Questions About Qualifications

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, one question is really how determined you are to work ONLY part-time, because as far as your qualifications are concerned you're probably doing better than about 70% of the people who are actually teaching English in Thailand. Your skills will certainly be in demand.

Assuming that visas and so forth are not a problem because of your husband's job, you can get full or part time work just about anywhere with any type of school, given time and determination. It would help to know more about your goals. Do you want to teach adults or children? Daytime or evenings? Weekdays or weekends? Full or part-time or both?

"Steven"

[ray23]

I have an Associates degree and many upper division courses completed, but do not have a B.A.

I have taught in the past in my career in Law Enforcement. I have thought about offering courses to the local cops.

I'm also retired and have an annual visa now. I have taught as a volunteer at a local University and truly enjoyed it. The TEFL is a committment of several months that I can do. I think I would feel much more comfortable with teaching if I had the approproate guidelines. I would really like to see the students get the benefit for thier time in taking the classes.

I guess a little extra money wouldn't hurt anyhting but I really don't need it

What I'm worried about is messing up my annual.

This is kind of a grey area to me, volunteering.

Anyway if a AA qaulifies me to teach then I would pursue the TEFL.

Any Thoughts?

--------------------

ray fisher

[Ijustwannateach]

Not sure what kind of annual visa you have... on many of them you can indeed get legal WPs...

That said, wish I had 100 baht for every teacher doing work on the side that wasn't covered by a separate work permit, or even for every teacher working full time without a work permit for his main job!

The Thai law is a little fuzzy- work is work even if it doesn't count for benefits, but then there are volunteer organizations here... so what the heck? I dunno....

"Steven"

[ray23]

Not sure what kind of annual visa you have... on many of them you can indeed get legal WPs...

That said, wish I had 100 baht for every teacher doing work on the side that wasn't covered by a separate work permit, or even for every teacher working full time without a work permit for his main job!

The Thai law is a little fuzzy- work is work even if it doesn't count for benefits, but then there are volunteer organizations here... so what the heck?  I dunno....

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Steven

[Ijustwannateach]

No prob! and here's a post [started in another thread elsewhere ] from member ZOVOX:

I have two Bachelor degrees in Mathematics and Mechanical engineering, but i have no teaching certificate or experience - would i still be able to teach in Thailand ?

I assume that i would have to be able to speak thai to teach mathematics or science, but would i be able to teach english, being a native english speaker and having degrees ?

The answer to your first question is yes, definitely. The answer to your second is also yes, and that your assumption about teaching math and science in Thai is wrong- if you were doing that, you'd be competing with Thai teachers- typically a no-no in the Kingdom.

You can do much better teaching math or science here as a subject in English in the various EP programs. Of course, you can teach English everywhere. However, the entry level and upward mobility are much better with math and science- market forces at work.

The lack of any teaching experience is a minus, however- would suggest you might want to do English teaching for awhile just to get used to teaching itself and decide if it's for you or not. The pay will be lower, but then you're paying your dues. If you're cut out for it, you can apply later for the math/science jobs in a much better position to sell yourself as a *teacher*.

This kind of work will also give you connections that will be useful to you in your job hunt later (assuming you don't completely blow it!). If you're not confident in your skills as a starting English teacher, I'd highly recommend some sort of TEFL training first.

"Steven"

[ZOVOX]

No prob!  and here's a post [started in another thread elsewhere  ] from member ZOVOX:

I have two Bachelor degrees in Mathematics and Mechanical engineering, but i have no teaching certificate or experience - would i still be able to teach in Thailand ?

I assume that i would have to be able to speak thai to teach mathematics or science, but would i be able to teach english, being a native english speaker and having degrees ?

The answer to your first question is yes, definitely. The answer to your second is also yes, and that your assumption about teaching math and science in Thai is wrong- if you were doing that, you'd be competing with Thai teachers- typically a no-no in the Kingdom.

You can do much better teaching math or science here as a subject in English in the various EP programs. Of course, you can teach English everywhere. However, the entry level and upward mobility are much better with math and science- market forces at work.

The lack of any teaching experience is a minus, however- would suggest you might want to do English teaching for awhile just to get used to teaching itself and decide if it's for you or not. The pay will be lower, but then you're paying your dues. If you're cut out for it, you can apply later for the math/science jobs in a much better position to sell yourself as a *teacher*.

This kind of work will also give you connections that will be useful to you in your job hunt later (assuming you don't completely blow it!). If you're not confident in your skills as a starting English teacher, I'd highly recommend some sort of TEFL training first.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks ! What is 'EP programs' ? And how do i get started on one ?

[Ijustwannateach]

I think you might want to start reading at the top of this thread and keep going, and then read most of the rest of the threads in this forum. Unless you want me to unscrew the top of my head and pull out my brain and fax it to you through the web! The short answer to your question is that EP means "English program," and it is typically an all-English program run by a regular or private Thai school at the elementary or high school level. You can get started by finding one and applying at it.

The long answer is contained in all of the threads in this forum. I'd also suggest you read the other pinned thread about what newbies should do to start out.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

New Poster Endlessnights recently posted this:

ah okay I feel so lost and I'm going to try not to sound like a newbie and post stupid questions.. I have rest a LOT about this stuff, but I am still LOST. please don't be too hard on me

here's my situation: I'm currently in thailand and I want to Teach. I have a BA in Economics and took went to a computer school for certifications (I actually only have my MCP, but I took the MSCE course). I have no teaching experience. I have no TEFL certificate or anything like that.

Ideally, I would like to teach at an International School teaching subjects like Math or Science, or better yet, computers. Where do these schools advertise? I do not see many postings like these - mostly to teach English. That is another thing, I am willing to teach English as well as long as it's something like mon-fri 8-4.. I dont' care,, I just need a job.

also about the TEFL cert.. does it matter where you get it? most postings do not say xx amount of hours for TEFL course or anything like that. someone mentioned that it's good for it to be associated with an accredited university.. is something like http://www.teflonline.com or http://onlinetefl.com ok?? the problem with getting a tefl cert is that I have no money! courses like telfintl.com are over 1000 dollars.. I've already been living in bkk for a few months and that is a LOT of money. any other recommendations? if I end up spending money on a real course, I absolutely want to be placed.

I am also looking to make 30K/month.. is this realistic?

thank you

Well, as I mentioned in your thread, you should really read all of this thread, plus the "Suggestions For Newbies" about how to start getting the information you need as a teacher and where to look for jobs. Many of the questions you've asked are answered already here in this thread. However, I'll give you some specific answers:

As far as academic degrees are concerned, you're set. However, without a genuine teaching qualification, plus probably some experience teaching elsewhere, plus probably some contacts at the schools, you'll never teach in the Big International Schools here. Not to worry, though, because there are plenty of would-be international schools (with a little 'i') starting up which have much lower standards (and lower salaries offered). Even those schools would probably prefer to see you have some experience, however- teaching *anything* to a bunch of M.1 monkeys is no joke if you haven't tried it before.

So you'd be best off starting with teaching English. TEFL is not necessarily required, but smooths the way and gets you into better jobs. Without TEFL and without any experience, you're probably looking at the absolute newbie jobs- which, luckily for you, do come in the 25K-30K range, depending on how serious the school is and how serious you are. Don't bet your life you'll get a work permit, though. Save up, teach a year, get a TEFL sooner or later (and cut down on those mysterious "expenses" - if the Thais can live here on 5K a month, surely you can manage to save $1000 for a TEFL course at 30K) and you'll graduate to a higher standard of jobs- say, 35-40K. Then with a few years of teaching under your belt you can look for even better pastures- subject teaching math or science in one of the "lesser" internationals (with a small 'i'). Good luck!

"Steven"

[endlessnights]

thanks for your help Steven, I actually didn't know that "pinned" threads were still active.

sorry

thanks for the info.

are English teaching jobs available all year round?

I may just take a TEFL course.. I'm only here for maybe 2yrs, maybe even one.. then back to the states I go. I dont need a work permit, I'm a thai national (though I don't speak Thai.. but signing up for classes soon!). I may contact TAT to see if there are any job opportunites for me.

New Poster Endlessnights recently posted this:

ah okay I feel so lost and I'm going to try not to sound like a newbie and post stupid questions.. I have rest a LOT about this stuff, but I am still LOST. please don't be too hard on me

here's my situation: I'm currently in thailand and I want to Teach. I have a BA in Economics and took went to a computer school for certifications (I actually only have my MCP, but I took the MSCE course). I have no teaching experience. I have no TEFL certificate or anything like that.

Ideally, I would like to teach at an International School teaching subjects like Math or Science, or better yet, computers. Where do these schools advertise? I do not see many postings like these - mostly to teach English. That is another thing, I am willing to teach English as well as long as it's something like mon-fri 8-4.. I dont' care,, I just need a job.

also about the TEFL cert.. does it matter where you get it? most postings do not say xx amount of hours for TEFL course or anything like that. someone mentioned that it's good for it to be associated with an accredited university.. is something like http://www.teflonline.com or http://onlinetefl.com ok?? the problem with getting a tefl cert is that I have no money! courses like telfintl.com are over 1000 dollars.. I've already been living in bkk for a few months and that is a LOT of money. any other recommendations? if I end up spending money on a real course, I absolutely want to be placed.

I am also looking to make 30K/month.. is this realistic?

thank you

Well, as I mentioned in your thread, you should really read all of this thread, plus the "Suggestions For Newbies" about how to start getting the information you need as a teacher and where to look for jobs. Many of the questions you've asked are answered already here in this thread. However, I'll give you some specific answers:

As far as academic degrees are concerned, you're set. However, without a genuine teaching qualification, plus probably some experience teaching elsewhere, plus probably some contacts at the schools, you'll never teach in the Big International Schools here. Not to worry, though, because there are plenty of would-be international schools (with a little 'i') starting up which have much lower standards (and lower salaries offered). Even those schools would probably prefer to see you have some experience, however- teaching *anything* to a bunch of M.1 monkeys is no joke if you haven't tried it before.

So you'd be best off starting with teaching English. TEFL is not necessarily required, but smooths the way and gets you into better jobs. Without TEFL and without any experience, you're probably looking at the absolute newbie jobs- which, luckily for you, do come in the 25K-30K range, depending on how serious the school is and how serious you are. Don't bet your life you'll get a work permit, though. Save up, teach a year, get a TEFL sooner or later (and cut down on those mysterious "expenses" - if the Thais can live here on 5K a month, surely you can manage to save $1000 for a TEFL course at 30K) and you'll graduate to a higher standard of jobs- say, 35-40K. Then with a few years of teaching under your belt you can look for even better pastures- subject teaching math or science in one of the "lesser" internationals (with a small 'i'). Good luck!

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Ijustwannateach]

The best time to look for work is just before terms begin, which for most schools is April-ish and October-ish. Some of the true blue big-I Internationals follow foreign term schedules, but from your itinerary I don't think you need to be worried about them. If you could wait until this April you'd be a shoe-in for some type of decent job.

However, the not-so-decent jobs are typically available all the time (because people keep leaving them)- and occasionally a good job will open up as a result of an accident or emergency- but the good ones tend to get filled with friends-of-friends, etc., which is why it's best to stay for awhile and make contacts if you want a really *good* job.

If I were you, only planning to be here 1-2 years, why bother with the TEFL qualification? I mean, if you had the extra money, ok, but you're already worried about funds- most of the 25K-30K places aren't going to worry *that* much if you have TEFL or not- it's more for YOUR peace of mind and confidence at places like that.

Good luck, but if you really want a nice job you have to stay here awhile and work at it- just the way things go here.

[kenkannif]

As a Thai (unless you have dual nationality, which I'm guessing you do? And even then it will be hard if you 'look' Asian) don't expect to earn 20-30,000 with zero training and no experience. A farang probably could, but you (as an Asian teacher) will struggle to do so IMHO!

Edited December 14, 2004 by kenkannif

[endlessnights]

I have dual.. born in the states.. I can hardly speak thai. but anyway, I keep hearing things like that.. like it's harder to get a teaching job if you're thai/asian.. or that you will get paid lower.. but has anyone here actually experienced this?

I did a trial run teaching at an english language school just to see what it's like.. and they wanted me right away.. I taught a few classes and the kids absolutely LOVED me.. esp the girls. I know it's not the kids that do the hiring but the parents and employers should really consider this.

As a Thai (unless you have dual nationality, which I'm guessing you do? And even then it will be hard if you 'look' Asian) don't expect to earn 20-30,000 with zero training and no experience. A farang probably could, but you (as an Asian teacher) will struggle to do so IMHO!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[kenkannif]

I know Thais and Asians that are indeed paid lower 'cos they're Thai or Asian. On the other hand I know the odd dual nationality (and even some 100% Thais) that have got a rate similar to that of a farang! It definitely happens here. Quite often the parents are as much paying for a white face (sad but true) as they are for the teaching. In fact I'd probably say they'd (the schools that would consider taking on an untrained/inexperienced teacher) prefer a 4-6 week Western looking TEFLer to a 3-4 year Thai or Asian BEd!

Edited December 15, 2004 by kenkannif

[meds]

I have read a load of posted replies but can not really figure out where I fit in respect to qualifications. I passed English A and B with distinction at upper secondary and am now, several years later, doing the later half of my studies at the Teachers Academy in Malmoe (Sweden), striving to become an upper secondary English teacher.

I have been planning a sabbatical but after reading what´s posted here I´m not too sure my qualifications would be considered adequate.

Beside the studies of English at university level for three terms, I´ve studied some methodology, pedagogy, didactics and rhethoric (embedded in the English studies) and have also had 16 weeks of practise with both adult learners and children at ages between 13-16. But, the big "but" here is that I will not recieve any formal note on paper as to provide with job applications until fully finished. I could probably get some validation on where I am in my studies and what my qualifications would be at this point, but it wouldn´t be stated as a formal degree.

Oh yeh, to be clear, my question is:

What are my chances at the Thai market of teachers?

Edited January 10, 2005 by meds

[Ijustwannateach]

Where you stand:

1. You have no degree.

2. You have a certain number of hours in educational courses.

3. You have no apparent actual teaching experience.

For EP programs or international schools, I'd say you're doing kinda shaky- I'm not the Ministry, but I'm under the impression they like to see at least 2 out of 3 of the above, for most serious teaching (subject teaching in EP programs and so forth). Their official requirement for teachers is actually to have people with B.Ed "or equivalent," where the equivalent is fairly liberally interpreted.

For TEFL, you're looking promising but still a newbie, and if you were looking for a WP you'd probably need to cough up a TEFL along the way.

You're apparently already on the way to a real teaching degree- why spoil it now? Finish it out and qualify for the really, really posh jobs here and THEN come over!

"Steven"

[Rumpole]

Ajarn wrote:

I really don't agree that the salaries here are so low, especially when you compare the cost of living and quality of life here. There are plenty of worse places to teach, like China, Japan, Korea, in my experience.

Have you ever actually worked in China, Japan or Korea? I have taught in both China and Korea and found the quality of life, both in terms of remuneration, benefits and job satisfaction to be much better than Thailand. In my experience, Thai universities are abusive and exploitative, with lacklustre students who seek to be entertained rather educated. These institutions have been paying the same dreadful salaries for fifteen years, yet tuition fees sometimes exceed those charged by universities in some Western countries. I have lived and taught in ten countries on three continents, and Thailand provided the most malign treatment of any of them.

Anyone who believes that the proposed checking of qualifications will in any way improve the quality of teaching in Thailand, is living in cloud-cuckoo land. This is simply a further layer applied to the already Byzantine bureaucracy, imposed by the incumbent xenophobic administration with the intention of making it even more difficult for Westerners to live and work in the country. Those with genuine qualifications will submit to the checks, whilst the Kao Sarn road graduates will continue to work illegally - and the Thais will be happy to employ them.

If the government were truly committed to raising the abysmal standards of education in the country (something I doubt), they would do much better by trying to improve salaries and working conditions. Thailand is generally unappealing to the professional foreign educator, and the Machiavellian education system and ludicrous immigration regulations, quickly manage to alienate many of those who do venture there. These proposals will do nothing whatever to change that.

Edited January 11, 2005 by Rumpole

[Ijustwannateach]

Afraid I must agree with most of the above, though having worked in Japan I tend to see Ajarn's point about salary vs. quality of life (in that country, anyway).

I also agree that "requiring" more qualifications is the tail wagging the dog as long as they don't improve the salaries. You can say "All foreign teachers must have B.Ed.'s and a TEFL" all you want to, but wishing doesn't make it so- it only makes things embarrassing when you can't fill your teacher positions or have to do so with blatantly underqualified folks. Take care of the salaries, and the qualifications of the job-takers will take care of themselves...

"Steven"

[Ajarn]

I've lived and worked in all those countries, and I still have friends who teach in those countries. I still feel the same as I did before.

I also don't share most of your basic attitudes about teaching in Thailand.

To each their own

Edited January 11, 2005 by Ajarn

[doctormann]

I am currently living in Pattaya on a long stay 'retirement' basis (A-O visa) and cannot, under the terms of the visa, do any work. However, it has been suggested to me, by my local language school (AUA Pattaya) that I should consider doing some English teaching and that they could easily sort out a visa and work permit for me.

I'm not sure about this. My background is in physics / engineering and I have a PhD from a reputable UK university but no formal English teaching qualifications. Would I actually be able to teach English in Thailand at all? I don't think that the school is scamming me as they are a reputable organisation, affiliated to Burapa university.

I would quite like to do something a bit challenging to keep what's left of my brain from drying up under the influence of too much Chang but it would need to be worthwhile financially. What sort of remuneration could I expect to get? If I decided, after a while, that it wasn't working out could I easily revert to my retired status visa-wise?

It has also been suggested that I could get some work teaching science at a university - the same question about visa and work permit would apply. Any thought on this possibility?

Any help gratefully received.

DM

[Ajarn]

Hey, what's a smart guy like you doing in a place like this!

My sense is that most of what you've heard is basically true or possible. The issue, it seems, is your lingering doubts concerning your teaching ability (and taste for, maybe?)

I'm a guy who believes in getting to the bottom line asap. Hang out with a class of kindergarten kids learning English, or just observe from afar. Talk to some current university teachers for the ins/outs ups/downs of University Life (My personal preference, except for the salaries mostly offered)

Lots of options for sharp folks in this country...Or... "If I can do it, anybody can" (Take your pick for encouragement)

Get in at least up to the chest, I'd say

Edited January 18, 2005 by Ajarn

[Ijustwannateach]

Plenty of science-teaching work, too- though mainly K-12, not uni- though with a Ph.D, you'd have more options. Thing is, it would be a commitment- not something you could decide to walk away from on a whim (without creating serious bad feeling).

Age can be an issue- it's harder if you're older than the official retirement age here (65, I think).

Most good-paying full-time jobs will come with their own visas- but again, this will require commitment and a change of status- otherwise you'll have to jump through hoops again to get your old status back.

When I say good-paying- full time TEFL on the whole gets you 30-40K. For subject teaching in a high school, that's like 50K a month. For a public uni, that's 27K for English teaching- more, I would assume, if you're consulting or lecturing in your field.

You could do privates of various kinds- if they're for specialized types of classes, that can get you 1K an hour, but you won't have many of these in one day (not enough prime time or students in one location).

The cream of the crop jobs, including the best bennies and also big responsibility, will probably not be interested in someone of retirement age- but then again, you're retired! Maybe that's not so bad....

Good luck- let us know how it turns out!

"Steven"

[Bunnysgal]

Hello

My bf's planning to come live here.

He's from the Netherlands with B.A in multimedia design and TEFL cert.

You guys think ... Will he be able to get a teaching job here that pays enough to support me? Or salary doesn't matter as long as he got some cash in the bank?

Thanks in advance.

[Ijustwannateach]

In TEFL, he'll qualify for the low-end jobs- in other words, 25K-35K. Of course, that won't prevent a 40K employer who's desperate from hiring him.

Unless he's a real hotshot, chances are he won't get multimedia work here- too many Thais too good at it already.

"Steven"

[Bunnysgal]

Thank you

But if he had a B.Edu (major English teaching) from Holland, would that help him in getting a good teaching job here?

[kenkannif]

In a word.....yes!

[Ijustwannateach]

^Agree with Ken. For some strange reason, I believe all European countries are technically considered "Native Speaking" here for the purposes of TEFL? Ken, can you confirm or deny?

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

Yes kind of. I got my TL with a Swedish chap and they did want to know WHY his English was so good, but that's all.

Asian non-native speakers (certainly for Filipinos and Indians anyway) generally have to get a certain score on a TOEFL test (I think generally regardless of quals)......funny how the Thais don't, ain't it?

[Ijustwannateach]

Ajarnwannabe said:

Hi to you all!!

Well this is my first post and I need some good advice. Ive just finshed a TEFL certificate and I am planning to return to Thailand around June time. However I have never taught English before and I have no teaching experience what so ever. So would it be better for me to start teaching in the northern provinces first to gain some experience or teach in Bangkok straight away? Or should I teach for a year in China first to gain some experience and then come to Thailand after?

What do you think? Good advice needed. Thanks

Ok, here's some good advice:

1. If you're planning to stay in this business long, get basic manuals on grammar, punctuation, and spelling for yourself and start studying them. The smarter students will be able to find your spelling errors and maybe other mistakes as well, if you wind up in a good school someday. Do some more recreational reading.

2. With your current background (no experience and weak English) you won't do so well in downtown Bangkok, considering the current levels of competition. Head for the countryside and enjoy it! It can be lots of fun. Don't waste time spending a year in another country and being confused there, only to wind up confused here for your first year- setup and moving are expensive and stressful. Pick one country and try to commit to staying there a few years. In Asia, commitment gets rewarded- unless you're just doing this to travel!

"Steven"

Edited January 26, 2005 by Ijustwannateach

[ajarnwannabe]

Thanks Steven, I understand what you are saying!! Ive already ordered some books off the net for my spelling and grammer purposes and I hope they will help! I want to teach in Thailand because I want to make Thailand my home for around 5 years!! and I want to give Thailand something back! I agree with what you said about teaching upcountry as I was a little worried about jumping into the fire to quickly! However do you think after a year I would have enough experience to teach in Bangkok? and also I dont suspose you could give me some more advice? For example how do I find a job in north Thailand? Thanks a lot!!

[Bluffer]

I will disgree slighly with IJWT. The fire is the fire whether its in Bangkok or the wilderness. Out in the country they may treat you differently as they may not see as many white faces as in Bangkok where a white face can be seen everyday.

The main question is what lifestyle do you like, are you a city boy or country lad? If you are a city boy you will be miserable in Nakhon Nowhere as the only falang and the reverse is true if you like a quiet life.

By the way!!! You dont need to use !!! all the time!!! It makes you look like an overenthusiastic puppy!!!!!!

Edited January 27, 2005 by Bluffer