Online Teaching

[mommysboy]

7 hours ago, Loaded said:

Ah yes, the ol' basing your legal argument on an episode of a US TV cops show - 'case law' in Thailand lol

 

Great that you can quote the 'public prosecutor' as well. Source please.

 

How many times do people need to repeat to you the actual Thai employment law for aliens?

 

Plus, there's the tax you are not declaring. Who do you declare this to? Your home country? China? Thailand? or are you exempt because you say so?

 

 

 

 

I am British. The public prosecutor was mentioned in the link that has been provided many times.  Case Law (UK)=The UK is a common law country and as such judgments andcase law are particularly important as the doctrine of precedent applies. ... As suchcase law becomes part of the law by either setting legal precedents where there is no legislation or interpreting legislation.

 

Note : 'interpreting legislation'

 

 

Taxation is a complex issue and residence does not necessarily mean resident for tax purposes (not that most of us are resident anyway).  There is also the tax jurisdiction to consider.  Also being liable for tax is not the same as evading tax, which requires intent and is usually systematic in nature.  

 

In the final analysis, we have not heard of any reported cases of a farang being arrested for teaching online at home, or tax evasion, and the official line appears to be that no work permit is required.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

I have seen this mentioned before, but nobody has ever provided a link or source - can you?

No. But this is out of the mouths of Chiang Mai immigration- refer to article.

 

It just shows how arbitrary the law can be when left to semi-judicial bodies who act on guidelines as a supplement to the law.

[Loaded]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I am British. The public prosecutor was mentioned in the link that has been provided many times.  Case Law (UK)=The UK is a common law country and as such judgments andcase law are particularly important as the doctrine of precedent applies. ... As suchcase law becomes part of the law by either setting legal precedents where there is no legislation or interpreting legislation.

 

Note : 'interpreting legislation'

 

 

Taxation is a complex issue and residence does not necessarily mean resident for tax purposes (not that most of us are resident anyway).  There is also the tax jurisdiction to consider.  Also being liable for tax is not the same as evading tax, which requires intent and is usually systematic in nature.  

 

In the final analysis, we have not heard of any reported cases of a farang being arrested for teaching online at home, or tax evasion, and the official line appears to be that no work permit is required.

But, again, case law doesn't apply to Thailand. You are working in Thailand and Thai laws apply, not UK or US laws.

 

You are  a Thai tax domicile if you are living and working here - declare your income to the Thai revenue department and they will decide whether you are liable for tax. You won't do this though as you are avoiding paying tax, aren't you?

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

10 minutes ago, Loaded said:

But, again, case law doesn't apply to Thailand. You are working in Thailand and Thai laws apply, not UK or US laws.

 

You are  a Thai tax domicile if you are living and working here - declare your income to the Thai revenue department and they will decide whether you are liable for tax. You won't do this though as you are avoiding paying tax, aren't you?

 

 

Again, it is not about avoiding anything. There is no system in place to pay tax, is there?

 

I am no expert on this but I would imagine that tax payments for foreigners would be linked to contracts, with a Thai company showing income in Thai baht, and work permits, no? 

 

 

[Loaded]

50 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Again, it is not about avoiding anything. There is no system in place to pay tax, is there?

 

I am no expert on this but I would imagine that tax payments for foreigners would be linked to contracts, with a Thai company showing income in Thai baht, and work permits, no? 

 

 

There's no system in place to pay tax in Thailand? lol

 

You declare your income - it's your responsibility to do this.

 

It's incredible that some people actually believe that avoiding being legal (visa/wp) means that you are legal.

[youreavinalaff]

9 minutes ago, Loaded said:

There's no system in place to pay tax in Thailand? lol

 

You declare your income - it's your responsibility to do this.

 

It's incredible that some people actually believe that avoiding being legal (visa/wp) means that you are legal.

Please read my post again. I was referring to the topic of this thread. 

 

So, are you saying that any digital nomad can walk into the tax office and pay tax? No documents required? No connection with any Thai company required?

[duanebigsby]

On 4/2/2018 at 3:40 PM, Loaded said:

But they don't use skype, do they. They used a teaching platform. The questions were loaded.

Sent from my CPH1701 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

They use Skype. Period. End. Thai government doesn't give a rat's a$$ about digital nomads or online teachers doing it in the privacy of their homes.

Give it a rest.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Loaded said:

But, again, case law doesn't apply to Thailand. You are working in Thailand and Thai laws apply, not UK or US laws.

 

You are  a Thai tax domicile if you are living and working here - declare your income to the Thai revenue department and they will decide whether you are liable for tax. You won't do this though as you are avoiding paying tax, aren't you?

 

 

 

No, I am not avoiding paying tax- how presumptive of you to know!

 

 

Interpretation of this minor quasi-judicial matter appears to rest with the local immigration office.  It is clear that they use many factors in determining whether a rule is being broken.  It seems very arcane and can even lead to the letter of the law even being completely ignored as far as I can see.  But there it is- previously interpretation has cut very badly for TEFLERS... this time it hasn't.  But of course it could change in the future.

 

 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, duanebigsby said:

They use Skype. Period. End. Thai government doesn't give a rat's a$$ about digital nomads or online teachers doing it in the privacy of their homes.

Give it a rest.

I think you have hit the nail on the head.  

[Happy Grumpy]

You must be great fun at parties, Loaded.

 

Hours of incorrect dribble because someone mentioned you were wrong. When you were. 

[Loaded]

8 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

No, I am not avoiding paying tax- how presumptive of you to know!

 

 

Interpretation of this minor quasi-judicial matter appears to rest with the local immigration office.  It is clear that they use many factors in determining whether a rule is being broken.  It seems very arcane and can even lead to the letter of the law even being completely ignored as far as I can see.  But there it is- previously interpretation has cut very badly for TEFLERS... this time it hasn't.  But of course it could change in the future.

 

 

I don't believe you but go on, humor me. Where do you declare your income from online teaching?

 

Immigration, Labor, Education and Revenue department requirements and laws - "quasi-judicial" lol.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, Loaded said:

I don't believe you but go on, humor me. Where do you declare your income from online teaching?

 

Immigration, Labor, Education and Revenue department requirements and laws - "quasi-judicial" lol.

 

I do not teach online.   But I am looking in to it right now.  I would be sure to fit in with tax liability, however imo there probably will be none.  If one is required to be self-employed then assessment would take place at the end of a year I assume.

 

I will not teach again in a Thai school - hell holes!

 

The Immigration department seems to be the department solely responsible for enacting the law in the cases described.  

 

I can't begin to understand how they can overlook what appears to be in black and white, yet I suppose there are exceptions in all laws which are usually listed in sub-sections.  There have been previous examples,eg , teachers being allowed to work during the work permit application process.

 

 

The present law simply made no accommodation for cross border cases such as online teaching where jurisdiction is not clear.  In my opinion using the internet as previously described doesn't constitute use of the countries resources, which probably refers to land, labour, and capital- office space serving as an example.  Immigration at Chiang Mai seem to see it this way too.

 

Two axioms of the law as I understand it is that it must be reasonable in form, and reasonable in application.  

 

 

 

 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

 

I do not teach online.   But I am looking in to it right now.  I would be sure to fit in with tax liability, however imo there probably will be none.  If one is required to be self-employed then assessment would take place at the end of a year I assume.

 

I will not teach again in a Thai school - hell holes!

 

The Immigration department seems to be the department solely responsible for enacting the law in the cases described.  

 

I can't begin to understand how they can overlook what appears to be in black and white, yet I suppose there are exceptions in all laws which are usually listed in sub-sections.  There have been previous examples,eg , teachers being allowed to work during the work permit application process.

 

 

The present law simply made no accommodation for cross border cases such as online teaching where jurisdiction is not clear.  In my opinion using the internet as previously described doesn't constitute use of the countries resources, which probably refers to land, labour, and capital- office space serving as an example.  Immigration at Chiang Mai seem to see it this way too.

 

Two axioms of the law as I understand it is that it must be reasonable in form, and reasonable in application.  

 

 

 

 

addendum: country's resources

[Happy Grumpy]

A friend of mine teaches online, paid to an American account and pays tax in America. 

[Loaded]

maybe, probably, hopefully but unlikely

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Happy Grumpy said:

A friend of mine teaches online, paid to an American account and pays tax in America. 

A key point- tax is due in the country of jurisdiction.

[pearciderman]

21 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I suppose there are exceptions in all laws which are usually listed in sub-sections.  There have been previous examples,eg , teachers being allowed to work during the work permit application process.

 

This has never been "allowed", it is illegal. Do not confuse the lack of application of the law with being legal.

[mommysboy]

5 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

This has never been "allowed", it is illegal. Do not confuse the lack of application of the law with being legal.

That was exactly my point: the letter of the law states it is not allowed, yet the law is never applied.

[pearciderman]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

That was exactly my point: the letter of the law states it is not allowed, yet the law is never applied.

 

That does not make it allowed or legal. You seem confused as to what legal means as compared to tolerated or not chased.

[youreavinalaff]

The Labour office know that you are teaching before receiving a work permit. They know this because you need a contract in order to get a teaching licence waiver from the teachers council of Thailand.

 

That contract will have a date on it. That date could be anything upto 2 months before the work permit application. Labour office do not say "you cannot teach until you get your work permit".

 

They are therefore allowing you to teach.

[pearciderman]

12 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

They know this because you need a contract in order to get a teaching licence waiver from the teachers council of Thailand.

 

Not everyone needs either a licence or a waiver, only those that fall under OBEC. My establishment comes under OHEC, and we do not need waivers or licences.

 

12 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

That contract will have a date on it. That date could be anything upto 2 months before the work permit application. Labour office do not say "you cannot teach until you get your work permit".

 

They are therefore allowing you to teach.

 

No, you are getting confused, they assume that you are following the law and not teaching until you have the work permit in hand, they are not allowing you to teach, that is way outside their remit.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, pearciderman said:

 

Not everyone needs either a licence or a waiver, only those that fall under OBEC. My establishment comes under OHEC, and we do not need waivers or licences.

 

 

No, you are getting confused, they assume that you are following the law and not teaching until you have the work permit in hand, they are not allowing you to teach, that is way outside their remit.

So when I last visited our local labour office with work permit application in hand , dressed in a school shirt, and the officer asked "How is the job going?" what was he assuming? When my application was passed to the director of the office and he saw me there, dressed in school shirt, what was he assuming?

 

What about the time that the labour office decided to come and take photos of us teaching, as part of the application process, what were they assuming?

[pearciderman]

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

So when I last visited our local labour office with work permit application in hand , dressed in a school shirt, and the officer asked "How is the job going?" what was he assuming? When my application was passed to the director of the office and he saw me there, dressed in school shirt, what was he assuming?

 

What about the time that the labour office decided to come and take photos of us teaching, as part of the application process, what were they assuming?

 

Maybe you should not extrapolate the instance at your local office with offices nationwide.

[mommysboy]

16 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

That does not make it allowed or legal. You seem confused as to what legal means as compared to tolerated or not chased.

No I'm not.  You don't understand that it is the interpretation of the law that is important, so something may be allowed even though the letter of the law seems to indicate otherwise.  I would suggest differentiating between tolerated and allowed is becoming pedantic.

 

Obviously, it is a very strange situation for someone like me that comes from UK.  Here, the law is considerably more black and white.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, pearciderman said:

 

Maybe you should not extrapolate the instance at your local office with offices nationwide.

No, I honestly think it is nationwide.  

[Loaded]

so don't need a non-imm B visa, don't need a work permit and don't need to declare your income to work legally in Thailand now - wow!!

 

You guys are in denial because you've been getting away with it for so long.

 

 

[mommysboy]

16 minutes ago, Loaded said:

so don't need a non-imm B visa, don't need a work permit and don't need to declare your income to work legally in Thailand now - wow!!

 

You guys are in denial because you've been getting away with it for so long.

 

 

Who said that?  

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, Loaded said:

so don't need a non-imm B visa, don't need a work permit and don't need to declare your income to work legally in Thailand now - wow!!

 

You guys are in denial because you've been getting away with it for so long.

 

 

I think I have made it quite clear that I had a work permit when I was working in Thailand. See my post above. Thanks.

[Rhys]

Thus keep it to yourself and move on and stop telling the world on TV...55555

[Happy Grumpy]

2 hours ago, Loaded said:

so don't need a non-imm B visa, don't need a work permit and don't need to declare your income to work legally in Thailand now - wow!!

Great, isn't it.

 

Be employed remotely by a non-Thai company, that has no business with Thais or Thailand, paid into a non-Thai bank account and declare the income and pay the tax in your home nation, while doing it by yourself in your own property.