Legalising Rape By Both Spouses

[MiG16]

Bangkok Post of today 25.01.2007 : Draft law legalises rape by both spouses.

Any comments please

And at the risk of mega flame let me say, so it should be. The police have enough to do without getting involved with bedroom marital disputes.

Also, at the risk of mega flame, I have to say that I agree with this. I was actually thinking the same thing but just have not posted it yet.

You think an act of extreme violence should go unpunished, and the victim should have no rights because it happened in the bedroom and she is married to her attacker?

comments above only stresses my point earlier that it is the entire community that need to be educated to be more sensitive to such problems. attitudes like that which treat violence against women as domestic disputes are exactly the problem. some of you ask why women do not report incidents of rape, or other forms of abuse. I have worked with such women, some of whom report it only to have police tell them to"GO HOME AND COOK A NICE MEAL FOR YOUR HUSBAND AND TRY NOT TO ANGER HIM IN THE FUTRE" !!!!! with these kind of lack of support, how can women who suffer mistreatment not feel threatened?

do remember that women's rights are human rights, and this includes the right to a life free of violence. being married to someone does not mean they forfeit their basic right to life.

Silence, ignorance, denial, tolerance, even acceptance all seem to be too common where infact there should be outrage. I hope the men on this forum would take the time to read more about the White Ribbon campaign ( http://www.whiteribbon.com

a good response and commitment by men to end all forms of violence against women, but very obviously, more of you need to get involved. or atleast change your attitude.

Edited January 26, 2007 by MiG16

[Acquiesce]

Bangkok Post of today 25.01.2007 : Draft law legalises rape by both spouses.

Any comments please

And at the risk of mega flame let me say, so it should be. The police have enough to do without getting involved with bedroom marital disputes.

Also, at the risk of mega flame, I have to say that I agree with this. I was actually thinking the same thing but just have not posted it yet.

Unbelievable

[BlackArtemis]

introducing the new "gender equality"

Too bad they are also illegal here.

[sibeymai]

what happens when the batteries run out ? ......back to "gender inequality" I guess

[buriramboy]

now we are all clear on the rape laws (or lack of them) between husband and wife, what about the murder laws between husband and wife because if my wife raped me with that thing, i have a feeling i could commit murder.

BB

[luckyluke]

so next time i have a headache or just not in the mood my wife can now just rape me and nothing i can do about it. definately time to leave Thailand. lmfao

So next time your wife have a headache or not in the mood you can just rape her and nothing she can do about it,definately time you leave thailand.

[buriramboy]

in over 5 years shes never had a headache yet, but i suppose theirs always a first time for everything.

[TAWP]

Don't forget that thai woman seem to have taken over the throne from US-woman when it comes to doing a 'Lorena Bobbit', for various reasons...

Edited January 26, 2007 by TAWP

[tropo]

comments above only stresses my point earlier that it is the entire community that need to be educated to be more sensitive to such problems. attitudes like that which treat violence against women as domestic disputes are exactly the problem. some of you ask why women do not report incidents of rape, or other forms of abuse. I have worked with such women, some of whom report it only to have police tell them to"GO HOME AND COOK A NICE MEAL FOR YOUR HUSBAND AND TRY NOT TO ANGER HIM IN THE FUTRE" !!!!! with these kind of lack of support, how can women who suffer mistreatment not feel threatened?

do remember that women's rights are human rights, and this includes the right to a life free of violence. being married to someone does not mean they forfeit their basic right to life.

Silence, ignorance, denial, tolerance, even acceptance all seem to be too common where infact there should be outrage. I hope the men on this forum would take the time to read more about the White Ribbon campaign ( http://www.whiteribbon.com

a good response and commitment by men to end all forms of violence against women, but very obviously, more of you need to get involved. or atleast change your attitude.

We don't make the laws in Thailand. What we believe is irrelevant apart from upsetting certain members on this forum.

You should take your crusade to the Thai law makers. They have 65 million under their control...you could really make a difference.

[luckyluke]

]

I'll have to disagree with you an that. What happens between married couples in the privacy of their own bedroom is an entirely different matter, and fortunately the Thai law makers were wise enough to realize this.

Go ahead, flame away!

It does not have to been the bedroom alone as long as both parties are agreed.

[aehn]

Bangkok Post of today 25.01.2007 : Draft law legalises rape by both spouses.

Any comments please

A woman in Thailand can not have her husband charged with rape.

And that's the way it has been for years.

Just another confirmation of the Thai males attitude towards woman in the realm.

So far 49 viewers,1 comment(thanks john b good)apparently we still live in a man man's world.

Move to Sweden , here a man cant look at women before gettin charged with rape, in Sweden its womans world.

A man cant say he like a pretty woman before you get angry and upset looks, and run the risk being called a male chauvinist (in Sweden miss universe contests are banned). A woman, on another hand can say and act in whatever way and never running the risk of being labeled as anything.

If you wanna discuss gender issues, move to Sweden, here the feminisist rule the political discourse. Males dont count in anyway here, only females.

Edited January 27, 2007 by aehn

[sbk]

Don't forget that thai woman seem to have taken over the throne from US-woman when it comes to doing a 'Lorena Bobbit', for various reasons...

Lorena Bobbitt was Central American. Get your facts right,. BTW, Thai women have been doing the old 'snip snip' long before Lorena Bobbitt ever made her abusive husband famous.

And it is amazing to me how fast something as disgusting as rape can turn into verbal abuse towards women. Keep this up and the thread will be closed.

[TAWP]

Don't forget that thai woman seem to have taken over the throne from US-woman when it comes to doing a 'Lorena Bobbit', for various reasons...

Lorena Bobbitt was Central American. Get your facts right,. BTW, Thai women have been doing the old 'snip snip' long before Lorena Bobbitt ever made her abusive husband famous.

And it is amazing to me how fast something as disgusting as rape can turn into verbal abuse towards women. Keep this up and the thread will be closed.

Wait, so you say that marrying a marine and living with him in the US doesn't make her American? Right...

In any case, if you try to read my post more carefully I never said that Lorena herself was american, only that women in the US had done 'Lorena Bobbit'-revenges (as a verb), and those instances has become famous - but lately I have heard much more of the thai counterpart - even in local scandinavian media.

I think you let your emotions cloud your judgement if you think the above in any way was an verbal abuse towards woman. I was merely stating that perhaps the inadiquate laws that in practise fail to protect woman in marrige in Thailand helps causing the acts of desperation and anger we see and read about.

Edited January 27, 2007 by TAWP

[TAWP]

Move to Sweden , here a man cant look at women before gettin charged with rape, in Sweden its womans world.

A man cant say he like a pretty woman before you get angry and upset looks, and run the risk being called a male chauvinist (in Sweden miss universe contests are banned). A woman, on another hand can say and act in whatever way and never running the risk of being labeled as anything.

If you wanna discuss gender issues, move to Sweden, here the feminisist rule the political discourse. Males dont count in anyway here, only females.

This is a pack of lies posted by a [selfcensor to avoid mod-warning]. Infact, every single sentence contains incorrect information.

You are an embarresment to our country.

[Boo]

Fact, a womens body is her own, only a women can decide who she has sex with & when. Any kind of forced intercourse, from anyone , is rape. Anyone, male, female, government etc who doesn't get that yet needs their heads examining or maybe have someone place by force & without permission an object in one of their sexual orifices & see how they feel on the subject afterwards.

This law is yet more proof of the major inequality that thai women still have to put up with.

[luckyluke]

Move to Sweden , here a man cant look at women before gettin charged with rape, in Sweden its womans world.

A man cant say he like a pretty woman before you get angry and upset looks, and run the risk being called a male chauvinist (in Sweden miss universe contests are banned). A woman, on another hand can say and act in whatever way and never running the risk of being labeled as anything.

If you wanna discuss gender issues, move to Sweden, here the feminisist rule the political discourse. Males dont count in anyway here, only females.

Thanks, looks nice country.

[TAWP]

This law is yet more proof of the major inequality that thai women still have to put up with.

Indeed. The lack of laws protecting a woman from rape by her husband (or any other abuse, as is the case in many countries) are from the old days when a woman was a mans sole property.

And it's really sad to see that the [male] politicians sence of equality is to allow females to perform the abuse too - sometime we know there is a 1:5000-ratio to happening. They are just to afraid to actually forcing the men to behave like people and not animals.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

While any one with a thread of decency knows that rape is inherently wrong and evil jursidiction over it in the bedrooms of married couples has got to be tough. I know I would not want to be the judge. I mean think about it, the wife thinks her husband is cheating on her or she wants to divorce him, or any vendictive reason she has to get at him. All she has to do is say "My husband raped me". Prove her to be wrong??? how?? Were to begin? Ok, medical tests prove they had sex... they are married, thats normal, Ok there is some evidence of it being rough, aside from bruises from blatant assult (which is still a crime) how do you judge that????

[buriramboy]

even the rape laws in the uk are far from perfect (although a million times better than here), it is basically the only crime in which you are guilty of first until proven innocent. If their are no obvious signs of violence when an alleged rape has taken place, i too would not like to be the judge.

BB

[MiG16]

We don't make the laws in Thailand. What we believe is irrelevant apart from upsetting certain members on this forum.

You should take your crusade to the Thai law makers. They have 65 million under their control...you could really make a difference.

you seem to forget that lawmakers /policymakers , government or whoever...are afterall also ordinary people like ourselves. if each one of us adopt that uncaring attitude, then how can change ever been brought about?

and yes one person might not make a difference to start with, but each one of us can influence the people around us, until one day enough support is brought, and results in change. if we all keep thinking change will not happen...then I guess we'd still be in the old ancient days of hunting and I as a woman would not be able to have this conversation with you would I? cos without going as far back as the stone age...it would almost be a crime for me to talk back to a man

and yes I i will continue my 'crusade' with or without your support. would be nice to have it....Im sure the females in your family and friends circles would appreciate it. if not, then I hope I meet less men like you, and more like the ones in my circle

cheers.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

And as for "Living in a Man's World" as it was put earlier by another poster. I agree the laws here in Thailand are certainly male dominated. However any historian will tell you Freedom is never Free. If Thai women want equal rights bad enough they will have to stand up and fight for them like their sisters abroad. No body is just going to give someone their freedom... it must be earned, often fought for, bleed for, died for even. Thai women apparently aren't ready for that yet. Though one day perhaps, but obviously not today. I guess they need to be more willing to stand up against their parents before they are ready to tackle political change.

[meadish_sweetball]

We don't make the laws in Thailand. What we believe is irrelevant apart from upsetting certain members on this forum.

You should take your crusade to the Thai law makers. They have 65 million under their control...you could really make a difference.

you seem to forget that lawmakers /policymakers , government or whoever...are afterall also ordinary people like ourselves. if each one of us adopt that uncaring attitude, then how can change ever been brought about?

and yes one person might not make a difference to start with, but each one of us can influence the people around us, until one day enough support is brought, and results in change. if we all keep thinking change will not happen...then I guess we'd still be in the old ancient days of hunting and I as a woman would not be able to have this conversation with you would I? cos without going as far back as the stone age...it would almost be a crime for me to talk back to a man

and yes I i will continue my 'crusade' with or without your support. would be nice to have it....Im sure the females in your family and friends circles would appreciate it. if not, then I hope I meet less men like you, and more like the ones in my circle

cheers.

You have my support khun MiG... I am not sure if Tropo realizes you are Thai.

Hopefully you'll become one of the law makers one day. ขอให้สำเร็จในการปรับเปลี่ยนสังคมให้ยุติธรรมขึ้นในอนาคต นะครับ (Hope you'll succeed in making this society more just in the future.)

[luckyluke]

[quote name='MiG16'

Thailand should have more people like you.

With all my respect.

Luckyluke.

[November Rain]

And as for "Living in a Man's World" as it was put earlier by another poster. I agree the laws here in Thailand are certainly male dominated. However any historian will tell you Freedom is never Free. If Thai women want equal rights bad enough they will have to stand up and fight for them like their sisters abroad. No body is just going to give someone their freedom... it must be earned, often fought for, bleed for, died for even. Thai women apparently aren't ready for that yet. Though one day perhaps, but obviously not today. I guess they need to be more willing to stand up against their parents before they are ready to tackle political change.

Just interested - when in history did men stand up and fight , bleed & die for their rights? I'm not talking race or religion or class fights here, just as you aren't about women, I'm talking when did men as a gender have to fight to get their rights? Never, as far as I know. Somebody "just gave them their freedom". Funny that.

Also, how do you know Thai women aren't ready for this yet? Have you done a survey? Research? Or are you just generalising?

This thread isn't about women's rights or feminism. It's about the fundamental basic human right not to be subjected to rape, particularly by someone you are married to - or rather, the fact that Thai lawmakers seem to think this scenario is OK. It's not OK for anyone to be raped - man or woman.

[Acquiesce]

We don't make the laws in Thailand. What we believe is irrelevant apart from upsetting certain members on this forum.

You should take your crusade to the Thai law makers. They have 65 million under their control...you could really make a difference.

you seem to forget that lawmakers /policymakers , government or whoever...are afterall also ordinary people like ourselves. if each one of us adopt that uncaring attitude, then how can change ever been brought about?

and yes one person might not make a difference to start with, but each one of us can influence the people around us, until one day enough support is brought, and results in change. if we all keep thinking change will not happen...then I guess we'd still be in the old ancient days of hunting and I as a woman would not be able to have this conversation with you would I? cos without going as far back as the stone age...it would almost be a crime for me to talk back to a man

and yes I i will continue my 'crusade' with or without your support. would be nice to have it....Im sure the females in your family and friends circles would appreciate it. if not, then I hope I meet less men like you, and more like the ones in my circle

cheers.

Tropo a man? 5555 Nice one MIG you should have popped that one in the jokes section

Good luck to you and keep on pushing for what you know is only right.

Cheers.

[luckyluke]

This thread isn't about women's rights or feminism. It's about the fundamental basic human right not to be subjected to rape, particularly by someone you are married to - or rather, the fact that Thai lawmakers seem to think this scenario is OK. It's not OK for anyone to be raped - man or woman.

Many thanks November Rain,it is just what i wanted to express,but my english is not quiet so good.

[StateSix]

even the rape laws in the uk are far from perfect (although a million times better than here), it is basically the only crime in which you are guilty of first until proven innocent. If their are no obvious signs of violence when an alleged rape has taken place, i too would not like to be the judge.

BB

You are wrong there. Anyone accused of rape is still innocent until proven guilty, it is for the prosecution to show that rape has occured, not for the defendant to prove it hasn't.

There is a crime where you are guilty until proven innocent, but I can't think what it is at the moment.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

And as for "Living in a Man's World" as it was put earlier by another poster. I agree the laws here in Thailand are certainly male dominated. However any historian will tell you Freedom is never Free. If Thai women want equal rights bad enough they will have to stand up and fight for them like their sisters abroad. No body is just going to give someone their freedom... it must be earned, often fought for, bleed for, died for even. Thai women apparently aren't ready for that yet. Though one day perhaps, but obviously not today. I guess they need to be more willing to stand up against their parents before they are ready to tackle political change.

Just interested - when in history did men stand up and fight , bleed & die for their rights? I'm not talking race or religion or class fights here, just as you aren't about women, I'm talking when did men as a gender have to fight to get their rights? Never, as far as I know. Somebody "just gave them their freedom". Funny that.

Also, how do you know Thai women aren't ready for this yet? Have you done a survey? Research? Or are you just generalising?

This thread isn't about women's rights or feminism. It's about the fundamental basic human right not to be subjected to rape, particularly by someone you are married to - or rather, the fact that Thai lawmakers seem to think this scenario is OK. It's not OK for anyone to be raped - man or woman.

I understand the sensitive nature of topic and your latent hostility to anyone whom you feel is defending violence against women. I however am not. As for men defending or fighting for their rights....please this is by far the most primal struggle of man kind. From the very beginning we have fought first against nature and the elements just to simply survive. Going back to our beginning as we took the role of the hunter gatherer. Is eating a right? Do you have to earn the right not to starve to death? Then it was and then it was men winning the right for his people to live and prosper. Men fought, against nature, hostile environments, illness and most harshly, each other to earn his freedom to prosper and grow. And we still do.

Like it or not, Truth is not always a pleasure to behold, but it is no less the Truth. Freedom is not free, anyone, man or woman, who is being oppressed, will not know it with out having earned it.

Now weather or not Thai women as a group have started fighting against this type of inequity, I would bet they have, have they fought hard and or smart enough for it....well I'll let that judgment to be made by the individual beholders. For me it's pretty much a mote point, though I wish them luck and may the Goddess bless their struggle and see that it bear fruit more palatable that it has thus far.

[November Rain]

And as for "Living in a Man's World" as it was put earlier by another poster. I agree the laws here in Thailand are certainly male dominated. However any historian will tell you Freedom is never Free. If Thai women want equal rights bad enough they will have to stand up and fight for them like their sisters abroad. No body is just going to give someone their freedom... it must be earned, often fought for, bleed for, died for even. Thai women apparently aren't ready for that yet. Though one day perhaps, but obviously not today. I guess they need to be more willing to stand up against their parents before they are ready to tackle political change.

Just interested - when in history did men stand up and fight , bleed & die for their rights? I'm not talking race or religion or class fights here, just as you aren't about women, I'm talking when did men as a gender have to fight to get their rights? Never, as far as I know. Somebody "just gave them their freedom". Funny that.

Also, how do you know Thai women aren't ready for this yet? Have you done a survey? Research? Or are you just generalising?

This thread isn't about women's rights or feminism. It's about the fundamental basic human right not to be subjected to rape, particularly by someone you are married to - or rather, the fact that Thai lawmakers seem to think this scenario is OK. It's not OK for anyone to be raped - man or woman.

I understand the sensitive nature of topic and your latent hostility to anyone whom you feel is defending violence against women. I however am not. As for men defending or fighting for their rights....please this is by far the most primal struggle of man kind. From the very beginning we have fought first against nature and the elements just to simply survive. Going back to our beginning as we took the role of the hunter gatherer. Is eating a right? Do you have to earn the right not to starve to death? Then it was and then it was men winning the right for his people to live and prosper. Men fought, against nature, hostile environments, illness and most harshly, each other to earn his freedom to prosper and grow. And we still do.

Like it or not, Truth is not always a pleasure to behold, but it is no less the Truth. Freedom is not free, anyone, man or woman, who is being oppressed, will not know it with out having earned it.

Now weather or not Thai women as a group have started fighting against this type of inequity, I would bet they have, have they fought hard and or smart enough for it....well I'll let that judgment to be made by the individual beholders. For me it's pretty much a mote point, though I wish them luck and may the Goddess bless their struggle and see that it bear fruit more palatable that it has thus far.

Please don't make me out to be a militant feminist. I'm not. I don't even think I'd class myself as a feminist, per se. I just have this annoying trait that forces me to challenge bs when I hear (read) it, be it from man or woman. And I still think you're talking bs. Going back to prehistory, hunter gatherers - oh, c'mon. First of all, pre history means just that "before written documentation". Yes, a lot has been gleaned from cave drawings & remains, but you cannot tell me as a certainty that men suffered & challenged the elements to find the food while the women sat & filed their nails (or the prehistoric equivalent)

And as for freedom having to be fought for, when did you last have to fight against oppression (as a man, not any other factors which may or may not affect you)? As a woman, I haven't. The suffragettes did my fighting for me 100 years ago. I am in the enviable position now of not really having to regard my gender as regards my rights or what I am entitled to. I read that in the last US election an alarming amount of women didn't even bother to vote, such is the complacency of those who have had their rights won for them & don't need to bother now. Women, as a gender, have had those rights for perhaps a century, men since prehistory.

I have no latent hostility towards you, I just think in this instance you're talking bs. And being extremely patronising; the Goddess??? OMG!

Sorry, LL. I've taken this terribly and, as I said before, I know this topic has nothing to do with feminism - it's my annoying trait again. Sorry!

[jamman]

Women raping men ? what a joke.

Something like that happened to me once. She was strong enough to hold me down and ride me on top. Embarrasing to admit it - I guess I was out of shape at the time.

And sure, of course a woman can rape a man - just because you get hard doesn't mean you consent. I suspect that at times a woman being raped also gets wet.