Online Teaching

[phetpeter]

I think that if you are knownly teaching online to Thai students while based in Thailand you could fall foul of something, But, only if you are trying to get a visa to stay in Thailand, There are several,visas.. B visa for work, O married which entitles you to work, and business visa, all would be requiring certain-restrictions etc to to be permitted for visa. and work permit. The easier one is the married Visa, but funds may be required and the correct legal paperwork. Now if you are teaching on line for a company registered in another country and teaching students not in Thailand, plus payment is made in another country and those funds are then transferred to your account yourself in Thailand, You should declare income on your tax return here,  and then you will stay illegal,  I earn extra 150 to 300,000 per year online teaching, and by the time I declare for wife, child, grandparents and self 2000 baht tax ...not a problem.

[Johnniey]

27 minutes ago, phetpeter said:

I think that if you are knownly teaching online to Thai students while based in Thailand you could fall foul of something, But, only if you are trying to get a visa to stay in Thailand, There are several,visas.. B visa for work, O married which entitles you to work, and business visa, all would be requiring certain-restrictions etc to to be permitted for visa. and work permit. The easier one is the married Visa, but funds may be required and the correct legal paperwork. Now if you are teaching on line for a company registered in another country and teaching students not in Thailand, plus payment is made in another country and those funds are then transferred to your account yourself in Thailand, You should declare income on your tax return here,  and then you will stay illegal,  I earn extra 150 to 300,000 per year online teaching, and by the time I declare for wife, child, grandparents and self 2000 baht tax ...not a problem.

Shouldn't be that much. My allowances come to more than 300,000.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Johnniey said:

I mean the boss in the provincial ministry of labour, not the Minister of Labour :)

 

Yes, I'm friendly with the head policeman of 7 provinces in northern Isarn. I have taught his staff in the CSD, and his daughter. I think his title is actually assistant commissioner in English.

 

It's very important to make friends in high places if you live in Thailand for a long time. Join the local clubs, tennis, rotary etc.

 

Sorry about your low self-esteem. I know how it feels to not even get on the Thai hierarchical ladder, as an English teacher, believe me - I was there for many years.

Newbies like you often think that we are stuck at some lowly level. It is just not true, we can rise! 

 

The link you showed, the betting was made in Thailand.

 

 

It is easy to get a siege mentality in Thailand- it all starts with the basic visa situation regarding teaching, and soon it seems everything is frowned upon.  

 

You are quite right about the example of the gambling syndicate- not only was it illegal, but it was clearly being run from Thailand and not Korea.  

[dfdgfdfdgs]

On 3/20/2018 at 9:56 PM, Scott said:

So, is it illegal if you don't have a work permit?   Yes.  

Nobody is claiming it isn't illegal, but it is of no consequence if it is illegal or not if there is no enforcement of the law.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, phetpeter said:

I think that if you are knownly teaching online to Thai students while based in Thailand you could fall foul of something, But, only if you are trying to get a visa to stay in Thailand, There are several,visas.. B visa for work, O married which entitles you to work, and business visa, all would be requiring certain-restrictions etc to to be permitted for visa. and work permit. The easier one is the married Visa, but funds may be required and the correct legal paperwork. Now if you are teaching on line for a company registered in another country and teaching students not in Thailand, plus payment is made in another country and those funds are then transferred to your account yourself in Thailand, You should declare income on your tax return here,  and then you will stay illegal,  I earn extra 150 to 300,000 per year online teaching, and by the time I declare for wife, child, grandparents and self 2000 baht tax ...not a problem.

I think revenue earned outside Thailand is not under the Thai jurisdiction. If any tax is due it would be in the originating country. It would be almost impossible to prove anyway,

 

The letter of the law is only the half of it- there is context, and interpretation.  Thus, teaching in an office surrounded by computers might be illegal, whereas sitting in your studio flat might not be, if only because of privacy.  It's about not being seen to be breaking the law really.

Edited March 22, 2018 by mommysboy

[ThaiWai]

Like with most things there is a scale but illegal is illegal.  If I was an I/O I could bag people all day I see blatantly posting on public FB groups about jobs they want or services offered.  From chefs to translators, photographers, tour guides, charter captains, nannies, home cleaners, tattoo artists to guy running a second had shop from home buying up all the second hand stuff than marking it up for resale, I see it all.  Let's face it, you can't claim you are on the internet making money and not think a government will want a piece of the action.  Digital nomads loopholing the system and worse yet, thinking it's legal, ain't gonna last for ever.

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, ThaiWai said:

Like with most things there is a scale but illegal is illegal.  If I was an I/O I could bag people all day I see blatantly posting on public FB groups about jobs they want or services offered.  From chefs to translators, photographers, tour guides, charter captains, nannies, home cleaners, tattoo artists to guy running a second had shop from home buying up all the second hand stuff than marking it up for resale, I see it all.  Let's face it, you can't claim you are on the internet making money and not think a government will want a piece of the action.  Digital nomads loopholing the system and worse yet, thinking it's legal, ain't gonna last for ever.

 

It's not illegal!

[jenny2017]

2 hours ago, Johnniey said:

I mean the boss in the provincial ministry of labour, not the Minister of Labour :)

 

Yes, I'm friendly with the head policeman of 7 provinces in northern Isarn. I have taught his staff in the CSD, and his daughter. I think his title is actually assistant commissioner in English.

 

It's very important to make friends in high places if you live in Thailand for a long time. Join the local clubs, tennis, rotary etc.

 

Sorry about your low self-esteem. I know how it feels to not even get on the Thai hierarchical ladder, as an English teacher, believe me - I was there for many years.

Newbies like you often think that we are stuck at some lowly level. It is just not true, we can rise! 

 

The link you showed, the betting was made in Thailand.

 

 

You gotta be kidding calling Loaded a newbie. 

[smotherb]

On 3/21/2018 at 12:51 PM, Loaded said:

The two threads your cite are from 2014 when internet teaching didn't exist.

 

Digital Nomads were/are usually foreigners using a blog to make a little extra cash from clicks from Google Adwords linked to their websites.

 

Teaching is a profession and is controlled by a whole swathe of rules and regulations.

 

There's a difference.

Oh please, I developed online graduate courses at Thunderbird School of Global Management in 1994.

[diddygq]

On 3/19/2018 at 8:08 AM, Loaded said:

Most online teaching in Thailand is illegal.

 

The teacher works in Thailand without the required non-immigrant visa and work permit. The teacher doesn't declare their income to the Thai tax authorities.

 

The Chinese company earns income from their overseas operations in Thailand. They fail to provide the required visas and work permit for their staff. They avoid Thai tax on their revenues. They don't have a Thai school license. I could go on.

 

It won't continue for much longer once the Thai government realizes what's happening under their noses.

 

 

It's not illegal at all. The immigration just held a seminar in Chiang Mai for all the digital nomads there. If you are not working for a Thai company and you aren't overstaying your visa it is completely legal. 

[quandow]

On 3/19/2018 at 8:08 AM, Loaded said:

Most online teaching in Thailand is illegal.

 

 

Most of THAILAND is illegal.

[Parsve]

4. A foreigner sits in his apartment in Chiang Mai and teaches Chinese students online via Skype.

The verdict: " Officially, work, however it is not a main concern to our office now, so we allow the foreigner to do this without a work permit. "

This verdict considers the scale of the work and the environment.

 

hat is said below is for Chiang Mai. It could be difference in other parts of Thailand. The answer is from an interview March 1 2018 "   You find the interview, with more examples at http://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-can-digital-nomads-legally-work-in-thailand-p177

[Parsve]

A follow-up question to the first in this matter is of course, If you should pay tax, does it follow the same rules as for Thai? No tax if the annual fee is lower then 150 000 baht and benefits of some social advantages.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Parsve

[mommysboy]

Being circumspect: we all know of the injustice suffered by the humble TEFL teacher in Thailand, so if a rule actually falls in their favour.....then I say they deserve a bit of luck.  And if some perfectly good teachers are taken out of the Thai system because of it then perhaps there needs to be a rethink of this shoddy policy- at the moment some good talent is overlooked.

Edited March 22, 2018 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Parsve said:

4. A foreigner sits in his apartment in Chiang Mai and teaches Chinese students online via Skype.

The verdict: " Officially, work, however it is not a main concern to our office now, so we allow the foreigner to do this without a work permit. "

This verdict considers the scale of the work and the environment.

 

hat is said below is for Chiang Mai. It could be difference in other parts of Thailand. The answer is from an interview March 1 2018 "   You find the interview, with more examples at http://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-can-digital-nomads-legally-work-in-thailand-p177

That's a great posting.  Read in to it what you will, but it appears to me that at this stage they are not bothered because it is doing no harm and would in any case be very difficult to enforce.  Anybody who knows Thailand will also be aware that visibility is a key issue too.

[duanebigsby]

On 3/20/2018 at 1:31 PM, Loaded said:

It's irrelevant whether the money is paid outside of Thailand or not, you need a work permit. Volunteers aren't paid anything but if they are caught without the appropriate visa/wp, they may be chucked out the country via Immigration prison.

 

I guess it's also breaking the Thai Computer Act as well. IE breaking the law by using the Internet.

 

 

Volunteers are out in the open and easily observed. Teaching kids in China from the privacy of your own home would likely never be found out unless you told your thai neighbour who happens to dislike you.

[duanebigsby]

On 3/20/2018 at 1:38 AM, mommysboy said:

 

Is it the way to go?  Well I don't think it pays much unless you put in significant effort and could not be considered a stable position. But this is a business that looks set to boom as it tends to be much cheaper for the student and more convenient.

 

 

You make US $20 an hour or more teaching online. 100 hours for US$2k is substantially more than $850 for 160 hours in a Thai school.

[Loaded]

How many online teachers are prepared to admit to an Immigration, Education, Revenue or Labor officer that they work online teaching Chinese kids from their apartment in Thailand?

 

I rest my case.

[duanebigsby]

9 hours ago, Loaded said:

You taught the boss of the Ministry of Labor's kids and you are on personal terms with the Deputy Commander of Police - wow!!!!

 

Are you also in the SAS?

 

Getting back to your comment about online gambling:

 

"...The five have been charged with conducting illegal online gambling and working in the country without a permit."

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30328650

He asked if he could make a bet online and your example is group of Koreans operating a gambling site business. Two extremely different scenarios.

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, Loaded said:

How many online teachers are prepared to admit to an Immigration, Education, Revenue or Labor officer that they work online teaching Chinese kids from their apartment in Thailand?

 

I rest my case.

 

I think it has been established that it could be deemed illegal (and in this respect you are probably right), and as we know the Thai authorities are not necessarily either consistent or properly informed.  As of this moment, nobody would admit to it, because they don't need to- in the same way I would not go to the police station to admit to a crime I did not commit!

 

Yet it appears that the authorities do not really care for all the reasons both posters and officials have already stated.

 

It's not black and white.

 

If left to guess, it may be that one would have to declare in the future in order to get a special work permit.  But that is for the future.

[duanebigsby]

5 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

Like with most things there is a scale but illegal is illegal.  If I was an I/O I could bag people all day I see blatantly posting on public FB groups about jobs they want or services offered.  From chefs to translators, photographers, tour guides, charter captains, nannies, home cleaners, tattoo artists to guy running a second had shop from home buying up all the second hand stuff than marking it up for resale, I see it all.  Let's face it, you can't claim you are on the internet making money and not think a government will want a piece of the action.  Digital nomads loopholing the system and worse yet, thinking it's legal, ain't gonna last for ever.

Every example you listed, is a person selling a service in Thailand to people in Thailand. The vast majority of digital nomads and online teachers are selling their services outside of Thailand a and being paid outside of Thailand.  It's a gray area but countless times it has been reported that immigration simply doesn't care.

[Scott]

Feel free to discuss the issue, but please keep it civil.  

 

In my many years of experience in Thailand, I know that lots of things are legal until someone 1 step above someone else decides they are illegal.

 

I know and have worked with a number of teachers who teach at a school full-time and do online teaching on the side.   The chances of them getting caught are almost nil, both because they are discreet, working legally in Thailand and there isn't much of a visible footprint for anyone to find.  

 

But remember, it is Thailand and in response to Loaded's question, I advised our teachers who did it, to not make it well known.   One never knows when someone will take a disliking to you or become jealous and make a problem.

 

[duanebigsby]

11 minutes ago, Scott said:

Feel free to discuss the issue, but please keep it civil.  

 

In my many years of experience in Thailand, I know that lots of things are legal until someone 1 step above someone else decides they are illegal.

 

I know and have worked with a number of teachers who teach at a school full-time and do online teaching on the side.   The chances of them getting caught are almost nil, both because they are discreet, working legally in Thailand and there isn't much of a visible footprint for anyone to find.  

 

But remember, it is Thailand and in response to Loaded's question, I advised our teachers who did it, to not make it well known.   One never knows when someone will take a disliking to you or become jealous and make a problem.

 

Scott

 

Well said and level-headed.

 

 

I believe people are being civil but are getting impatient with Loaded's assertion that he is 100% correct and won't concede any points to the many who suggest that gray area exists.

[mommysboy]

46 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

Scott

 

Well said and level-headed.

 

 

I believe people are being civil but are getting impatient with Loaded's assertion that he is 100% correct and won't concede any points to the many who suggest that gray area exists.

 

Yes, I do agree in all honesty.  When people debate like this I wonder about motives.

[Johnniey]

7 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

You gotta be kidding calling Loaded a newbie. 

I remember when he joined the forum, so always call him a newbie.

[gamesgplayemail]

Working online illegally is the best thing to show to the idiots controlling this country what they really are !

[Johnniey]

1 hour ago, gamesgplayemail said:

Working online illegally is the best thing to show to the idiots controlling this country what they really are !

Do you stupidly think the rulers of this country care about some loser working for KidsABC, wearing Mickey Mouse ears and wearing a clown's nose? Hardly a threat to national security.

[rojaron]

looks to me like "mr loaded " is a bit biased about this subject,perhaps a school owner?,apparently many English teachers now prefer to work online to working at some of these schools here.

[rojaron]

And anyway this whole discussion is pointless because in Thailand a foreigner can get arrested for doing some work on for example his own boat or house,just about anything.

[HLover]

4 minutes ago, rojaron said:

And anyway this whole discussion is pointless because in Thailand a foreigner can get arrested for doing some work on for example his own boat or house,just about anything.

Does a  self massage count as work?