Saudi crown prince says Israelis have right to their own land

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There's a limit (at least I think so) as to how much posters can lay on the CIA. Whatever the CIA did or didn't do, that was decades ago. What policies the Iranian hold today are their own, and they are the ones accountable for them. As for the embassy thing, you got the wrong one (and either way, you "forgiving" them carries little weight) - try this:

 

2011 attack on the British Embassy in Iran

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_attack_on_the_British_Embassy_in_Iran

 

What you're "tired" about is also not quite what the topic is about - but nice try at a spin. Arming zealots is insane, and yet you support arming even more zealots.

 

Common sense has nothing to do with your post.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iran

 

Sit down with a cup of tea and a biscuit and read up on Iran. You seem well informed about Israel but you lack depth on Iran.

 

As far as the state organised mob attack on The British Embassy, this was in reltaliation for British sanctions. There were no deaths.

 

I hold that most Iranians, the educated ones anyway, would prefer a secular state and get closer to The West.

 

The topic concerns KSA acknowledging Israel's right to exist. My comments relate to WHY.

 

I think this KSA / Israel axis is dangerous. Partly because they can lead Delta Tango by his money sniffing snout.

 

No, I stand by my view. I would like to see Iran rising up, shedding its theocratic nutters, and joining the civilised world again as a citadel in the middle of dangerous lands.

 

They deserve our support 

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Morch

 

Iran, Saudi, Israel, Egypt - They are ALL zealots, and we arm 3/4 of them every day, we are just miffed the Russians got the contract to arm the other 1/4.

 

Andaman Al

 

Iran and Saudi Arabia are on a different level than Israel and Egypt when it comes to religious fanaticism. Russian arms sales to Egypt and Saudi Arabia are on the rise, by the way.

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Andaman Al

 

Iran and Saudi Arabia are on a different level than Israel and Egypt when it comes to religious fanaticism. Russian arms sales to Egypt and Saudi Arabia are on the rise, by the way.

So let's hope Iran's pointy heads progress quickly. 

 

Good time for UK to play the Great Game!

Edited April 3, 2018 by Grouse

[Morch]

30 minutes ago, Grouse said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Iran

 

Sit down with a cup of tea and a biscuit and read up on Iran. You seem well informed about Israel but you lack depth on Iran.

 

As far as the state organised mob attack on The British Embassy, this was in reltaliation for British sanctions. There were no deaths.

 

I hold that most Iranians, the educated ones anyway, would prefer a secular state and get closer to The West.

 

The topic concerns KSA acknowledging Israel's right to exist. My comments relate to WHY.

 

I think this KSA / Israel axis is dangerous. Partly because they can lead Delta Tango by his money sniffing snout.

 

No, I stand by my view. I would like to see Iran rising up, shedding its theocratic nutters, and joining the civilised world again as a citadel in the middle of dangerous lands.

 

They deserve our support 

 

Yeah, I don't really feel the need for your "informed" instruction, considering the nonsense you spew on these topics, but thanks anyway. A good cuppa sounds nice, though, perhaps I will.

 

Some posters make a whole lot of excuses for certain countries, based on past interventions by outside powers. Me, I think there's a use by date on these things. At some point, a nation, a people, a country - they need to come to their own and be accountable for their actions and choices. 

 

So everything Iran does is because of the US. Or the UK. Or this. Or that. Well - if that's the case, and Iran is some childlike country not accountable for anything, then there's no imperative (even the opposite) to present them with responsibilities (such as handing them advanced weapons, or supporting their geopolitical ambitions). I dunno that making excuses for transgressions makes for a great foreign policy.

 

You can hold whatever you like about the Iranian people. I have nothing whatsoever against them. Their leadership (or some of it) and related policies - a different story. And if the Iranian people did have a secular state, we wouldn't be having this exchange.

 

This topic is about the Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince making some groundbreaking statements in a rather lengthy interview  (well worth the read, even if one doesn't buy into all of the crapola, or doesn't care much for the journalist). As per the usual course of such topics, many a poster comment on anything but. That would include the post above.

 

With regard to the "WHY" - Saudi Arabia feels (and rightly so) threatened by Iran. Regionally, there aren't a whole lot of capable allies who's interests coincide. Israel is also probably seen as having some diplomatic sway with regard to some Western nations, which counts for something as well.

 

So far, I don't think that there is an actual Saudi Arabia/Israel "axis". There could be, maybe, in the future. But the roots of this precede Trump - more to do with Saudi Arabia's disappointment with Obama. You call it "dangerous" - and yet ignore the conditions which led to this unlikely pairing. If Iran wasn't a regional threat, this wouldn't be on. Somehow, Iran is off your list of "dangerous".

 

Your view is muddled. Iran rising up is one thing, a secular Iran is another. The current "rising" of Iran got nothing to do with secularism, quite the opposite if anything. Doubt anyone, not even Saudi Arabia, got much issues with the latter - problem lies with the conjunction of the two. Right now, support for Iran is support for an Islamic theocracy, with regional hegemony aspirations.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Morch

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

considering the nonsense you spew on these topics

If you are going to be unpleasant, count me out.

 

To all but the blind, this is clearly an overt declaration of a KSA/Israel axis. I don't like that and I would favour a stronger Iran to counter these *************,*******

 

Good night!

[Morch]

35 minutes ago, Grouse said:

If you are going to be unpleasant, count me out.

 

To all but the blind, this is clearly an overt declaration of a KSA/Israel axis. I don't like that and I would favour a stronger Iran to counter these *************,*******

 

Good night!

 

Hard to be pleasant when someone's who's not really on top of things presumes to educate others. To all but the stubborn, an actual "axis" would imply and exhibit more than words. As an aside, Jordan and Egypt have actual peace agreements with Israel - does that count as an "axis", as well?

 

You don't like that, fine. Not that you explained quite clearly why, but that's alright. The part I don't quite get is the rationale of supporting an Islamic theocracy, while riling against such. 

 

Pleasant dreams. 

[gogetem]

Great article here about MBS. Looks like he planned to invade Qatar and punch Iran in the nose but was stopped by globalists Tillerson and Mattis. Well, Tillerson is gone, Mattis will be soon. Pompeo and Bolton are in. Iranians aren't going to be pleased when their puppet regime of Qatar is overthrown.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/09/a-saudi-princes-quest-to-remake-the-middle-east

 

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, gogetem said:

Great article here about MBS. Looks like he planned to invade Qatar and punch Iran in the nose but was stopped by globalists Tillerson and Mattis. Well, Tillerson is gone, Mattis will be soon. Pompeo and Bolton are in. Iranians aren't going to be pleased when their puppet regime of Qatar is overthrown.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/09/a-saudi-princes-quest-to-remake-the-middle-east

 

 

Ah, them nasty "globalists" at it again, especially Mattis (a well known Iran sympathizer). If it wasn't for them, MbS would have conquered Qatar (the nefarious Iranian puppet regime hosting the largest US base in the Middle East). And he also almost punched Iran in the nose (even though he seems to have a wee bit difficulty slapping lowly Yemen).

 

This forum does provide some moments of entertainment. That's for sure.

[gogetem]

11 hours ago, ezzra said:

Well yeah... indeed, very happy days...and with John Bolton at Trump's side,

who knows, the sky is the limit....

Usually, I don't got much use for MSM journalists. But this guy, Dexter Filkins, even though he used to write for the NY Times, MSM central, is a pretty cool dude. He used to carry a gun when he was working in Iraq. But I agree that the leftist New Yorker is not a very reliable source of information.

[The manic]

17 hours ago, ezzra said:

What a bombshell !!!! i'm sure that this statement will no go down well

with many, many people around the world, least the Palestinians, Iran,

BDS and their ilks, and oh yeah, as well as a bunch of esteemed members of this forum....

We,  who have lived in the ME have know about Saudi /Israeli positive relations fir years.  No Arabs or Muslims in general care about the Pals. The latter who are regarded as theives and trouble makers by the Arab world and not offered citizenship. 

[geriatrickid]

13 minutes ago, The manic said:

We,  who have lived in the ME have know about Saudi /Israeli positive relations fir years.  No Arabs or Muslims in general care about the Pals. The latter who are regarded as theives and trouble makers by the Arab world and not offered citizenship. 

Bingo.

Much of the arab world has given lip service to the palestinians and  the dislike and distrust of them was cemented when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The only group who actively supported and collaborated with Iraq were the palestinans. It is why they were given a rough time after Kuwait was liberated.

 

No one  harbours any false illusions as to the relations  between arab countries and Israel.  If there is peace or  discussion it is because it suits a mutual interest at the time, not because there is a desire for  anything more. I certainly do not not see this as a kumbayah moment, but just an acknowledgement of the realpolitik that has been in place for some time. The Saudis are on a mission to protect their  country and will do what they need to do.

 

As an aside, yes, the 9/11 hijackers were mostly Saudis, but this doesn't mean it was state sanctioned. It's wrong to blame Saudi Arabia for 9-11. Do we blame France, Netherlands, the UK and others because hundreds of their nationals  joined ISIL? Do we blame  the USA, or UK or Australia because  several of their nationals spew hatred on Thai Visa?

[The manic]

51 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Bingo.

Much of the arab world has given lip service to the palestinians and  the dislike and distrust of them was cemented when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The only group who actively supported and collaborated with Iraq were the palestinans. It is why they were given a rough time after Kuwait was liberated.

 

No one  harbours any false illusions as to the relations  between arab countries and Israel.  If there is peace or  discussion it is because it suits a mutual interest at the time, not because there is a desire for  anything more. I certainly do not not see this as a kumbayah moment, but just an acknowledgement of the realpolitik that has been in place for some time. The Saudis are on a mission to protect their  country and will do what they need to do.

 

As an aside, yes, the 9/11 hijackers were mostly Saudis, but this doesn't mean it was state sanctioned. It's wrong to blame Saudi Arabia for 9-11. Do we blame France, Netherlands, the UK and others because hundreds of their nationals  joined ISIL? Do we blame  the USA, or UK or Australia because  several of their nationals spew hatred on Thai Visa?

The Pals are a useful stick used to beat the Israelis. The Pals destabilised The Lebanon, were kicked out of Tunisia and indeed worked for the Iraqi invaders during the invasion of Kuwait. Dreadful people whose origins are Bedouin raiders harrasing travellers on their way to Mecca and other general brigandage. They were bribed to give up their criminals ways by being given land duringbthe break up of the empire. The Ottoman empire. They did notbkeep to theirbsude of the deal. With the establishment of Israel they hoovered up aid from the UN, NGOs, UNICEF etc and grew into a terror state whose propaganda, machine has been fed by Wahhabis,Sunni, Shia, Salafist, Dubani and so called moderate Muslim alike.. Supported in the west by liberal dupes and closet judaphobes including the liberal elites, progressives and cultural Marxists disguised as liberals but in fact deeply anti Semitic as is being revealed in the UK in the British Labour party currently. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by The manic

[The manic]

51 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Bingo.

Much of the arab world has given lip service to the palestinians and  the dislike and distrust of them was cemented when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The only group who actively supported and collaborated with Iraq were the palestinans. It is why they were given a rough time after Kuwait was liberated.

 

No one  harbours any false illusions as to the relations  between arab countries and Israel.  If there is peace or  discussion it is because it suits a mutual interest at the time, not because there is a desire for  anything more. I certainly do not not see this as a kumbayah moment, but just an acknowledgement of the realpolitik that has been in place for some time. The Saudis are on a mission to protect their  country and will do what they need to do.

 

As an aside, yes, the 9/11 hijackers were mostly Saudis, but this doesn't mean it was state sanctioned. It's wrong to blame Saudi Arabia for 9-11. Do we blame France, Netherlands, the UK and others because hundreds of their nationals  joined ISIL? Do we blame  the USA, or UK or Australia because  several of their nationals spew hatred on Thai Visa?

The 9/11 attackers were connected to high level government contact and in the police state that is Saudi Arabia it is unlikely the government at the time did not know what was happening.  Hate and raciscm is promoted at state level in Islamic theocratic police states. There is no comparison to the western nations whose Muslims bettayed their adopted countries. Saudis have been at the forefront of terrorism and Isis terror like terror groups for decades. 

[ELVIS123456]

21 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

 

I don't understand what goes around peoples heads when they say stuff like this:

 

I don't recall any Iranians in the team that conducted the 9/11 attacks, they were in fact Saudi and Egyptian. I don't know of any Iranian fighters involved in Syria, Lybia, Egypt or anywhere else in the Middle East.

 

You see the west has a habit of always backing the wrong horse, just like you have done. We did that when the US and UK destabilised the only model Democracy in the Middle East - Iran and put the Shah on the throne. Reason---Oil. That resulted in the revolution as the Shah was a bigger ba****d than even Saddam was. The Iranians didn't cause much bother at all until we forced regime change on them and did not carry out any attacks on us until the USS Vincennes shot down an Iran Air Flight 655 a passenger aircraft full of innocents. I bet you would have been willing to conduct retribution if your family were on that aircraft.

 

All in all we create the mess and then blame the other side, quite convenient really. If you think violent extremists are on the way out with Saudi's and Egyptians egged on by Israel  you have seen nothing yet. The real violence and bloodshed hasn't even started. Israel under zionism will NEVER stop until it has the Nile to the Euphrates, Saudi can have Iran and they can all play happy families when most of the region will be a glass pit. It would be simply awesome to see what would happen in the region if someone really came up with a working cold fusion energy source. It will happen but not in time to save millions more innocents who want nothing more than to get on with their own lives every day with their  families.

Delusional re-writing of history - atypical liberal.  Ergo - the world is going to end - Israel is evil - USA is bad - we must appease people - our policies will bring peace and harmony to all.

 

I agree with you about Nuclear Fusion though - that will be THE game changer, and is probably one reason the talk is starting. The moderates can see the writing on the wall - that and the worry of Israel going totally nuclear on them all if their terrorists ever get and explode a nuclear device inside Israel.  If that happens Israel will obliterate all Muslim countries in the Region - and USA Russia and China will stand back and do nothing (much). 

 

PS - ever wonder why there are no Muslim terrorist attacks in China or Japan? And none for many years in Russia? 

 

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Delusional re-writing of history - atypical liberal.  Ergo - the world is going to end - Israel is evil - USA is bad - we must appease people - our policies will bring peace and harmony to all.

 

I agree with you about Nuclear Fusion though - that will be THE game changer, and is probably one reason the talk is starting. The moderates can see the writing on the wall - that and the worry of Israel going totally nuclear on them all if their terrorists ever get and explode a nuclear device inside Israel.  If that happens Israel will obliterate all Muslim countries in the Region - and USA Russia and China will stand back and do nothing (much). 

 

PS - ever wonder why there are no Muslim terrorist attacks in China or Japan? And none for many years in Russia? 

 

It is hardly a re-writing of history stating something before it happens is it?

 

Regarding the historical bits of my post, what do you dispute?   The replacing of Iranian democracy and elected leaders with the Shah? The revolution to depose the Shah? The USS Vincennes shooting down Iran Air 655? Which bits have I re-written?

 

Fact- I am not liberal. 25 years service and 3 wars has positioned me very right of centre. I am just an honest realist. Things are what they are whether we like it or not. No point spinning it, just face it and deal with it.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

It is hardly a re-writing of history stating something before it happens is it?

 

Regarding the historical bits of my post, what do you dispute?   The replacing of Iranian democracy and elected leaders with the Shah? The revolution to depose the Shah? The USS Vincennes shooting down Iran Air 655? Which bits have I re-written?

 

Fact- I am not liberal. 25 years service and 3 wars has positioned me very right of centre. I am just an honest realist. Things are what they are whether we like it or not. No point spinning it, just face it and deal with it.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1031929-saudi-crown-prince-says-israelis-have-right-to-their-own-land/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-12859300

 

Some odd comments for a "realist".

[Andaman Al]

7 hours ago, Morch said:

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1031929-saudi-crown-prince-says-israelis-have-right-to-their-own-land/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-12859300

 

Some odd comments for a "realist".

Kelly Ann Conway and President Trump protect your right to any alternative reality or alternative fact you wish to have.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Kelly Ann Conway and President Trump protect your right to any alternative reality or alternative fact you wish to have.

 

Wasn't aware you're a fan of either. Live and learn.

[metisdead]

Troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Ron19]

Off topic posts removed.

[CharlesSwann]

The Saudi prince is right. Israel is a reality and they've earned by several means (not least, intellect) to have their own country. I travelled through the region a long time ago, and on passing through several Arab countries and across the Allenby Bridge to Jerusalem, on seeing the comparison I thought 'if this is what they've done with it, they deserve it'. Now though, it's a question of borders. Israel has got their country, Palestine should get what is left of theirs. Israel has got to give up the war of attrition and gradual annexation of the West Bank. If they don't, then they are sacrificing any store of sympathy they have left. They are now pushing their luck and it's indecent.

 

Just to add, because the principle is comparable, the Kurds really now should be given their own state in northern Iraq. Then let everyone move to where they feel comfortable, Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Jew. It's the only path to long-term stability of the region. Yes, some people have to compromise, and the rest of the world should be applying appropriate pressure.

Edited April 6, 2018 by CharlesSwann