UK state pension going same way as Australian ?

[Expatwannabee]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

NHS is dependant on where you live not on your contributions, if you live in Thailand you are paying for nothing.

It's complicated. If you live in Thailand and are receiving a UK state pension, then while you are in Thailand you are not eligible for NHS care. However on returning to the UK you are once again immediately eligible for care. If you are under pension age then on returning to the UK you must wait for 6 months before you can get treatment. Even this is not the full story since anyone in the UK, whether resident or visiting can receive emergency treatment from the NHS.  

[simoh1490]

15 minutes ago, Pdavies99 said:

I looked this up, there are no relevant local discussion  papers, it is easy to check.

 

Sorry I will not reply further to argumentative responses, look it up yourself....its easy!

You may think my question is argumentative which I think is in itself very odd, I simply wish to understand whether this is a real and valid issue that the OP has presented but you seem to think it is manufactured. I suggest you and the OP need to come clean on which of you are mistaken in your posts because one of you is in violation of forum rules, my guess is you are mistaken.

[simoh1490]

11 minutes ago, Expatwannabee said:

It's complicated. If you live in Thailand and are receiving a UK state pension, then while you are in Thailand you are not eligible for NHS care. However on returning to the UK you are once again immediately eligible for care. If you are under pension age then on returning to the UK you must wait for 6 months before you can get treatment. Even this is not the full story since anyone in the UK, whether resident or visiting can receive emergency treatment from the NHS.  

Not entirely!

 

Returning expats, regardless of their age, are entitled to free access to NHS services from the first day of their return, provided they are returning to live on a permanent and settled basis.

[champers]

I remember this particular boat being floated about a year ago (same OP?). Just for some context and balance, the Labour Party had a manifesto commitment in the last election to unfreeze expat pensions.

[simoh1490]

Just now, champers said:

I remember this particular boat being floated about a year ago (same OP?). Just for some context and balance, the Labour Party had a manifesto commitment in the last election to unfreeze expat pensions.

Using what exactly to pay for it!

[champers]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Using what exactly to pay for it!

Your NI contributions; same as those expats who live in EU countries, various Commonwealth countries and the Phillipines (as a good comparison to Thailand) whose pensions are not frozen.

[Stevemercer]

23 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

please tell what is the Australian method ?? 

 

In Australia, the old age pension is means tested. If you have another income (e.g. private pension or substantial assets) you may not be entitled to the OAP or may have it reduced accordingly. For example, if your income stream is equal to, or above, the value of the OAP, you will not receive it.

 

In addition, if you live overseas, and have just reached the age where you can claim the OAP, you will be denied. You must be living in Australia for 2 years before you can claim the OAP (assuming you are entitled).

 

Thirdly, if you are an Australian living overseas, and receiving an income from Australia, you loose any Australian tax benefits (such as no tax payable on the first $18,000 and initial low tax rates) and must pay a flat 33.2% on every dollar received.

 

 

[4MyEgo]

23 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

please tell what is the Australian method ?? 

Its too detailed to mention, although if you go to the Home Forum page and click on it and then scroll down to the Home Country Forum you will see at the top of it Australian age pension, its been going for about a decade, but I think from page 150 you should get a good grip of what it is, although I will give you a little heads up.

 

Basically if you leave Australia before you reach the old age pension age, i.e. 67 and become a Non Resident, because you have been out of the country for more than 180 days, then you will have to return to Australia when you reach the OAP age, 67 and up to 70 depending on the year you were born, e.g. if you were born on 1 July 1960 then it would be 67, if born after that date but before 1 July 1961, then it would be 67 and a half, and so on and so forth, i.e. every year you are born after that date, it adds half a year till you hit 70.

 

Once the pension is approved, you have a 2 year jail sentence which says you cannot go overseas for that period, i.e. it is not portable, although you can take a brief holiday of say 4 weeks overseas with their approval in that jail term of 2 years, go over that holiday period and they will cancel your pension and your time starts all over again.

 

They want to make sure your not going to go back overseas to live once it's granted, but if you do your time, i.e. 2 years, they cannot stop you when it becomes portable, but you will have to jump through a fair few hoopla hoops to get it the OAP if you have been living overseas.

 

If you have been living in Australia beforehand, i.e. without having lived overseas, there is no 2 year waiting period, its portable straight away, go figure.

 

Retaining your Residency is the thing you have to try and do, but that is complicated, because if you live over here, your ties are theoretically cut after 180 days out of the country, there is a stack of legislation that defines Residency and Non Residency, but at the end of the day, the onus is on you to prove your residency, e.g. own a property in Oz, have a car, drivers licence, adult children, bank account, club memberships, and return every now and again, etc etc, if they feel yep that's sounds about right, then your all and good, but if you don't have the above, you could be swimming against the tide, so to speak, and I am of the opinion that there a lot of Aussie Xpats out there that have their heads in the sand thinking she'l be right mate and will get a rude awakening when they either apply, or return to apply not being aware of how things are or work.

 

There is also an asset test to consider, so if your under the threshold its all and good, if over it, they start chopping away.

 

Me for example, I cannot say I am a resident, even though I have my citizenship and have paid taxes for 40 years, deciding to retire at 55 and move here with the wife and young children for a better quality life, so I am a classed as a Non Resident, open and shut case, however, lets say 3 years prior to the OAP age, I decide to move back to Australia, and then apply for the pension, they will ask, how long have you lived overseas, and my reply would be, 12 years for example, and the last 3 in Australia, then they will ask why did you return, health reasons will be my reason, will you return overseas in the future, can't see that happening, kids are in school, don't want to uproot them again, besides the schools and uni's are better here than over there, and there education is important to me, but health care is better here than there, etc etc etc

 

Naturally the application won't get approved straight away, it will be sent to someone who reviews this cases, and then if approved, sweet, will just wait till the jail term is up and go back to Thailand, if its is declined, then I can appeal.

 

They have to be convinced you have returned for good, and not just for the 2 years period so you can get it and then go back, because once its portable its done and dusted. 

 

At the end of the day, I figure that western governments all around the world will start to impose this on their hard working Xpat citizens because they need to support those on welfare that have never contributed, or never will, especially the ones that left their war torn countries, so at the end of the day, they have to look after them, well, their hard working citizens like myself decided to leave, didn't I and as you lose your voting rights, they aren't concerned what ones thinks, because one can't vote, so we have to play the system if we want to get the pension, and personally, its a decade away for me, and I am good being a self funded retiree, so will see what gives if and when I get there, as a lot of things can change from now till then, i.e. moving the goal pasts again and again and again.

[Lamkyong]

9 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

 

In Australia, the old age pension is means tested. If you have another income (e.g. private pension or substantial assets) you may not be entitled to the OAP or may have it reduced accordingly. For example, if your income stream is equal to, or above, the value of the OAP, you will not receive it.

 

In addition, if you live overseas, and have just reached the age where you can claim the OAP, you will be denied. You must be living in Australia for 2 years before you can claim the OAP (assuming you are entitled).

 

Thirdly, if you are an Australian living overseas, and receiving an income from Australia, you loose any Australian tax benefits (such as no tax payable on the first $18,000 and initial low tax rates) and must pay a flat 33.2% on every dollar received.

 

 

thanks well written and understood  hope it does not happen for the uk  nice easy read

[Lacessit]

As an Australian, I have to laugh at the arrant nonsense of the OP.  Clickbait - yes, it worked with me.

At the risk of angering fellow Australians, OAP in Australia and abroad are mostly treated with kid gloves. It's a matter of knowing the hoops you have to jump through. Sure, if we go overseas we lose about $50 a fortnight in pension supplements - big deal. It's the Millennials in Australia who will have to fund their retirement. The Baby Boomers are too big a voting bloc for the pollies to offend.

I've heard it said that to be born British is to win the lottery of life. Not looking so good now, eh? A little bit of schadenfreude, sorry.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Lacessit

[simoh1490]

33 minutes ago, champers said:

Your NI contributions; same as those expats who live in EU countries, various Commonwealth countries and the Phillipines (as a good comparison to Thailand) whose pensions are not frozen.

As I recall, the Labour manifesto includes spending to the tune of over 70 billion that the country would have to borrow, that's even before the pipe dream of expat pensions. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you .

[Letseng]

5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

As I recall, the Labour manifesto includes spending to the tune of over 70 billion that the country would have to borrow, that's even before the pipe dream of expat pensions. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you .

Considering that Brits paid to get state pension they should get the full amount no matter where they live. State pension is not a freebie. 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

2 hours ago, Sumarianson said:

I will only have the UK pension. No private pension. If they cut it in any way, I am back home. Taking advantage of free housing, free dental and free hospitals. I came here because the weather does not exacerbate my COPD but the UK's does. I will be on disability in the UK at a higher rate and cannot work. 10 years to pension so let them do their worst.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Governments, British or otherwise, do not care about your individual circumstances. If such a proposal as that under discussion here were ever implemented, it would in part be as a result of thorough investigation of the actuarial consequences of doing so; Tom, Dick or Terdsak's personal situation is irrelevant. And if you think that existing on a basic state pension in the UK, even with the benefits you describe - and some such as dental care are not as 'free' as you make out - is the walk in the park you imply, then give it a whirl.

[champers]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

As I recall, the Labour manifesto includes spending to the tune of over 70 billion that the country would have to borrow, that's even before the pipe dream of expat pensions. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you .

No, I won't hold my breath. I was stating the 2 opposite positions on UK expat pensions in Thailand, which is the topic. Labour appear to be more empathetic to the needs of state pension recipients.

If you are passing comment on a party's entire spending plans that is off topic, but would warrant a thread in it's own right. You could start one.

[soalbundy]

53 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Using what exactly to pay for it!

The queen will pay for it. Sell a trident missile. Scrap the wedding cake. Sell the third baby. cut the quango's, who cares. 

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

Governments, British or otherwise, do not care about your individual circumstances. If such a proposal as that under discussion here were ever implemented, it would in part be as a result of thorough investigation of the actuarial consequences of doing so; Tom, Dick or Terdsak's personal situation is irrelevant. And if you think that existing on a basic state pension in the UK, even with the benefits you describe - and some such as dental care are not as 'free' as you make out - is the walk in the park you imply, then give it a whirl.

It will be a sleep in the park

[champers]

8 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Considering that Brits paid to get state pension they should get the full amount no matter where they live. State pension is not a freebie. 

Quite right. It is an entitlement, not a benefit. It should be sacrosant and not subjected to any jiggerypokery from MPs with gilt edged pensions.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, champers said:

Quite right. It is an entitlement, not a benefit. It should be sacrosant and not subjected to any jiggerypokery from MPs with gilt edged pensions.

Well you do get the pension, just not the increases. There is always a get out clause, the UK government has always shown itself to be very efficient in such matters.

[champers]

Just now, soalbundy said:

Well you do get the pension, just not the increases. There is always a get out clause, the UK government has always shown itself to be very efficient in such matters.

If an expat living in the Phillipines gets the increase, so should an expat living in Thailand, or anywhere else for that matter.

[soalbundy]

Just now, champers said:

If an expat living in the Phillipines gets the increase, so should an expat living in Thailand, or anywhere else for that matter.

There has been a deal done.

[champers]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

There has been a deal done.

Probably because half the House of Commons employ a Filipino nanny or au pair.

[GTgrizzly]

1 hour ago, Stevemercer said:

 

In Australia, the old age pension is means tested. If you have another income (e.g. private pension or substantial assets) you may not be entitled to the OAP or may have it reduced accordingly. For example, if your income stream is equal to, or above, the value of the OAP, you will not receive it.

 

In addition, if you live overseas, and have just reached the age where you can claim the OAP, you will be denied. You must be living in Australia for 2 years before you can claim the OAP (assuming you are entitled).

 

Thirdly, if you are an Australian living overseas, and receiving an income from Australia, you loose any Australian tax benefits (such as no tax payable on the first $18,000 and initial low tax rates) and must pay a flat 33.2% on every dollar received.

 

 

You are dead right Steve

I have 33 days till I am retirement age..(but whose counting  )

This subject came up a few months ago on here and every one had a different opinion, so the next day I rang the auss tax office and spoke to them

They told me the same as you have mentioned here tonight

[mommysboy]

Sounds like a lot of scare-mongering rubbish.  The UK pension is contributions based and is not based on anything other than what you've paid in.  It would be outrageous for them to deny a paid up pensioner his dues.  

[HauptmannUK]

I am the OP on this topic:

1. The information is not 'manufactured'.

2. The vast majority of policy and discussion papers are not 'logged' and made publicly available - that would be politically very stupid, think about it!

3. Someone in government (civil service) has spotted that the number of expat pensioners has doubled in a decade to almost 1M and the trend is still upward.  That's an awful lot of money 'leaking' out of the country! 

4. I didn't post it as a Brexit issue. Brexit paranoia strikes again.

5. Don't just think about UK born expat pensioners. Think about the many foreign born pensioners who are now returning to live in the land of their birth e.g. India, Pakistan, Carribean etc. Maybe this is where the increase is, and the big potential future increase? Think of the money being sent overseas!!

6. I don't see this as a Labour/Conservative issue. I don't see Labour being any more benevolent to expats than the Conservative Party. Looking after expats is way down the list of all the parties.

7. I don't know all the details of the Australian system - it was just quoted as a possible model. IIRC there is a minimum residence time requirement to start drawing the pension and expats pay tax on Australian source income at a higher rate than residents?

Edited April 7, 2018 by HauptmannUK

[HauptmannUK]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

Sounds like a lot of scare-mongering rubbish.  The UK pension is contributions based and is not based on anything other than what you've paid in.  It would be outrageous for them to deny a paid up pensioner his dues.  

Hmm.  You mean like by freezing it, for example?

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

Hmm.  You mean like by freezing it, for example?

I mean something more drastic. It's always been grandfathered.  

 

The only other bone of contention has been about the rights of wives of expats.  This came up as a topic over and again, and basically rules were put in place.

 

A few years ago the UK went over to a wholly contributions based system- and made it fairer to non UK nationals who had contributed to the system but got nothing out.  I hardly think it will therefore turn on its own.

 

The difference is that Australia is means tested, as there is possibly a benefit related element.  The nearest comparison is the UK Universal credit.  Here, someone without a pension would receive a payment, but this is only providing they reside in UK.

[Jonmarleesco]

Are you referring to a restriction additional to that already long imposed? Or a new one?

[mommysboy]

I could foresee a more aggressive taxation policy: perhaps lowering the threshold for those going overseas, or private pensions being taxed at the highest rate.

[Fish Head Soup]

After the next election I doubt the UK will see another conservative government for a while anyway. Plus any such change in the rules would more than likely be revoked by future government.

 

Nothing to be alarmed about here, next!

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

After the next election I doubt the UK will see another conservative government for a while anyway. Plus any such change in the rules would more than likely be revoked by future government.

 

Nothing to be alarmed about here, next!

Corbyn, Abbott and last but not least McDonnell...........what could possibly go wrong.