‘Prayut creating network of allies’ to remain as PM

[robblok]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

How much of a say would the Netherlands military have in these coalition talks?

No influence at all.. but breaking up and reforming is perfectly legal and the reasons are up to those in charge of the parties. They just had a chat with the military and decided it would be better to abandon Thaksin. Had a coup happend it would not have been legal, Newin saw his chance broke away got far better ministeries then he had before and it was done. 

 

Nobody put a gun against anybodies head.. the party leaders made the decision and they have the right to do so. What influenced them (unless bodily harm) does not matter.  We had coalitions fail for silly reasons back in the Netherlands too.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Does that change the fact that Singapore is a small island city-state with a western-style legal system and civil service, dependent on western democracies for its safety and prosperity, and one that has never had a military government or coup?

It still is NOT a democracy, your the one telling me democracy is the only way.. obviously a strong leader who is called a benevolent dictator is the total opposite of a democracy. 

[robblok]

@heybruce

 

I give up, lets agree to disagree.

[heybruce]

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

No influence at all.. but breaking up and reforming is perfectly legal and the reasons are up to those in charge of the parties. They just had a chat with the military and decided it would be better to abandon Thaksin. Had a coup happend it would not have been legal, Newin saw his chance broke away got far better ministeries then he had before and it was done. 

 

Nobody put a gun against anybodies head.. the party leaders made the decision and they have the right to do so. What influenced them (unless bodily harm) does not matter.  We had coalitions fail for silly reasons back in the Netherlands too.

"a chat with the military" ?  Remember, these coalition talks were being made in accordance with a constitution written to accommodate the military.

 

" Mr Abhisit has tried to reassure nervous Thais that his squabbling, nine-month-old coalition government is on good terms with the army. The top brass have given their usual no-coup pledges. This time, they are probably sincere. It would seem rash to unseat Mr Abhisit, whom they helped to install after the courts dissolved a pro-Thaksin government, and who remains beholden to them."  https://www.economist.com/node/14456895

[heybruce]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

It still is NOT a democracy, your the one telling me democracy is the only way.. obviously a strong leader who is called a benevolent dictator is the total opposite of a democracy. 

Not at all applicable to the situation in Thailand.

[robblok]

Bruce as I said.. i give up.. I still stand with what i said.. but we can rehash this until eternity and find arguments it won't work.

 

I like shortcuts especially if they help get past an other 20-40 years of corruption / nepotism and all the other crap we see here. 

[heybruce]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

Bruce as I said.. i give up.. I still stand with what i said.. but we can rehash this until eternity and find arguments it won't work.

 

I like shortcuts especially if they help get past an other 20-40 years of corruption / nepotism and all the other crap we see here. 

My point through out has been that military coups and military rule, especially by a notoriously corrupt military, has never made things better.  Looking for shortcuts such as military rule is both foolish and dangerous.

[robblok]

Just now, heybruce said:

My point through out has been that military coups and military rule, especially by a notoriously corrupt military, has never made things better.  Looking for shortcuts such as military rule is both foolish and dangerous.

Shortcuts worked in Singapore.

 

Anyway the military is no longer a solution for me. They are corrupt too. It will pain me to watch the Shins rape the country again but at least (if we are lucky) the anti corruption agencies will find dirt on them. The army will not be prosecuted so i rather have the Shins there who (if we are lucky) will be prosecuted for corruption. 

 

I still won't find it nice to watch as it will take decades for a single court-case to come to conclusion, with a chance of people escaping to other countries. 

[metisdead]

A post containing content copy and pasted from another site has been removed as it was in violation of fair use policy. 

[pornprong]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Shortcuts worked in Singapore.

 

Anyway the military is no longer a solution for me. They are corrupt too. It will pain me to watch the Shins rape the country again but at least (if we are lucky) the anti corruption agencies will find dirt on them. The army will not be prosecuted so i rather have the Shins there who (if we are lucky) will be prosecuted for corruption. 

 

I still won't find it nice to watch as it will take decades for a single court-case to come to conclusion, with a chance of people escaping to other countries. 

There are no shortcuts to anything of value.

 

Read the article at the attached link, particularly the last paragraph which concludes with:

 

"The Democrat Party’s leaders – young, attractive and cosmopolitan – could have positioned themselves as mediators between a corrupt, complacent old elite and a corrupt, arrogant new power. Instead, they chose their natural side in the class war, and achieved the feat of losing the moral high ground to a man such as Thaksin. Their responsibility, and their disgrace, are very great."

 

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n12/richard-lloydparry/the-story-of-thaksin-shinawatra

 

 

[Jonmarleesco]

On 4/19/2018 at 4:12 AM, webfact said:

Jurit Laksanawisit, the former spokesman for the Democrat Party, said Prayut should hire more advisers to teach him about morality

What, Thais teaching Thais about morality?

[tomta]

10 hours ago, pornprong said:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n12/richard-lloydparry/the-story-of-thaksin-shinawatra

A quote from this article  describing Prayuth as a "humourless, epauletted dalek" remains the best description.

[tomta]

13 hours ago, robblok said:

I like shortcuts especially if they help get past an other 20-40 years of corruption / nepotism and all the other crap we see here. 

Robblok, the "shortcuts" you endorse to stop corruption are otherwise known as treason. How can that possibly work?

[jonstarjon]

On 4/19/2018 at 8:24 AM, Enoon said:

 

Outstanding vitriolic attack upon the general population.

 

When was the last time you took the risks that attempting to topple this (make no mistake, it's a new world in Thailand) brutal regime entails?

 

When it does finally kick off I hope you are around to share in the similar joys to those which currently engulf the Syrian people.

 

It's not something I wish upon the Thai people......far from it.

 

But, unfortunately, every time he opens his mouth the end result becomes increasingly obvious and (given the grotesque economic inequalities being fostered) inevitable.

 

 

Don't worry a have similar mouthful for regimes in Syria and indeed and more controversially Israel. I will keep all and sundry posted as my thoughts form. :-) On a more unfortunate note though I do have a vested interest in Thailand with both a son and daughter with nothing to look forward to in their native country in the future. Luckily they are now in the UK trying to keep their heads both above water and below the parapet of Thai bullshit. I pray I am strong enough to keep them here. 

[chama]

On 4/18/2018 at 5:55 PM, Samui Bodoh said:

The Junta/Prayut are hell-bent on staying in power though cheating (Yellows and Greens ALWAYS cheat); the way to counter that is to create political conditions which make cheating an illegitimate option. And get on it; if you wait too long, it'll be too late. If the parties allow Prayut/Junta to set the 'winning' conditions in advance, then they have lost the election before it begins.

How to get the word out to the people who will be voting? There is already some censorship partial put in place just to prevent the Thai people from learning about the manipulation of their political structure and the hijacking of their country. The student activist seem to be the most viable opportunity to get the word out.

[JAG]

3 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Well said. 

 

I fear this country is now broken beyond any means of repair, and I get it confirmed to me daily by the news and the faces on the Thais I meet. 

 

Asia and in particular South East Asia is entering a dangerous period where democracy and truth could be snuffed out altogether. The trend seems to be global but the most at risk are the developing countries where democracy has not yet taken root. Patriarchal and feudal systems where corruption is the norm rather than the exception help inadequates like the current PM and his number two in command to stay in power with backroom deals and vote buying to ensure support. 

 

They don't learn from their mistakes unfortunately, and the immorality, corruption and lack of ethics just gets stronger and bolder and the gradual complete failure of those societies that fail to learn lessons just becomes more inevitable. 

I don't think that it is broken beyond any hope of repair. I do think that the process which will end this regime, and those whose hegemony it exists to maintain will be messy, possibly violent and very possibly bloody.

 

Patriarchal and feudal societies (of which Thailand is arguably one of a number in South East Asia) only survive if their people feel that somehow they have a stake, and a place in that society. I am no fan of communism but the regimes in Laos and Vietnam are secure because they rule (perhaps cynically) in the name of their people, and the benefit of their people is a significant aim for their activities. Here the regime which took (no seized)  power four years ago, and shows no sign of relinquishing power, very obviously rules in the interest of a very small group of the people. That is manifest in the almost "apartheid" like differences in provision of services and opportunities here, both geographically and in terms of socio-economic groupings. That "apartheid" deepens with every month that the junta remains in power. It is reflected most dramatically in wealth distribution but also in education and the legal system. It is further reinforced by the widespread corruption within every agency of the state, tolerated because it serves to keep the loyalty of the states servants, at no real cost to those at the top of society, but causes great damage to the lives of those at the bottom.

 

The one institution which was central to the patriarchal nature of this country, and on which the masses felt they had a claim, has effectively gone - to be replaced by what - making children chant "commandments" before school and exhortations to dress in faux traditional costumes for family outings?

 

I used to do a lot of sailing, in a previous life. Thailand is like a yacht which is "hove to", sitting relatively calmly in the water but not going anywhere, and drifting slowly onto a lee shore.

 

When the inevitable upheaval occurs, my hope is that whatever emerges from the wreckage will be more focused on the general population, and not purely on serving those at the very top. I think (hope) that it will, if only because that which the regime relies on to keep it in power, it's military and judiciary, are essentially ineffective and will crumble.

 

So no, Thailand  is not doomed, but it is going to be in for a very rough ride. I certainly would not want to live in Bangkok for the next couple of years...

Edited April 21, 2018 by JAG

[yellowboat]

4 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Well said. 

 

I fear this country is now broken beyond any means of repair, and I get it confirmed to me daily by the news and the faces on the Thais I meet. 

 

Asia and in particular South East Asia is entering a dangerous period where democracy and truth could be snuffed out altogether. The trend seems to be global but the most at risk are the developing countries where democracy has not yet taken root. Patriarchal and feudal systems where corruption is the norm rather than the exception help inadequates like the current PM and his number two in command to stay in power with backroom deals and vote buying to ensure support. 

 

They don't learn from their mistakes unfortunately, and the immorality, corruption and lack of ethics just gets stronger and bolder and the gradual complete failure of those societies that fail to learn lessons just becomes more inevitable. 

Thank you !

 

Well it is so bad that all the junta lovers, for the most part, have left the forum.  That is one indication of how bad things are.  Taiwan and Japan have higher freedom indexes than the US:  https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/united-states

So there are bright spots which one day could be emulated.  Mongolia, India and South Korea are free too.   Malaysia, Philippines and Singapore have some freedom.  We can only hope one day Thailand will covet the prestige of freedom over materialism to compete with the free nations of Asia.   Thailand given that it has not known war, cold or hot, for decades should be much further along than it is today.   But currently it is sliding.  Burma is probably the biggest disappointment.  Outside of SE Asia, there is a fair amount of hope and good role models thankfully. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by yellowboat