Cameroon men arrested as alleged ‘Black Money’ gang members

[Kieran00001]

24 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

I was thinking that the money was not actually being copied. He was conned into believing it was. Explain to me how that can be a conspiracy. 

 

Whether they conspired or not is not the question, as clearly they thought they were conspiring, however the UK law exempts these victims, in my opinion, wrongly.

 

"Co-conspirator is a victim of intended offence

1.49 Under the current law, a person cannot be guilty of a conspiracy to commit an offence if he or she is the intended victim of that offence."

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

They made him believe that they could carry out what would be an illegal act, if they could actually do it.........but they could not. The whole point of this was to make the Omani guy believe that they could do it. In that they succeeded by showing what was in essence a conjuring trick. There may have been an element of 'mens rea' but there was no element of 'actus reus' and to establish that it must be proved that the accused person was responsible for an act prohibited by criminal law. He allowed himself to be conned by a number of persons using trickery, which makes him the victim. He could not be said to be conspiring because he was the 'mark' in this and was not a party to the whole point of the con.

 

No, but he thought he was a party in a different con, a counter-fitting money con.  Now, this guy will walk free, however what happens when he meets some real counter-fitters, will he be a reformed man or will he still be keen to invest in counter fitting money?  Clearly the man is not just a victim of their scam, he is also a failed criminal. 

[sjbrownderby]

2 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

You are crazy if you believe that the Omani officials would think like that. 

You know how they would think? First of all you would have to establish if an offence had been committed under Omani Law, in Thailand. Such an offence would necessarily involve foreign nationals committing said offence in a foreign country. That is way too complicated. 

[sjbrownderby]

19 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

Whether they conspired or not is not the question, as clearly they thought they were conspiring, however the UK law exempts these victims, in my opinion, wrongly.

Okay, now I understand. Your previous statement re conspiracy was only based on your opinion and not based on current law. 

[jenny2017]

The victim said the Cameroon men disappeared and he could not contact anyone. It turned out that the conmen managed to switch real money with a bundle of white paper.

 

    A criminal met a criminal.......

[Destiny1990]

They scumbags he tries a pathetic Wai but he will be in jail for decades? Som Na Na. My Thai landscape guy lost 2,000,000 bht to scumbags like that.. Zero mercy they scam anyone they can and keep come back till u got nothing left!

Another African coming to Thailand not for a holiday!

[sjbrownderby]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

They scumbags he tries a pathetic Wai but he will be in jail for decades

The Wai is one of the few things you can do successfully when you are wearing handcuffs. 

[jossthaifarang]

Not a victim.. An accomplice, he should be charged together with them! 

[IamNoone88]

Cops rounded them up pretty quick. Hardly a cold case .....

[Lucky mike]

Now you see it now you don't ! Anything too good to be true ?

[Acemaker]

2 hours ago, dave moir said:

Greed is an amazing thing!!?

Greed is Good.   ( Michael Douglas / Wall Street Movie )

[Kieran00001]

40 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

Okay, now I understand. Your previous statement re conspiracy was only based on your opinion and not based on current law. 

 

Not exactly, he was involved in a conspiracy, that is not an opinion, that is a fact.  However the law makes an exemption for those involved in conspiracies who were only involved as a means to con them.

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

The Omani moron is just as guilty, but he should be arrested for nothing else than being as dumb as a bag of bolts for falling for it .....

or charged with conspiracy to forge banknotes, ought to be worth a few years inside.

[sjbrownderby]

15 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

Not a victim.. An accomplice, he should be charged together with them! 

Not sure how you see that, unless you are opining.

1. He was led to believe that he was buying the gold cheap

2. He was led to believe that the seller wanted to sell more than originally stated but just as cheap as the original 5 kg he was led to believe he was buying.

3. He was led to believe that the Cameroonians could change his 4 million baht, in Omani ryals, into the 12 million         necessary to buy the gold

4. He was led to believe that his fellow countryman would accept 8 million baht (equivalent) in fake money in payment for what he was led to believe was real gold

 This is clearly a many who is too stupid to be a criminal.

 

[Kieran00001]

9 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

Not sure how you see that, unless you are opining.

1. He was led to believe that he was buying the gold cheap

2. He was led to believe that the seller wanted to sell more than originally stated

3. He was led to believe that the Cameroonians could change his 4 million baht, in Omani ryals, into the 12 million         necessary to buy the gold

4. He was led to believe that his fellow countryman would accept 8 million baht (equivalent) in fake money in payment for what he was led to believe was real gold

 This is clearly a many who is too stupid to be a criminal.

 

 

I have been quoting UK law, Thai law doesn't seem to make an exception for those who were conned.

[Philemon]

Good for him

[sjbrownderby]

8 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

I have been quoting UK law, Thai law doesn't seem to make an exception for those who were conned

It would take an admission of guilt by the Cameroonians to make the conspiracy complete, otherwise all you have is the word of the victim who was led to believe that he may have been involved in a conspiracy .................that, according to the Cameroonians (if they do not admit it),  did not exist. Proceeding in that direction is fraught with legal danger. 

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

It would take an admission of guilt by the Cameroonians to make the conspiracy complete, otherwise all you have is the word of the victim who was led to believe that he may have been involved in a conspiracy .................that, according to the Cameroonians (if they do not admit it),  did not exist. Proceeding in that direction is fraught with legal danger. 

 

I don't think that is how the law works.  The victim has admitted to his conspiracy to counterfeit money by using the services of the Cameroonians, there is no 'may have been', he states what he wanted to do, which was have his money copied.  Whats is this "legal danger" you speak of?

You might care to consider the many entrapment cases, where customs pose as drug suppliers and dupe wannabe smugglers into thinking they are conspiring to buy drugs, there was never any drugs, yet they are charged with conspiracy.

[The Deerhunter]

4 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Sounds more like a magic show reading this now you see it now you don't story.

Get Detectives Penn & Teller onto it. 

[saminoz]

3 hours ago, sjbrownderby said:

What could you charge him with? Although he was fooled into thinking he could make more money the perpetrators did not actually have the means to re-produce banknotes, counterfeit or otherwise, so he could hardly be said to be conspiring. It was all sleight of hand and the Omani guy fell for it. 

He was a willing accomplice in a failed attempt to forge a considerable amount of currency. Of course he is guilty!

If he'd been part of a gang breaking into a bank to steal money and they found the vault empty, would he still be innocent?

There was intent to commit a serious fraud.  Guilty.

 

[Docno]

Hmmm... if had at least half his brain connected, he should have wondered, "if they can print their own money, why even bother selling the gold?"

[sjbrownderby]

43 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

I don't think that is how the law works.  The victim has admitted to his conspiracy to counterfeit money by using the services of the Cameroonians, there is no 'may have been', he states what he wanted to do, which was have his money copied.  Whats is this "legal danger" you speak of?

You might care to consider the many entrapment cases, where customs pose as drug suppliers and dupe wannabe smugglers into thinking they are conspiring to buy drugs, there was never any drugs, yet they are charged with conspiracy.

First of all the Cameroonians never had the intention of counter-fitting the money neither did they have the means to do so. The fact that the victim claims that the Cameroonians told him they could counterfeit the money would fall flat if the Cameroonians said the man was lying or even said nothing when questioned by the police. That would mean evidence of the conspiracy would be only the word of someone you would have us believe is a criminal himself anyway, and therefore less than honest. That would be the legal danger of pursuing that particular tack.............the conspiracy in this case falls flat if there is no corroborating evidence. Also, how would you get the full cooperation of the victim if you were to pursue a criminal prosecution against him? Your comparison does not hold water when you consider that drug dealers are drug dealers, the Cameroonians are not counter-fitters nor did they ever intend to be so, besides which there was never any law enforcement officers involved at the time they guy lost his money and evidence did not begin to be collected until the victim reported the matter to the police, months after the original offence.  The whole thing was set up to relieve the guy of his money...................nothing more, nothing less.

 

[sjbrownderby]

14 minutes ago, saminoz said:

He was a willing accomplice in a failed attempt to forge a considerable amount of currency. Of course he is guilty!

Do you know that the Cameroonians actually intended to forge the money and had the means to do so? They showed him a conjuring trick. That was part of the con. Why don't you see that?

 

[sjbrownderby]

10 minutes ago, Docno said:

Hmmm... if had at least half his brain connected, he should have wondered, "if they can print their own money, why even bother selling the gold?"

Yes, exactly! Why would they even be involving another party in their own criminal enterprise if they had already proved it to be successful. At last someone with some sense.

[saminoz]

2 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

Yes, exactly! Why would they even be involving another party in their own criminal enterprise if they had already proved it to be successful. At last someone with some sense.

"At last someone with some sense."

Certainly not you.  What a lot of nonsense.

I assume you are just being contrary because that's you nature.

[sjbrownderby]

Just now, saminoz said:

"At last someone with some sense."

Certainly not you.  What a lot of nonsense.

I assume you are just being contrary because that's you nature.

I was involved in law enforcement for a number of years so I am talking from a level of personal experience of pursuing criminal cases. 

[NextStationBangkok]

5 hours ago, Benmart said:

So glad I have not been ordained to deside who deserves what. I leave that to others with unblemished lives.

 

Greediness leads to foolishness. Why not ?

[tubby johnson]

Who gave visas to these thugs?

[gerritkaew]

It look like there are no honest Black people staying in thailand, the all are in some kind off scam business.

I think when check 10, would 9 illegal there and ripping off someone.

[Elkski]

Gold Fever.  

 

How does the guy prove they took his 4 million?

 

Guy thought he was buying some cheap gold. Hot gold?  Then he is tempted into getting 3 times more gold. 

He never saw any gold but was distracted by the method.   

But he didn't watch carefully during the first test.  

 

Can you imagine his feelings the next afternoon when they didn't return with more ink?  There was a second of time when that con thought entered his happy greedy mind.  I bet he waited not wanting to mess up the process.  His mind wavered with hope and dread.  Then he took out his money.  Probably a bit of hope that the first bundle he grabbed was wrong!  Then two soggy blank paper bundles before him and whop!  He knew his stupidity.  Pretty good con.  He held off going to cops fir 3 months since he was trying to counterfit money in his home.   

He is a crook.   He was going to do something illegal with that money.  It was probably I'll gotten gain to start.    But the Cameroon men were greedy sticking around.   

At least he didn't jump off his balcony.   But what evidence do the cops have that a crime took place?