Considering "Big Joke's" Actions, will agencies continue the way?

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, smotherb said:

Gee, yes, I guess I should be impressed with a course which can be taken in four weeks and costs as little as $199.

Well, mine didn't take 4 weeks and even 18 years ago cost a lot more than that. A few people failed the entry test, and a couple dropped out because it was too difficult for them.  Anyone who thinks it is a walk in the park (in the UK anyway) is in for a rude awakening.  It now costs around 1500 pounds and is recognized as a bona fide higher education qualification- though not degree equivalent.

 

Besides, and bizarrely, the main requirement in Thailand is to be degree qualified.  

 

http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/teaching-english/teaching-qualifications/celta/

Edited May 5, 2018 by mommysboy

[poanoi]

mono lingual language teachers is a joke IMO,

i have study thai both under a teacher who held full command

of both thai & english, and i also suffered in the hands of a teacher that

couldnt explain certain elements of thai language in a language that i could understand.

 

lastly there was this TEFL teacher pointing behind his back

in an attempt to explain he was talking in past tense,

since he had zero idea how to explain that in a language his students could comprehend,

but alas, all the mono lingual teacher accomplished was to give the students the impression

he was pretending to be a flight attendant

[pearciderman]

3 hours ago, poanoi said:

lastly there was this TEFL teacher pointing behind his back

in an attempt to explain he was talking in past tense,

 

3 hours ago, poanoi said:

he had zero idea how to explain that in a language his students could comprehend,

 

Actually he had 100% idea how to explain it in a language his students could understand - body language. You really should not underestimate how much can be explained non-verbally.

[poanoi]

14 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

 

Actually he had 100% idea how to explain it in a language his students could understand - body language. You really should not underestimate how much can be explained non-verbally.

welp, the students ended up thinking he was impersonating a flight attendant,

so just lets say its the least efficient way imaginable, 

i wouldnt pay a single baht for body sign level of education,

and guessing neither would the kids, they know when they are subject of a scam

[pearciderman]

39 minutes ago, poanoi said:

welp, the students ended up thinking he was impersonating a flight attendant,

so just lets say its the least efficient way imaginable, 

i wouldnt pay a single baht for body sign level of education,

and guessing neither would the kids, they know when they are subject of a scam

 

Well, let's just hope you are not ever in charge of a classroom. Read the links below and maybe comment again, but just in case you can't be bothered, 7% is how much the spoken word impacts the student, the other 93% is non-verbal communication.

 

http://www.progressiveteacher.in/effective-body-language-in-the-classroom/

 

https://www.fluentu.com/blog/educator/language-teaching-techniques/

 

[poanoi]

13 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

Well, let's just hope you are not ever in charge of a classroom. Read the links below and maybe comment again, but just in case you can't be bothered, 7% is how much the spoken word impacts the student, the other 93% is non-verbal communication.

 

http://www.progressiveteacher.in/effective-body-language-in-the-classroom/

 

https://www.fluentu.com/blog/educator/language-teaching-techniques/

 

i'll admit i studied the competent teachers ass every bit as much

as the thai language, and without the slightest of doubt it contributed in

keeping me interested, but at least part of what kept my interest was the fact

that she was competent, there was no question that flew above her head,

and she knew all the grammar there is to explain.

 

this is in stark contrast to a mono lingual teacher that wouldnt pick up on the

question in the first instance, never mind explaining it

[youreavinalaff]

5 hours ago, poanoi said:

mono lingual language teachers is a joke IMO,

i have study thai both under a teacher who held full command

of both thai & english, and i also suffered in the hands of a teacher that

couldnt explain certain elements of thai language in a language that i could understand.

 

lastly there was this TEFL teacher pointing behind his back

in an attempt to explain he was talking in past tense,

since he had zero idea how to explain that in a language his students could comprehend,

but alas, all the mono lingual teacher accomplished was to give the students the impression

he was pretending to be a flight attendant

You studied Thai with a teacher in Thailand? Really?

 

Immersion is the best method of learning a foreign language. Put yourself in a position where only the language that you want to learn is being spoken. 

 

Learn Thai out there on the streets. Far more fun and much more rewarding.

Edited May 6, 2018 by youreavinalaff

[smotherb]

13 hours ago, pearciderman said:

So you are not married to a Thai, and all of your son's friends and your wife's friends are NES.

I am not married to a Thai and most of our friends are not NES. However, what possible difference would that make in what we are discussing? Please follow the thread backward to see. I am simply relating what a Thai neighbor of mine has said he is doing in his school; namely using Filipino teachers because they work for less, they complain less, they are more likely to meet Thai teaching qualifications, and he believes Thai students will have more confidence to learn English from someone who looks more like them. I commend his efforts to try to improve upon an obviously broken system.

[smotherb]

12 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Well, mine didn't take 4 weeks and even 18 years ago cost a lot more than that. A few people failed the entry test, and a couple dropped out because it was too difficult for them.  Anyone who thinks it is a walk in the park (in the UK anyway) is in for a rude awakening.  It now costs around 1500 pounds and is recognized as a bona fide higher education qualification- though not degree equivalent.

 

Besides, and bizarrely, the main requirement in Thailand is to be degree qualified.  

 

http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/teaching-english/teaching-qualifications/celta/

Just google TEFL and see; one offers a globally accepted TEFL certificate in three weeks; and yes, one for $199 and many for less than $500. TEFL certificate schools have boomed in the last 18 years and many of them are right here in Thailand.  I know several TEFL teachers, including my wife, who got their certificates in Phuket. 

 

However, you are the one who has been touting TEFL teachers, not me. I think the four-year degree qualification makes more since than a TEFL only; both would be better. You have to understand there is a problem with the current English teaching situation here in Thailand; few students actually learn. Yes, I know; all factions blame others for the failure.

 

The Thai school official to whom I refer is trying to make a difference.  Two of his four points seem indisputable; 1) Filipinos work for less than NES and 2) they complain less than NES. His other two hypotheses are debatable and will need to be tested; 3) Filipinos are more likely to legitimately possess the Thai English teaching qualifications and 4) Thai students would be more comfortable learning English from someone who looks more like them.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, smotherb said:

Just google TEFL and see; one offers a globally accepted TEFL certificate in three weeks; and yes, one for $199 and many for less than $500. TEFL certificate schools have boomed in the last 18 years and many of them are right here in Thailand.  I know several TEFL teachers, including my wife, who got their certificates in Phuket. 

 

However, you are the one who has been touting TEFL teachers, not me. I think the four-year degree qualification makes more since than a TEFL only; both would be better. You have to understand there is a problem with the current English teaching situation here in Thailand; few students actually learn. Yes, I know; all factions blame others for the failure.

 

The Thai school official to whom I refer is trying to make a difference.  Two of his four points seem indisputable; 1) Filipinos work for less than NES and 2) they complain less than NES. His other two hypotheses are debatable and will need to be tested; 3) Filipinos are more likely to legitimately possess the Thai English teaching qualifications and 4) Thai students would be more comfortable learning English from someone who looks more like them.

 

It's the same with degree courses!  You can buy them cheaply too.

 

It's the Trinity TEFL and CELTA.  They are defining, and without them one can not really be considered a TEFL teacher.  The others are likely rip off courses.

 

Yes, Filipinos are hard working, work for less, complain less, stay longer, and, on paper, can be better qualified.  The qualifications they have would probably not be recognized as such in UK, USA, etc.  This is somewhat offset by them having to do an English competency test, but I doubt any I've met would get the IELTS 7.5 required to enrol on the CELTA course in the UK.  They are not competent enough to be considered English teachers in my opinion, as generally they do not speak the language well, and most of their teaching will be conversational English; it's as simple as that.  There are exceptions I'm sure.

 

Yes, the Thai system is in a mess.  And, it hasn't got any better since TEFL teachers were effectively barred from teaching in Thailand.  Part of the problem is undoubtedly that native teachers simply do not have QTS, and this goes for the Filipinos too.  So I offer the opinion that QTS should be considered the only option to teach in Thai schools.

 

That would leave private language schools to flourish and undoubtedly they would employ TEFL teachers (with or without a degree). Essentially then, it would be as it is in any nation with a well developed education system. Can I just make the point that TEFL teachers are just that- nothing more or less.  They come in their element when teaching adults, who are well motivated, and want to learn some special aspect, eg, speaking as a native speaker, or taking the IELTS.  Teaching kids in the state school setting is a whole different ball game.

 

The problem with the Thai education system is complex and goes beyond one subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by mommysboy

[somtamjames]

22 hours ago, smotherb said:

Why, it's the 21st century, is it not?

I've Googled it and you seem to  be right. 

[somtamjames]

Real teachers in the Philippines with a teacher's license from their country earn around 19,000 Pesos, which is around $350. 

 

   I know a few who Filipinos who have salaries from 20- to 27,000 Thai baht. Some Thais with a PhD from the Philippines can hardly speak English, degrees can be bought and nobody in the Western world would hire somebody with a degree that was completely done in Tagalog.

 

    IMO, when people come to Thailand to send money back home, it says a lot. 

 

   The TCT doesn't have the manpower to check on Filipino degrees and many score around 400 to 600 in TOEIC tests.

 

    But Filipinos seem to stick together while NES teachers seem to dislike all NNES, no matter how good their English is.

 

   BTW, there's a lot more to teaching than just speaking a language. 

 

   

 

    

[youreavinalaff]

35 minutes ago, somtamjames said:

Real teachers in the Philippines with a teacher's license from their country earn around 19,000 Pesos, which is around $350. 

 

   I know a few who Filipinos who have salaries from 20- to 27,000 Thai baht. Some Thais with a PhD from the Philippines can hardly speak English, degrees can be bought and nobody in the Western world would hire somebody with a degree that was completely done in Tagalog.

 

    IMO, when people come to Thailand to send money back home, it says a lot. 

 

   The TCT doesn't have the manpower to check on Filipino degrees and many score around 400 to 600 in TOEIC tests.

 

    But Filipinos seem to stick together while NES teachers seem to dislike all NNES, no matter how good their English is.

 

   BTW, there's a lot more to teaching than just speaking a language. 

 

   

 

    

I have been told by many Filipinos that all bachelor degree courses in the Philippines are taught in English.

[somtamjames]

16 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I have been told by many Filipinos that all bachelor degree courses in the Philippines are taught in English.

It's just not true.

 

       https://study.com/directory/category/Communications_and_Journalism/Foreign_Language_and_Literature/Filipino_and_Tagalog_Language.html

[mommysboy]

14 hours ago, poanoi said:

mono lingual language teachers is a joke IMO,

i have study thai both under a teacher who held full command

of both thai & english, and i also suffered in the hands of a teacher that

couldnt explain certain elements of thai language in a language that i could understand.

 

lastly there was this TEFL teacher pointing behind his back

in an attempt to explain he was talking in past tense,

since he had zero idea how to explain that in a language his students could comprehend,

but alas, all the mono lingual teacher accomplished was to give the students the impression

he was pretending to be a flight attendant

I have some sympathy with what you say.  I frequently resorted to Thai to explain, particularly with vocab.

 

It is regarded as a gross error in teacher training. 

 

In the example you quoted, a simple diagram would have done.

[smotherb]

4 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

It's the same with degree courses!  You can buy them cheaply too.

 

It's the Trinity TEFL and CELTA.  They are defining, and without them one can not really be considered a TEFL teacher.  The others are likely rip off courses.

 

Yes, Filipinos are hard working, work for less, complain less, stay longer, and, on paper, can be better qualified.  The qualifications they have would probably not be recognized as such in UK, USA, etc.  This is somewhat offset by them having to do an English competency test, but I doubt any I've met would get the IELTS 7.5 required to enrol on the CELTA course in the UK.  They are not competent enough to be considered English teachers in my opinion, as generally they do not speak the language well, and most of their teaching will be conversational English; it's as simple as that.  There are exceptions I'm sure.

 

Yes, the Thai system is in a mess.  And, it hasn't got any better since TEFL teachers were effectively barred from teaching in Thailand.  Part of the problem is undoubtedly that native teachers simply do not have QTS, and this goes for the Filipinos too.  So I offer the opinion that QTS should be considered the only option to teach in Thai schools.

 

That would leave private language schools to flourish and undoubtedly they would employ TEFL teachers (with or without a degree). Essentially then, it would be as it is in any nation with a well developed education system. Can I just make the point that TEFL teachers are just that- nothing more or less.  They come in their element when teaching adults, who are well motivated, and want to learn some special aspect, eg, speaking as a native speaker, or taking the IELTS.  Teaching kids in the state school setting is a whole different ball game.

 

The problem with the Thai education system is complex and goes beyond one subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fake degrees, fake certifications; my my, what a deceitful world in which we live. Certainly, you can simply buy either; including transcripts, course evaluations, and letters of recommendation--research Dr. John Bear's non-traditional degrees. That is one reason why a qualification standard, a better vetting process is needed. Nevertheless, many other elements of the Thai educational system need modification.

 

I am sorry, I didn't realize we were discussing the US or the UK, or Filipinos and IELTS or CELTA. We could start another sub-forum if you like.

 

A TEFL teacher is a minimum requirement cheap substitute for a degreed language teacher. Not trying to discredit anyone, just stating a fact. They may indeed come into their own teaching adults, but here, as you say, TEFL teachers are also used to teach children. However, I believe teaching kids may be easier than teaching adults; kids are knowledge sponges.

 

Certainly, some TEFL teachers are good teachers and some good teachers are not even TEFL certified.  One I know is great with kids. He is a retired woodworker from Liverpool who built a wooden robot on a cart to help the kids learn English. It's painted bright colors and swivels on its cart. Its eyes, arms and legs spin around and it disperses small blocks of wood with words, pictures, numbers, or colors on them from a drawer in its stomach.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, smotherb said:

Fake degrees, fake certifications; my my, what a deceitful world in which we live. Certainly, you can simply buy either; including transcripts, course evaluations, and letters of recommendation--research Dr. John Bear's non-traditional degrees. That is one reason why a qualification standard, a better vetting process is needed. Nevertheless, many other elements of the Thai educational system need modification.

 

I am sorry, I didn't realize we were discussing the US or the UK, or Filipinos and IELTS or CELTA. We could start another sub-forum if you like.

 

A TEFL teacher is a minimum requirement cheap substitute for a degreed language teacher. Not trying to discredit anyone, just stating a fact. They may indeed come into their own teaching adults, but here, as you say, TEFL teachers are also used to teach children. However, I believe teaching kids may be easier than teaching adults; kids are knowledge sponges.

 

Certainly, some TEFL teachers are good teachers and some good teachers are not even TEFL certified.  One I know is great with kids. He is a retired woodworker from Liverpool who built a wooden robot on a cart to help the kids learn English. It's painted bright colors and swivels on its cart. Its eyes, arms and legs spin around and it disperses small blocks of wood with words, pictures, numbers, or colors on them from a drawer in its stomach.

When I point out certain basic facts surrounding TEFL teaching you respond with contempt.

 

A TEFL teacher is a minimum requirement cheap substitute for a degreed language teacher. 

 

Quite simply, it is what is, and does what it says on the can.  

 

It's horses for courses.  There are certain situations when a TEFL backed with vocational experience trumps even a degree in education.

 

I think most people would say it is easier to teach languages to adults, because a large classroom full of children (most not able or willing to learn English) is impossible to control.

 

[smotherb]

17 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

When I point out certain basic facts surrounding TEFL teaching you respond with contempt.

 

A TEFL teacher is a minimum requirement cheap substitute for a degreed language teacher. 

 

Quite simply, it is what is, and does what it says on the can.  

 

It's horses for courses.  There are certain situations when a TEFL backed with vocational experience trumps even a degree in education.

 

I think most people would say it is easier to teach languages to adults, because a large classroom full of children (most not able or willing to learn English) is impossible to control.

 

If you really cared, you could see your overt praise of TEFL prior to each contempt I post.  However, it was your insistence that I knew nothing about teaching because I had never been a TEFL teacher that made me chuckle and consider the source.

 

So, your reason that TEFL teachers haven't done well teaching young children is because it is more difficult? How are you doing with the older kids?

[mommysboy]

29 minutes ago, smotherb said:

If you really cared, you could see your overt praise of TEFL prior to each contempt I post.  However, it was your insistence that I knew nothing about teaching because I had never been a TEFL teacher that made me chuckle and consider the source.

 

So, your reason that TEFL teachers haven't done well teaching young children is because it is more difficult? How are you doing with the older kids?

 

I meant that you have no knowledge or experience as a TEFL teacher teaching kids in Thailand in ordinary state schools.  This is true, isn't it?

 

Yes, I believe the TEFL is a really useful vocational qualification for teaching English as a foreign language.  But it is what it is! 

 

I don't teach kids in state schools anymore:  I am not suitably qualified, and believe that the only people who should teach there are those with QTS which really implies a B.Ed.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by mommysboy

[smotherb]

10 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

I meant that you have no knowledge or experience as a TEFL teacher teaching kids in Thailand in ordinary state schools.  This is true, isn't it?

 

Yes, I believe the TEFL is a really useful vocational qualification for teaching English as a foreign language.  But it is what it is! 

 

I don't teach kids in state schools anymore:  I am not suitably qualified, and believe that the only people who should teach there are those with QTS which really implies a B.Ed.

 

 

 

 

I have never washed a green motorcycle either. However, I see you highly value your skills; if you don't who will?

[mommysboy]

On 06/05/2018 at 10:18 PM, smotherb said:

I have never washed a green motorcycle either. However, I see you highly value your skills; if you don't who will?

 I have been offered a couple of openings by past clients. As far as working in Thailand is concerned, they can go whistle.  I didn't say that of course.