States vow to fight U.S. plan to ask citizenship question on census

[webfact]

States vow to fight U.S. plan to ask citizenship question on census

By Daniel Trotta

 

U.S. Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross testifies to the House Appropriations Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies Subcommittee on the Commerce Department's FY2019 budget request on Capitol Hill in Washington, U.S., March 20, 2018. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - New York, California and other states vowed on Tuesday to stop the U.S. government from asking in the 2020 census whether people are citizens, arguing the question could stop immigrants from participating and skew the makeup of Congress.

 

The U.S. Census Bureau decided to include the citizenship question in the once-a-decade questionnaire, saying an accurate count of citizens would help protect minority rights under the landmark Voting Rights Act of 1965, according to Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross.

 

But liberal opponents feared that the decision would have the opposite effect. They said the move was designed to undercount immigrants, potentially reducing their representation in Congress and federal funding for local jurisdictions, which is determined by population.

 

"It is a scare tactic to try to scare Latinos and others from participating in the 2020 census," Arturo Vargas, executive director of the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials (NALEO) Educational Fund, told reporters.

 

Pending legal challenges from the states or an unlikely intervention from the Republican-controlled Congress, the citizenship question would appear in the decennial census for the first time since 1950.

 

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman said he would lead a multistate lawsuit to block the decision.

 

Separately, the State of California filed a lawsuit early Tuesday in federal court against the Commerce Department and the Census Bureau.

The commerce secretary, head of the federal department that runs the Census Bureau, said he authorized the question in response to a Justice Department letter arguing the citizenship question was vital to enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. https://bit.ly/2pIZlXr

 

Although a career staff member sent the Justice Department letter, it was conceived by John Gore, a political appointee who as a lawyer in private practice defended multiple Republican redistricting plans, according to emails obtained by ProPublica.

 

Last year, Gore was appointed by Attorney General Jeff Sessions as the head of the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division, where he reversed the legal challenge to a Texas law that the administration of former President Barack Obama alleged discriminated against minorities.

 

Justice Department spokesman Devin O'Malley declined to comment on Gore's involvement. But he said the department looked forward to defending the citizenship question, which he said was needed "to protect the right to vote and ensure free and fair elections for all Americans."

 

Vanita Gupta, who ran the Civil Rights Division under the Obama administration, said she questioned the stated motives of President Donald Trump's administration.

 

"The Sessions Justice Department is asking for this in the name of voting rights enforcement when it has shown time and time again a reluctance to enforce the Voting Rights Act," Gupta told reporters.

 

Other critics said the inclusion of the question would disrupt years of planning that goes into the census. They said there was not enough time to put the question through the rigorous testing that census questions typically undergo to ensure an accurate count.

 

The U.S. Constitution mandates a census takes place every 10 years, counting every person in the United States.

 

It is used to determine the allocation to states of seats in the U.S. House of Representatives and to distribute billions of dollars in federal funds to local communities.

 

"It is facially constitutional to ask the question," said James Sample, a law professor at Hofstra University, "even though it is colossally dumb" because it was likely to reduce the number of people responding to the census.

 

The Trump administration could probably win a legal case, Sample said. But the challenges may succeed if an inaccurate count leads to a range of unconstitutional consequences, including the unequal distribution of federal funds or potential violations of the "one-person-one-vote" principle, he said.

 

(Reporting by Daniel Trotta, Sarah N. Lynch, Jonathan Stempel, and Eric Beech; Writing by Daniel Trotta; Editing by Frank McGurty and Cynthia Osterman)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-28

[rgraham]

Rather than look for reasons to move ahead with this action look at the motives to resist it. We need to enforce the immigration policies we have in place like they do in other countries such as Thailand. 

[mrwebb8825]

On 28/3/2561 at 6:26 AM, webfact said:

Pending legal challenges from the states or an unlikely intervention from the Republican-controlled Congress, the citizenship question would appear in the decennial census for the first time since 1950.

This is a misrepresentation of the truth.

 

"The U.S. government asked about citizenship for 130 years — from 1820 to 1950 — as part of the decennial “short form” census and continued to do so in the “long form” survey — distributed to 1 in 6 people — through 2000, when the long form was replaced by the annual American Community Survey."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/theres-nothing-wrong-with-a-census-question-about-citizenship/2018/03/29/aa3ee8c2-3367-11e8-94fa-32d48460b955_story.html?utm_term=.5297cf53b5e3

[Jingthing]

Given that "trump" represents a movement that is radically white nationalist and anti-immigrant, anti-"trump" people are totally justified in feeling that "trump" will use the gathered information in nefarious ways. Census decisions like this are supposed to non-political. Given the racist roots of the "trump" movement this proposal smells BIGLY. 

[zydeco]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Given that "trump" represents a movement that is radically white nationalist and anti-immigrant, anti-"trump" people are totally justified in feeling that "trump" will use the gathered information in nefarious ways. Census decisions like this are supposed to non-political. Given the racist roots of the "trump" movement this proposal smells BIGLY. 

Hysteria. It's a legitimate question. 

[Jingthing]

Let's get very real here --

the main tactic of the republican party over the decades has been to place barriers to voting for groups less likely to vote for them.

Now they've got a white nationalist demagogue in power which means they have more power than ever to weaken the Voting Rights Act. 

For "trump" republicans to defend this change as a way to SUPPORT the Voting Rights Act is basically trolling.

They're not satisfied with small lies anymore.

Tell the BIGGEST lies possible and repeat them again and again.

What other infamous authoritarian regime did that? Hmm. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Well, this is a really big deal with really severely bad consequences, but I reckon "trump" will win on this one.

 

Quote

 

The bitter lie behind the census’s citizenship question
The harm will be long-lasting.
...

What is the benefit here? The false justification offered by Sessions and his Justice Department, and repeated in Ross’s decision memo, is that this question is critical for Voting Rights Act enforcement. That argument is a bitter lie, laced with cruel irony. Consider that this is the same Sessions who has called the Voting Rights Act “intrusive” and has shown no compunction in flouting voting rights enshrined in law.

 

 

 

 

http://www.paywallnews.com/life/Opinion-|-The-bitter-lie-behind-the-census’s-citizenship-question.BkFJseoqM.html

Edited March 30, 2018 by Jingthing

[sirineou]

 The Census are there to assess the distribution of populations with in the US and implement policies and representation.

Why do we need to ask if someone is a Citizen?

It should be a simple exercise to create a database of who is a citizen  from records, or who is on Green card or other legal visa.   The rest are illegal.

It is  a subtle way to exclude , illegals from participating   (if the question was asked who would admit to an official they were illegal). 

[Jingthing]

"trump" -- stirring up the fear and division. That's what he does!

 

Another bad idea that will probably be implemented.

 

People saying "trump" is just another bad president and not causing long term damage are kidding themselves.

 

This article is about actual EXPERTS on this topic. As is well known, the "trump" movement is about denigrating experts. In that, this sick movement mirrors the cultural revolution in Mao's China.

 

 

Quote

 

Census Bureau’s Own Expert Panel Rebukes Decision to Add Citizenship Question

...
Those experts — prominent demographers, economists, engineers and others who make up the Census Scientific Advisory Committee — said in a statement that the decision was based on “flawed logic,” could threaten the accuracy and confidentiality of the head count and likely would make it more expensive to conduct.

In the statement, addressed to the acting Census Bureau director, Ron Jarmin, the committee also said it worried about the “implications for attitudes about the Census Bureau,” an allusion to fears that the latest move jeopardized the bureau’s nonpartisan reputation.

 

 

 

http://www.paywallnews.com/news/Census-Bureau’s-Own-Expert-Panel-Rebukes-Decision-to-Add-Citizenship-Question.SJV8H82cM.html

[mrwebb8825]

On 30/3/2561 at 3:41 PM, Jingthing said:

Tell the BIGGEST lies possible and repeat them again and again.

What other infamous authoritarian regime did that? Hmm.

Let's see, most recently off the top of my head, Obama? Who, incidentally was the person responsible for removing the question ahead of the 2010 census to assure his voter base could stay hidden.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/01/did-america-need-a-social-media-president/512405/

Ramping up in 2012 to win again. Then cut a deal with HC that he would appoint her to the prestigious potion of SoS for which she had no qualifications if she'd support him. Concluding in 2016 by helping her access the social media info gathered and compiled into the DNC data base and colluding with the FBI, the DoJ, Steele, etc. in a last ditch effort to right their sinking ship.

Now, President Trump does NOT make up or choose the questions for the census but I would imagine he supports this question. I would hope that the DoJ, in further enforcement of the Voter Rights Act would impose mandatory photo ID checks at all polling stations as well as the removal of instructions in foreign languages. If you can't read English, you can't be an American citizen. (+/- 2% for illiteracy) and if you're NOT an American citizen then you can NOT vote. Period! As written in the Constitution: "The right of citizens of the United States..." which does NOT include green card holders, immigrants, legal or illegal, all of whom are also barred from receiving federal social services which is WHY we have a census mandated by the Constitution.

[cabinfever]

On 3/30/2018 at 3:27 PM, mrwebb8825 said:

This is a misrepresentation of the truth.

 

"The U.S. government asked about citizenship for 130 years — from 1820 to 1950 — as part of the decennial “short form” census and continued to do so in the “long form” survey — distributed to 1 in 6 people — through 2000, when the long form was replaced by the annual American Community Survey."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/theres-nothing-wrong-with-a-census-question-about-citizenship/2018/03/29/aa3ee8c2-3367-11e8-94fa-32d48460b955_story.html?utm_term=.5297cf53b5e3

The point of the census is to get as much information as possible. If you scare away people from answering, your data is less good. That's why the expert committee is against it. Moreover, while it's ture that the American Community Survey does ask this question, it's also true that this survey anonymizes the information by consolidating it into much larger blocks than does the full census. So it's a lot harder to identify where the respondents live.

[samran]

The GOP wanting to protect minority rights under the Voting Rights Act???

 

Really?!?

 

You’ve got to be pretty feeble minded to think that they had any concern for minority rights. 

 

It would be as believable as the GOP saying they want to protect Roe vs Wade. 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by samran

[mrwebb8825]

1 hour ago, cabinfever said:

If you scare away people from answering, your data is less good.

No legal US citizen would be "scared away" therefor the data collected would reflect a greater accuracy for the correct distribution of federal funds meant to assist legal US citizens and NOT be funneled to assist sanctuary cities touting a larger, legal populace then they really have as it did under Obama.

[mrwebb8825]

1 hour ago, samran said:

The GOP wanting to protect minority rights under the Voting Rights Act???

 

Really?!?

 

You’ve got to be pretty feeble minded to think that they had any concern for minority rights. 

 

It would be as believable as the GOP saying they want to protect Roe vs Wade. 

 

 

This isn't about minorities, it's about illegals sucking off the federal government tit with the aid of democrat state governments.

The fact that minority leaders are freaking out only goes to prove that they are hiding illegals and defrauding the federal government.

Edited April 1, 2018 by mrwebb8825

[samran]

52 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

This isn't about minorities

Um...that’s what I said. Well done for reading. 

[mrwebb8825]

3 minutes ago, samran said:

Um...that’s what I said. Well done for reading. 

You brought up minorities, not me. The whole census is not about minorities nor majorities. It's about legal citizens and properly distributed federal funds that don't get used to help people in the country illegally.

That's 1 of the problems with democrat thinking. The press and convoluted government liberals making everything minorities vs "whitey" instead of American citizens vs illegals. People need to stop color-coding everything for political leverage. If the democrats really ever gave two shits about the illegals they would have jumped on President Trump's DACA offer that included their extended families. 

[samran]

1 hour ago, mrwebb8825 said:

You brought up minorities, not me. The whole census is not about minorities nor majorities. It's about legal citizens and properly distributed federal funds that don't get used to help people in the country illegally.

That's 1 of the problems with democrat thinking. The press and convoluted government liberals making everything minorities vs "whitey" instead of American citizens vs illegals. People need to stop color-coding everything for political leverage. If the democrats really ever gave two shits about the illegals they would have jumped on President Trump's DACA offer that included their extended families. 

Golly - you do realise why the Voting Rights Act was passed?

[cabinfever]

1 hour ago, mrwebb8825 said:

You brought up minorities, not me. The whole census is not about minorities nor majorities. It's about legal citizens and properly distributed federal funds that don't get used to help people in the country illegally.

That's 1 of the problems with democrat thinking. The press and convoluted government liberals making everything minorities vs "whitey" instead of American citizens vs illegals. People need to stop color-coding everything for political leverage. If the democrats really ever gave two shits about the illegals they would have jumped on President Trump's DACA offer that included their extended families. 

No, wrong. The census is not just about US citizens and legal residents.. It's about collecting data on who's living in the united states. It's supposed to address reality, things as they actually are, not as some might wish them to be.

Edited April 1, 2018 by cabinfever

[samran]

25 minutes ago, cabinfever said:

No, wrong. The census is not just about US citizens and legal residents.. It's about collecting data on who's living in the united states. It's supposed to address reality, things as they actually are, not as some might wish them to be.

But you know, living in a fact free world where statements are unsupported by data is the natural habitat for many it seems. 

 

If if I was going to be an @areshole deliberately to a subset of people within my borders then I’d be at least be doing it with the fullest possible information. But they aren’t even smart enough to see that far ahead. 

[mrwebb8825]

As for fears of the illegals and those helping them, they should learn how to read English:

 

"The U.S. Bureau of the Census is required to keep individual census data absolutely confidential for seventy-two years."

 

Most of them will be dead by then.

[cabinfever]

1 hour ago, mrwebb8825 said:

As for fears of the illegals and those helping them, they should learn how to read English:

 

"The U.S. Bureau of the Census is required to keep individual census data absolutely confidential for seventy-two years."

 

Most of them will be dead by then.

And they should believe that because it is so written? Especially when the head of the executive branch, which is in charge of enforcing the laws, is headed by Donald Trump? And it's not the constitution that guarantees 72 years of privacy, it's a statute. And statutes can be changed.

Edited April 1, 2018 by cabinfever

[samran]

1 hour ago, mrwebb8825 said:

As for fears of the illegals and those helping them, they should learn how to read English:

 

"The U.S. Bureau of the Census is required to keep individual census data absolutely confidential for seventy-two years."

 

Most of them will be dead by then.

What are you banging on about? I thought your mob didn’t trust central government? 

[gk10002000]

On 3/30/2018 at 7:00 AM, sirineou said:

 The Census are there to assess the distribution of populations with in the US and implement policies and representation.

Why do we need to ask if someone is a Citizen?

It should be a simple exercise to create a database of who is a citizen  from records, or who is on Green card or other legal visa.   The rest are illegal.

It is  a subtle way to exclude , illegals from participating   (if the question was asked who would admit to an official they were illegal). 

Most US people that were born in the USA and are "citizens"  might not know what defines citizenship.  If they never got a passport, the only thing they might have is a birth certificate laying around somewhere.   As you say, the USA should already know who its citizens are.  

 

  Also, although the constitution says a census must be conducted every ten years, until recently there was no law saying any particular individual had to go answer questions or fill out forms.  I am all for the government taking a census, I am NOT for being threatened under penalty of law for not filling out any forms. 

[samran]

On 28/03/2018 at 6:37 PM, rgraham said:

Rather than look for reasons to move ahead with this action look at the motives to resist it. We need to enforce the immigration policies we have in place like they do in other countries such as Thailand. 

‘Countries such as Thailand’

 

so lets see what a Thailand has done of late. 

 

- opens up a window for about three months every year for illegal migrants from neighboring countries to register as legal residents so long as they have a job

 

- made the visas and work permits valid for two years at a time - and extendable 

 

- gives them access to a universal health care system

 

- as of last year, passed laws that allow the children of migrant laborers to gain Thai citizenship. 

 

The whole ethos was so that people weren’t exploited, their kids and family had access to schooling and health care and so people wouldn’t have to fly under the radar.

 

nothing about sending them home. 

 

so you are correct, the US probably could learn a thing or two from Thailand.