Saudi crown prince says Israelis have right to their own land

[webfact]

Saudi crown prince says Israelis have right to their own land

 

FILE PHOTO: Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud is seen during a meeting with U.N Secretary-General Antonio Guterres at the United Nations headquarters in the Manhattan borough of New York City, New York, U.S. March 27, 2018. REUTERS/Amir Levy/File Photo

 

RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's crown prince said Israelis are entitled to live peacefully on their own land in an interview published on Monday in U.S. magazine The Atlantic, another public sign of ties between Riyadh and Tel Aviv appearing to grow closer.

 

Asked if he believes the Jewish people have a right to a nation-state in at least part of their ancestral homeland, Mohammed bin Salman was quoted as saying:

 

"I believe the Palestinians and the Israelis have the right to have their own land. But we have to have a peace agreement to assure the stability for everyone and to have normal relations."

 

Saudi Arabia - birthplace of Islam and home to its holiest shrines - does not recognise Israel. It has maintained for years that normalizing relations hinges on Israeli withdrawal from Arab lands captured in the 1967 Middle East war, territory Palestinians seek for a future state.

 

"We have religious concerns about the fate of the holy mosque in Jerusalem and about the rights of the Palestinian people. This is what we have. We don't have any objection against any other people," said Prince Mohammed who is touring the United States to drum up investments and support for his efforts to contain Iranian influence.

 

Increased tension between Tehran and Riyadh has fuelled speculation that shared interests may push Saudi Arabia and Israel to work together against what they see as a common Iranian threat.

 

"There are a lot of interests we share with Israel and if there is peace, there would be a lot of interest between Israel and the Gulf Cooperation Council countries", Prince Mohammed added.

 

Saudi Arabia opened its airspace for the first time to a commercial flight to Israel last month, which an Israeli official hailed as historic following two years of efforts.

 

In November, an Israeli cabinet member disclosed covert contacts with Saudi Arabia, a rare acknowledgment of long-rumoured secret dealings which Riyadh still denies.

 

Saudi Arabia condemned U.S. President Donald Trump's move to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel last year, but Arab officials told Reuters at the time that Riyadh appears to be on board with a broader U.S. strategy for an Israeli-Palestinian peace plan still in its early phases of development.

 

(Reporting by Stephen Kalin; Editing by Robin Pomeroy)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-04-03

[ezzra]

What a bombshell !!!! i'm sure that this statement will no go down well

with many, many people around the world, least the Palestinians, Iran,

BDS and their ilks, and oh yeah, as well as a bunch of esteemed members of this forum....

Edited April 2, 2018 by ezzra

[Kiwiken]

Saudi Arabia like Israel is a major Buyer of US arms. No matter how many American deaths they cause or human rights violations they are Birds of a feather. Of course they will snuggle up together

[HLover]

4 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

Saudi Arabia like Israel is a major Buyer of US arms. No matter how many American deaths they cause or human rights violations they are Birds of a feather. Of course they will snuggle up together

The best friends murderous money can buy.

[JOC]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

What a bombshell !!!! i'm sure that this statement will no go down well

with many, many people around the world, least the Palestinians, Iran,

BDS and their ilks, and oh yeah, as well as a bunch of esteemed members of this forum....

Happy days are here !!!!

Israel has been recognized by a stone age regime......Yes I know they have got all the impressive infrastructure, that money can buy....but mentally they are still light years behind....

Have the feeling that 2018 will be a good year for Israel...They might even gain the support of the Taliban....

Edited April 3, 2018 by JOC

[kamahele]

The Saudis and Israelis are not so secretly joined together in their fight against Iran. Strange bedfellows.

[lvr181]

All the deviousness of religion and politics of the Middle East. 

 

Sunni vs Shiite vs Judaism? 

[geriatrickid]

And now we know why Erdogan is  spouting off. Missed this before. Erdogan will be staking out his position while The KSA sets up an attack with the UAE on Iran where they  use Israel to take out the Iranian nukes.  The Arabs are not as dumb or as backward as people think they are. They lived for centuries under the oppressive rule of   the Turks, who were replaced  by Europeans, They know what occupation is and they can  manage the Israelis.   The people to watch are the Egyptians and Jordanians now. Sisi has won an election. If the KSA asks for Egyptian help we may see some bold moves never seen before with Egypt reasserting its traditional role as leader of pan Arabism in the region, all financed by KSA.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Saudi Arabia like Israel is a major Buyer of US arms. No matter how many American deaths they cause or human rights violations they are Birds of a feather. Of course they will snuggle up together

 

The usual baiting nonsense bit seems obligatory, oh well...like you give two figs about.

As for "snuggle up together" - perhaps you need to hone your comprehension skills? The interview represent a departure from previous positions and policies, which were far from "snuggling up together".

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

An off topic troll post has been removed

[Morch]

2 hours ago, JOC said:

Happy days are here !!!!

Israel has been recognized by a stone age regime......Yes I know they have got all the impressive infrastructure, that money can buy....but mentally they are still light years behind....

Have the feeling that 2018 will be a good year for Israel...They might even gain the support of the Taliban....

 

There was no official recognition, and I don't think there will be one without an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement.

 

As for denigrating Saudi Arabia, that's all very well - but two things to bear in mind:

 

A. Can't recall the same with regard to the support such regimes (including Saudi Arabia) afforded to the Palestinians.  

      

B. Any peace agreement in the Middle East will essentially involve such regimes, but posters do not often raise such objections regarding peace in the Middle East.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Morch

[Grouse]

Iran needs to build up its forces including a nuclear deterrent to balance the nut cases in the region. The UK sells weaponry to KSA, why not 100 Typhoons for Iran?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

And now we know why Erdogan is  spouting off. Missed this before. Erdogan will be staking out his position while The KSA sets up an attack with the UAE on Iran where they  use Israel to take out the Iranian nukes.  The Arabs are not as dumb or as backward as people think they are. They lived for centuries under the oppressive rule of   the Turks, who were replaced  by Europeans, They know what occupation is and they can  manage the Israelis.   The people to watch are the Egyptians and Jordanians now. Sisi has won an election. If the KSA asks for Egyptian help we may see some bold moves never seen before with Egypt reasserting its traditional role as leader of pan Arabism in the region, all financed by KSA.

 

Do you have anything, whatsoever, to support these predictions of grand plans?

 

Israel "taking out Iranian nukes" (which, by the way, do not actually exist) is a rather far-fetched scenario. Doing so in tandem with Saudi Arabia and the UAE, at this time is extremely unlikely. Most Arab countries are quite backward, past Ottoman rule or not. The elections in Egypt were pretty much uncontested, but voter turnout was low (Sisi actually won less votes than the last time around). Egypt re-asserting itself as leader of pan-Arabism? Egypt's economy is in a bad shape, Egypt's domestic security is in a bad shape. Jordan - why would anyone watch Jordan? Other than as a potential flashpoint for the next extreme Islamic episode?

 

 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Iran needs to build up its forces including a nuclear deterrent to balance the nut cases in the region. The UK sells weaponry to KSA, why not 100 Typhoons for Iran?

 

If it came down to Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, put your money on the former. As for "nut cases", some would include Iranian hardliners on the list. Why would the the UK sell arms to a country which attacked it's embassy, and harasses its citizens? And no, pandering to simplistic political views is not a good enough rationale.

[ezzra]

3 hours ago, JOC said:

Happy days are here !!!!

Israel has been recognized by a stone age regime......Yes I know they have got all the impressive infrastructure, that money can buy....but mentally they are still light years behind....

Have the feeling that 2018 will be a good year for Israel...They might even gain the support of the Taliban....

Well yeah... indeed, very happy days...and with John Bolton at Trump's side,

who knows, the sky is the limit....

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Well yeah... indeed, very happy days...and with John Bolton at Trump's side,

who knows, the sky is the limit....

 

Putting John Bolton, and "sky is the limit" could be interpreted in quite scary ways.

[geriatrickid]

55 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Do you have anything, whatsoever, to support these predictions of grand plans?

 

Israel "taking out Iranian nukes" (which, by the way, do not actually exist) is a rather far-fetched scenario. Doing so in tandem with Saudi Arabia and the UAE, at this time is extremely unlikely. Most Arab countries are quite backward, past Ottoman rule or not. The elections in Egypt were pretty much uncontested, but voter turnout was low (Sisi actually won less votes than the last time around). Egypt re-asserting itself as leader of pan-Arabism? Egypt's economy is in a bad shape, Egypt's domestic security is in a bad shape. Jordan - why would anyone watch Jordan? Other than as a potential flashpoint for the next extreme Islamic episode?

 

 

The airforce of the UAE is not backward. It is a highly trained professional force that honed its skills in the Libyan war. The KSA airforce is equipped with state of the art equipment and has received extensive training from the USA and UK. Both the KSA and UAE  will not accept the ongoing nuclear ambitions of  Iran and they know that Iran is  still seeking nuclear weapons with the assistance of Pakistan and North Korea.  The Saudis are politically astute not to take on Iran directly, but will gladly help the enemy of its enemy attack and do the dirty work, under the blessing of the USA and the hypocritical hand wringing of the EU.

 

Egypt has always  held ambitions of  leadership of the arab world. It has the largest standing army and still has influence. The Pan Arabism goes back to Nasser and  saw a brief revival under Sadat. Sisi  has said he wants to bring it back and has repeatedly challenged Erdogan in respect to who speaks for the Arab world. Sissi is looking for an opportunity to show his leadership skills to the Arab world. Keep in mind that the ongoing dispute with Qatar isn't getting  any better and both Egypt and Jordan supported the KSA and UAE in their quarrel with Qatar. Look at who is supporting  KSA in the war in Yemen; the Saudi Arabia led coalition of Arab states includes Kuwait, the UAE, Bahrain, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan and Senegal. Egypt even offered to deploy 40,000 ground troops in Yemen but the Saudis said no. The war in Yemen is a proxy war  against Iran.

 

You dismiss Jordan, but I remind you that it is a country that acts as a conduit between Israel and the Arab world. It also is the go between  between some arab countries and the USA. Jordan holds a large number of the Syrian refugees and is frustrated by Iranian involvement in  Syria. Don't forget that Iran's support of extremist Palestinian groups in Lebanon   has caused and continues to cause problems for Jordan.

 

And don't lose sight of the fact that Arabs and Persians don't mix too well.There is a pecking order of prejudice in that region just as there is in Europe and the Americas. Iran is a threat to the KSA and the KSA will do whatever it takes to be rid of the Iranians. Whatever hatred the Saudis have for Israel, they know that Israel has no interest of overthrowing the government nor in spreading the shiite religion. If the KSA throws the Israelis a bone, the Israelis will take it because it plays to their need of substantiated legitimacy. The Israelis will take whatever they can get despite their arrogance to the contrary.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

The airforce of the UAE is not backward. It is a highly trained professional force that honed its skills in the Libyan war. The KSA airforce is equipped with state of the art equipment and has received extensive training from the USA and UK. Both the KSA and UAE  will not accept the ongoing nuclear ambitions of  Iran and they know that Iran is  still seeking nuclear weapons with the assistance of Pakistan and North Korea.  The Saudis are politically astute not to take on Iran directly, but will gladly help the enemy of its enemy attack and do the dirty work, under the blessing of the USA and the hypocritical hand wringing of the EU.

 

Egypt has always  held ambitions of  leadership of the arab world. It has the largest standing army and still has influence. The Pan Arabism goes back to Nasser and  saw a brief revival under Sadat. Sisi  has said he wants to bring it back and has repeatedly challenged Erdogan in respect to who speaks for the Arab world. Sissi is looking for an opportunity to show his leadership skills to the Arab world. Keep in mind that the ongoing dispute with Qatar isn't getting  any better and both Egypt and Jordan supported the KSA and UAE in their quarrel with Qatar. Look at who is supporting  KSA in the war in Yemen; the Saudi Arabia led coalition of Arab states includes Kuwait, the UAE, Bahrain, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan and Senegal. Egypt even offered to deploy 40,000 ground troops in Yemen but the Saudis said no. The war in Yemen is a proxy war  against Iran.

 

You dismiss Jordan, but I remind you that it is a country that acts as a conduit between Israel and the Arab world. It also is the go between  between some arab countries and the USA. Jordan holds a large number of the Syrian refugees and is frustrated by Iranian involvement in  Syria. Don't forget that Iran's support of extremist Palestinian groups in Lebanon   has caused and continues to cause problems for Jordan.

 

And don't lose sight of the fact that Arabs and Persians don't mix too well.There is a pecking order of prejudice in that region just as there is in Europe and the Americas. Iran is a threat to the KSA and the KSA will do whatever it takes to be rid of the Iranians. Whatever hatred the Saudis have for Israel, they know that Israel has no interest of overthrowing the government nor in spreading the shiite religion. If the KSA throws the Israelis a bone, the Israelis will take it because it plays to their need of substantiated legitimacy. The Israelis will take whatever they can get despite their arrogance to the contrary.

 

No one said anything about the UAE's air force being "backward". The reference, in both your post and my reply was a general one, and in relation to Arabs/Arab countries.

 

As for your high regard for relevant countries air forces, may I point out that they are both not particularly effective nor showing a whole lot of skills down in Yemen? No one contests that both are armed to the teeth with great equipment, but that still doesn't make them quite what you advertise.

 

The UAE and Saudi Arabia "not accepting" Iran's nuclear ambitions is all very nice. But there's nothing much they can do about it in realistic terms. As for Pakistan's involvement - this is mostly referenced with regard to the possibility of Saudi Arabia acquiring off the shelf hardware.

 

Both countries may want others to do the dirty work for them, but can't say the conditions for such a cooperation are ripe, or that the prospects of such an operation are bright.

 

Egypt's ambitions are not denied, just it's capability to magically restore it's potential to be one and its influence. Sisi may say this or that, but Egypt's got enough on its domestic plate - and it doesn't handle even this all that well.

 

I dismiss Jordan as a major player in ME affairs, and so does pretty much all other parties. Being a go-between is not quite the same as bearing much power or influence. Iran's support for extreme Palestinian groups in Lebanon causes trouble for Jordan... - what are you on about?

 

So to cut this short - you don't actually have anything to base your assessments and predictions on, and the factual basis for some of the tenets is questionable, at best.

 

[ELVIS123456]

IMO this is the beginning of massive changes to take place across the Muslim world this century.  That the Crown Prince said this, and many other things recently, speaks of future changes.  Many years ago Christianity underwent a radical reformation that eventually removed most of the 'old school' violent extremists, and led to their decline and decay.  Islam (hopefully) is going to undertake the same sort of change process whereby the violent extremists are removed from power and influence, and they will eventually die out. 

 

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Iran needs to build up its forces including a nuclear deterrent to balance the nut cases in the region. The UK sells weaponry to KSA, why not 100 Typhoons for Iran?

 

You actually think the Iranian leadership and it's supporters aren't nutcases? 

[Proboscis]

10 hours ago, ezzra said:

What a bombshell !!!! i'm sure that this statement will no go down well

with many, many people around the world, least the Palestinians, Iran,

BDS and their ilks, and oh yeah, as well as a bunch of esteemed members of this forum....

Actually the Sunnis probably hate the Shias more than they hate the Israelis. Iran and Palestinians are Shias. And Saudi now sees itself as the middle east's big cat and does not like Iran's expansionist foreign policy (expansionist not in terms of territory but in terms of influence).

 

Based on the old adage, that my enemy's enemy is my friend, one is not surprised to see such raproachment between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, Morch said:

 

If it came down to Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, put your money on the former. As for "nut cases", some would include Iranian hardliners on the list. Why would the the UK sell arms to a country which attacked it's embassy, and harasses its citizens? And no, pandering to simplistic political views is not a good enough rationale.

I have no time for Iranian hardliners but they are the result of CIA meddling as usual. The embassy siege in London was 38 years ago. I forgive them (incidently in demonstrated what REAL special forces can do)

 

I am tired of Israel believing it can act with impunity in the region because the USA has their back.

 

I cannot abide Wahhabiism or whatever the medieval name is. Arming these zealots is insane.

 

For me, building up Iran is common sense. They have some pretty women too ?

Edited April 3, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You actually think the Iranian leadership and it's supporters aren't nutcases? 

They are indeed fruit and nut cases in the same way that UK, American, Israeli and Saudi leaders are nutcases. But the population generally are smart and I think their religion is rather less toxic than others I could mention.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Proboscis said:

Actually the Sunnis probably hate the Shias more than they hate the Israelis. Iran and Palestinians are Shias. And Saudi now sees itself as the middle east's big cat and does not like Iran's expansionist foreign policy (expansionist not in terms of territory but in terms of influence).

 

Based on the old adage, that my enemy's enemy is my friend, one is not surprised to see such raproachment between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Palestine

 

Get it right! 

 

Palestinians are Sunni!

 

As an atheist, I hate having to intercede in religious dogma ?

[Grouse]

I can see some nervousness over a Shiite corridor stretching from the Indian Ocean through Iran, Iraq and Lebanon to the med. Control of Southern Syria would be of great interest to Iran.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I have no time for Iranian hardliners but they are the result of CIA meddling as usual. The embassy siege in London was 38 years ago. I forgive them (incidently in demonstrated what REAL special forces can do)

 

I am tired of Israel believing it can act with impunity in the region because the USA has their back.

 

I cannot abide Wahhabiism or whatever the medieval name is. Arming these zealots is insane.

 

For me, building up Iran is common sense. They have some pretty women too ?

 

There's a limit (at least I think so) as to how much posters can lay on the CIA. Whatever the CIA did or didn't do, that was decades ago. What policies the Iranian hold today are their own, and they are the ones accountable for them. As for the embassy thing, you got the wrong one (and either way, you "forgiving" them carries little weight) - try this:

 

2011 attack on the British Embassy in Iran

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_attack_on_the_British_Embassy_in_Iran

 

What you're "tired" about is also not quite what the topic is about - but nice try at a spin. Arming zealots is insane, and yet you support arming even more zealots.

 

Common sense has nothing to do with your post.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Proboscis said:

Actually the Sunnis probably hate the Shias more than they hate the Israelis. Iran and Palestinians are Shias. And Saudi now sees itself as the middle east's big cat and does not like Iran's expansionist foreign policy (expansionist not in terms of territory but in terms of influence).

 

Based on the old adage, that my enemy's enemy is my friend, one is not surprised to see such raproachment between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

 

The Palestinians are predominantly Sunni. Iran supports Hamas, which is still a Sunni Palestinian faction, for political reasons (sort of ruins your argument there). Saudi Arabia does not exactly "hate" the Palestinians, and for many years strongly supported them (to an extent, still does). More like getting tired, and other interests getting precedence.

[Andaman Al]

4 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

IMO this is the beginning of massive changes to take place across the Muslim world this century.  That the Crown Prince said this, and many other things recently, speaks of future changes.  Many years ago Christianity underwent a radical reformation that eventually removed most of the 'old school' violent extremists, and led to their decline and decay.  Islam (hopefully) is going to undertake the same sort of change process whereby the violent extremists are removed from power and influence, and they will eventually die out. 

 

 

I don't understand what goes around peoples heads when they say stuff like this:

 

Quote

Islam (hopefully) is going to undertake the same sort of change process whereby the violent extremists are removed from power and influence, and they will eventually die out. 

I don't recall any Iranians in the team that conducted the 9/11 attacks, they were in fact Saudi and Egyptian. I don't know of any Iranian fighters involved in Syria, Lybia, Egypt or anywhere else in the Middle East.

 

You see the west has a habit of always backing the wrong horse, just like you have done. We did that when the US and UK destabilised the only model Democracy in the Middle East - Iran and put the Shah on the throne. Reason---Oil. That resulted in the revolution as the Shah was a bigger ba****d than even Saddam was. The Iranians didn't cause much bother at all until we forced regime change on them and did not carry out any attacks on us until the USS Vincennes shot down an Iran Air Flight 655 a passenger aircraft full of innocents. I bet you would have been willing to conduct retribution if your family were on that aircraft.

 

All in all we create the mess and then blame the other side, quite convenient really. If you think violent extremists are on the way out with Saudi's and Egyptians egged on by Israel  you have seen nothing yet. The real violence and bloodshed hasn't even started. Israel under zionism will NEVER stop until it has the Nile to the Euphrates, Saudi can have Iran and they can all play happy families when most of the region will be a glass pit. It would be simply awesome to see what would happen in the region if someone really came up with a working cold fusion energy source. It will happen but not in time to save millions more innocents who want nothing more than to get on with their own lives every day with their  families.

[Andaman Al]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

What you're "tired" about is also not quite what the topic is about - but nice try at a spin. Arming zealots is insane, and yet you support arming even more zealots.

Morch

 

Iran, Saudi, Israel, Egypt - They are ALL zealots, and we arm 3/4 of them every day, we are just miffed the Russians got the contract to arm the other 1/4.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Andaman Al

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Andaman Al said:

 

I don't understand what goes around peoples heads when they say stuff like this:

 

I don't recall any Iranians in the team that conducted the 9/11 attacks, they were in fact Saudi and Egyptian. I don't know of any Iranian fighters involved in Syria, Lybia, Egypt or anywhere else in the Middle East.

 

You see the west has a habit of always backing the wrong horse, just like you have done. We did that when the US and UK destabilised the only model Democracy in the Middle East - Iran and put the Shah on the throne. Reason---Oil. That resulted in the revolution as the Shah was a bigger ba****d than even Saddam was. The Iranians didn't cause much bother at all until we forced regime change on them and did not carry out any attacks on us until the USS Vincennes shot down an Iran Air Flight 655 a passenger aircraft full of innocents. I bet you would have been willing to conduct retribution if your family were on that aircraft.

 

All in all we create the mess and then blame the other side, quite convenient really. If you think violent extremists are on the way out with Saudi's and Egyptians egged on by Israel  you have seen nothing yet. The real violence and bloodshed hasn't even started. Israel under zionism will NEVER stop until it has the Nile to the Euphrates, Saudi can have Iran and they can all play happy families when most of the region will be a glass pit. It would be simply awesome to see what would happen in the region if someone really came up with a working cold fusion energy source. It will happen but not in time to save millions more innocents who want nothing more than to get on with their own lives every day with their  families.

 

I don't understand what goes around peoples heads when they say stuff like this:

 

Quote

I don't know of any Iranian fighters involved in Syria, Lybia, Egypt or anywhere else in the Middle East.

 

Iranian, or Iranian-sponsored troops/militias operate in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Yemen.

 

Quote

the US and UK destabilised the only model Democracy in the Middle East - Iran and put the Shah on the throne

 

The Shah was on the Throne prior to this, the intervention thing was about kicking out the Prime Minister. And, of course, Iran wasn't the only democracy in the Middle East at the time. The reasons behind this weren't just about oil, but also related to the Cold War.

 

Quote

as the Shah was a bigger ba****d than even Saddam was

 

That's your opinion, and if I'm not off mark, it's more to do with you being on a roll. Don't know that there's a scale for such things, anyway.

 

Quote

Israel under zionism will NEVER stop until it has the Nile to the Euphrates

 

Unadulterated rubbish.

 

Yet another nothing rant....