Humans first - soi dogs second! Thais now advocating "the final solution"

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, AboutThaim said:

Seems you still haven't been able to grasp the concept that it would be more impossible to starve the dog population into oblivion than it would be to cull them.  Do you think starving dogs won't attack small kids or each other?  Any animal/bird would be a meal, lizards, ducks, chooks, etc.  Even larger animals like calves, goats.  Come up with a plausible idea.  I see you have changed "culls don't work" to "no cull in Asia has worked".  Has there ever been an attempt?

"Seems you still haven't been able to grasp the concept that it would be more impossible to starve the dog population into oblivion than it would be to cull them" - no you don't understand how reducing the food supply works and that reducing a population in this way is not "starving" them at all, dos won't breed if there isn't sufficient food/water/shelter, so natural wastage takes care of that.

You also don't understand dogs behaviour - they are essentially scavengers.

as for the culls don't work, I'm reporting for Asia....this doesn't mean they work or have worked elsewhere - (can you cite an example??).

i have already pointed out that in small population and islands culls  - n can have an effect as the dead aren't replaced.

i seem unable to distinguish between what you consider to be the messenger and the message - rthis is not what "I" say, it is what has been proven worldwide to be the effective way of population control.

you and others also seem to be under the misapprehension that the problem can be solved swiftly in a single blow - even the most optimistic forecasts are 5 to 10 years. As I said before, the Netherlands took 200 years .

Absolutely no-one has suggested HOW the dogs could be culled either which kind of underlines the depth of thought that has gone into it.

Please, how would you carry out a cull?? - or rather you seem to be suggesting a complete extermination.

actually what would you aims be precisely?

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Those injured and infected during those several years disagree with "ONLY".

prehaps they would suggest an alternative - and detail how to acheive it?

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

"However is the population of strays is sustainably reduced then things like rabies are far easier to control. This is far easier on an island and in a society that has relatively organised garbage disposal."

 

Well I'll be blowed, disregarding the island part of your comment, who could have anyone guessed that a reduced stray dog population and organised garbage disposal could help reduce the problem -- and just to complete the trifecta - you should have added, stop feeding the soi dogs.  

 

Maybe this is the reason that many (uninformed - in your opinion) posters have been promoting a major and on-going cull campaign.

 

Which as has been explained doesn't work. please explain how you would operate this cull.

[Airbagwill]

Dogs in Thailand - 2.ppsx

[Artisi]

20 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

-Dogs in Thailand - 2.ppsx

 

put out more  bones and this will quickly reduce the population, reasonably cheap to operate backed with a well trained source of government employees - called military - stationed all over the country.  

[Airbagwill]

27 minutes ago, Artisi said:

 

put out more  bones and this will quickly reduce the population, reasonably cheap to operate backed with a well trained source of government employees - called military - stationed all over the country.  

Let's be clear, you are suggesting shooting the dogs?

[Artisi]

2 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Let's be clear, you are suggesting shooting the dogs?

No, bludgeon them to death with the rifle butt, it's more akin to starvation.

[AboutThaim]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

"Seems you still haven't been able to grasp the concept that it would be more impossible to starve the dog population into oblivion than it would be to cull them" - no you don't understand how reducing the food supply works and that reducing a population in this way is not "starving" them at all, dos won't breed if there isn't sufficient food/water/shelter, so natural wastage takes care of that.

You also don't understand dogs behaviour - they are essentially scavengers.

as for the culls don't work, I'm reporting for Asia....this doesn't mean they work or have worked elsewhere - (can you cite an example??).

i have already pointed out that in small population and islands culls  - n can have an effect as the dead aren't replaced.

i seem unable to distinguish between what you consider to be the messenger and the message - rthis is not what "I" say, it is what has been proven worldwide to be the effective way of population control.

you and others also seem to be under the misapprehension that the problem can be solved swiftly in a single blow - even the most optimistic forecasts are 5 to 10 years. As I said before, the Netherlands took 200 years .

Absolutely no-one has suggested HOW the dogs could be culled either which kind of underlines the depth of thought that has gone into it.

Please, how would you carry out a cull?? - or rather you seem to be suggesting a complete extermination.

actually what would you aims be precisely?

Seems you can't be bothered reading some posts.  In a previous post I suggested if it will take 200 years they better get started.  I also said shooting will not work.  One shot and most will run away.  I did suggest tranquilized guns (I believe they are fairly quiet).  I also suggested a fast acting sedative in the food provided.  Obviously followed by euthanasia.  I think in major Western cities they have a CO2 method of putting them to sleep.  If the top dog is replaced from outside the pack same treatment.  And obviously the cull must be ongoing until the desired number of dogs is reached.  If that means all strays then so be it.  If it takes 200 years at least they will be working on it.  

 

A cull that worked?  The UK govt culled the national herd to get rid of mad cow disease I believe.  If it didn't work please let them have the benefit of your bountiful knowledge.

 

How is that?  Will you bother to read this or just adjust your blinkers?

[Artisi]

17 minutes ago, AboutThaim said:

Seems you can't be bothered reading some posts.  In a previous post I suggested if it will take 200 years they better get started.  I also said shooting will not work.  One shot and most will run away.  I did suggest tranquilized guns (I believe they are fairly quiet).  I also suggested a fast acting sedative in the food provided.  Obviously followed by euthanasia.  I think in major Western cities they have a CO2 method of putting them to sleep.  If the top dog is replaced from outside the pack same treatment.  And obviously the cull must be ongoing until the desired number of dogs is reached.  If that means all strays then so be it.  If it takes 200 years at least they will be working on it.  

 

A cull that worked?  The UK govt culled the national herd to get rid of mad cow disease I believe.  If it didn't work please let them have the benefit of your bountiful knowledge.

 

How is that?  Will you bother to read this or just adjust your blinkers?

Just a quickie for you to get on with, high quality rifle, 4 power scope, silenced and firing .22 short rim-fired cartridge, the pack wouldn't be aware of what's going on - probably less noise than a gas fired tranqualising gun and usable at a greater distance fro  the intended target.

[Airbagwill]

32 minutes ago, AboutThaim said:

Seems you can't be bothered reading some posts.  In a previous post I suggested if it will take 200 years they better get started.  I also said shooting will not work.  One shot and most will run away.  I did suggest tranquilized guns (I believe they are fairly quiet).  I also suggested a fast acting sedative in the food provided.  Obviously followed by euthanasia.  I think in major Western cities they have a CO2 method of putting them to sleep.  If the top dog is replaced from outside the pack same treatment.  And obviously the cull must be ongoing until the desired number of dogs is reached.  If that means all strays then so be it.  If it takes 200 years at least they will be working on it.  

 

A cull that worked?  The UK govt culled the national herd to get rid of mad cow disease I believe.  If it didn't work please let them have the benefit of your bountiful knowledge.

 

How is that?  Will you bother to read this or just adjust your blinkers?

To kill dogs you capture them. in the west they are held for a few days and then put down. As I've pointed out the numbers of dogs in the west pale into insignificance compared to Thailand.

 

the fact that you compare the culling of cattle and dogs shows how little you must have thought the problem through.

 

as for "fast acting sedative" - which one will you use that does affect all other wildlife - you realise the dose for a dog will be way dangerous for smaller animals

[farmerjo]

There would have to be excavation pits dug in every Amphur,management of them would be a little complex but a bounty would speed up the process.

I'm sick of people dumping unwanted dogs and cats in a vicinty close to and on our land.

[Moonmoon]

even if the government culls, the problem will not go away.

 

Too many unlicensed and unregulated pet dogs sellers, best eg. chatuchak market. so many sick puppies on display on sale from dog farm mills.

This problem has overflowed to online facebook selling as well.

 

Not enough education on spaying or neutering. So many of my Thai friends after getting a pup when it grows up decides they have to get it another partner to mate. 

After the female dog has pups, they sell it or give it away to new owners and new homes. H How many of these pups when they grow up end up on the streets? 

 

My friend used to spay and neuter the strays around her house. till now she has no kids. Her mother in law blames it as karma on her for spaying and neutering dogs.

 

The final solution is not a solution at all. Regulate and give out license to sale of dogs from only good recognised breeders in Thailand, making it harder to people to get a pet here.

 

Make sure every dog is neutered and spay when or after they go to their homes. 

 

 

[Artisi]

22 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

To kill dogs you capture them. in the west they are held for a few days and then put down. As I've pointed out the numbers of dogs in the west pale into insignificance compared to Thailand.

 

the fact that you compare the culling of cattle and dogs shows how little you must have thought the problem through.

 

as for "fast acting sedative" - which one will you use that does affect all other wildlife - you realise the dose for a dog will be way dangerous for smaller animals

if darting stray dogs, what has other wildlife and smaller animals got to do with it? 

[owl sees all]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually, both dogs and humans are similar, because both species behave like animals, which both are.

Ah! But are we? True we are both creatures and of course complex organisms, but we separated from the dogs millions of years ago.

 

Speaking about someone or describing someone in animal terms could be a nice compliment; as in "She's an animal in bed" or "animalistic behaviour at the dinner table." On the other hand saying to someone "you are a dog" could be termed derogatory. 

 

It is possible that the mangy dog in the nearest soi has elements that were once in our ancestor's body. When we 'go' we return to the universe; in our particular place it's Planet Earth. Might help a mushroom grow or be part of a complex organism; like a dog. Who knows?!

[Colabamumbai]

Surprised the govt. does not arrest the soi dogs under article 44, a gathering of more than 5.

[oldlakey]

12 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

You miss a VERY important point. The UK is an island.

There is alsothe minor point you mention that despite this their have been breaches....

However is the population of strays is sustainably reduced then things like rabies are far easier to control. This is far easier on an island and in a society that has relatively organised garbage disposal.

I was just stating historical facts as to the situation in the UK as regards rabies

The breaches were caused by importing the rabid animals by humans they did not find their way into the UK on their own 555555555

Soldiers returning from France with rabid animals after the WW1 were the biggest breach

What you fail to realise or understand is the fact that the rabid animals were culled out of existence nothing to do with the UK being a island

Everything to do with being of sound mind and taking action to protect the population

I have already shown and proven to you the cull which took place in Northern Peninsular Malaysia at the end of 2015 involving thousands of dogs was a unmitigated success

You refused to except the fact that it was even a cull so I simply gave up, I can see no point in banging my head against a brick wall

The dogs need culling in a humane way, I fail to see what is humane in your insistence on wanting to starve them to death

 

[Henrik Andersen]

Cull

injection to sleep bla. bla. 

In my words 

Just kill the soi dog's nobody want them that why they are soi dogs 

[oldlakey]

4 minutes ago, Henrik Andersen said:

Cull

injection to sleep bla. bla. 

In my words 

Just kill the soi dog's nobody want them that why they are soi dogs 

A very valid point 

[Artisi]

52 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

I was just stating historical facts as to the situation in the UK as regards rabies

The breaches were caused by importing the rabid animals by humans they did not find their way into the UK on their own 555555555

Soldiers returning from France with rabid animals after the WW1 were the biggest breach

What you fail to realise or understand is the fact that the rabid animals were culled out of existence nothing to do with the UK being a island

Everything to do with being of sound mind and taking action to protect the population

I have already shown and proven to you the cull which took place in Northern Peninsular Malaysia at the end of 2015 involving thousands of dogs was a unmitigated success

You refused to except the fact that it was even a cull so I simply gave up, I can see no point in banging my head against a brick wall

The dogs need culling in a humane way, I fail to see what is humane in your insistence on wanting to starve them to death

 

Doesn't work bla bla bla bla bla ?

[oldlakey]

1 minute ago, Artisi said:

Doesn't work bla bla bla bla bla ?

Yes but I wish I had a Jack Russell that was so single minded

[Artisi]

12 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Yes but I wish I had a Jack Russell that was so single minded

Wouldn't it be a little on the boring side, unless of course it was culling the local rat population.

[Basil B]

On 15/03/2018 at 2:07 AM, djayz said:

Although I love animals, particularly dogs, I think a cull is long over due. There are simply too many of the muts roaming the streets barking and scaring people.

Totally agree...

 

If anyone Thai or long term visitor wants to save a dog or cat they will have to take the dog/cat to a vet get it health checked, micro chipped and preferably neutered, then they will be responsible for that animal for the rest of it's natural life.

 

Then bring on the cull, any cat or dog not chipped, one way ticket to a North Korean restaurant...  

[Keesters]

23 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

It seems many don't understand that there is no simple black and white simple and sudden solution however, the solution is there and it's known, like many things in Thailand the authorities are reluctant to take on the task.

The solution involves expenditure and will take several years but it is the ONLY way to go.

no cull has ever worked in Asia.

Culling all the dogs along my street and any that arrive after would save the numerous road accidents, unwanted poop, scared children, etc. If it works there it works anywhere. It has to be a continual process. Be part of the solution not the problem. Your agenda to keep the status quo is becoming, to put it mildly, rather tiring.

 

[Keesters]

13 hours ago, Moonmoon said:

even if the government culls, the problem will not go away.

 

Too many unlicensed and unregulated pet dogs sellers, best eg. chatuchak market. so many sick puppies on display on sale from dog farm mills.

This problem has overflowed to online facebook selling as well.

 

Not enough education on spaying or neutering. So many of my Thai friends after getting a pup when it grows up decides they have to get it another partner to mate. 

After the female dog has pups, they sell it or give it away to new owners and new homes. H How many of these pups when they grow up end up on the streets? 

 

My friend used to spay and neuter the strays around her house. till now she has no kids. Her mother in law blames it as karma on her for spaying and neutering dogs.

 

The final solution is not a solution at all. Regulate and give out license to sale of dogs from only good recognised breeders in Thailand, making it harder to people to get a pet here.

 

Make sure every dog is neutered and spay when or after they go to their homes. 

 

 

what's the difference between a puppy mill and a breeder? Licensing, inspection and control none of which Thailand has.

 

When I bought a dog from a market and it got sick shortly after the vet said I should only buy from a breeder. When I asked where are the breeders, he shrugged his shoulders giving no answer. He couldn't even tell me if he had clients who would be expecting puppies soon. All this from a very large veterinary clinic that has many branches. They don't care about the dogs they only care about the $$$$.

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Keesters said:

Culling all the dogs along my street and any that arrive after would save the numerous road accidents, unwanted poop, scared children, etc. If it works there it works anywhere. It has to be a continual process. Be part of the solution not the problem. Your agenda to keep the status quo is becoming, to put it mildly, rather tiring.

 

Lets get one thing straight culling doesn't work, never will and "set Zero" as some of the Thai media are referring to it as is NEVER gonna happen.

 

it you cull in your street (BTW - how did you do this?) you will eventually see dogs returning .....of course they could be carrying disease as well and will fight with any other dogs - owned or not - on the streets.

 

of course you could keep killing dogs ad infinitum, but it would be a lot easier just to stop feeding them and you'll find they soon melt away.

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Keesters said:

what's the difference between a puppy mill and a breeder? Licensing, inspection and control none of which Thailand has.

 

When I bought a dog from a market and it got sick shortly after the vet said I should only buy from a breeder. When I asked where are the breeders, he shrugged his shoulders giving no answer. He couldn't even tell me if he had clients who would be expecting puppies soon. All this from a very large veterinary clinic that has many branches. They don't care about the dogs they only care about the $$$$.

You should note that 40% of all Rabies infections come from owned "pet" dogs. ... not free roaming animals. Of course you have had yours vaccinated?

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Keesters said:

Culling all the dogs along my street and any that arrive after would save the numerous road accidents, unwanted poop, scared children, etc. If it works there it works anywhere. It has to be a continual process. Be part of the solution not the problem. Your agenda to keep the status quo is becoming, to put it mildly, rather tiring.

 

I think it has been explained quite adequately why that doesn't work - you just create a flow of dogs from out side - remember there are about 5 million to replace the ones you killed.

What is your method for killing all these dogs that arrive on a conveyor belt  system?

[Airbagwill]

13 hours ago, Artisi said:

Doesn't work bla bla bla bla bla ?

Malaysia is now not rabies free and the most recent case in Feb was on the peninsular - the cull was a total failure and the dog population is retuning and rabies has spread from Borneo to the mainland.

relatively speaking Malaysia has a much smaller free roaming dog population and of course areas like Borneo are thickly forested, so any cull will fail as animals can flee or enter from the wilderness.

To "eliminate" rabies in any mainland country, you would also have to kill all the wild mammals as well.

 

[Airbagwill]

15 hours ago, Artisi said:

if darting stray dogs, what has other wildlife and smaller animals got to do with it? 

so darting now? - and you think thewt the darts - tranqs ir lethal? are 100% effective and accurate - basically you will then have to collect all the dogs - dead or alive.

what do you do with the carcasses and what do you do with the ones you've captured alive?

we're talking about 5 million dogs.

[Airbagwill]

On 3/27/2018 at 10:51 AM, Artisi said:

"However is the population of strays is sustainably reduced then things like rabies are far easier to control. This is far easier on an island and in a society that has relatively organised garbage disposal."

 

Well I'll be blowed, disregarding the island part of your comment, who could have anyone guessed that a reduced stray dog population and organised garbage disposal could help reduce the problem -- and just to complete the trifecta - you should have added, stop feeding the soi dogs.  

 

Maybe this is the reason that many (uninformed - in your opinion) posters have been promoting a major and on-going cull campaign.

 

You clearly haven't read my posts - I've been advocating the food thing for years.

 

No - you can't disregard things at your own convenient - islands are a particularly important factor in population control.