Enforcement Of 90 Out Of 180 Days

[dseawarrior]

" ... With very kind regards,

Francie L"

How refreshing to read Francie L's post: rational, reasonable, reliable.

a breath of fresh air.

thanks!

I agree! Way to go, Francie!

Hip hip hooray!

dseawarrior

[ramidin]

This is my first post so please be gently.

I come to Thialand every month (from Aistralia) as part of a business consulting group in IT services. I spend from 2 to 30 days in Thailand but usually 5 to 12 days. Have been doing this for 4 years and have always used the 30day Visa on arrival.

I have been waiting to see how they are going to enforce the 90 out of 180 day limit of stay usng the 30 day visa on arrival as Icould be affacted.

Arrived last night at the airport (25th JAN), nearly 4 months into the new system. Thought it may have been automated - how wrong I was.

The immigration official lokked at my passport and saw the mant entries to Thailadn in the past - she asked me how many days I had spend in Thailand since the 1st of October and I said "about 60". She then went through the passport and identified all the entries and exits since the 1st of October 2006. She added up the days and came to 64 - therefore I was not granted a 30 days visa but a visa which expires in 26 days.

So a few points to note -

- The enforcment of the 90 in 180 days is as per expected and was fair as per the guidelines I understood.

- The is no elcectronic system to automatically calulate the days used or left in the 180 days period.

- The days are counted as per entries in the passport - if you have two passports then I asume you could use two to stay on two lots of "90 out of 180" and be here the whole time - although illegally.

- It is VERY time consuming - it took a good 15 minutes for her to go through my passport and annoyed the people waiting behind me in the line.

- Adding to the time was the issue that typically Thai immigration officers do not put stamps in a chronoloigal order so she had to go thriugh my passport from page 1 to page 64 to check for all entries from Oct 1.

Cheers,

Mike

Mike why on earth are you putting yourself through all this ? if you are regularly coming here for genuine business purposes and you have

an Austrian passport plus you don't have any criminal record - you should be eligible for an APEC Buiness Travel Card.

This will solve all your problems plus you get to use special lanes at immigration - in some countries it's the diplomatic channel Lane !

I must warn you it will take up to a year to get all your clearances for all 17 participating countries ( the People's Republic of China

takes athe longest ) but you could get an interim card in far shorter time. for places like Thailand they usually only take 8 to 10 weeks

to give you their clearence. I'm telling you in your situation it would be a real investment !

Mike

Get yourself a multple entry Non_B business visa, most home country consulates turn them round over night with a minimum of fuss.

It is worth the application once a year................

[djc45]

I just can not understand why so many people who visit Thailand frequently just don’t get the one year multi ‘0’entry visa come in and out as many times as you like with no problems 90 days at a time

[jberwick]

I hadn't noticed that was an option until you mentioned it, that's why! But now that I see it is an option I'll be sure to try to get one the next time I am in my home country, thanks for pointing it out! Cheers

I just can not understand why so many people who visit Thailand frequently just don't get the one year multi '0'entry visa come in and out as many times as you like with no problems 90 days at a time

[Hollywood]

Hi all,

I am a bit confused about the changes and also about what visas I may be eligible for... perhaps someone here can give me some advice based on my situation... I'd appreciate it.

I am in my mid-30's and have done quite well in business... I don't really need to work to have money as my own investments give me a good income.

I am a Canadian citizen but have no interest in ever living in Canada again... I much prefer to just travel the world... however, over the last year I have really liked Thailand a lot and have spent a lot of time there.

I like it so much that I have begun to look at buying a condo in Bangkok... but this news on the visa changes worries me... I'd like to be able to live in Thailand most of the year (ie. more than 180 days)... I never minded having to leave Thailand every 30 days too much because there are so many fun places to visit a short, and fairly cheap, flight away that I didn't mind.

But if I understand correctly, now I absolutely cannot stay in Thailand more than 90 days every 180 days, correct?

If so, do I have any options given my situation? Would buying a place in Thailand give me any special status?

I've read on this site about the 'investor visa'... while I am considering maybe opening a nightclub in Bangkok, I am a long way away from that changing from an idea into a reality... and even if I did, I wouldn't want to spend the $8m baht+ that is required to get this visa.

Am I eligible for any other visa?

I have a thai gf that I really like... I hate marriage and would never do it, but if I were to go and sign a paper somewhere saying I married her, would that change anything?

It is too bad that us humans have banded into tribes and regulated our own lives so much that one cannot just live where they want to live... people talk about 'freedom' but then they put up walls, borders, police and regulations to keep people they don't "like" out... it's ridiculous... but that is for another post at another time.

In the meantime, can anyone give me any advice on how I may be able to spend a good portion of my time in Thailand without being put in jail?

Thanks!

Hello

If I were in your position I would hire Sunbelt Asia to handle everything. If you have been following this topic over the past few months you can see it is best handled by professionals.

Enjoy Thailand.

[kogrutter]

I thought I would have a short stay and used a tourist visa upon entry. Well, Thailand being Thailand, I wound up using the three thirty day visas I was allowed. I hustled back to the States and applied at the DC Thai embassy and was granted a one year multiple entry, virtually overnight. Cost $125.00USD. I'm coming back on the next bus but would like to know if selling to the Thai government at their invitation requires a work permit along with my Class B visa?

[djc45]

the cost of a one year multi entry visa will work out cheaper in the long run and if you re enter just befor you year is up you get an exit date 90 days from your last entry so in effect nearly 15months on a one year multi

Edited January 26, 2007 by djc45

[jj2]

If I count the days I am here since October 1st its 97. And I just got a 30 day extension at the immigration office. This makes it 127 days within a 148 days period (21 days outside Thailand in almost 5 month). 2 entries at airport 30 days, 1 two month tourist visa, plus a 30 day extension.

[tropo]

If I count the days I am here since October 1st its 97. And I just got a 30 day extension at the immigration office. This makes it 127 days within a 148 days period (21 days outside Thailand in almost 5 month). 2 entries at airport 30 days, 1 two month tourist visa, plus a 30 day extension.

I just got a 30 day extension at the Immigration Office myself extending my stay until February 27. This adds up to almost 5 months from October 1 on a tourist visa. As it was a 3 entry visa, I'm entitled to exit and return one more time before it expires on Feb 22 if I wish.

[kiakaha]

This is my first post so please be gently.

I come to Thialand every month (from Aistralia) as part of a business consulting group in IT services. I spend from 2 to 30 days in Thailand but usually 5 to 12 days. Have been doing this for 4 years and have always used the 30day Visa on arrival.

I have been waiting to see how they are going to enforce the 90 out of 180 day limit of stay usng the 30 day visa on arrival as Icould be affacted.

Arrived last night at the airport (25th JAN), nearly 4 months into the new system. Thought it may have been automated - how wrong I was.

The immigration official lokked at my passport and saw the mant entries to Thailadn in the past - she asked me how many days I had spend in Thailand since the 1st of October and I said "about 60". She then went through the passport and identified all the entries and exits since the 1st of October 2006. She added up the days and came to 64 - therefore I was not granted a 30 days visa but a visa which expires in 26 days.

So a few points to note -

- The enforcment of the 90 in 180 days is as per expected and was fair as per the guidelines I understood.

- The is no elcectronic system to automatically calulate the days used or left in the 180 days period.

- The days are counted as per entries in the passport - if you have two passports then I asume you could use two to stay on two lots of "90 out of 180" and be here the whole time - although illegally.

- It is VERY time consuming - it took a good 15 minutes for her to go through my passport and annoyed the people waiting behind me in the line.

- Adding to the time was the issue that typically Thai immigration officers do not put stamps in a chronoloigal order so she had to go thriugh my passport from page 1 to page 64 to check for all entries from Oct 1.

Cheers,

Mike

Mike why on earth are you putting yourself through all this ? if you are regularly coming here for genuine business purposes and you have

an Austrian passport plus you don't have any criminal record - you should be eligible for an APEC Buiness Travel Card.

This will solve all your problems plus you get to use special lanes at immigration - in some countries it's the diplomatic channel Lane !

I must warn you it will take up to a year to get all your clearances for all 17 participating countries ( the People's Republic of China

takes athe longest ) but you could get an interim card in far shorter time. for places like Thailand they usually only take 8 to 10 weeks

to give you their clearence. I'm telling you in your situation it would be a real investment !

Currently the clearances for Brunei,Phillipines and Thailand are taking the longest.

FYI : the card is not for every tom,dick and harry who wants it, there are eligibility constraints :

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/business/apec/eligibility.htm

[Etherus]

If you are coming so often AND on business, get a 1 year multiple entry visa in Aus and have no issues at all. A tourist visa as I understand it is just that, it is not the immigration that are being especially picky, it sounds like you have tried to do it on the cheap. Try to go the other way and get into Aus on the same basis.

I can't see what your fuss is op.

[kayata]

Get on this,

Went to Philipines for a session away from the wife (don't dirty on your own doorstep)! Came back thought great only 6 people in queue. What a nightmare, 1 hour later I managed to get to the imigration desk. (Now I explain I have a work permit and a 1 year multiple entry non imigrant b visa, had for last 5 years). Now the immigration lady says, you've been in thailand to long we are refusing you entry. I went what, I live and work here pay my taxes and dues, she says sorry you'll have to go to the office over yon to speak to the main immigration officer, so another hour later get seen by chief immigration officer and he took my passport and says why have you come here, you should be through the other side. I said its about time you got some decent staff on that knows what they are doing and capable of doing, and explained that I already missed a very important meeting.

Just a slip of the hic can cause big problems, but I had to queue up for 3 hours, an get no sorry for the hiccups they made.

[tropo]

If I count the days I am here since October 1st its 97. And I just got a 30 day extension at the immigration office. This makes it 127 days within a 148 days period (21 days outside Thailand in almost 5 month). 2 entries at airport 30 days, 1 two month tourist visa, plus a 30 day extension.

I just got a 30 day extension at the Immigration Office myself extending my stay until February 27. This adds up to almost 5 months from October 1 on a tourist visa. As it was a 3 entry visa, I'm entitled to exit and return one more time before it expires on Feb 22 if I wish. My Filipino GF also received her extension no questioned asked.

If they're restricting all tourist stays to 90 days, why were we so easily extended after having already been here 4 months since October 1?

[btate]

^ Maybe because you have a valid "VISA" and not just a free 30 day on entry.

Looks like the intent of the law is to rid the country of the many 30 day runners.

Those skirting the visa rules and living here without any official recognition are the

folks they are after.

[hagler]

If you are legitimately entering Thialnd for business reasons as often as you say you are then you can solve all your problems and get yourself an APEC card. Gives you 3 years multiple entry and no visa requirements to all countries that are members of APEC ( that includes Thailand). It also means that you have your own very fast customs line just for APEC card holders at all airports. Cant see why you wouldnt have one already if you are legimately doing that much business travel in Asia.

[aussimike]

I am curious. I gather from your post you are visiting Thailand for work related purposes.

Can this be done with the 30 day visa on arrival?

When you mark your incoming passenger card do you mark the reason for the visit "Holiday" or "Business"?

If you mark "Business" do they ask for more detail and from having many vists wonder why you dont have a work permit?

If you declare you come on a holiday couldnt they do you over if you were found to be working?

I'm not sure on the rules or definitions but am keen to learn for my future plans

Good point as more than 45% of visitors to thailand are actually here on business -- meeting, incentives, etc - not the normal tourist - so if they are arriving and and I know of many who are paid as guest speakers, uni lecturers etc and just doing business, trading or what ever instead of visiting walking street n Pattaya , and whether it be on a entry permit if from a country with waiver agreement such as Aust and thus get in with entry permit stamp (correct not a visa) or visa on arrival they would be on tourist visas and thus illegal. whats the standing on this if they are in fact working, consulting, etc. Be interesting to know the thinking on this on - also one of my staff who has used up her 3 X 30 days tourist stamps has just returned from Penang and got a 60 day tourist visa - no problems = -

[Phuket Dragon]

The Thai Government looks at each visa (in your case, 90 days) as an entity unto itself and therefore you must show in your passport by stamps that you have exited Thailand and entered another country

FranCiel Europeans get not stampt in or out in the European union so when we fly to Europe and back to Thailand it don't show we entered another country.

Dragon

[Sunny Valentine]

Good point as more than 45% of visitors to thailand are actually here on business -- meeting, incentives, etc - not the normal tourist -

Could you let us know from where you gathered this percentage?

Sunny

[chinthai]

if you have two passports then I asume you could use two to stay on two lots of "90 out of 180" and be here the whole time

do not think, that it is possible to travel with two passports and the immigration don´t know it.

My wife have two passports (one Thai and one German).

3 years ago, she traveled with the German Passport, then we start to move to Thailand and she changed to the Thai-Passport.

Last year we fly to K.L and she did show her Thai Passport to the immigration on the Airport/ Chiang Mai.

The officer looked in his computer and ask she for the German Passport. After she show him this passport, he checked this shortly and

then he start to talk with my wife.

He know all about her travels, overstay etc.

If you show your second passort, it is possible that he asked you for the another one.

[aussimike]

Good point as more than 45% of visitors to thailand are actually here on business -- meeting, incentives, etc - not the normal tourist -

Could you let us know from where you gathered this percentage?

Sunny

sure happy to - from the stats department of TAT - and if you dont know who that is - THE TOURISM AUTHORITY OF THAILAND and if you want any more info let me know -=-

you really dont think that the Thai hotel just cater for tourist - in fact most of the decent hotels in Bkk are geared to the business traveller more than tourists ---

[thaipulse]

the cost of a one year multi entry visa will work out cheaper in the long run and if you re enter just befor you year is up you get an exit date 90 days from your last entry so in effect nearly 15months on a one year multi

DJC45 -

Is this right? I have a single re-entry non-immig b visa for teaching that is to expire march 31 2007. If I leave and return just before March 31st - they will give me a 90 day visa that doesn't count toward my 30 day -30 day -30 day tourist visas I can get when this non-imm b expires?

That'd be great news - can everyone get that? Anyone done it yet?

[aussimike]

Good point as more than 45% of visitors to thailand are actually here on business -- meeting, incentives, etc - not the normal tourist -

Could you let us know from where you gathered this percentage?

Sunny

i do believe that TAT's figure are accurate = they have enought people working in their stats depart, so i hope they are though they might be a full year behind in producing them and they get the head counts from Thai Immigration - not just random counts on they own behalf - these are also broken down into length of stay - money spent per head per day - quite detailed information - this is what is used but all related agencies -

Also are you aware of the definication of a tourist according the the UN - its a person who travels away from home and stays more then one nite and less than one year ---

[wabisabi]

I also experienced the counting of days, I just could not believe it. After three months, two trips to Immigration, and three Thai embassies, it was properly explained that it is NOT the number of stamps on your passport, but the total number of days. If this was only clarified on the Immigration or Ministry of Foreign Affairs website.

Agreed that this new policy is very inefficient, especially for Thai Immigration. The problem could possibly be solved with a 60-90 day visa on arrival and/or a multiple entry visa to be purchased outside of Thailand. It is still my understanding that it is not possible to get a multiple entry tourist visa for Thailand anywhere.

It baffles the mind.

[AndyCanfield]

The immigration official ... added up the days.

This is great. They leave you flexibility in how you arrange your time. My plan "B" is to spend two weeks in Thailand, two weeks outside of Thailand. Seems like it will work. I've been worried about that.

Of course, make it easy for them. Hand the officer a spreadsheet showing every in date, out date, and duration, and the duration sum, including page number references into your passport.

Won't be long before the computer adds it up.

[icecubes]

the cost of a one year multi entry visa will work out cheaper in the long run and if you re enter just befor you year is up you get an exit date 90 days from your last entry so in effect nearly 15months on a one year multi

With all due respect I don’t see how travelling to your home country to obtain

A one year multi entry visa would be cheap.

I would put the cost at over a thousand pounds.

Including the Air line ticket.

Accommodation for 2 days minimum, this could easily become three days.

(trying to do it all in a day, would be a bit mad)

Taxis, bus or train train tickets to and from the consulate and back to the airport.

Or even a hire car.

Food for two days.

Cost of the visa.

I would put that at over a grand, not so cheap form my point of view.

I bet I have missed some other expenses out.

BTW, this could end up 5 days with the flight times, so Thailand has lost

5 days of money I would have spent in the country.

but I do feel if people are travelling back to there home countries for a visa

More money will go down the plug hole, for Thailand. as they will stay even longer one or two weeks to say hello to friends and family. (More money lost) (smart move that one)

It’s a similar thing with people travelling out to get double and single entry visas in

Countries close to Thailand. The money is still going out of Thailand.

Amazing Thailand.

i do feel this 30 stamp thing will get reviewed at some point in time.

Have a nice day.

[PeaceBlondie]

the cost of a one year multi entry visa will work out cheaper in the long run and if you re enter just befor you year is up you get an exit date 90 days from your last entry so in effect nearly 15months on a one year multi

DJC45 -

Is this right? I have a single re-entry non-immig b visa for teaching that is to expire march 31 2007. If I leave and return just before March 31st - they will give me a 90 day visa that doesn't count toward my 30 day -30 day -30 day tourist visas I can get when this non-imm b expires?

That'd be great news - can everyone get that? Anyone done it yet?

That refers to a multiple entry visa, not to a single entry. Many of us stretched a one year multi-entry out to 14 months, but we had multi's.

[falux]

I think it is madness no matter what.

If it is such a huss,and if they want to change the code ,what they did for visa free enrty.

Why not just give a 2 or 3 month visa free to all farangs.A lot of them will extend there holidays.

Like malaysia where you get a 60 or 90 day free stay.A lot of problems finihed ,and what do you think about all the time consuming work the imm has got to do,still bananarepublic over here.I love it don't understand me wrong ,just getting tired too many right now....

Ever wondered why the tourist visa has a bad reputation? Because hundreds, if not thousands use them to live and work here, without bothering to pay taxes. I don't think that's Ok, and I'm glad to see Thais take action. If you knew what trouble my company and me go through every year to get me that Non-B visa, you'd know why I think it's a good thing.

[astral]

Is this right? I have a single re-entry non-immig b visa for teaching that is to expire march 31 2007. If I leave and return just before March 31st - they will give me a 90 day visa that doesn't count toward my 30 day -30 day -30 day tourist visas I can get when this non-imm b expires?

That'd be great news - can everyone get that? Anyone done it yet?

If you have a single entry visa and you are a teacher, then you should have a work permit and

then you can extend your visa for one year based on the work permit.

To get another 90 days Non Imm B visa you will have apply at an overseas consulate, and you may well

find that path blocked................

Working without a Work Permit and correct visa will land you in the IDC, not a pleasant place!!

[tropo]

Ever wondered why the tourist visa has a bad reputation?

Bad reputation with who?

Edited January 27, 2007 by tropo

[brahmburgers]

Here's the formula for Thai visas:

complicated system + subjective interpretations by imm.workers + intentional difficulty ingrained within the regulations + bias toward well attired foreigners + mutable regulations, depending on which Thai consulate/embassy one deals with + language barrier = a system that, even with an large busy website devoted to it, with hundreds of intelligent (debatable, perhaps) participants trying valiantly to decipher it, is still a tangle of mutable weirdness.

Hello Thai Immigration Dept bosses! Please, please, please implement (at least) a remotely fair-minded system that's not aggravatingly complicated, hopelessly hamstrung by subjective interpretations and changes day by day. There's nothing to be gained by instating a system that discriminates against single people, against people under 50, and well-meaning foreigners who would gladly contribute positively to Thailand. Each foreigner that's turned away by the byzantine giordian knot of visa ridiculousness, is a loss to Thailand of roughly 1 million baht per year of outside money. Economists tell us that each baht spent in Thailand circulates approx 6 times before it's socked away in banks or real estate, So if (for example) half a million foreigners decide to live elsewhere (rather than grapple with endlessly complicated regulations), that's roughly 108 trillion baht of outside money that doesn't get brought in to and spent in Thailand. Money isn't everything, for sure, and contributions by foreigners to good causes (volunteers, English teachers, goodwill gestures, charities) could arguably be more valuable for the Thai people in the long run.