Planning for possible red stamp advice

[NorthernRyland]

I'm going to Vientien to get TV on the 8th next month and I'm likely risking a red stamp from all the reports I've read so I'd like to plan for that if possible. Since I got pulled out of line and questioned at Chiang Mai immigration for having lots of TV's I think it's smart to expect the worst just in case. There's my entire history in my current passport. I have some visa exempt stamps mixed in between but never more than 1 or 2 a year. Providing I actually get the visa I'm going back home after it's used and I'll be getting a new passport for damn sure.

 

3x USA - 2013

3x USA - 2014

3x USA - 2015

1x USA - 2016

1x Vientien  2016

1x Phnom Pen 2017

1x USA 2017

1x Phnom Pen 2018

 

I have 1 visa exempt from Mae Sai in 2018 and one from 2017, both since my last trip to the USA in August.

 

Questions:

 

If I understand the red stamp they still give the actual visa so I still have 2 months to get back home? I read peoples accounts of getting that treatment and then people getting flat out denied any visa at all.

 

If they don't give the visa can I still get a visa exempt when I re-enter Thailand so I have at least 1 month to leave? I was told it's 2 per calendar year but the IO in Mae Sai told me 2 since last visa to home country so I don't know what the people in Laos will come up with.

 

They don't seem to ask for bank statement/flight out of Thailand in Vientien but should I still submit those anyways? I suspect yet. I didn't buy my ticket back home yet because I'm not sure if I should have it for the visa application or if I should buy it after in case I get a red stamp and it messes up my dates.

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[darrendsd]

Getting pulled out of line has no bearing on getting another SETV, Immigration and Embassy's are 2 separate entity's

 

You have only had 1 SETV from Vientiane, you should be ok for 2 more before you get the red stamp, however nothing is guaranteed, especially with your history which I assume are all in the same Passport?

 

You don't need to submit banks statements/flights out at Vientiane, they won't and don't ask for them, having them has no bearing whatsoever in getting a SETV, If they are going to refuse you nothing you show them  or provide them will change their mind

 

If you get the visa, and you get the red stamp you can still use it for 90 days total, you will only be able to get another one from there with a new PP

 

Immigration at Nong Khai are very relaxed, however with your history I would take no chances, take 20k in cash, a ticket out of the country within 60 days and a hotel booking for at least 2 weeks (there are ways to do the last 2 very cheaply if you know what I mean)

 

If you do get the red stamp it's time to change your PP

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, genericptr said:

If I understand the red stamp they still give the actual visa so I still have 2 months to get back home?

Usually, yes. They are more likely to simply refuse to take your application if they don’t want to give you a visa. You would have 90 days if you extend your stay.

 

5 hours ago, genericptr said:

If they don't give the visa can I still get a visa exempt when I re-enter Thailand so I have at least 1 month to leave? I was told it's 2 per calendar year but the IO in Mae Sai told me 2 since last visa to home country so I don't know what the people in Laos will come up with.

Yes, you should still be able to get a visa exempt entry. Ignore the IO’s info. The limit is 2 per calendar year (1st Jan - 31st Dec). That doesn’t change even if you go home in between.

 

5 hours ago, genericptr said:

They don't seem to ask for bank statement/flight out of Thailand in Vientien but should I still submit those anyways?

No point unless they ask for them, which they usually don’t.

[BritTim]

I do not think you will get a red stamp from Vientiane, because this is only your second from there.

 

Bear in mind, after you receive a red stamp, further SETVs from Savannakhet are still possible.

[gk10002000]

How about getting a proper visa for whatever it is you are doing?  Extension by marriage?  Work Permit?  Buy a Thai Elite?   You know and are aware of possible scrutiny or problems.

[NorthernRyland]

9 hours ago, darrendsd said:

You have only had 1 SETV from Vientiane, you should be ok for 2 more before you get the red stamp, however nothing is guaranteed, especially with your history which I assume are all in the same Passport?

Same passport. Old passport maybe had one TV in it.

 

9 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

You don't need to submit banks statements/flights out at Vientiane, they won't and don't ask for them, having them has no bearing whatsoever in getting a SETV, If they are going to refuse you nothing you show them  or provide them will change their mind

That's interesting because that's Thailands official policy so Vientiane willfully ignoring it is strange.

 

9 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

If you get the visa, and you get the red stamp you can still use it for 90 days total, you will only be able to get another one from there with a new PP

Before I wrote this thread I searched for other red stamp stories in addition to ones I read here once and a while. On of the stories I read had the person getting rejected upon collecting the passport and immigration officer said they have his record on the computer. That's just one account but I'm not certain a new PP helps anything.

 

9 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

Immigration at Nong Khai are very relaxed, however with your history I would take no chances, take 20k in cash, a ticket out of the country within 60 days and a hotel booking for at least 2 weeks (there are ways to do the last 2 very cheaply if you know what I mean)

 

I didn't think that could be a bottle neck there. I can bring cash easily but my plane ticket would be for 90 days. Just staying in a rental house which was never a problem for immigration. Thanks for the heads up.

[NorthernRyland]

44 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

How about getting a proper visa for whatever it is you are doing?  Extension by marriage?  Work Permit?  Buy a Thai Elite?   You know and are aware of possible scrutiny or problems.

I need to get the 7k USD in the bank for a METV but I didn't have that last summer when I needed it. I'm not sure if that's even any better or I'm still considered a visa runner and I'll get denied during application from Los Angeles etc... but that's probably my best bet since it's only 1 application instead of 3. I'm going to try to find some work this summer when I go back home and think if it's even worth staying in Thailand anymore or get 7k. I could get married also but I don't have 12k in the bank even if I wanted to get married to her :).

[NorthernRyland]

 

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

I do not think you will get a red stamp from Vientiane, because this is only your second from there.

 

Bear in mind, after you receive a red stamp, further SETVs from Savannakhet are still possible.

 

I'm not so sure about that after reading various old posts about the red stamp. It seems very arbitrary and some stories had people getting rejected for the sheer number of visas regardless of location/time and others just getting a mean person on a bad day (unless there's something they weren't telling me). I know the CM incident I experienced doesn't have any bearing here but I didn't think a person that traveled home every year for 2 months was on their radar but clearly it is.

[darrendsd]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

Usually, yes. They are more likely to simply refuse to take your application if they don’t want to give you a visa. You would have 90 days if you extend your stay.

I have been at Vientiane on 2 occasions where they have taken the PP of the applicant and the applicant has picked it up the next day with a void stamp on the visa in the PP

 

This also happened to another poster at another location recently

 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by darrendsd

[darrendsd]

30 minutes ago, genericptr said:

That's interesting because that's Thailands official policy so Vientiane willfully ignoring it is strange.

No it's not Thailand's official policy, policy's vary from Embassy to Embassy

 

32 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I'm not certain a new PP helps anything.

When dealing with Embassy's yes it does

[NorthernRyland]

6 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

I have been at Vientiane on 2 occasions where they have taken the PP of the applicant and the applicant has picked it up the next day with a void stamp on the visa in the PP

 

This also happened to another poster at another location recently

This is a good example of everything going wrong for who knows why. I don't see this guy did anything wrong and even had METV's from USA prior. This is why we need to all plan for the worst I guess and avoid getting visas from them. They did ask to see this guys bank statement so that's a good to know and I'll make sure to have that. Thanks for posting.

 

As per the new PP, if that's true then I just need to survive until June/July when I go back home anyways and get a new one while I'm back.

[darrendsd]

1 minute ago, genericptr said:

This is a good example of everything going wrong for who knows why. I don't see this guy did anything wrong and even had METV's from USA prior. This is why we need to all plan for the worst I guess and avoid getting visas from them. They did ask to see this guys bank statement so that's a good to know and I'll make sure to have that. Thanks for posting.

 

As per the new PP, if that's true then I just need to survive until June/July when I go back home anyways and get a new one while I'm back.

They asked because it is required at that location, at Vientiane it is not, different Embassy's different policy's 

 

Vientiane does not ask for a bank statement

 

It is 100% true about the new PP,  Embassy's do not keep records of visas issued, they just look at your current PP so if you have a blank one they don't know how many you have had previously from there or anywhere

 

However  all your previous history will still be on record with Thailand Immigration

[alex8912]

5 hours ago, genericptr said:

 

 

I'm not so sure about that after reading various old posts about the red stamp. It seems very arbitrary and some stories had people getting rejected for the sheer number of visas regardless of location/time and others just getting a mean person on a bad day (unless there's something they weren't telling me). I know the CM incident I experienced doesn't have any bearing here but I didn't think a person that traveled home every year for 2 months was on their radar but clearly it is.

Maybe  the combination of you “not having 7K USD last summer for an METV” and perhaps this summer, because “you are going to TRY to find some work back home this summer”  and your long history of stays in Thailand and very short stays in the USA all seem a little fishy to an immigration officer or embassy???  They may wonder how you are supporting yourself and/ or working! Just a thought I’m throwing out.  You sometimes need to put yourself in their shoes. You also need employment verification for a METV. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by alex8912

[NorthernRyland]

Just now, alex8912 said:

Maybe  the combination of you “not having 7K USD last summer for an METV” and perhaps this summer, because “you are going to TRY to find some work back home this summer”  and your long history of stays in Thailand all seem a little fishy to an immigration officer or embassy???  They may wonder how you are supporting yourself and/ or working! Just a thought I’m throwing out.  You sometimes need to put yourself in their shoes. You also need employment verification for a METV. 

Sure enough. I have enough money to live here from my passive income but it's not accumulated to 7k. They asked me that same question in CM immigration and just saying I have a passive income from an online business and family/girlfriend here was enough to make that one women happy. That's not always enough though and sometimes they just don't want people floating around in the their countries without a better justification. Simply having enough money to pay the bills isn't enough anymore it seems.

 

I don't actually know for certain but I feel like I read at some point it was ok to show self-employment as a requirement but that may not be true for all embassies or all cases. I have an LLC registered in the US for nearly 10 years now but if they don't accept that then I'd probably assume to just give up on Thailand for now.

[DJ54]

If you’re a US citizen go to the US Embassy and get a Income affidavit. $50 USD Check they do accept Credit Card and possibly THB. Fill out the form provided online fill it out(do not sign). They ask you to swear to it or the equivalent of it. This may be only for retirement visa. Others can chime in. Thanks 

[cacahootie]

11 hours ago, genericptr said:

I could get married also but I don't have 12k in the bank even if I wanted to get married to her :).

400k baht equivalent in the bank is not really necessary for either a marriage extension or a Non-O visa based on marriage.  Last week I went to Savannakhet and received a 1 year visa with no financial proof whatsoever (as is well-documented on this forum).  Furthermore, if you want to go the extension route, Immigration will accept an income affidavit showing at least 40k baht/month income in lieu of bank statements.  Of course, getting married is it's own bureaucratic headache in and of itself, and you shouldn't get married if you don't want to be married to that person.

 

You seem to be overdramatizing things a bit and getting caught up in the abstract requirements instead of the practical requirements and collected wisdom available in this forum.  I understand getting pulled aside can make one a little uneasy (it has happened to me, I know the feeling), but so far you've not been refused a visa or denied entry... so use the wisdom here and don't get too worked up.  Dealing with all of this is the price one pays for not having a more "legitimate" basis of stay or the disposable money to purchase an Elite visa.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, DJ54 said:

If you’re a US citizen go to the US Embassy and get a Income affidavit. $50 USD Check they do accept Credit Card and possibly THB. Fill out the form provided online fill it out(do not sign). They ask you to swear to it or the equivalent of it. This may be only for retirement visa. Others can chime in. Thanks 

I don't think it's really about that. They don't want to set clear boundaries but they also don't want people just floating around in their country on tourist visas anymore. I've never got a METV but I suspect if you're living here for years and not going home they'll deny these also. The bottom line seems to be they want you to buy the new elite visa, get married or retire, otherwise you're not really much use to them I think.

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, cacahootie said:

You seem to be overdramatizing things a bit and getting caught up in the abstract requirements instead of the practical requirements and collected wisdom available in this forum. 

Thanks you're probably right. It does actually bother me that I'm not a "tourist" yet I'm on tourist visas so I'm clearly focused on the abstract like you say. 

[gk10002000]

7 hours ago, DJ54 said:

If you’re a US citizen go to the US Embassy and get a Income affidavit. $50 USD Check they do accept Credit Card and possibly THB. Fill out the form provided online fill it out(do not sign). They ask you to swear to it or the equivalent of it. This may be only for retirement visa. Others can chime in. Thanks 

Well income can be used for a few types of visas and extensions.  The OP does not seem to be either.  Not marriage, not over 50 retirement, etc.  Wish him luck and glad he likes Thailand, but he is trying to finagle ways to visit and stay without really having the finances or circumstances Thailand expects. 

[NorthernRyland]

7 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Wish him luck and glad he likes Thailand, but he is trying to finagle ways to visit and stay without really having the finances or circumstances Thailand expects. 

Thanks. :) If you look at my history in that passport you'll see once they stopped doing 3x entries from USA that was basically the beginning of the end in Thailand for me. I need to give up on the place and go back home until I make a better plan.

[darrendsd]

26 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Thanks. :) If you look at my history in that passport you'll see once they stopped doing 3x entries from USA that was basically the beginning of the end in Thailand for me. I need to give up on the place and go back home until I make a better plan.

"I need to give up on the place and go back home until I make a better plan" What plan will this be? Things are not going to get any easier, in fact they will probably get more difficult for those wanting to stay here on Tourist Visas

 

There are plenty of ways to stay here longterm, you just need to do some research

 

I have been here over 12 years, I have never been married, no kids, no business and not at retirement age, yes it's not easy however it can be done

 

I have to say you seem like a very negative person

Edited March 28, 2018 by darrendsd

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

"I need to give up on the place and go back home until I make a better plan" What plan will this be? Things are not going to get any easier, in fact they will probably get more difficult for those wanting to stay here on Tourist Visas

I never planned to be in Thailand my whole life so presumably I have something better I should be doing with my life. :) The METV is still pretty new so I don't know how viable it is long term or if I could get a new one every year like I used to do in the past. That's most ideal solution if I can get the cash together but I suspect long term I need to bite the bullet and get married.

 

3 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

 

There are plenty of ways to stay here longterm, you just need to do some research

 

I have been here over 12 years, I have never been married, no kids, no business and not at retirement age, yes it's not easy however it can be done

What's your method? Unless you count spending significant time out of the country as a method I think I know what's available. I've been here since 2005 when I simply got a non-O without documents (in the US) and I just thought that's how Thailand was, but of course that's been clamping down ever since with no-end in sight.

 

3 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

 

I have to say you seem like a very negative person

Maybe so but I mainly I just want to be realistic and take this seriously because I know the game is up but I haven't really reacted well (see the last 2 years on TV's)

[darrendsd]

2 hours ago, genericptr said:

Unless you count spending significant time out of the country as a method I think I know what's available.

I came here in Feb 2006 and went home for a family bereavement in December 2006, came back middle of Jan 2007, since then the only time I have left the country is to get a new visa

 

Things are getting harder, I don't dispute that however in my view you could get 5 years here if you do it right

 

You seem to be concentrating to much on METV's, they are not the only option for staying here longterm, there are other options

 

3 hours ago, genericptr said:

because I know the game is up

It's not, if I can do it anyone can

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

 

It's not, if I can do it anyone can

The "game" may not be up at the moment , but its certainly going in that direction

Thanks to Laos , its still game one .

If they start tightening the screws , then its game over (for some of us)

[darrendsd]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The "game" may not be up at the moment , but its certainly going in that direction

Thanks to Laos , its still game one .

If they start tightening the screws , then its game over (for some of us)

Immigration started to change the rules and make things harder in 2006, people said the game was up then and have been saying it ever since

 

Some people know how to play the game, some don't, if you have a defeatist attitude that the OP seems to have then you will lose the game i'm afraid

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by darrendsd

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Immigration started to change the rules and make things harder in 2006, people said the game was up then and have been saying it ever since

Some people know how to play the game, some don't, if you have a defeatist attitude that the OP seems to have then you will lose the game i'm afraid

The current stringent  immigration clampdown began in 2013 (ish) when they stopped allowing endless VES , they then stopped the METV and made restrictions on the SETV (limiting them) and also adding certain requirements , they also tried to implement a maximum of 180 days per year in Thailand , although that was revoked .

   Not to mention people getting questioned at borders and sometimes having to show money , red stamps and voided visas .

   Thanks to Laos leniency , its still game on , once they become more stringent , it was be game over .

   I suppose there always be some way , its just whether people are willing  to go to the extent of having to comply .

[NorthernRyland]

29 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

I came here in Feb 2006 and went home for a family bereavement in December 2006, came back middle of Jan 2007, since then the only time I have left the country is to get a new visa

 

Things are getting harder, I don't dispute that however in my view you could get 5 years here if you do it right

 

You seem to be concentrating to much on METV's, they are not the only option for staying here longterm, there are other options

 

Then care to enlighten me please? The METV is interesting to me because it replaced the old 3x TV I used to get and was happy with because it allowed me to stay in Thailand 9-10 months out of the year. I'm not even certain if they'll accept my LLC as proof of employment but it's worth trying . That visa doesn't make sense to me because they offer a long term "tourist" visa and proof of employment, as if any company would let you travel multiple months a year in Thailand. That's another topic however and I'm getting stuck on the abstract details as was pointed out earlier. :)

 

If you have some unknown solution to this problem then please let us know. 

 

 

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

   Thanks to Laos leniency , its still game on , once they become more stringent , it was be game over .

 

That's my feeling also. They're clamping down hard on Cambodian land borders now (as I read) so it's just a matter of time before those people flood Laos and put pressure on them to tighten up. I could be optimistic but I think the time for that is over and it's time to get real.

 

I don't want to come across as defeatist but when you can clearly see you're walking towards the edge of a cliff you should at the very least be cautious right?

[darrendsd]

12 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Then care to enlighten me please? The METV is interesting to me because it replaced the old 3x TV I used to get and was happy with because it allowed me to stay in Thailand 9-10 months out of the year. I'm not even certain if they'll accept my LLC as proof of employment but it's worth trying . That visa doesn't make sense to me because they offer a long term "tourist" visa and proof of employment, as if any company would let you travel multiple months a year in Thailand. That's another topic however and I'm getting stuck on the abstract details as was pointed out earlier. :)

 

If you have some unknown solution to this problem then please let us know. 

 

 

It's not unknown, the info is available just by doing some simple searching

[darrendsd]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

they also tried to implement a maximum of 180 days per year in Thailand , although that was revoked

They didn't do this is 2013, it was either 2004 or 2006 if I remember correctly