7 hours ago, webfact said:

“We need to identify who we are and we have chosen to embrace liberal democracy to move society forward,” Ongart told The Nation in a recent interview.

"We need to identify who we are" = We aren't sure either, but we have to be something.

"we have chosen to embrace liberal democracy" = We don't actually believe it, but maybe the voters will, it's worth a shot.

21 minutes ago, pornprong said:

What facts have you stated, what legitimate sources have you cited?

None that I can see.

Your heavy reliance on ad hominem nonsense sheds light on the weakness of your arguments.

There is absolutely no question whether or not Thaksin promoted violence to recover power. If you don't believe it listen to the man himself and his acolytes.

 

 

4 hours ago, robblok said:

At least the democrats vote for their leader.. like in a real democracy.. can't say that from the PTP where an criminal pulls the strings. 

 

Guess real democracy is not needed in the PTP and their supporters don't really support a real democracy as I never seen them comment about stuff like this.

Short (or selective) memory....?

In a real democracy parties participate in elections.....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-25475644

43 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

There is absolutely no question whether or not Thaksin promoted violence to recover power. If you don't believe it listen to the man himself and his acolytes.

 

 

Not sure how the military slaughtering 100 citizens furthers your cause????

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

There is absolutely no question whether or not Thaksin promoted violence to recover power. If you don't believe it listen to the man himself and his acolytes.

 

 

I personally - and I am sure the vast majority of us here - don't welcome violence against people from any quarter. I deplore it.

 

HOWEVER:

 

There is also state violence and state terror: when a well-armed military seizes hold of an entire nation against its will and effectively holds up a gun to the head of every single man, woman and child in that nation if they step out of the 'junta line' - that is every bit as violent as a few burned-down buildings in Bangkok.

 

Also, note how in the video above, Thaksin is actually saying again and again that he urges peaceful measures. Note also how the media (and I was there at the time) only harped on about the burning buildings and did NOT constantly deplore how over 90 Thai civilians were slaughtered in cold blood - and that THAT is why there was a burning down of buildings in angry response. Burning buildings (and as far as I know, nobody was killed inside them) is nothing as to slaughtering  human lives and firebombing an entire nation's freedom, rights and democracy.

 

The dissidents on the streets of Bangkok in 2010 were standing up to what they saw (THEY saw - note, mods!) as a coming Dictatorship.

 

Subsequent events have proven them entirely wrong - of course ....

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 20188 yr by Eligius

4 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Abhisit is heavily tainted.  He needs to step aside. 

Agreed. High time for him to take the cue of his old Eton pal, David Cameron after he had backed the losing side in the Brexit referendum.

1 hour ago, pornprong said:

What facts have you stated, what legitimate sources have you cited?

None that I can see.

Your heavy reliance on ad hominem nonsense sheds light on the weakness of your arguments.

Fact, had you been around Issan at the time of the red invasion, On highway 2   from Nong Khai to BKK  the pre paid trucks,  pick-ups,-buses, cars full of reds heading for BKK. They were equipped with weapons ready for an arranged BKK street war.

Who were in charge of the reds   ????   who allowed them to pass through 3 Mega cities on route  ??   Mr Thaksins controlled police.    Where did the poor farmer get their money from for the long ordeal   ???    Suppose it was an individual thing going and all were suprised at the roads full of their pre paid people.     Issan people always believed red villages would support them --but it was the rice millers that got the share, the people stayed poor.     Maybe if you had lived in a red village you would have more Gorm.

My understanding of Thai politics is limited.  I moved here immediately after the coup occurred.  I was an interested observer while researching my move to Thailand.

 

The Democrats in Thailand appear to be anything but democratic.  As they lost election after election they always promoted the intervention of the military to change the rules and depose those that beat them.  They are perceived as the protector of the Bangkok Hi-So clique.  As such, I doubt they will dominate the next elections or any elections in the future.  The vast majority of Thais do not live in Bangkok!

2 hours ago, ginjag said:

Fact, had you been around Issan at the time of the red invasion, On highway 2   from Nong Khai to BKK  the pre paid trucks,  pick-ups,-buses, cars full of reds heading for BKK. They were equipped with weapons ready for an arranged BKK street war.

Who were in charge of the reds   ????   who allowed them to pass through 3 Mega cities on route  ??   Mr Thaksins controlled police.    Where did the poor farmer get their money from for the long ordeal   ???    Suppose it was an individual thing going and all were suprised at the roads full of their pre paid people.     Issan people always believed red villages would support them --but it was the rice millers that got the share, the people stayed poor.     Maybe if you had lived in a red village you would have more Gorm.

Nonsense.

10 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Nonsense.

????  I lived in a red village-------your remark is biased and a lie---my post is the truth of the events leading up to the BKK siege.

Why on earth would you say nonsense ???     nothing more than this straight answer on my remarks in my post----please tell me where I lied   ???       Do not add any other pro red bull--------because you should answer the remark nonsense.  If you cannot answer a straight reply  do not bother

Edited April 23, 20188 yr by ginjag

5 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Nonsense.

Arisaman threatening to burn Bangkok down

 

5 minutes ago, bannork said:

Arisaman threatening to burn Bangkok down

 

At this point in time, how many citizens had the army shot dead?

7 minutes ago, ginjag said:

????  I lived in a red village-------your remark is biased and a lie---my post is the truth of the events leading up to the BKK siege.

Why on earth would you say nonsense ???     nothing more than this straight answer on my remarks in my post----please tell me where I lied   ???       Do not add any other pro red bull--------because you should answer the remark nonsense.  If you cannot answer a straight reply  do not bother

Pure nonsense.

Just now, pornprong said:

At this point in time, how many citizens had the army shot dead?

 

Just now, pornprong said:

At this point in time, how many citizens had the army shot dead?

Very very few. 

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

Very very few. 

You are unsurprisingly incorrect.

 

"BANGKOK — A bloody crackdown in Bangkok by the Thai military set off rioting and arson attacks on Wednesday in several places across Thailand, threatening to expand unrest and further aggravate the deep rifts that have hobbled Thai society for the past four years."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/world/asia/20thai.html?pagewanted=all

8 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Pure nonsense.

So you could not verify my post-------so you must have an agenda.

 

If someone tells me a fact no matter who's side I would have to  agree------

7 minutes ago, pornprong said:

You are unsurprisingly incorrect.

 

"BANGKOK — A bloody crackdown in Bangkok by the Thai military set off rioting and arson attacks on Wednesday in several places across Thailand, threatening to expand unrest and further aggravate the deep rifts that have hobbled Thai society for the past four years."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/world/asia/20thai.html?pagewanted=all

All the things said on that tape happened before the crackdown.

Edited April 23, 20188 yr by bannork

17 minutes ago, pornprong said:

At this point in time, how many citizens had the army shot dead?

You see my point,    please go to the fact board and tell us how many the army shot  and why,   you think they did it for fun ??    I do know there were killings  both sides blamed the other.

 

No red army barricaded in  BKK   no burning --no occupation of BKK--No Thaksin police about,  did you notice  ??

Edited April 23, 20188 yr by ginjag

28 minutes ago, ginjag said:

????  I lived in a red village-------your remark is biased and a lie---my post is the truth of the events leading up to the BKK siege.

Why on earth would you say nonsense ???     nothing more than this straight answer on my remarks in my post----please tell me where I lied   ???       Do not add any other pro red bull--------because you should answer the remark nonsense.  If you cannot answer a straight reply  do not bother

Fantasy Monday dear Ginjag. What is not fantasy was that the military used excessive force and mulled down protesters including nurse and reporters. 

7 minutes ago, ginjag said:

You see my point,    please go to the fact board and tell us how many the army shot  and why,   you think they did it for fun ??    I do know there were killings  both sides blamed the other.

 

No red army barricaded in  BKK   no burning --no occupation of BKK--No Thaksin police about,  did you notice  ??

The PAD occupied government house for 7 months, Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang airports and military stayed away. Didn't you noticed??? 

13 minutes ago, ginjag said:

You see my point,    please go to the fact board and tell us how many the army shot  and why,   you think they did it for fun ??    I do know there were killings  both sides blamed the other.

 

No red army barricaded in  BKK   no burning --no occupation of BKK--No Thaksin police about,  did you notice  ??

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjv4NKJl9DaAhWJMY8KHYDQArgQFggnMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hrw.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Freports%2Fthailand0511webwcover_0.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1WvLeQXIcITM7O31Wd6put

 

It took 2 coups to create the Red shirts.

No coups = no red shirts.

Edited April 23, 20188 yr by pornprong

1 minute ago, pornprong said:

 

It took 2 coups to create the Red shirts.

No coups = no red shirts.

No Thaksin , no coup. From 1992 to 2006 there were peaceful transitions of governments. The 1997 constitution was a great piece of work but no one saw the rise of a egomaniac rich beyond belief.

3 hours ago, ginjag said:

Fact, had you been around Issan at the time of the red invasion, On highway 2   from Nong Khai to BKK  the pre paid trucks,  pick-ups,-buses, cars full of reds heading for BKK. They were equipped with weapons ready for an arranged BKK street war.

Who were in charge of the reds   ????   who allowed them to pass through 3 Mega cities on route  ??   Mr Thaksins controlled police.    Where did the poor farmer get their money from for the long ordeal   ???    Suppose it was an individual thing going and all were suprised at the roads full of their pre paid people.     Issan people always believed red villages would support them --but it was the rice millers that got the share, the people stayed poor.     Maybe if you had lived in a red village you would have more Gorm.

Gingag.....More nonsense....

 

So in 2010 Thaksin controlled the police? He left the country 2008...

 

Why wasn't the red warriors not stopped by the army? The elite is normally not shy to use the guys in green, when it serves their purposes...

In charge of law and order in Thailand in 2010 was the undemocratic Khun Abhisit....

 

And some friendly advice.....Change the record   !!!    You have been going on about your red village for more than 6 years.....

5 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The PAD occupied government house for 7 months, Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang airports and military stayed away. Didn't you noticed??? 

Eric I answered a post honestly and said both sides were guilty of killings, one was a Thai army trying to end the siege, the other your Thaksin Thugs.     why didn't you reply to the points posted--OH NO  you had to set up another Thaksin agenda post.     My first post was the events leading up to the BKK siege, and why it was allowed to happen--since then your agenda people have come out in force.    Why don't you give it a break and not  escalate on this topic about  ???    have you forgotten what it is Eric,  it was just about a Democratic party setting it's self up for an election

1 minute ago, JOC said:

Gingag.....More nonsense....

 

So in 2010 Thaksin controlled the police? He left the country 2008...

 

Why wasn't the red warriors not stopped by the army? The elite is normally not shy to use the guys in green, when it serves their purposes...

In charge of law and order in Thailand in 2010 was the undemocratic Khun Abhisit....

 

And some friendly advice.....Change the record   !!!    You have been going on about your red village for more than 6 years.....

An interesting article about the Thai police and Thaksin.

http://www.newmandala.org/thai-police-intent-to-reform/ 

2 minutes ago, JOC said:

Gingag.....More nonsense....

 

So in 2010 Thaksin controlled the police? He left the country 2008...

 

Why wasn't the red warriors not stopped by the army? The elite is normally not shy to use the guys in green, when it serves their purposes...

In charge of law and order in Thailand in 2010 was the undemocratic Khun Abhisit....

 

And some friendly advice.....Change the record   !!!    You have been going on about your red village for more than 6 years.....

Thaksin left but his top brass did not leave  most are still  there--FACT

excuse me it should have been the police job to prevent a build up in all communities---FACT

Democratic was Thaksin  ha ha ha

Your red record has not changed 

FACT  I did not reside in the red village for 6 years  FACT---stop some untruths  Eric.    Move on.

hopefully Thailand can be run with non corrupt people,  but doubt it.

6 minutes ago, bannork said:

No Thaksin , no coup. From 1992 to 2006 there were peaceful transitions of governments. The 1997 constitution was a great piece of work but no one saw the rise of a egomaniac rich beyond belief.

Fact: Thaksin is the only elected PM who has served a full 4 year term since 1932.

 

He was ousted by the army serving the elite.....When they (the elite) realized that, he and the reds were a threat to their entitlement....!!

And this is all related to the "Dawn of the New Democrats" how exactly?

 

Why don't all of you get a room and consummate the relationship? I hear there is one in Pattaya that is used for these sort of purposes...

 

It's 2018.

 

Time to move on...

 

3 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Eric I answered a post honestly and said both sides were guilty of killings, one was a Thai army trying to end the siege, the other your Thaksin Thugs.     why didn't you reply to the points posted--OH NO  you had to set up another Thaksin agenda post.     My first post was the events leading up to the BKK siege, and why it was allowed to happen--since then your agenda people have come out in force.    Why don't you give it a break and not  escalate on this topic about  ???    have you forgotten what it is Eric,  it was just about a Democratic party setting it's self up for an election

What I posted was all about the topic. The occupation of government house and airports lead to the Dem Party ascension to be an unpopular government. That blemish was one of the few black marks that the party self inflict thus the re-branding. 

 

That military coerced parliament election that leads to Ahbisit being the PM enraged the people and they came out to seek a re-election. They have the right to protest under the constitution. The military could have use other means of force to disperse the protesters. They didn't and 80 civilians were killed and it was Ahbisit government that authorized live rounds. That's the fact. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, JOC said:

Fact: Thaksin is the only elected PM who has served a full 4 year term since 1932.

 

He was ousted by the army serving the elite.....When they (the elite) realized that, he and the reds were a threat to their entitlement....!!

Repeat about him  bla bla bla......you are not the only one knowing this---GET IT, have to sometime use the odd large case to get through to you we do not want to be bombarded with things we know about...YAWN  stick to topic,  my posts are answers,  you are raising and  digging up argument--stop  it for gods sake---starting the bickering to get the mod to delete  ?? what's your point