Tourist police crackdown on "international schools" employing illegal foreign teachers

[ozmeldo]

10 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

That's almost exactly how I see it.  I don't see any agencies even daring to send teachers who can not qualify for a work permit, and I'm sure that will create a substantial shortfall in teacher numbers. The staff room may see increasing numbers of Filipinos, but even then these people will not be so easy to find.

I see many agencies advertising for non degreed teachers and PT or interim workers. Yes, I know...My suspicion is that they work them 90 days and done or rewrite a contract. The 90 days in the probation period so no wp or even visa is required under liberal terms. There are a few notorious agencies and especially the super sketchy Thai agencies fronted by Filipino staff placing non degreed teachers. Do a search..yes, May 2018.

 

You can tell the quality of a school's English program, it's commitment by the percentage of Filipinos on staff. It's just a huge mafia family pushing fake goods. In this case, education.

 

Far better to have: Scandanavian, Dutch, German. Part of MOE standards is imparting culture. Thais are not the least bit interested in Filipino 'culture' nor will learning anything about it and their education. EU should have reasonable education grounded in Western traditions including arts and literature. Kids will go to Europe - students not the least bit interested in Philippines.

 

[pearciderman]

4 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

The 90 days in the probation period so no wp or even visa is required under liberal terms.

 

When you spout such utter nonsense, how is anybody supposed to take anything else you say with anything other than a pinch of salt.

[ozmeldo]

1 minute ago, pearciderman said:

 

When you spout such utter nonsense, how is anybody supposed to take anything else you say with anything other than a pinch of salt.

What is the nonsense oh ye demigod of all things Thai edumacashunal?

 

No idea why you constantly troll me but at this point I don't care. I'd love to know where you work and what you make, the universities you had graduated from, your time in Thailand, time teaching. You have such a high opinion of yourself.

[pearciderman]

4 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

What is the nonsense oh ye demigod of all things Thai edumacashunal?

 

No idea why you constantly troll me but at this point I don't care. I'd love to know where you work and what you make, the universities you had graduated from, your time in Thailand, time teaching. You have such a high opinion of yourself.

 

If by "trolling" you mean pointing out your huge mistake regarding visas and work permits, guilty as charged. I would just prefer people had the facts, not bar stool myth.

 

As to your other points, let me just answer one, I have been teaching since 1992. 

[ozmeldo]

11 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

If by "trolling" you mean pointing out your huge mistake regarding visas and work permits, guilty as charged. I would just prefer people had the facts, not bar stool myth.

 

As to your other points, let me just answer one, I have been teaching since 1992. 

Guess you missed the word liberal in my post. The invective is startling.

 

I've never read one, not one incident of a teacher or school being taken to task for having illegal teachers on board during the first 90 days of the year. I would further extrapolate this that an agency or school could easily explain away a teachers illegal status by stating they are under probation. I have also never hear of an incident in which a teacher in such circumstances at a legit school has been fined and deported. So, perhaps not de jure, but de facto. All that time in Thailand, in schools but seemingly not understanding how it all works.

 

I doubt seriously your first visit to Thailand was in 1992 although somewhat ironically, my first visit was. Email me the list of waivers and licences from Khrusapa and I will acknowledge. In the next 30 mins and I'll UFTS. Ive no idea how anyone sane could even tolerate ten years in Thai public education and it's pretty clear you're no I international teacher, but whatever.

[pearciderman]

2 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

I doubt seriously your first visit to Thailand was in 1992 although somewhat ironically, my first visit was. Email me the list of waivers and licences from Khrusapa and I will acknowledge. In the next 30 mins and I'll UFTS. Ive no idea how anyone sane could even tolerate ten years in Thai public education and it's pretty clear you're no I international teacher, but whatever.

 

I do not recall saying that my first visit to Thailand was in 1992, I said that I had been teaching since 1992.

 

I don't need waivers and where I work does not come under the TCT, so sorry, no information regarding that.

[pearciderman]

5 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

Guess you missed the word liberal in my post.

 

Nope, I spotted it. But having the appropriate legislation at hand on my computer, I can't see anywhere that is says it is OK to work probation without the correct visa or work permit.

 

Maybe you have a link to your "liberal" interpretation of the law.

[ozmeldo]

20 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

Nope, I spotted it. But having the appropriate legislation at hand on my computer, I can't see anywhere that is says it is OK to work probation without the correct visa or work permit.

 

Maybe you have a link to your "liberal" interpretation of the law.

 

Wow, I guess you've missed comprehending my statements twice now despite your stellar education - what I had stated (not SAID) was in fact my interpretation based on my 27 years in/out of Thailand and years in forums (even the beginning of TV and LPTT and <URL Automatically Removed> totally unaware of ONE teacher being fined and deported during their first 90 days (especially school) REGARDLESS of laws. You can't see the forest for the trees.

 

I therefore have inferred that over the years, the sensible police, txt and MoL do not chase teachers and issues until second quarter. This is strictly my opinion which you are welcome to disagree. Between week 1-9 perhaps 50% of all teachers are working and 45% will become legal. So why make problems?

 

Further, even if a teacher applied day 1 they wouldn't have their documents for a minimum of one month, and that's I'm Bangkok.

 

Finally, given the above and Thai nature, cops are not stormtroopers, they know their place, they know where the tea money comes from. As much as laws and Thais can be illogical and unreasonable, they can also be the opposite.

 

Why would the cops want to hassle 40% of the teachers who I'm the following fee months be fully legal? They do not.

 

 

I'm leaving this 'conversation ' to enjoy the rest of my morning.

 

NO! THE INTERNET IS WRONG! 555

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by ozmeldo

[overherebc]

57 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

What is the nonsense oh ye demigod of all things Thai edumacashunal?

 

No idea why you constantly troll me but at this point I don't care. I'd love to know where you work and what you make, the universities you had graduated from, your time in Thailand, time teaching. You have such a high opinion of yourself.

Probation period 3 months 4 months has no bearing on it. The WP should be in place before a stroke of work is done. Anyone dumb enough to believe different deserves the sh-t that comes their way from Police/Immigration as should the school.

Start hitting teachers and schools with fines and keep doing it until they get themselves straight or the 'teacher' gets deported and/or the school gets shut down.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, ozmeldo said:

What is the nonsense oh ye demigod of all things Thai edumacashunal?

 

No idea why you constantly troll me but at this point I don't care. I'd love to know where you work and what you make, the universities you had graduated from, your time in Thailand, time teaching. You have such a high opinion of yourself.

Sorry I agree with the other poster a lot of your content is ill-informed.

[ozmeldo]

To the above posters, what should be and what is are two totally different things. Of course non of you have started a new public school and have had your waiver, visa, so in place on May 15. I've worked at half dozen good schools in bkk, it's just not how it's done despite it being however illegal. I have no idea how the same would not be stated for all of  you.

 

I never disagreed that all the paperwork should be I'm place day 1, it's just not the reality. Nor has it ever been.

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by ozmeldo

[mommysboy]

12 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Over the years I have talked to a few teachers, before the recent years crackdown and scrutiny on visas.  One girl from the USA was sitting next to me on the van as we were making a visa run to Poi Pet.  She was quite motivated and loved working with the Thai kids and teaching them English.   Sadly, it sounds like the school avenue has been a method exploited and abused by the bad guys as a way to get in to Thailand and stay in Thailand.  The net result is it will hurt the overall teaching effort as cheaper and reasonably well qualified people for the task will not be able to be obtained.

Yes, without a doubt I have had to say goodbye to some terrific teachers who were basically qualified, only to see them replaced by lesser teachers who may satisfy some academic criterion, but crucially not in TEFL teaching.  Thus, you can now be working with someone from a non native speaking country who has a BA ED (of sorts), but has a poor grasp of English to the point that you may struggle to understand what they say.

 

The 'bad guys' argument only goes so far: the crux of the problem is that the people who are best qualified to teach English as a foreign language, ie, native speaking TEFL teachers, have been forced out by one means or another.  

 

 

[ozmeldo]

6 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Probation period 3 months 4 months has no bearing on it. The WP should be in place before a stroke of work is done. Anyone dumb enough to believe different deserves the sh-t that comes their way from Police/Immigration as should the school.

Start hitting teachers and schools with fines and keep doing it until they get themselves straight or the 'teacher' gets deported and/or the school gets shut down.

IMO the paperwork should be done and a teacher should have all his documents by the second month. I'd always passed my 99 days in 30 days and had my documents by day 60. If I did not, I would write a formal letter stating that will no work past day 90 and this may be considered notice of intent to vacate without legal documents.

 

You state - start, 555 because admittedly it's not being done which entirely proves my point.

 

The problem with illegal teachers is not getting documents together immediately, the issue is that the teachers have no degrees and other substandard issues.

 

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

To the above posters, what should be and what is are two totally different things. Of course non of you have started a new public school and have had your waiver, visa, so in place on May 15. I've worked at half dozen good schools in bkk, it's just not how it's done despite it being however illegal. I have no idea how the same would not be stated for all of  you.

 

I never disagreed that all the paperwork should be I'm place day 1, it's just not the reality. Nor has it ever been.

 

Well, to get the visa that is the platform for teaching in Thailand you need to show documentation, and then again to apply for the work permit, and subsequent licensing or waiver.  There is a delay, and sometimes agencies sit on the paperwork in case a teacher leaves.

[mommysboy]

8 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

To the above posters, what should be and what is are two totally different things. Of course non of you have started a new public school and have had your waiver, visa, so in place on May 15. I've worked at half dozen good schools in bkk, it's just not how it's done despite it being however illegal. I have no idea how the same would not be stated for all of  you.

 

I never disagreed that all the paperwork should be I'm place day 1, it's just not the reality. Nor has it ever been.

 

Essentially correct, but missing the point that immigration now allows teachers to work while waiting for processing because a preliminary check occurs right at inception.  In any case, this area is not the one being exploited: that being simple illegal working by unqualified teachers on the wrong visa. 

 

 

[ozmeldo]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Well, to get the visa that is the platform for teaching in Thailand you need to show documentation, and then again to apply for the work permit, and subsequent licensing or waiver.  There is a delay, and sometimes agencies sit on the paperwork in case a teacher leaves.

EXACTLY

 

Does the teacher stay? Do we want him? One admin doing paperwork for 15 teachers, worse...one poor teacher doing The work. This all takes time.

 

The paperwork for BOTH waiver and WP are half a ream high, which unless the work permit is issued to the agency (somewhat illegal). Even agency doing this work requires some school involvement. Then there is the visa. The agencies need to corral everyone to go to get their visas converted, many make visa runs. The system understands all this and no one is getting hassled by cops the first month of school. No idea why everyone continues to belabor this point.

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by ozmeldo

[mommysboy]

12 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

EXACTLY

 

Does the teacher stay? Do we want him? One admin doing paperwork for 15 teachers, worse...one poor teacher doing The work. This all takes time.

 

The paperwork for BOTH waiver and WP are half a ream high, which unless the work permit is issued to the agency (somewhat illegal). Even agency doing this work requires some school involvement. Then there is the visa. The agencies need to corral everyone to go to get their visas converted, many make visa runs. The system understands all this and no one is getting hassled by cops the first month of school. No idea why everyone continues to belabor this point.

 

You have sullied the point.

[tukkytuktuk]

On 28/04/2018 at 8:55 AM, Ajarnbrian said:

Good to see this crackdown. Dodgy schools employing people on tourist visas who are not real, qualified teachers is ripping off students and their parents. It is also damaging the reputation of the good, genuine schools and their teachers in Thailand. 

Qualified, Bachelor of Science in Quantum Physics teaching kindergarten students aged 3-4 years old versus energetic backpacker with only babysitting skills. Hmm?

 

One gets a work permit, higher salary, puts the kids to sleep. Has lots of free time. Joins the land of nerds, has a gorgeous wife whose after his wallet.

 

The backpacker pretends to be a student to get non-immigration ED visa. Works weekends doing this course in order to stay. The kids love him/her and the energy the young person uses. The parents are happy, the backpacker is young so mixes mainly with other backpackers. When holidays come they all head off to visit the tourist sites.

 

Meanwhile qualified Quantum Physic's guy is down Big C with his Thai wife argueing that there's not enough farang food for sale, how the weather is so hot, whilst correcting her English and commentating that she is stupid because she left school when she was 14.

Edited April 29, 2018 by tukkytuktuk

[Rimkok]

2 hours ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Qualified, Bachelor of Science in Quantum Physics teaching kindergarten students aged 3-4 years old versus energetic backpacker with only babysitting skills. Hmm?

 

One gets a work permit, higher salary, puts the kids to sleep. Has lots of free time. Joins the land of nerds, has a gorgeous wife whose after his wallet.

 

The backpacker pretends to be a student to get non-immigration ED visa. Works weekends doing this course in order to stay. The kids love him/her and the energy the young person uses. The parents are happy, the backpacker is young so mixes mainly with other backpackers. When holidays come they all head off to visit the tourist sites.

 

Meanwhile qualified Quantum Physic's guy is down Big C with his Thai wife argueing that there's not enough farang food for sale, how the weather is so hot, whilst correcting her English and commentating that she is stupid because she left school when she was 14.

Are you the Quantum Physics teacher by any chance?

[jenny2017]

8 minutes ago, Rimkok said:

Are you the Quantum Physics teacher by any chance?

More  a Tuk Tuk repairs man. ( See username..)

[Myran]

14 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Immigration are Police here, not officials.

Completely irrelevant as Joke isn't an immigration officer.

 

Furthermore, police officers can very much be regarded as officials. But thank you for that pointless nitpicking.

[tukkytuktuk]

This isn’t new to any of us who live, or spend a great deal of time, in Thailand. You’re blacklisted, given extra screening, and generally treated like a second-rate human if your black. You’re not trusted, and you’re not worth the time to figure out if you can be trusted.

 

Big Joke's gotta change his attitude, the world is watching, time he took a holiday to Africa and get over his problems.

[ozmeldo]

5 hours ago, tukkytuktuk said:

This isn’t new to any of us who live, or spend a great deal of time, in Thailand. You’re blacklisted, given extra screening, and generally treated like a second-rate human if your black. You’re not trusted, and you’re not worth the time to figure out if you can be trusted.

 

Big Joke's gotta change his attitude, the world is watching, time he took a holiday to Africa and get over his problems.

It would appear that targeting Africans has been and continues to be a worthwhile endeavor. Overstayers, no means of support, no finances, scams, drugs, human trafficking. List is endless really.

 

I guess you've no experience with the Africans /here.

 

No idea why anyone would want to holiday in Africa.

[mvdf]

On 4/27/2018 at 3:32 PM, TunnelRat69 said:

What do you mean by this comment?  appears to be a deliberate attempt to draw remarks from Americans and Canadians,  our countries deport illegals everyday by the dozens, we don't deport legals at any time.     Explain yourself. 

 

Are you American? Because if you are, it's disturbing to see you nonchalantly use the possessive pronoun our when referring to the US and Canada. If you are American, may I remind you that the correct and authoritative choice of word is my.  

 

This is why foreigners are viewed and treated with suspicion and disdain in this part of the world. They shamelessly seem to think other countries are an extension of the jurisdiction they are a citizen of. 

[MyFriend You]

19 hours ago, mvdf said:

 

Are you American? Because if you are, it's disturbing to see you nonchalantly use the possessive pronoun our when referring to the US and Canada. If you are American, may I remind you that the correct and authoritative choice of word is my.  

 

This is why foreigners are viewed and treated with suspicion and disdain in this part of the world. They shamelessly seem to think other countries are an extension of the jurisdiction they are a citizen of. 

I consider USA and Canada North American, anything below the southern border Latin American........below Panama, South Amerian........you are correct on one point  -  I am shameless.....Thank You

[gennosuke34]

Just to understand , how much is the salary for a teacher farang in the internacional school ?

Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk

[Slip]

47 minutes ago, gennosuke34 said:

Just to understand , how much is the salary for a teacher farang in the internacional school ?

Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk
 

How long is a piece of string, and what constitutes an 'international' school? For A 'proper' international school in Bangkok you should be looking at a minimum of about 70k + benefits, but I suspect that the schools being referred to in the OP are not really international schools as others have mentioned in previous posts.

[gennosuke34]

2 hours ago, Slip said:

How long is a piece of string, and what constitutes an 'international' school? For A 'proper' international school in Bangkok you should be looking at a minimum of about 70k + benefits, but I suspect that the schools being referred to in the OP are not really international schools as others have mentioned in previous posts.

thanks , cause when i was living in bangkok in 2011 they offer somehting like 35 k so wasn't full inter maybe , thanks