTSD 

 

 

Freddie, you took the words from my keybord.

But remember: No wars, no oil, no gas, no profit for the 1%

 

Selling arms and ammunition is a multi billion, even a multi trillion $ business. Taxpayers money. So no more $ for health care and other social spendings. Decadent minds, decadent world.

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by maximillian

[buick]

it seems kind of odd that a mentally ill patient would be told to leave the program.  wouldn't it be more appropriate to transfer them to another facility or somehow manage to deal with him/her w/o having to send them elsewhere.  treating the mentally ill has been a problem in america for a long, long time.  alot of them are just left to live on the streets.

[samran]

No war everyone, let’s give peace a chance.

 

Except domestically of course, where we arm everyone to the teeth, including the crazies. 

[Thakkar]

2 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

That would be Trump's and NRA's solution.  Make every place in the US like a mini-fortress.  It would sell a lot more guns, so that would make gun & ammo sellers happy.

It would also create a lot of biz for security guards, and suppliers of bulletproof glass, attack-trained dogs, vault-like windows/doors, locks, security cameras, ....etc

 

A simpler solution would be to ban military-style weapons and ammo, but that's too sensible, and is the way that nearly all other countries ww lessen gun killings - as compared to the USA.  

 

According to 2nd Amendment ammosexuals, a simpler solution would be  to

1. Assume all mass shootings are committed by war veterans who are ptsd sufferers.

2. Extricate America from ALL future wars.

3. Wait for all existing ptsd sufferers to commit their share of mass shootings till they all die out or are cured.

4. Problem solved!

[Credo]

People suffering from PTSD seem to be a higher risk of gun violence than the general population, at least those that have served in the military.    PTSD is not easy to treat and many can function reasonably well in an open setting.   

 

It might be a good idea to make sure that those with PTSD are considered to be mentally unfit enough to prevent them from having a weapon.   It won't help with the PTSD, but it might lessen the body count in these situations.

 

[gk10002000]

Further details.  " Yountville officials confirm that the three female hostages that died in the standoff are Executive Director Christine Loeber, a therapist Dr. Jen Golick, and Dr. Jennifer Gonzales, a psychologist with the San Francisco Department of Veterans Affairs Healthcare System. "  These people apparently were in charge of his case and made the decision about kicking the shooter out of the system.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

Further details.  " Yountville officials confirm that the three female hostages that died in the standoff are Executive Director Christine Loeber, a therapist Dr. Jen Golick, and Dr. Jennifer Gonzales, a psychologist with the San Francisco Department of Veterans Affairs Healthcare System. "  These people apparently were in charge of his case and made the decision about kicking the shooter out of the system.

It's important to remember that most government "systems" exist for the perpetuating of the organization or "system". Not for the benefit of those who must interact with it.

[gk10002000]

6 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

It's important to remember that most government "systems" exist for the perpetuating of the organization or "system". Not for the benefit of those who must interact with it.

Sadly, I agree with you and that is common.  Kind of like many organizations, religions, groups etc.  True altruism is hard to find.

[lannarebirth]

23 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Sadly, I agree with you and that is common.  Kind of like many organizations, religions, groups etc.  True altruism is hard to find.

What I don't understand is, the requirements for getting in this PTSD program are that you must be male and suffered the PTSD from active military service. It seems everyone this guy interacted with was female who wouldn't have any judgement borne of experience with which to help this guy. All they will have had is "policy" which is often stress inducing in and of itself.

[gk10002000]

14 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

What I don't understand is, the requirements for getting in this PTSD program are that you must be male and suffered the PTSD from active military service. It seems everyone this guy interacted with was female who wouldn't have any judgement borne of experience with which to help this guy. All they will have had is "policy" which is often stress inducing in and of itself.

I agree.  I doubt they ever served in the military, have any idea of what it is like to have to follow orders, live away from home, actually be threatened etc.  They are part of a machine, and have "credentials".  I am a veteran but I had a cake job being an officer in the USAF during the 80s and I flew a desk.  And except for some odd and long TDYs to some remote places, I was never shot at.  But I sure saw a lot of "Hitler" complexes and got a lot of orders that sucked but I didn't have much choice about, suffered some job and career abuse, etc.  Far from being in combat, and I had outs as I was a bit older, had my degrees, a home to kind of return to etc.  If people are messed up going in, they usually come out a bit worse

[Credo]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

I agree.  I doubt they ever served in the military, have any idea of what it is like to have to follow orders, live away from home, actually be threatened etc.  They are part of a machine, and have "credentials".  I am a veteran but I had a cake job being an officer in the USAF during the 80s and I flew a desk.  And except for some odd and long TDYs to some remote places, I was never shot at.  But I sure saw a lot of "Hitler" complexes and got a lot of orders that sucked but I didn't have much choice about, suffered some job and career abuse, etc.  Far from being in combat, and I had outs as I was a bit older, had my degrees, a home to kind of return to etc.  If people are messed up going in, they usually come out a bit worse

The people treating PTSD are trained professionals who do know a lot about the disorder and how to treat it.   I have a surgeon who has never had surgery performed and a dentist who who has no cavities.   I also know an undertaker who is still alive and a judge who has never been to jail.

 

Treatment usually involves group work, which is with other people suffering from the disorder, which gives them the support of people who have experienced a trauma leading to the same disorder.    

 

This was a person who was apparently not responding to treatment, either individually or through group interaction.   Removing someone from a program like this is usually done because the person is not only not responding to treatment, but is undermining the group.    Sort of the same thing as when alcohol treatment centers don't allow someone who is drunk to participate.

 

PTSD is complicated and not only is a condition in and of itself, it may be a part of underlying deeper psychological problems.   People can have more than one diagnosable condition. 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Credo

[Credo]

A good example of the reason that many people with PTSD should be kept away from weapons is the killing of Chris Kyle, the real life sniper on which the movie was based.   He took a guy with PTSD to a shooting range and the guy shot him.   

 

Depression and anxiety are closely associated with PTSD, as is alcohol/drug abuse (self medication).   Those suffering from the disorder as a result of battle, are 6 times more likely to be involved in antisocial and aggressive behavior.   

 

The fact that these people tend to relive a traumatic event, and over-react to stress is a good reason to keep a weapon away.   

Edited March 11, 2018 by Credo

[EVENKEEL]

18 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

That would be Trump's and NRA's solution.  Make every place in the US like a mini-fortress.  It would sell a lot more guns, so that would make gun & ammo sellers happy.

It would also create a lot of biz for security guards, and suppliers of bulletproof glass, attack-trained dogs, vault-like windows/doors, locks, security cameras, ....etc

 

A simpler solution would be to ban military-style weapons and ammo, but that's too sensible, and is the way that nearly all other countries ww lessen gun killings - as compared to the USA.  

What kind of weapon was used? I didn't see it mentioned.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.