Running red lights

[geriatrickid]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I see that in Hua Hin the Intercontinental Hotel and Blueport shopping mall have hired their own 'crossing guards'... it seems that the only way drivers in Thailand will obey lights at pedestrians crossings is if they are manned with 'guards' with large orange wands and whistles....  its clear that even then the traffic stops with a significant level of reluctance for crossing pedestrians.... 

 

Just in case someone asks "what is my point?".... the point is: Endemic in Thailands road users is the total and complete lack of consideration for pedestrians or other road users, such that running red lights, not stopping for pedestrians etc becomes the social and somewhat acceptable norm. 

The Bluport has the walkover that people were supposed to use. The guards were directing people. There was mass disobedience form the Chinese and Thais. Then they put in the lights. It's recent. The disabled and  people with strollers could use the cross walk. we all know what the result was.

They are building a cross over at Market Village, which might be finished in a couple weeks. Looks like there will be elevators to assist the  disabled and those with strollers. Now if they are smart, they build a fence for 100 meters. So many people have been mowed down there over the years. the next crossover  50m up near the family Mart was badly constructed with an obstacle in the stairs.

[watcharacters]

2 hours ago, starky said:

Yep ...how much you wanna bet?

 

 

Absolutely, if you can figure out a way to have each side put the wager on the table prior to the bet,   I say wager as much as you can afford to lose.

 

I promise not to spend all my winnings in one place.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

An interesting and timely addition to this debate. From today's news....

 

A car (Honda Civic) cutting across traffic (apparently without looking) to a U-Turn queue. 

The Honda is rear-ended by a traveling delivery truck.

 

Given the debate on the subject of fault, it would be interesting to read of posters opinions as to blame.

 

 

 

Personally, I think the delivery pickup is speeding and hence, unable to avoid the accident, but driver of the Honda Civic is by no means the innocent party in this example.... 

 

It would appear that the Civic Driver is the one being charged with causing the accident - Someone may have won their bet !

Edited April 4, 2018 by richard_smith237

[seajae]

On 4/3/2018 at 11:40 AM, joeyg said:

However the one in the rear of a rear end collision is always at fault...

not all rear end crashes are the car/truck behinds fault, as can be seen in the attached pic of what happens when an idiot driver swerves in front of a truck and breaks, the car(was a 4 door chevy pick up) was totally in the fault here, jumping lanes and breaking  are not the car behinds fault 

Edited April 4, 2018 by seajae

[seajae]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

An interesting and timely addition to this debate. From today's news....

 

A car (Honda Civic) cutting across traffic (apparently without looking) to a U-Turn queue. 

The Honda is rear-ended by a traveling delivery truck.

 

Given the debate on the subject of fault, it would be interesting to read of posters opinions as to blame.

 

 

 

Personally, I think the delivery pickup is speeding and hence, unable to avoid the accident, but driver of the Honda Civic is by no means the innocent party in this example.... 

 

It would appear that the Civic Driver is the one being charged with causing the accident - Someone may have won their bet !

The honda civic is totally at fault, pulling to the straight ahead lane and breaking/slowing down is the reason for the accident. We see this all the time in Thailand, drivers that dont want to get in the queue or decide at the last minute to try to turn from the wrong lane causing cars travelling at the correct speed to try to avoid them or in this case run into them, cant help stupid

[The manic]

On 4/3/2018 at 11:56 AM, joeyg said:

That's why I gave up driving here.  It scares the s$$t out of me.  And I was a driving/riding enthusiast!

 

Try Saudi Arabia 

[joeyg]

Just now, The manic said:

Try Saudi Arabia 

Try India...

[The manic]

21 minutes ago, joeyg said:

Try India...

I have. Thailand has safe and civilised driving compared to Saudi. Most people who criticise Thai driving are country people not city dwellers and people who have not travelled much. 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, seajae said:

The honda civic is totally at fault, pulling to the straight ahead lane and breaking/slowing down is the reason for the accident. We see this all the time in Thailand, drivers that dont want to get in the queue or decide at the last minute to try to turn from the wrong lane causing cars travelling at the correct speed to try to avoid them or in this case run into them, cant help stupid

I think so too... Well not totally. The crash was also avoidable by the Pick-up had be been paying attention and slowed down. 

 

In this thread, some have argued that the driver of the vehicle which is hit from behind is never at fault. I'm wondering if they would now question that in light of this recent example on Thailands roads. 

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think so too... Well not totally. The crash was also avoidable by the Pick-up had be been paying attention and slowed down. 

 

In this thread, some have argued that the driver of the vehicle which is hit from behind is never at fault. I'm wondering if they would now question that in light of this recent example on Thailands roads. 

 

 

I don't think anyone said that the vehicle in front was never at fault.  Some people said that the vehicle behind was always at fault. 

 

It could be that both drivers are at fault.  One for creating a dangerous situation, and one for driving without sufficient care to avoid that situation when it arose.

[Jdiddy]

On 4/3/2018 at 2:52 PM, starky said:

A lot more aware than that. I have seen many Thais who won't move till well after a light has turned green as it is well known that many Thais will run the red. Certainly nothing new. Having said that you put countdowns on traffic lights in Australia like you do in Thailand and the chaos would be just as great. Both from those trying to run the red and jump the green.

 

I was next to a couple of tourists on rental dirt bikes at a countdown light, they had their eyes glued to it and took off as soon as it went green.

They were lucky, the 5 or 6 cars and a bus running the red saw them and breaked

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I don't think anyone said that the vehicle in front was never at fault.  Some people said that the vehicle behind was always at fault. 

 

It could be that both drivers are at fault.  One for creating a dangerous situation, and one for driving without sufficient care to avoid that situation when it arose.

 

Good point...  'the vehicle in front is never at fault' vs 'the vehicle behind it always at fault' have two different meanings, and, as you quite rightly point out those in the discussion were who were claiming 'the vehicle behind is always at fault' are not at the same time implying 'the vehicle in front is without fault'...

 

But can there be situations where the car behind is without fault?... 

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Good point...  'the vehicle in front is never at fault' vs 'the vehicle behind it always at fault' have two different meanings, and, as you quite rightly point out those in the discussion were who were claiming 'the vehicle behind is always at fault' are not at the same time implying 'the vehicle in front is without fault'...

 

But can there be situations where the car behind is without fault?... 

Only when I'm driving...

 

Realistically, there are some hazards that you can't reasonably be expected to anticipate - people coming through red lights quickly after other traffic has stopped, people pulling out unexpectedly after they appear to have seen you already.  But generally, I don;'t see any excuse for driving into people, no matter how stupid or selfish they are.

 

SC

[samsensam]

On 03/04/2018 at 5:40 AM, joeyg said:

However the one in the rear of a rear end collision is always at fault...

 

indeed. the colour of the traffic light is irrelevant, it could have been a child running onto the path of the vehicle ahead. always keep a safe braking distance between you and the vehicle in front. and dont partake in any activity that takes your attention away from being in complete control of your vehicle.

[observer90210]

Right of way here, despite a green light means nothing....always drive slow, keep enough distance with the chap in front and don't forget to have an eye on what can suddenly spurge up from either the left or right.....that's the only way to survive here if you drive in Thailand ! ...

 

And unless things have changed, which one can doubt, Thailand is a very much like Dubai....a farang/expat will   n e v e r    be in his right when dealing with the cops and opposed to a local.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Right of way here, despite a green light means nothing....always drive slow, keep enough distance with the chap in front and don't forget to have an eye on what can suddenly spurge up from either the left or right.....that's the only way to survive here if you drive in Thailand ! ...

 

And unless things have changed, which one can doubt, Thailand is a very much like Dubai....a farang/expat will   n e v e r    be in his right when dealing with the cops and opposed to a local.

 

And expect the unexpected, and, use a dash-cam just-in-case the unexpected happens. 

 

 

Regarding the myth that a Foreigner will never be 'in the right' when dealing with the Police when in conflict with a local (I assumed you mean, when in an accident with a Thai)... from personal experience, this is not true and further validated in the posts of other ThaiVisa members when posting on the subject. 

 

While simple apathy, and both language and cultural differences may encourage some Police to take the path of least resistance when dealing with a conflict between a Thai and a Foreigner, the default deference shown by many Foreigners may also contribute to an unfair and distorted outcome. However, calm, polite and well-tempered resistance may often see the balance of favour swing the other way. 

 

The topic of 'negatively bias outcomes' has been covered numerous times on ThaiVisa (it usually crops up when discussing road accidents). The general 'takeaway' from these threads is that some have encountered negative bias, some have been treated incredibly unfairly, while others have encountered simple indifference, been treated with equality and in some cases more favourably. 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by richard_smith237

[joeyg]

11 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Right of way here, despite a green light means nothing....always drive slow, keep enough distance with the chap in front and don't forget to have an eye on what can suddenly spurge up from either the left or right.....that's the only way to survive here if you drive in Thailand ! ...

 

And unless things have changed, which one can doubt, Thailand is a very much like Dubai....a farang/expat will   n e v e r    be in his right when dealing with the cops and opposed to a local.

Agreed.  However that is changing but only fractionally...

[JimGant]

When I've got some hotdog on my bumper, and I approach an intersection where the light is switching to red, I've learned to accelerate into the intersection just as the light turns red -- as the <deleted> on my bumper has already figured to run the light. Had I stopped, as I normally do when no one is on my bumper, I'm sure there would be a rear ender. How the cops would fault that would be interesting.

[TPI]

On 03/04/2018 at 11:51 AM, possum1931 said:

I would dispute that as there is the odd occasion when a vehicle cuts in right in front of you then has to slam on his brakes before you get the chance to drop back a bit, on the sort of occasion, how can the rear end collision be the drivers fault?

A nit pick perhaps 

[TPI]

19 hours ago, JimGant said:

When I've got some hotdog on my bumper, and I approach an intersection where the light is switching to red, I've learned to accelerate into the intersection just as the light turns red -- as the <deleted> on my bumper has already figured to run the light. Had I stopped, as I normally do when no one is on my bumper, I'm sure there would be a rear ender. How the cops would fault that would be interesting.

Dangerous Jim, if someone T bones what excuse do you have?

[JimGant]

Quote

Dangerous Jim, if someone T bones what excuse do you have?

Not sure what "T bones" means.... My rationale is, if I just enter the intersection a split second before/during the light changes to red, it's equivalent to entering during the yellow (for practical purposes). I suppose T boning could mean those jumping the gun for the light to turn green. In which case, have I avoided a rear ender just to experience a side ender? Who knows. I just make sure I don't enter the intersection *after* the light has definitely turned red (yeah, a close call). We live in exciting times, no?

[juice777]

That's why I gave up driving here.  It scares the s$$t out of me.  And I was a driving/riding enthusiast!
 

Shame I can't give up walking it makes my blood boil the way people jump red lights when I am trying to cross the road.I watch the police ignore them why keeping a eye out for drivers with no Crash helmet.


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[tropo]

On 4/3/2018 at 11:40 AM, joeyg said:

However the one in the rear of a rear end collision is always at fault...

This old cliche never gets old. It's not true.

[tropo]

19 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Shame I can't give up walking it makes my blood boil the way people jump red lights when I am trying to cross the road.I watch the police ignore them why keeping a eye out for drivers with no Crash helmet.
 

1

It just takes too much effort to catch them. Motorcyclists are an easy target.