Israeli troops kill four more Palestinians in border protest

[malagateddy]

It was reported somewhere .. I cannot remember where, that hamas were giving money to families of those easily led people who lost their lives in the recent futile demos.
For the last time..if the people rose up and got rid of the hamas gangsters..hopefully things would change for the better.
Maybe just maybe if no financial aid was given to them..then hamas would be sent packing.
The people there have had absolute fortunes given to them but they always like the " violence" way.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[7by7]

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

It was reported somewhere .. I cannot remember where...........

Are you thinking of the Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund or the separate but similar fund operated by Hamas?

 

Compensating people who have been injured or the families of those killed by the state of Israel; how shocking.

 

If you believe that such compensation excuses the killing of children by the IDF then you must also believe that the compensation paid by the UK government to the victims of Islamic terrorism must in some way excuse that terrorism!

 

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

For the last time..if the people rose up and got rid of the hamas gangsters..hopefully things would change for the better.

If the Israeli people got rid of Netanyahu and his gangsters things may improve. Hamas have said they are willing to talk to Israel; Netanyahu refuses to talk to them.

 

2 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Maybe just maybe if no financial aid was given to them..then hamas would be sent packing.
The people there have had absolute fortunes given to them but they always like the " violence" way

I have found many articles accusing the Palestinian Authority of wasting billions in aid money or using it to fund terrorism; from Islamaphobic sources like Gatestone, from Zionists like the Israeli politician Tzipi Hotovely and many similar sources; I have not found one independent article; but only looked on the first dozen pages of Google, so maybe I'd have found something had I continued.

 

I am not saying that no money is wasted; where there be politicians there is also corruption! Perhaps you can provide a link, or is this something else you sort of remember reading somewhere but have forgotten where?

 

Hamas also gets international funding; much from Iran. 

 

I am old enough to remember when most people genuinely believed that a peaceful solution in Northern Ireland was impossible because the hardliners on both sides simply would not talk to each other. Then the miracle happened; they started talking. The peace is still fragile, but it's holding.

 

The same could happen here; if only the Palestinians and Israelis would talk to each other. The Palestinians have offered talks, the Israeli government consistently refuse to talk while Hamas are included on the Palestinian side. What would have happened in Northern Ireland had the Unionists refused to talk to Republicans because the IRA were included on the Republican side? Simple, no peace.

 

The ball is firmly in Netanyahu's court; but he refuses to play it.

 

 

[Swimman]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Hamas have said they are willing to talk to Israel

What about I wonder? Hamas has never retreated from their avowed intent to wipe Isreal and its people from the face of the earth. I wonder if you have a view about construction materials intended to repair/replace infrastructure being diverted into the building of tunnels into Israel?

[7by7]

20 minutes ago, Swimman said:

What about I wonder? Hamas has never retreated from their avowed intent to wipe Isreal and its people from the face of the earth. I wonder if you have a view about construction materials intended to repair/replace infrastructure being diverted into the building of tunnels into Israel?

 

11 hours ago, 7by7 said:

From May 2017: Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders
.

OK, it doesn't recognise the state of Israel nor mention Israel by name; but the fact that it does accept a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders means it must also accept that another state occupies the rest of the area. 

 

It's a small step for sure, but it is a step in the right direction.

 

From as long ago as Feb 2009 Hamas has offered peace

 

From October 2017 Israel will not negotiate with Palestinian unity government if Hamas is involved

 

As I said before, there would be no peace in Northern Ireland if the Unionists had not agreed to talk to the IRA; just as there will be no peace in Palestine (the geographical region which includes the state of Israel) until the Israeli government agrees to talk to Hamas.

 

But, you may, as others do, ask "How can Israel talk to Hamas when Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel?" From Jan 2006  Hamas drops call for destruction of Israel from manifesto

 

The following article about the Oded Yinon Plan is interesting; albeit extremely biased. “Greater Israel”: The Zionist Plan for the Middle East

Quote

According to the founding father of Zionism Theodore Herzl, “the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.”  According to Rabbi Fischmann,  “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.”

 

I doubt many Jews, Israeli or not, have much sympathy with the plan; but from all that I've read I would not be at all surprised to discover that the article is correct in saying that Netanyahu and Likud do! 

[Swimman]

43 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Oded Yinon Plan

Mmm - Many would regard that as extremism! 

 

I knew an interesting old gent, a Palestinian who had spent most of his life in Aqaba, Jorden. During the course of a conversation, I once asked if he would like to return home. His response was instant and angry(not toward me) and he railed against what he described as those with the Jinn inside them -- He was speaking about the leaders/members of Hamas and other extremist groups. 

[Jingthing]

29 minutes ago, Jerry787 said:

or you are a puppet troll pro sionist or you have pork salami slices on your eyes so you cant see properly....

every day the extremist sionist are mathematically committing genocide against Palestinians...


all excuses are the same of who try to defend the nazis on the concentration camps, shame of you !!! 

I do identify as liberal Zionist, thank you very much. Meaning I support the right of Israel to exist and defend herself but don't support every policy of every Israeli government. There is no such thing as any kind of rational discussion with a person writing twisted filth as you just did. Israel demonizers try to sell the word Zionist as a dirty word, the country name Israel as a dirty word. I'm not buying that hate speech.

 

Bye. 

[The manic]

On 4/21/2018 at 6:48 AM, BobBKK said:

Good for Natalie Portman and hope more artists boycott and support BDS's aim to treat Palestinians as equals and reign in Israels bullying policies.  

BDS is a shameful corrupt campaign lacking anti semitism and Judaphobia. Any individual or organisation supporting BDS should be boycotted, have their contracts cancelled and sent to live in Pakistan. Israel is the only democracy in the middle East. The wahabist hate for Jews and the corrupt UN have sucked in the usual 'useful idiots' to support their cause which is the destruction of Israel, another holocaust against the Jews and the establishment of an Islamic state.

 

[The manic]

On 4/25/2018 at 10:46 PM, malagateddy said:

It was reported somewhere .. I cannot remember where, that hamas were giving money to families of those easily led people who lost their lives in the recent futile demos.
For the last time..if the people rose up and got rid of the hamas gangsters..hopefully things would change for the better.
Maybe just maybe if no financial aid was given to them..then hamas would be sent packing.
The people there have had absolute fortunes given to them but they always like the " violence" way.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Arab Families are rewarded for killing Jews. It's that simple and that vile. There is no such place as Palestine or such a people. An imvention created by the break up of the Ottoman empire. Their ancestors were landless barbarian robbers, slavers and raiders temporarily settled to stop them attacking and killing pilgrims going to Mecca and other travellers.  

[dexterm]

7 hours ago, The manic said:

Arab Families are rewarded for killing Jews. It's that simple and that vile. There is no such place as Palestine or such a people. An imvention created by the break up of the Ottoman empire. Their ancestors were landless barbarian robbers, slavers and raiders temporarily settled to stop them attacking and killing pilgrims going to Mecca and other travellers.  

I believe the IDF have a pension scheme too, should they get injured trying to kill Palestinians.

 

You might like to know that Palestinians, whom you somehow dehumanize as invisible, are actually real people who are and always have been the majority in historic Palestine.

 

Palestinians Will Outnumber Israeli Jews in 2016
[and projected further] "in 2020 the number of Palestinians between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea will be 7.14 million, compared with 6.87 million Jews."
https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-1.634336

 

And that's not even counting several million more Palestinians exiled in the Palestinian diaspora.

 

A dilemma that Israel faces if Israel continues its illegal occupation...a minority ruling over a majority based solely on religion/ethnicity aka apartheid?

 

The OP is a symptom of this demographic reality. Israel had to resort to ethnic cleansing to even establish the state of Israel. It can't get away with that again now that the whole world is watching. It can kill protesters on the fence in dribs and drabs, or come to terms with the fact that it is trying to rule over a majority either by moving towards a two state or, as I see inevitable, a one state solution.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Reality and what you "believe" (or pretend to "believe") are separate things. There is no IDF pension scheme which is tied with "injured trying to kill Palestinians". That's just another blatant lie, or lame spin. The PA and the Hamas, on the other hand, do reward Palestinian terrorists and their families based on such criteria. Go for another blood libel, wouldn't be your first shot at one.

 

As for "dehumanizing Palestinians" - I don't know that someone unable or unwilling to discuss negative aspects pertaining to the Palestinian side, or routinely presenting them as unable to take charge of their destiny, make reasoned choices or be held accountable for their actions, got any business chiding others about "dehumanizing".

 

 

[dexterm]

23 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

Reality and what you "believe" (or pretend to "believe") are separate things. There is no IDF pension scheme which is tied with "injured trying to kill Palestinians". That's just another blatant lie, or lame spin. The PA and the Hamas, on the other hand, do reward Palestinian terrorists and their families based on such criteria. Go for another blood libel, wouldn't be your first shot at one.

 

As for "dehumanizing Palestinians" - I don't know that someone unable or unwilling to discuss negative aspects pertaining to the Palestinian side, or routinely presenting them as unable to take charge of their destiny, make reasoned choices or be held accountable for their actions, got any business chiding others about "dehumanizing".

 

 

The  IDF terrorists are rewarded with pensions and their families compensated if they are injured or killed. It's a blatant lie to claim otherwise.

 

Please!... not the pathetic anti semitic blood libel card! You demean the currency. Have you no shame? Put up or shut up if you are accusing me of anti semitism. Don't smear by innuendo.

 

Your final paragraph is full of off topic non sequitur garbage.

 

You are still defending the indefensible. Still no sympathy from you for the 4 killed and 618 injured on Friday and not a word of criticism for the psychopathic IDF who actually pulled the trigger.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

There's only one liar in this exchange, and that you.

 

Once again, you're having trouble differentiating your imagination and reality. In reality, the IDF is not considered a terrorist organization, whereas the Hamas (and previously most elements making up the PA) are. These are pretty much the view of what you usually refer to as the "civilized world".

 

Also, in reality IDF soldiers or their families are compensated if they are injured and killed - but, and that's the point made, this is not about "injured trying to kill Palestinians". The last bit is a lie you try to spin in order to create false equivalency. An IDF soldier or family of would get a compensation even if injured/killed in an accident. Most armies make such provisions. The Palestinian form of compensation is directly tied with carrying out terrorist attacks against Israelis. Whether you like to acknowledge this or not doesn't change facts.

 

What you posted is essentially a blood libel, and you did so on previous occasions (at least on one of them, you even issued a half-arsed "apology"). If you want to bring up bogus claims of antisemitism go right ahead, but notice you're the one bringing it up. As for "demeaning" anything, coming from someone employing the sort of descriptions and terms you resort to, quite amusing. And I'm not "smearing by innuendo" - I'm saying that you post lies and that that the latest is a blood libel. No innuendos whatsoever.

 

That you label my comment "off topic non sequitur garbage" is just another sad example of your inability to carry a reasoned discussion. You routinely portray the Palestinians in a manner leaving out a whole lot of things human, then blame others for doing so, if from another angle. Guess that's just another one of them zero consistency issues your posts are rife with.

 

My post wasn't actually "defending" anything, other than perhaps facts and realism, both anathema to your own posts. And as for your usual dramatics - we can't all be emotional exhibitionists, nor are posters required to adopt your vehement posting style, never mind your extreme views. 

[dexterm]

20 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

There's only one liar in this exchange, and that you.

 

Once again, you're having trouble differentiating your imagination and reality. In reality, the IDF is not considered a terrorist organization, whereas the Hamas (and previously most elements making up the PA) are. These are pretty much the view of what you usually refer to as the "civilized world".

 

Also, in reality IDF soldiers or their families are compensated if they are injured and killed - but, and that's the point made, this is not about "injured trying to kill Palestinians". The last bit is a lie you try to spin in order to create false equivalency. An IDF soldier or family of would get a compensation even if injured/killed in an accident. Most armies make such provisions. The Palestinian form of compensation is directly tied with carrying out terrorist attacks against Israelis. Whether you like to acknowledge this or not doesn't change facts.

 

What you posted is essentially a blood libel, and you did so on previous occasions (at least on one of them, you even issued a half-arsed "apology"). If you want to bring up bogus claims of antisemitism go right ahead, but notice you're the one bringing it up. As for "demeaning" anything, coming from someone employing the sort of descriptions and terms you resort to, quite amusing. And I'm not "smearing by innuendo" - I'm saying that you post lies and that that the latest is a blood libel. No innuendos whatsoever.

 

That you label my comment "off topic non sequitur garbage" is just another sad example of your inability to carry a reasoned discussion. You routinely portray the Palestinians in a manner leaving out a whole lot of things human, then blame others for doing so, if from another angle. Guess that's just another one of them zero consistency issues your posts are rife with.

 

My post wasn't actually "defending" anything, other than perhaps facts and realism, both anathema to your own posts. And as for your usual dramatics - we can't all be emotional exhibitionists, nor are posters required to adopt your vehement posting style, never mind your extreme views. 

>>In reality, the IDF is not considered a terrorist organization
..says who? you? And who are you? the figures dont seem to support your opinion. 135 killed including 15 children, a deaf boy shot through the head, 2 clearly identifiable press and medics and over 13,000 injured with a solitary IDF soldier slightly bruised!
BTW how's the Israeli internal investigation into these murders progressing? Like putting the fox in charge of the hen house massacre. I am waiting for the results of the investigation with unabated breath.

 

The IDF is the armed wing of the racist supremacist state of Israel. Except they are the occupiers and invaders, not the occupied and invaded.

 

>>What you posted is essentially a blood libel, and you did so on previous occasions (at least on one of them, you even issued a half-arsed "apology")  [essentially..hmm..what are you actually trying to say?]
..that's a new low even for you. A couple of years ago I used the word "bloodthirsty" (I think?) in the case of yet another IDF massacre and in that I am not an anti Semite I was unaware of the connotations in Jewish history of that particular word. When pointed out to me I immediately apologized for my inadvertent usage. You are obviously stalking me and keeping archives of my posts. Flattering in a way. But also demonstrates what I have said in other contexts:  give a Zionist apologist an inch, and he will take a mile.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Once more - in reality, the IDF is not considered a terrorist organization. Says who? Pretty much all them countries you label the "civilized world". That you try to spin things as if they are solely my position is lame and dishonest. On the other hand, the most of this "civilized world" considers the Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Again, not just my personal point of view. So yeah, reality.

 

On the other hand, your own extreme, vehement views on both the IDF and Israel are not widely accepted, at least not by what you often refer to as  the "civilized world". Once again, reality.

 

You could cry a "new low" all you like. You posted what you posted. Both now and back then. Not even counting all them times you posted such vehement drivel in between those two occasions. So even if one was to take your "wasn't aware" at face value (which I do not), it would imply all them subsequent times you use such descriptions were made knowingly.

 

Don't know that you have a case calling other posters "stalkers" or "apologists" considering both apply to your own conduct and posts.

 

And, of course, all this tantrum is simply about covering you lied regarding the nature of IDF compensations to soldiers, which was itself used to deflect a factual comment about the PA and Hamas compensations directly related to terrorist attacks.

[dexterm]

On 4/26/2018 at 3:02 AM, Swimman said:

Mmm - Many would regard that as extremism! 

 

I knew an interesting old gent, a Palestinian who had spent most of his life in Aqaba, Jorden. During the course of a conversation, I once asked if he would like to return home. His response was instant and angry(not toward me) and he railed against what he described as those with the Jinn inside them -- He was speaking about the leaders/members of Hamas and other extremist groups. 

You are demonizing Hamas with a spurious personal anecdote.

 

>>I knew an interesting old gent, a Palestinian who had spent most of his life in Aqaba, Jorden. 

..so how long ago did you have this conversation with the old gent who had spent most of his life in Aqaba? Very interesting indeed considering Hamas only came to power in in 2006 in free and fair democratic elections verified by credited international observers and accepted by the Bush administration.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Hamas (or its military wing) is designated a terrorist organization by most of what you often label, the "civilized world". Brushing this aside isn't going to change facts.

 

Hamas is not universally supported among Palestinians. It's 2006 elections victory was attributed more to voters discontent over issues of corruption, rather than being a full endorsement of Hamas policies.

 

Considering you often go on about the rights of the Palestinian diaspora, rejecting such views of pretext of location would be inconsistent, at best. All the more so coming from someone who is neither a Palestinian, nor a resident of either the Gaza Strip or the West Bank.

[dexterm]

In the 2006 free and fair democratic elections Hamas won 74 seats to its rivals' 45 despite Israel's attempt to disrupt by detaining 450 members of Hamas, banning candidates from holding rallies and public meetings plus other obstructions.
"The [Jimmy] Carter Center, which monitored the elections, criticised the [Israel] detentions of persons who "are guilty of nothing more than winning a parliamentary seat in an open and honest election"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006#Israeli_obstruction

 

So much for the only supposed democracy in the Middle East. 

 

The OP demonstrators at the fence damned if they try peaceful democratic co-existence with Israel via the ballot box, and , frustrated by the illegal Israeli blockade, and if the IDF use of live ammunition to stifle protests is anything to go by, apparently damned if you protest too.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Not that this is much on topic, but did Hamas offer "peaceful democratic co-existence with Israel"? Seem to recall the Palestinians didn't even manage much "peaceful democratic co-existence" among themselves. People thrown of buildings etc., rings a bell? And, of course, the blockade on the Gaza Strip (upheld by Egypt as well) - that wouldn't have anything to do with Hamas actions, agenda and policies?

 

Spins aside, Hamas (or its military wing) is designated a terrorist organization by most of what you label "the civilized world". Hamas rule of the Gaza Strip proved an utter failure (representing a large part of the driving force behind the current protests). Hamas's popularity is not entirely tied to its policies and stance, but to its main political adversary own failures.