webfact Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Dawn of the new Democrats? By JINTANA PANYAARVUDH THE NATION File photo: Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva during a rite at the party's head office. At 72 years of existence and repeated election losses, Thailand’s oldest political party is facing the biggest challenge in its history trying to rebrand itself ahead of the national election ON A RAINY morning last week, a handful of supporters came to the Democrat Party’s headquarters to confirm their membership, a requirement under the new Political Parties Act. The country’s oldest political party weathered thousands of heavy downpours and dozens of rainy seasons before celebrating its 72nd anniversary on April 6. Its headquarters has stood solidly at its current location on Setsiri Road for almost four decades. During all those years, many historical events – both happy and sorry – have taken place here. Cheers went up all around when the Democrats won an election and became the government. Tears and silence dominated the building after news of election losses. Over its long history, the party has often been criticised as “bureaucratic”, “conservative” and “only good at talking”. And now the Democrats aim to rebrand with a “fresh” selling point in an attempt to win the hearts of voters before the next election. Trying hard to get rid of those criticisms, party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva marked the party’s 72nd anniversary celebrations with an announcement of a “new era” by highlighting liberal democracy as its core value and distancing the party from the junta, which is looking to stay longer in power. Abhisit said recently that liberal democracy has been the party’s main ideology since its inception and, that is why it had been accepted into the Council of Asian Liberals and Democrats – a regional alliance that Abhisit chairs. The Democrats admit that the criticisms result from a “historical burden” – some past mistakes they could not correct. Democrat deputy leader Ongart Klampaiboon said that after 72 years of existence, the party needed to review itself because Thai society and the world have changed dynamically. “We need to identify who we are and we have chosen to embrace liberal democracy to move society forward,” Ongart told The Nation in a recent interview. However, observers doubt whether this new selling point of liberal democracy will turn into actual votes at the ballot box. “It is just ‘political discourse’ created by the Democrats – something they are good at,” said Yuttaporn Issarachai, a political scientist at Sukhothai Thammathirat Open University. “Such a political style may not be able to attract voters, because they look beyond the election to what is more relevant to their daily lives,” he added. To be liberal democrats, they need to talk about human rights or gender equality, but the Democrats have never been able to respond to such issues, the academic noted. The party has failed to win any general election since 1992. Critics say the Democrats’ political style and structure are major hurdles for it to become a true choice for everyone. As a long-established party, it is well known for its one-dimensional politics, using rhetoric in Parliament and localism, especially in the South, Yuttaporn said. Moreover, decision-making has often been dominated by the party’s key politicians from the South, which is its major stronghold, Yuttaporn said. Key party figures from other regions, – even Abhisit, whose political base is in Bangkok – need to depend on the help of “symbols of the South” such as chief party adviser Chuan Leekpai, or former secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban. Anti-dictatorship While highlighting liberal democracy, the party has kept its stance against dictatorship, Ongart said. And that is one of the Democrats’ weak points. Whenever they spoke out loud against dictatorship, as Abhisit did firmly in his speech on the party’s anniversary recently, it always came back to haunt them. This is because, in the eyes of many critics, what the party has said and what it has done have been totally opposite. Former Democrat deputy leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot said it’s normal for politicians to show that they are democratic as an election draws near. But for Abhisit, this may be difficult, because some of his own and his party’s stances in the past have raised doubts among the public and critics, Alongkorn added. Yuttaporn made the same point. He said the party could not avoid the fact that some of its members, including the leader, had joined the protests in 2013 held by the People’s Democratic Reform Council (PDRC) under Suthep Thaugsuban’s leadership. These protests paved the way for the coup staged by General Prayut Chan-o-cha, who was then the Army chief, to oust the elected Pheu Thai-led government. Moreover, many of their members resigned from the party at that time to join the PDRC in an attempt to distinguish their roles, but now they had returned to the Democrats. As a huge challenge lies ahead, Yuttaporn suggested that the Democrats restructure to be more responsive to new political dimensions, adding more new and younger members, and conducting a new party line. “The most important thing is not to play attacking politics [against rivals] and not to be too conservative, but to look forward – and this will enable more people to easily get access to the party,” he said. Alongkorn, who left the party almost four years ago, suggested that Abhisit focus on new themes to communicate with the public. For example, rather than talking about his opposition to dictatorship, which was an old theme, he should talk about how to reform the economy with new technology or how to use blockchain technology or digital trading to elevate the public sector and people’s quality of life. “Abhisit is smart and well aware of the modern world. He needs to cross over the past and old politics and create a new mindset, then he will be able to move a step forward to become an alternative choice,” he said. In Alongkorn’s view, whether Abhisit will continue his leadership position, the party’s stance towards democracy and the relationship between the party and Prayut government will all have an impact on the election result. Observers want to know whether the Democrats, who have very little chance of winning the next election outright, would support Prayut to become the next prime minister or join hands with the Pheu Thai Party to fight against any attempt to prolong the junta’s power after the election. Burden of history In defending his party, Ongart argued: “It’s not unusual that the Democrats are criticised about their ‘democrat-ness’. It is not a ‘stigma’. We can explain it. “Those [criticisms] are just ‘political discourse’ that we cannot avoid in a democratic society. And we cannot change people’s attitudes or beliefs within a short period of time.” The existing parties are facing more difficulties than new parties because the former have “the burden of history” while the latter have none, he said. Under the new era, the party also joined the trend of promoting fresh and young blood as new hopes for Thai politics in order to attract the youth vote. The new era of the party will see a mix of experienced politicians and enthusiastic young people who could help sustain the Democrats, Ongart added. “In fact, we do not ignore the young bloods. We have introduced many of them to work in the party,” he said. He cited the examples of Abhisit, who joined the party at the 1992 election, and Akanat Promphan, stepson of Suthep, who ran as an MP candidate in the 2011 election. But critics say these new members may be moulded by veteran party members who will stick to the old-fashioned political perspective. “Abhisit used to be the new hope when he was first introduced by the party in 1992 as a candidate for MP in Bangkok, but he could not do much [to improve the party],” Yuttaporn said. The analyst was not even certain that a new blood like Abhisit’s young nephew Parit Wacharasindhu, who recently sold his idea of promoting liberal democracy as a cure for what ails the country, would be able to bring change to the party. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30343720 -- © Copyright The Nation 2018-04-23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Samui Bodoh Posted April 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2018 What a pile of nonsense! The Democrat party is the paid whore of elements of the Thai establishment who trot it out when they need a 'pretty' to show the cameras. And by the way, who actually pays for the Democrats? I have asked on this forum many times, but only ever receive nonsense answers. Who pays? The party is a loooooong way past its 'use by' date. Like an old, faithful dog it is time to put it out of its misery and pain. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post canuckamuck Posted April 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2018 Actually I am hoping that the democrats are at least opposed to military rule. And perhaps there has been some fractures between the elites who want Thailand to modernize, (educate and promote innovation) and those elites who want to continue to rule over uneducated serfs despite the limitations it puts on the country. Impossible to tell, but if any party had the power to go this way, it would be a new version of the dems. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kannot Posted April 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2018 What they need is a "real man" like Gorbachov was back in the 80's in Russia, Abihisit is certainly NOT that man, he is same old same old and there will be NO changes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post YetAnother Posted April 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2018 58 minutes ago, webfact said: This is because, in the eyes of many critics, what the party has said and what it has done have been totally opposite. along with lack of effective representation against the 'bangkok powers', one of the reasons the reds exist, are many, are stronger and win elections 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Odysseus123 Posted April 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2018 But..but..we should all be pleased with their stated commitment to liberal democracy,should we not? These enormous "political manifesto's"-so Thai,so full of hot air,chronic insincerity and a singular incapacity to tell the truth on each and every occasion, makes for great morning reading. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Get Real Posted April 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2018 Did I just read illegal political propaganda promoting a specific party? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post yellowboat Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 hours ago, webfact said: “Abhisit is smart and well aware of the modern world. He needs to cross over the past and old politics and create a new mindset, then he will be able to move a step forward to become an alternative choice,” he said. Abhisit is heavily tainted. He needs to step aside. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anak Nakal Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Dem party 20 century. Now 21 century. Bye Bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post robblok Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 At least the democrats vote for their leader.. like in a real democracy.. can't say that from the PTP where an criminal pulls the strings. Guess real democracy is not needed in the PTP and their supporters don't really support a real democracy as I never seen them comment about stuff like this. 4 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric Loh Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 If he is smart, he should not be a liability to his party with his past and resign as the leader. As long as he remain the leader, the re-branding and image change will be arduous. Nothing against him personally but he should think more for the party than his own pride. He really has nothing to look forward to in his political future. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pornprong Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 52 minutes ago, robblok said: At least the democrats vote for their leader.. like in a real democracy.. can't say that from the PTP where an criminal pulls the strings. Guess real democracy is not needed in the PTP and their supporters don't really support a real democracy as I never seen them comment about stuff like this. “We need to identify who we are and we have chosen to embrace liberal democracy to move society forward,” The fact that the Democrats have to announce that they are actually for democracy tells you all you need to know about them. It amazes me how pro-junta acolytes such as yourself are so quick to criticise PTP / Thaksin for the tiniest slight, be it real or imagined, whilst at the same time being able to ignore the very real and egregious crimes / shortcomings of the Junta / Elites / Democrats. The Democrats have spent the last 18 years doing all they can to thwart democracy. Many people have died because of their war against democracy. The nation has lost a great fortune for the same reason. What a spectacular feat of self delusion you continue to perform day after day, year after year.. I am impressed. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post robblok Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, pornprong said: “We need to identify who we are and we have chosen to embrace liberal democracy to move society forward,” The fact that the Democrats have to announce that they are actually for democracy tells you all you need to know about them. It amazes me how pro-junta acolytes such as yourself are so quick to criticise PTP / Thaksin for the tiniest slight, be it real or imagined, whilst at the same time being able to ignore the very real and egregious crimes / shortcomings of the Junta / Elites / Democrats. The Democrats have spent the last 18 years doing all they can to thwart democracy. Many people have died because of their war against democracy. The nation has lost a great fortune for the same reason. What a spectacular feat of self delusion you continue to perform day after day, year after year.. I am impressed. I am amazed you call me pro junta.. as i critised them often and want an election. I am amazed at red followers like yourself who have a hard time admitting that the PTP is far from democratic and if the democrat members elect their leader its light years ahaed of a criminal telling them who is the leader (actually having a criminal lead the PTP is more that a tiny slight) Then again I did not expect any differently from a red supporter. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pornprong Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, robblok said: I am amazed you call me pro junta.. as i critised them often and want an election. I am amazed at red followers like yourself who have a hard time admitting that the PTP is far from democratic and if the democrat members elect their leader its light years ahaed of a criminal telling them who is the leader (actually having a criminal lead the PTP is more that a tiny slight) Then again I did not expect any differently from a red supporter. Of course you're pro-junta. Just because you've toned down your fawning over the fascists that have again stolen a country from it's people because everything every sane person said about them at the time of the coup has been so clearly exposed as being the truth that even the most self deluded ignoramus cannot deny the Junta are a bust......does not mean you are not pro-junta, it just means you're embarrassed about your junta-love and not intellectually or morally strong enough to admit your mistake. PTP operate in a similar fashion to political parties the world over. I don't get to vote for who will be the PM of my country - I vote for a MP who then votes in his party caucus for a party leader who will be PM should they win an election. Do you think the current campaign to build up Abhisit's nephew is anything other than nepotism, or is it democracy at work? What is more important, how a party selects its leadership or whether a party accepts the results of general elections? Very easy question and very obvious implications for the Democrats and there relationship with democracy. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eligius Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, pornprong said: Of course you're pro-junta. Just because you've toned down your fawning over the fascists that have again stolen a country from it's people because everything every sane person said about them at the time of the coup has been so clearly exposed as being the truth that even the most self deluded ignoramus cannot deny the Junta are a bust......does not mean you are not pro-junta, it just means you're embarrassed about your junta-love and not intellectually or morally strong enough to admit your mistake. PTP operate in a similar fashion to political parties the world over. I don't get to vote for who will be the PM of my country - I vote for a MP who then votes in his party caucus for a party leader who will be PM should they win an election. Do you think the current campaign to build up Abhisit's nephew is anything other than nepotism, or is it democracy at work? What is more important, how a party selects its leadership or whether a party accepts the results of general elections? Very easy question and very obvious implications for the Democrats and there relationship with democracy. Even if one was initially pro-junta - which I never was - it surely should only have taken a handful of weeks to see how mendacious and corrupt the junta actually were and are. Within a few weeks of seizing power through the implicit threat of mass violence, Prayut appointed his own brother to an important government position. This is the 'end all nepotism, end all corruption' guy! Then a short time later he went down to Koh Tao and promised to reward the 'police' who had stitched up the poor Burmese Two for the rape and murder of the two British tourists. Scum, scum, SCUM (and I don't mean the Burmese Boys). Yes, it was so very, very difficult to discern the true nature of the junta. It really needed four years to do so, didn't it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Odysseus123 Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, Eligius said: Even if one was initially pro-junta - which I never was - it surely should only have taken a handful of weeks to see how mendacious and corrupt the junta actually were and are. Within a few weeks of seizing power through the implicit threat of mass violence, Prayut appointed his own brother to an important government position. This is the 'end all nepotism, end all corruption' guy! Then a short time later he went down to Koh Tao and promised to reward the 'police' who had stitched up the poor Burmese Two for the rape and murder of the two British tourists. Scum, scum, SCUM (and I don't mean the Burmese Boys). Yes, it was so very, very difficult to discern the true nature of the junta. It really needed four years to do so, didn't it?! You must be a red...you must be a red..you must be a red..or,at the very least,distinctly puce.. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post seajae Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 38 minutes ago, pornprong said: Of course you're pro-junta. Just because you've toned down your fawning over the fascists that have again stolen a country from it's people because everything every sane person said about them at the time of the coup has been so clearly exposed as being the truth that even the most self deluded ignoramus cannot deny the Junta are a bust......does not mean you are not pro-junta, it just means you're embarrassed about your junta-love and not intellectually or morally strong enough to admit your mistake. PTP operate in a similar fashion to political parties the world over. I don't get to vote for who will be the PM of my country - I vote for a MP who then votes in his party caucus for a party leader who will be PM should they win an election. Do you think the current campaign to build up Abhisit's nephew is anything other than nepotism, or is it democracy at work? What is more important, how a party selects its leadership or whether a party accepts the results of general elections? Very easy question and very obvious implications for the Democrats and there relationship with democracy. hahahahaha, mate what a load , in any other country thaksin would not be able to own/run and direct any party, let alone lead the govt from overseas, he is a wanted criminal in case you have forgotten, hiding from justice and further criminal trials, the ptp is his baby. Admittedly most politicians in Thailand are not worthy of their positions but thaksin while being popular is the biggest criminal of them all with suthep not far behind. Thailand allows much of what any other country would not, many high up govt officials would be spending years in jail for what they have done, so would the ones that carried out their orders, to be honest I doubt there are any worthy politicians in all the current bunch. Thailand really does need a party that is there for the people and not themselves which ptp and dems(plus the smaller ones) are, unfortunately all these people see is the money they can make if they are elected, the people need a party that does not allow graft & corruption to run rampant, one that does what is right for the population and not just themselves but I doubt we will ever see it as money is just too important to thais 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KiwiKiwi Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said: What a pile of nonsense! The Democrat party is the paid whore of elements of the Thai establishment who trot it out when they need a 'pretty' to show the cameras. And by the way, who actually pays for the Democrats? I have asked on this forum many times, but only ever receive nonsense answers. Who pays? The party is a loooooong way past its 'use by' date. Like an old, faithful dog it is time to put it out of its misery and pain. Agree. I strongly suspect that their (even further) decline is due to an uneducated populace belatedly waking up to the truth that they are parasites and represent the interests of even bigger parasites. My advice? Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do. And take no notice of them trying to distance themselves from Suthep and Buddha Issara, that's just putting lipstick on a very ugly pig. Edited April 23, 2018 by KiwiKiwi 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pornprong Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, seajae said: hahahahaha, mate what a load , in any other country thaksin would not be able to own/run and direct any party, let alone lead the govt from overseas, he is a wanted criminal in case you have forgotten, hiding from justice and further criminal trials, the ptp is his baby. Admittedly most politicians in Thailand are not worthy of their positions but thaksin while being popular is the biggest criminal of them all with suthep not far behind. Thailand allows much of what any other country would not, many high up govt officials would be spending years in jail for what they have done, so would the ones that carried out their orders, to be honest I doubt there are any worthy politicians in all the current bunch. Thailand really does need a party that is there for the people and not themselves which ptp and dems(plus the smaller ones) are, unfortunately all these people see is the money they can make if they are elected, the people need a party that does not allow graft & corruption to run rampant, one that does what is right for the population and not just themselves but I doubt we will ever see it as money is just too important to thais More pro-junta nonsense. If no political parties are good enough I guess it just means Thais will just have to be happy with unelected Juntas huh? Junta's, of course, are well known for putting the people before all else, never being corrupt, never allowing nepotism and never enriching themselves. Everything you accuse Thaksin of, the Junta are greater offenders. What do you junta noddies think, that if you throw in one or two slights against the Democrats then suddenly your twisted views are impartial and no longer one eyed anti-democratic pro-fascist junta love? Sorry mate, those who haven't drank the kool aid see straight through you. Let the Thai people vote and choose for themselves who they want leading the country. All your Thaksin nonsense is merely a diversion to prevent free elections - you should be ashamed. Edited April 23, 2018 by pornprong 5 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BobBKK Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 Abhisit lost all credibility when he said nothing when the thugs took over the government. He is just spineless and will never get a large support base which, to be honest, should have been easy but it's obvious the Dems are puppets of the Deep State Amaart. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eligius Posted April 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, pornprong said: Let the Thai people vote and choose for themselves who they want leading the country. Your above words, Pornprong, are the heart of the matter. It does not matter whether we Westerners loathe Thaksin or Yingluck and their works (or love them - whatever): it is a question of the Thais' having the absolute RIGHT to choose who administers THEIR country ('the sovereignty belongs to the Thai people', remember the words of even the new Constitution?). It takes time for democracies to mature and develop. But if fascists with guns keep turning the clock back to Year Zero every ten years - then the will of the people, and the steady advance of democracy, is fatally blocked. I don't see how anyone with any basic sense of justice can support that. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seajae Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, pornprong said: More pro-junta nonsense. If no political parties are good enough just mean Thais will just have to be happy with unelected Juntas huh? Junta's, of course, are well known for putting the people before all else, never being corrupt, never allowing nepotism and never enriching themselves. Everything you accuse Thaksin of, the Junta are greater offenders. What do you junta noddies think, that if you throw in one or two slights against the Democrats then suddenly your twisted views are impartial and no longer one eyed anti-democratic pro-fascist junta love? Sorry mate, those who haven't drank the kool aid see straight through you. Let the Thai people vote and choose for themselves who they want leading the country. All your Thaksin nonsense is merely a diversion to prevent free elections - you should be ashamed. hahahah, love the way anyone that disagrees with you is pro junta, shows how pathetic your thinking really is. I actually read up on what is happening, what "parties" do and promise then make up my own mind about what is best unlike you who refuses to accept the truth about thaksin and the ptp. In Australia I have voted for both major parties based purely on their policies, you know, the things that tell you what the govt will do for its population. I do exactly the same here with my thinking, I saw the junta take over as good as it stopped the murders/violencefrom the reds that the ptp refused to do. I saw the start of the arrests for corruption as good too, unfortunately the junta didnt follow through on what they said they would do, so like most others I saw that they were no different to the other parties. I dont support any party or person here as I dont believe any are worth supporting, what I do is speak the truth as I see it, something you appear to be incapable of but then again you may well just be a troll looking for a reaction, as I said, really pathetic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just now, seajae said: hahahah, love the way anyone that disagrees with you is pro junta, shows how pathetic your thinking really is. I actually read up on what is happening, what "parties" do and promise then make up my own mind about what is best unlike you who refuses to accept the truth about thaksin and the ptp. In Australia I have voted for both major parties based purely on their policies, you know, the things that tell you what the govt will do for its population. I do exactly the same here with my thinking, I saw the junta take over as good as it stopped the murders/violencefrom the reds that the ptp refused to do. I saw the start of the arrests for corruption as good too, unfortunately the junta didnt follow through on what they said they would do, so like most others I saw that they were no different to the other parties. I dont support any party or person here as I dont believe any are worth supporting, what I do is speak the truth as I see it, something you appear to be incapable of but then again you may well just be a troll looking for a reaction, as I said, really pathetic You may HUFF and you may PUFF but it is clear Pornprong speaks to the truth. If you really believe that the whole 'troubles' were not a set-up to again take the country by force I'm speechless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justfine Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Every Democrat party around the world is a dud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornprong Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, seajae said: hahahah, love the way anyone that disagrees with you is pro junta, shows how pathetic your thinking really is. I actually read up on what is happening, what "parties" do and promise then make up my own mind about what is best unlike you who refuses to accept the truth about thaksin and the ptp. In Australia I have voted for both major parties based purely on their policies, you know, the things that tell you what the govt will do for its population. I do exactly the same here with my thinking, I saw the junta take over as good as it stopped the murders/violencefrom the reds that the ptp refused to do. I saw the start of the arrests for corruption as good too, unfortunately the junta didnt follow through on what they said they would do, so like most others I saw that they were no different to the other parties. I dont support any party or person here as I dont believe any are worth supporting, what I do is speak the truth as I see it, something you appear to be incapable of but then again you may well just be a troll looking for a reaction, as I said, really pathetic You don't speak the truth, you regurgitate propaganda in support of denying citizens a say in how THEIR country is governed. Reading ain't gonna help you much unless you first remove the fascist tinted lenses. Your "thinking" is at odds with everything Australia stands for. https://foreignminister.gov.au/releases/Pages/2014/jb_mr_140531.aspx?w=tb1CaGpkPX%2FlS0K%2Bg9ZKEg%3D%3D Pathetic is an understatement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seajae Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, BobBKK said: You may HUFF and you may PUFF but it is clear Pornprong speaks to the truth. If you really believe that the whole 'troubles' were not a set-up to again take the country by force I'm speechless. I saw the way the reds were killing women and children with no govt/police action to stop it, thats all the concern I had. Maybe you lot think that a few innocent deaths are nothing but I disagree, all the ptp had to do was stop the reds and there would have been no excuse for the take over, they didnt because the reds are their puppets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seajae Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 minute ago, pornprong said: You don't speak the truth, you regurgitate propaganda in support of denying citizens a say in how THEIR country is governed. Reading ain't gonna help you much unless you first remove the fascist tinted lenses. Your "thinking" is at odds with everything Australia stands for. https://foreignminister.gov.au/releases/Pages/2014/jb_mr_140531.aspx?w=tb1CaGpkPX%2FlS0K%2Bg9ZKEg%3D%3D Pathetic is an understatement. I havent lived in Australia for a long time so it has nothing to do with me & I dont repeat propaganda like you, I state facts that are proven and backed up by other sources, mate, you are just a loser trying to push your own crap on others. Love the way you are not bright enough to realize just how pathetic you(and your red mates) are becoming with what you write, always good for a laugh if nothing else 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornprong Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, seajae said: I saw the way the reds were killing women and children with no govt/police action to stop it, thats all the concern I had. Maybe you lot think that a few innocent deaths are nothing but I disagree, all the ptp had to do was stop the reds and there would have been no excuse for the take over, they didnt because the reds are their puppets. How can you type such nonsense. You are so far away from reality, so blinded by prejudice. Pauline Hanson would be very proud of you. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-samineh-i-shaheem-/sincerity-of-self-deception_b_9246296.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pornprong Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, seajae said: I havent lived in Australia for a long time so it has nothing to do with me & I dont repeat propaganda like you, I state facts that are proven and backed up by other sources, mate, you are just a loser trying to push your own crap on others. Love the way you are not bright enough to realize just how pathetic you(and your red mates) are becoming with what you write, always good for a laugh if nothing else What facts have you stated, what legitimate sources have you cited? None that I can see. Your heavy reliance on ad hominem nonsense sheds light on the weakness of your arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seajae Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, pornprong said: How can you type such nonsense. You are so far away from reality, so blinded by prejudice. Pauline Hanson would be very proud of you. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-samineh-i-shaheem-/sincerity-of-self-deception_b_9246296.html thats it keep digging yourself in deeper and deeper, hahahahahaha, waitng for the full dummy spit now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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