Are you a Loser?

[Hummin]

7 hours ago, smotherb said:

I think you have confused love and infatuation. Love is not a masking of your mind; sensible people do not let love cause irrationality. Love is and must be reciprocal; if only one loves, they are the loser. Thinking only with your heart is a bad start, if you do not intellectualize your love, you will have problems.

What is love? I always say to my gf, I will tell you in 10 years what love is! Maybe I have found the answer then, who knows. 

 

[marko kok prong]

On 4/10/2018 at 5:11 PM, soalbundy said:

what a stupid topic from an arrogant man, there are no losers in life, it is a learning process, some take longer than others, some are unfortunate enough to be dealt a bad hand and yet like Prof. Hawkins rise above it, some, like Trump, cannot rise above themselves, it isn't even his fault his mental make up won't allow it. Stop thinking you are in control, what happens happens because it can be no other way. Think about why you started this post.

Like your response, i will add a old i think Indian Mughal saying "There are no could have been's or should have dones,there is only what is.

[smotherb]

6 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

Thanks you for your comment, up to "years........"

 

Well I can't win them all.   One loved it, bwpage3, post # 106, thought it right on the money, and you don't.   Such is life!!

 

Differing opinions, based on our life experiences, make life interesting.

 

I've given you a 'like' for yoru post.

 

 

Ah, so now you change your story. You said, "everyone after age 40 is a loser, die with it "  What you said is undeniably incorrect. There are many winners past 40 years of age. There may be more losers under 40 years of age. 

[F4UCorsair]

11 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Ah, so now you change your story. You said, "everyone after age 40 is a loser, die with it "  What you said is undeniably incorrect. There are many winners past 40 years of age. There may be more losers under 40 years of age. 

 

You're qupoting the wrong poster, or you're dreaming.   I never mentioned 40 yo!!

 

Go back, chill out, read again, and come back.

[smotherb]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

never heard of him but I will look him up. Not predestination, currents appear under the water, we can't see them and they can seem to happen from nowhere but there is a cause, perhaps 2 km away downstream, everything is connected but we have no influence over the prime cause of events we can only react to the manifestations in our immediate space. How we react is important, we can align ourselves with what I call universal consciousness by completely accepting the event without an internal dialogue of complaint ''This is so unfair'' etc. and then react with the acknowledgement 'it is as it is', this is positive and can stop the chain reaction of the prime cause, or one reacts with anger and despair and becomes another link in the chain reaction affecting your surroundings with negative energy. Having said that it must be accepted that your reaction is also largely out of your control, dependant on genetics and your life's story which has preconditioned you to react in a certain way, pavlovian if you will.Making the mind your servant instead of letting it be your master is the only way to break the cycle but the destruction of 'the little me' the ego, takes years of hard work, I've been at it for 5 years and I am far from done.

Well, for your convenience, suffice to say that Janathan Edwards was a religious fanatic in colonial America who preached we were all predestined to live our lives out as part of some grand scheme of things. No matter what we did or how we lived our lives; our predestination could not be changed. Your underwater currents which cannot be seen appear to follow his line of thinking. I believe we have considerable control over what we do and what we encounter; we do have a choice of where we go, how we get there and what we do. I do understand there are those of us who simply do what is thrown upon us without any direction in our own minds. Life is not all reactionary, you must be proactive to guide your life in the directions you want. Did you not choose to come to Thailand, did you not have a plan to enable your existence here? Or did these underwater currents simply dump you here to fend for yourself? I believe you can prepare yourself for most situations; if you have the abilities, skills and wherewithal to do so—and developing those abilities, skills and wherewithal is within your realm of capability.

[smotherb]

3 hours ago, Hummin said:

What is love? I always say to my gf, I will tell you in 10 years what love is! Maybe I have found the answer then, who knows. 

 

Love may mean different things to different people. However, love between two people must be understood in the same manner. If not, it is not love. For me, love is caring for another even more than you care for yourself.

[smotherb]

27 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

You're qupoting the wrong poster, or you're dreaming.   I never mentioned 40 yo!!

 

Go back, chill out, read again, and come back.

Sorry, don't know how your post got listed.I was responding to poanoi, the poster to whom I replied.

12 hours ago, smotherb said:

So, you'd recommend dying before you're 40 so you can be a winner?  Being stupid is pretty much the rule-of-thumb for being a loser.

well, you can carry on being a loser for 40+ years after that,

but that will result in an overall negative score,

the longer you carry on, the more negative end score

Edited 5 hours ago by poanoi

[Hummin]

26 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Love may mean different things to different people. However, love between two people must be understood in the same manner. If not, it is not love. For me, love is caring for another even more than you care for yourself.

In worst case that is selfdestruction! You have to ad you need social scills, social intelligence and so on if that is your look at it. 

 

How can you be someone for anyone if you not first of all love yourselves? 

 

I read something interesting once, and that said love is completely selvfish, of selvfish and egoistic reasons. Of course both have to benefit from the relationship, if true love going to evolve. 

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, smotherb said:

Well, for your convenience, suffice to say that Janathan Edwards was a religious fanatic in colonial America who preached we were all predestined to live our lives out as part of some grand scheme of things.

Wasn't Janathan Edwards an English Sportsman? He specialised in the triple jump, also a member of an English 4x100m relay team in some Com'. Games sometime.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Well, for your convenience, suffice to say that Janathan Edwards was a religious fanatic in colonial America who preached we were all predestined to live our lives out as part of some grand scheme of things. No matter what we did or how we lived our lives; our predestination could not be changed. Your underwater currents which cannot be seen appear to follow his line of thinking. I believe we have considerable control over what we do and what we encounter; we do have a choice of where we go, how we get there and what we do. I do understand there are those of us who simply do what is thrown upon us without any direction in our own minds. Life is not all reactionary, you must be proactive to guide your life in the directions you want. Did you not choose to come to Thailand, did you not have a plan to enable your existence here? Or did these underwater currents simply dump you here to fend for yourself? I believe you can prepare yourself for most situations; if you have the abilities, skills and wherewithal to do so—and developing those abilities, skills and wherewithal is within your realm of capability.

 

undercurrents are events that start somewhere else over which you have no control but affect you indirectly. Imagine a schoolboy who fails his exams miserably,the father shouts at him, his mother defends him, the parents argue for hours, eventually they go to bed but the father who is your car mechanic sleeps badly as a result of all the arguing. The next day he repairs your car but makes a vital mistake due to tiredness, several days later you have a bad accident as a result and you are severely handicapped and can no longer work, as a result you lose your house. If you were asked how this came about you would say because of a car accident but it was because a schoolboy failed his exams but we can go further, why did he fail his exams? His aunt bought him an adventure story book that he would read many times over at night instead of sleeping properly and didn't do his revision for the exams, the book was written by J.H. Bloggs who got the idea while watching fishermen in a village in Spain and speaking to Manuel, an old fisherman who recounted his adventures at sea, so really it was all Manuels fault. Everything is connected, everything you or I do affects the whole, something you do today may end up affecting a native in the jungles of Brazil a few years later. How the father adjusts to his new situation of being handicapped depends on his genetic make up, on the nurture he received as a child, on his education, whether he is an out and out materialist or can regard this in the context of spirituality and who he 'coincidently' meets to guide him, there are no coincidences, things are as they are meant to be at that moment in time, this changes over time depending on what currents are flowing under the surface at any one moment but once you are in the strudel you are as out of control as you are with your kidney function or the division of your body cells, you can't even control your thoughts or your moods as long as you allow the mind to be your master instead of a useful tool.

[smotherb]

3 hours ago, Hummin said:

In worst case that is selfdestruction! You have to ad you need social scills, social intelligence and so on if that is your look at it. 

 

How can you be someone for anyone if you not first of all love yourselves? 

 

I read something interesting once, and that said love is completely selvfish, of selvfish and egoistic reasons. Of course both have to benefit from the relationship, if true love going to evolve. 

Apparently, you have misunderstood what I said. Self destruction occurs when your love is not reciprocal. It goes without saying that from my perspective I possess the social character and intelligence to make the proper decisions.

 

Please note, I did not say I did not love myself; but that I cared for another more.

 

You can read a lot of things. Obviously, I don't believe in what you read. From my statement of love; I said it must be reciprocal and it must be obvious that it is not selfish. How could you care more for the other person if love were selfish?

[smotherb]

4 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Wasn't Janathan Edwards an English Sportsman? He specialised in the triple jump, also a member of an English 4x100m relay team in some Com'. Games sometime.

Janathan? Never heard of her.

[smotherb]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

undercurrents are events that start somewhere else over which you have no control but affect you indirectly. Imagine a schoolboy who fails his exams miserably,the father shouts at him, his mother defends him, the parents argue for hours, eventually they go to bed but the father who is your car mechanic sleeps badly as a result of all the arguing. The next day he repairs your car but makes a vital mistake due to tiredness, several days later you have a bad accident as a result and you are severely handicapped and can no longer work, as a result you lose your house. If you were asked how this came about you would say because of a car accident but it was because a schoolboy failed his exams but we can go further, why did he fail his exams? His aunt bought him an adventure story book that he would read many times over at night instead of sleeping properly and didn't do his revision for the exams, the book was written by J.H. Bloggs who got the idea while watching fishermen in a village in Spain and speaking to Manuel, an old fisherman who recounted his adventures at sea, so really it was all Manuels fault. Everything is connected, everything you or I do affects the whole, something you do today may end up affecting a native in the jungles of Brazil a few years later. How the father adjusts to his new situation of being handicapped depends on his genetic make up, on the nurture he received as a child, on his education, whether he is an out and out materialist or can regard this in the context of spirituality and who he 'coincidently' meets to guide him, there are no coincidences, things are as they are meant to be at that moment in time, this changes over time depending on what currents are flowing under the surface at any one moment but once you are in the strudel you are as out of control as you are with your kidney function or the division of your body cells, you can't even control your thoughts or your moods as long as you allow the mind to be your master instead of a useful tool.

I think you have gone off on a tangent. This thread is primarily about marriage and divorce and secondarily about relationships. While I agree a series of events can affect a change in one's life, I find it hard to blame a poor decision about the person to marry on a boy failing a test. There are conscious decisions we all make which are more directly related to our experiences.

[smotherb]

36 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Janathan? Never heard of her.

My bad, owl sees all, I see that I misspelled it first.

[smotherb]

4 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Wasn't Janathan Edwards an English Sportsman? He specialised in the triple jump, also a member of an English 4x100m relay team in some Com'. Games sometime.

Sorry, I see I misspelled it first. Yes, there was an English runner named Jonathan Edwards.

[jenny2017]

42 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Janathan? Never heard of her.

What about Johnathan? 

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, smotherb said:

I think you have gone off on a tangent. This thread is primarily about marriage and divorce and secondarily about relationships. While I agree a series of events can affect a change in one's life, I find it hard to blame a poor decision about the person to marry on a boy failing a test. There are conscious decisions we all make which are more directly related to our experiences.

it is going off at a tangent, it is about whether you consider yourself a loser, not about marrying the wrong girl. My premise is that you are rarely, if ever in a position to make a decision based only on logic and that often the situation you find yourself in is only down to you at first glance, looked at closely you will see that much more was at play.

[soalbundy]

29 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

What about Johnathan? 

I know a guy called Johnathan, he is what some might call a successful loser, managerial position, sportsman, good looking, plenty of women, elegant, well travelled, intelligent, very cultivated and as a person, very unhappy.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

I know a guy called Johnathan, he is what some might call a successful loser, managerial position, sportsman, good looking, plenty of women, elegant, well travelled, intelligent, very cultivated and as a person, very unhappy.

I like Jonathan Seagull Livingstone! 

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I like Jonathan Seagull Livingstone! 

I presume?

quaaaaack

I'll take that as a yes

[smotherb]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

it is going off at a tangent, it is about whether you consider yourself a loser, not about marrying the wrong girl. My premise is that you are rarely, if ever in a position to make a decision based only on logic and that often the situation you find yourself in is only down to you at first glance, looked at closely you will see that much more was at play.

And I disagree that you are not in the position to make a decision on whom you will have a relationship.

[rdhowell]

14 hours ago, soalbundy said:

never heard of him but I will look him up. Not predestination, currents appear under the water, we can't see them and they can seem to happen from nowhere but there is a cause, perhaps 2 km away downstream, everything is connected but we have no influence over the prime cause of events we can only react to the manifestations in our immediate space. How we react is important, we can align ourselves with what I call universal consciousness by completely accepting the event without an internal dialogue of complaint ''This is so unfair'' etc. and then react with the acknowledgement 'it is as it is', this is positive and can stop the chain reaction of the prime cause, or one reacts with anger and despair and becomes another link in the chain reaction affecting your surroundings with negative energy. Having said that it must be accepted that your reaction is also largely out of your control, dependant on genetics and your life's story which has preconditioned you to react in a certain way, pavlovian if you will.Making the mind your servant instead of letting it be your master is the only way to break the cycle but the destruction of 'the little me' the ego, takes years of hard work, I've been at it for 5 years and I am far from done.

 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, smotherb said:

And I disagree that you are not in the position to make a decision on whom you will have a relationship.

How many 'coincidences' were necessary before you met her? What life's experience made you find her attractive and not someone else ? Did you decide not to be gay in the womb ? Where did the first words you spoke to her come from, did you have to think about them or did they just arise ? Nobody 'makes a decision' to find someone pleasant, it happens within a few seconds if researchers are to be believed, how does that happen ? a combination of genetics and your life's story up until then. What do you follow when 'making a decision', logic or your gut feeling, it has been found that against all expectations gut feelings are the best to be followed, after all your body and indeed your mind are on automatic all the time (you don't decide to breath or blink or sweat or digest or urinate, your mind is constantly thinking, 85% nonsense or unnecessary mind noise ) Many experiments have been done to prove there is no free will, the first was done in Frankfurt to prove that there was free will (Benjamin Libet) but alas it turned out to prove the opposite, an experiment often repeated in modern times with accurate brain scanning methods have only shown this to be true. There is opposition of course, who likes the idea that we are 'run'.

[rdhowell]

Just now, rdhowell said:

 

Don't know how that quote got sent without my reply, sorry folks.

 

Anyhow. Wow, that was interesting. I could sure enjoy a philosophical/theological discussion as it relates to this marriage/relationship topic, but that might get off track of the thread here, but then again it might fit very well!

Have to ponder a bit....

[rdhowell]

Ok. I think we can include the Christian Theology. Might be useful/relevant later. Back to the original post. Piece by piece.

 

(1) "So what are the odds the Thai woman was 100% at fault in all these divorce cases?

 

I say 0% and thus the topic: Are you a Loser?"

 

If "those cases" are presumed to be different from, let's say, the average divorce case (worldwide), then perhaps the discussion won't be relevant. But it seems the OP was trying to make a point about divorce in general, not just restricting it to "Thai women" and "foreign men."

Assuming this, my thoughts on (1) are:

 

Sure, the odds that the woman is 100% at fault in ALL divorce cases is, let's just say, unreasonable. 

More accurately, that statement (alone) doesn't make much sense without some context added to it.

 

However, a woman can certainly be at fault in some divorce cases.

In fact, "the odds" that a woman is at fault in MOST divorce cases is, simply put,  not about odds whatsoever.

it is simply the fact.

 

Stated simply: In most divorce cases, it is the woman who is at fault.

Yes, you read right. 

As we shall see, this is a necessary fact. It has nothing to do with speculation or theory.

Moreover, on detailed analysis, once you get past this fact, not even the auxiliary issues, in most cases, will exonerate the woman.

 

In sum, in most cases, it is the woman who not only single-handedly destroys a marriage, but who also does so unjustifiably.

 

So much for part (1).

 

 

[bwpage3]

24 minutes ago, rdhowell said:

Ok. I think we can include the Christian Theology. Might be useful/relevant later. Back to the original post. Piece by piece.

 

(1) "So what are the odds the Thai woman was 100% at fault in all these divorce cases?

 

I say 0% and thus the topic: Are you a Loser?"

 

If "those cases" are presumed to be different from, let's say, the average divorce case (worldwide), then perhaps the discussion won't be relevant. But it seems the OP was trying to make a point about divorce in general, not just restricting it to "Thai women" and "foreign men."

Assuming this, my thoughts on (1) are:

 

Sure, the odds that the woman is 100% at fault in ALL divorce cases is, let's just say, unreasonable. 

More accurately, that statement (alone) doesn't make much sense without some context added to it.

 

However, a woman can certainly be at fault in some divorce cases.

In fact, "the odds" that a woman is at fault in MOST divorce cases is, simply put,  not about odds whatsoever.

it is simply the fact.

 

Stated simply: In most divorce cases, it is the woman who is at fault.

Yes, you read right. 

As we shall see, this is a necessary fact. It has nothing to do with speculation or theory.

Moreover, on detailed analysis, once you get past this fact, not even the auxiliary issues, in most cases, will exonerate the woman.

 

In sum, in most cases, it is the woman who not only single-handedly destroys a marriage, but who also does so unjustifiably.

 

So much for part (1).

 

 

Stated simply: In most divorce cases, it is the woman who is at fault.

 

Where is your evidence to back up your claim?

[smotherb]

13 hours ago, soalbundy said:

How many 'coincidences' were necessary before you met her? What life's experience made you find her attractive and not someone else ? Did you decide not to be gay in the womb ? Where did the first words you spoke to her come from, did you have to think about them or did they just arise ? Nobody 'makes a decision' to find someone pleasant, it happens within a few seconds if researchers are to be believed, how does that happen ? a combination of genetics and your life's story up until then. What do you follow when 'making a decision', logic or your gut feeling, it has been found that against all expectations gut feelings are the best to be followed, after all your body and indeed your mind are on automatic all the time (you don't decide to breath or blink or sweat or digest or urinate, your mind is constantly thinking, 85% nonsense or unnecessary mind noise ) Many experiments have been done to prove there is no free will, the first was done in Frankfurt to prove that there was free will (Benjamin Libet) but alas it turned out to prove the opposite, an experiment often repeated in modern times with accurate brain scanning methods have only shown this to be true. There is opposition of course, who likes the idea that we are 'run'.

What we are arguing has been argued for centuries. Read the works of Tiberiu Tesileanu on Predestination vs. Free Will. You may realize there are differing schools of thought. 

 

"Nobody 'makes a decision' to find someone pleasant." Absolute hogwash. I always have made those decisions. No coincidences were necessary. All decisions come from logical thought and my life experiences, many of which I chose to experience. I have a set criteria I have developed for most of what I do in life.  I decided on my education, what I would do, where I would go; because I had the wherewithal to pursue it and the intelligence to make it happen. I decided where I would work, and to a large extent what I would be paid--both based on my selection of what I wanted to do and what paid the most; and, of course, the fact I had the skills to do what was required and be needed by the employer.  Similarly, I selected the women I wanted in my life; I set-up a definitive selection criteria--intelligent, capable, virtuous, and good looking were among the criteria. The most important criteria was that she wanted me too. Some of the women I chose did not share my desires, so I moved on to others who did. I have made things happen in my life and not just sat around waiting for something to happen.

Edited April 13, 2018 by smotherb

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, smotherb said:

What we are arguing has been argued for centuries. Read the works of Tiberiu Tesileanu on Predestination vs. Free Will. You may realize there a differing schools of thought. 

 

"Nobody 'makes a decision' to find someone pleasant." Absolute hogwash. I always have made those decisions. No coincidences were necessary. All decisions come from logical thought and my life experiences, many of which I chose to experience. I have a set criteria I have developed for most of what I do in life.  I decided on my education, what I would do, where I would go; because I had the wherewithal to pursue it and the intelligence to make it happen. I decided where I would work, and to a large extent what I would be paid--both based on my selection of what I wanted to do and what paid the most; and, of course, the fact I had the skills to do what was required and be needed by the employer.  Similarly, I selected the women I wanted in my life; I set-up a definitive selection criteria--intelligent, capable, virtuous, and good looking were among the criteria. The most important criteria was that she wanted me too. Some of the women I chose did not share my desires, so I moved on to others who did. I have made things happen in my life and not just sat around waiting for something to happen.

We are talking past one another so I will leave it at that except to say where did your 'set criteria' come from?

You once wrote that 'I decided' to come to Thailand, did I ? all by myself ? I lived in Germany most of my working life because even as a teenager I felt an inherent love for the language and so taught myself, where this love came from I don't know. Some years before my retirement from BMW someone in my office asked me if I would proof read some technical documents in English for him, they were meant to be sent to Thailand and as such had some illustrations with a few words written in Thai on them, the letters fascinated me so I set about learning to read Thai from German textbooks,it was hard work without a teacher but I persevered many hours each evening until 'I decided' to try out my language skills in Thailand, that is how I ended up here. Asia was never on my radar before that.

[suzannegoh]

Nonsense, most farang here were highly respected members of society in their home country and their presence here makes Thailand a much more world worldly place.

[transam]

1 minute ago, suzannegoh said:

Nonsense, most farang here were highly respected members of society in their home country and their presence here makes Thailand a much more world worldly place.

Correct....You have obviously heard me..........