Questions About Qualifications

[PeaceBlondie]

Agreed, Bluffer. But city boys needn't settle just for Bangkok. Not that you'll save any more in CMai; you just might enjoy life more. And there are other cities besides Bangkok and Chiang Mai where you won't be the only farang in a day.

[ajarnwannabe]

Thanks for the advice guys, and I will lay off the !!! from now on. Well ive lived in Thailand for 1 year already, however im now back in the UK and I really love LOS, and yes I like the city life but im not sure if my teaching capabilities will be enough to cope with Bangkok, however I have a small problem, my girlfriend is in her final year at university in Bangkok and I told her last night that it might be better for me to teach in northern Thailand, She went crazy..........she said if I could learn her English and get her top grades, why cant I teach in Bangkok......so I just told her I have no formal EXPERIENCE and she just went off her head ......So you good "ajarns" out there... should I just hit the fire? and teach in Bangkok straight away? I dont mind 25000 baht a month from a school as my g/f has already got me a few privates lined up. But I still feel scared because I dont know if im teaching in the correct way........ so if any of you teachers on this board who are willing to let me observe you teach for a week " I will buy you quite a few beers for your efforts" I would be really grateful and also I know im not a teacher yet... but iam willing to learn and I really want to do this and it has nothing to do with that I have a g/f in Bangkok.......I just want to teach in country which I love. Thanks Guys

Edited January 27, 2005 by ajarnwannabe

[kenkannif]

You'll be fine finding some work in Bangkok at around the 30-35K Baht mark, maybe even more if your lucky or want to put in a few more hours!

Try to come ready for the end of (so plan to arrive late April early May to get used to everything and put yourself about a bit!) May or the early part of June as there's tons of jobs around then and you'd have to have some serious issue/problems not to get something.

I can probably help with you watching some teachers teach if you want mate? PM me! And also try and get a multiple entry Non-imm Visa before you come, again PM me and I'll tell you how to (although it depends on where you are?) with the minimum of hassle!

[ajarnwannabe]

Thanks a lot you Guys, i am really grateful for your help

Carl

[Jack Jones]

You definitely need to improve your spelling and grammer or you'll be passing on bad habits. You said you took a TEFL? Do they teach this element in their courses or is that an additional course you could look to take?

[ajarnwannabe]

You definitely need to improve your spelling and grammer or you'll be passing on bad habits. You said you took a TEFL? Do they teach this element in their courses or is that an additional course you could look to take?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL yes I have completed a T.E.F.L course and my spelling and grammer is getting better, I have just brought a good book so hopefully it will improve and i am a good learner and most important I WANT to learn, as I have said before I am not saying I am a teacher but hopefully this time next year I maybe nearer to become a teacher than I am now. Everybody has to start somewhere and like many other people out there I just want to give this my best shot, I also know that many of you who are reading my posts think ive got no chance but if I dont try then I will never know but I am going to put my heart and soul into this so hopefully it work out and I am only 25 so yes I have a lot of learning to do. The point I am trying to make is that I want to do this for the right reasons and I think everyone who is a teacher now has been where I am now, so instead of taking the piss just think what you are doing to my confidence, I am looking for a bit of support not the piss taking out of me, so instead of laughing at me try and help me, there are a lot of people whos spelling and grammer is better than mine and who are teaching now in LOS but why are they there? for many they are just doing it because that is all they can do in LOS and couldnt care less for their students so are they good teachers? So please as i have said please just give me a chance and hopefully I will prove a lot of people wrong.

Edited January 30, 2005 by ajarnwannabe

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay; come ahead and 'give it a go.' By the way, these guys weren't being too rough on you (they're much worse when they're drunk or in a bad mood). We can tell you're sincere and motivated, so get ready and come ahead. Good luck.

[ajarnwannabe]

You'll be fine finding some work in Bangkok at around the 30-35K Baht mark, maybe even more if your lucky or want to put in a few more hours!

Try to come ready for the end of (so plan to arrive late April early May to get used to everything and put yourself about a bit!) May or the early part of June as there's tons of jobs around then and you'd have to have some serious issue/problems not to get something.

I can probably help with you watching some teachers teach if you want mate? PM me! And also try and get a multiple entry Non-imm Visa before you come, again PM me and I'll tell you how to (although it depends on where you are?) with the minimum of hassle!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kenkannif, I have tried to P.M you mate about your offer of help, but I dont think the message has been sent. Here is my email: [email protected]. If you could please send me a email I will be really grateful as I would really appreciate your help. Thanks Carl

[kenkannif]

Will respond shortly mate, no worries.

[Jack Jones]

I'm not taking the p*ss, just asking whether there are some courses available to help you improve in this area, as your posts don't inspire confidence.

I applaud your motivation and enthusiasm, this just needs to be tempered with an improvement in quality.

BTW: I'm not a teacher

[kenkannif]

Spell check and good lesson planning will solve that!

I've known many superb dyslexic teachers, not a big deal to be honest IMO!

Bear in mind often we're dealing with conversational classes, and working directly from a book....that's not to say it's unimportant, but it's not the end of the world if your spelling or grammar is a little bit hit and miss....I mean look at me!

[Ijustwannateach]

You definitely need to improve your spelling and grammer or you'll be passing on bad habits. You said you took a TEFL? Do they teach this element in their courses or is that an additional course you could look to take?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was really, really, trying to hold back on mentioning this, but since you decided to rub it in to the other poster:

The spelling you're looking for is "grammar."

[Ajarn]

You definitely need to improve your spelling and grammer or you'll be passing on bad habits. You said you took a TEFL? Do they teach this element in their courses or is that an additional course you could look to take?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was really, really, trying to hold back on mentioning this, but since you decided to rub it in to the other poster:

The spelling you're looking for is "grammar."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hence, the reason why I only rarely criticise the spelling and grammar of others, for my house is made of glass like the rest of us mortals.

[jerry921]

dr k.c. asked a very similar question to mine, but I'd like to ask again, giving extra personal details, in case anyone would like to add anything to what was written above. If not, I won't be offended by "see above" or being ignored completely.

I have a B.S. and M.S. in Computer Science, and a Ph.D. from an "Electrical and Computer Engineering" department, although my dissertation was a C.S. topic. I've always presented myself as a Comp. Sci. Phd. All degrees were from U.S. universities that are typically ranked between 40 and 60 on the "top 100" lists of U.S. universities, (which of course exclude Oxford, Cambridge, etc.) I have always thought of my schools as being in the second tier below the very good schools.

I'm 44, and have no research record to speak of, but about 20 years of experience in the computer industry as a software engineer. I no longer have a really hot technical skill that I can claim to be a world-class subject-matter expert on. (I did once, but it became obsolete).

I have taught an undergraduate class (3 hours/week) for a year (3 terms, 3 sets of students).

I have no teaching credentials, no TEFL.

I love teaching. I have often been complimented on my ability to explain technical things in ways non-technical people could understand. I was interested in teaching as a career while in High School, and did a career-studies project as a 12th grader that involved teaching an algebra lecture to 9th graders and a math lecture to 7th graders. The 7th graders ate me for lunch, but 9th grade was o.k.

My grammar, punctuation and vocabulary are quite good, I believe. On college and graduate entrance exams (standardized tests in the U.S., the SAT and GRE) I scored in the 96th percentile or so. My spelling is mediocre. (For example, I first wrote "not an embarrassment" but decided I wasn't sure about one 'r' or two.)

I've been told by international students that my spoken English is easy for them to understand (I grew up in the Washington D.C. area and so my accent is, I suppose, in some sense "standard" American)

So, thanks for reading all that, here are my questions:

1) If I decide to take the plunge and come to Thailand, should I then focus on finding a TEFL job, a Computer Science teaching job, or a programming job? I suspect I have no programming skills that couldn't also be found without hiring a farang. But I wonder if my experience might be valuable to, e.g. a Thai outsourcing company. (I also have a project management credential and some experience doing that.) I have no network in Thailand, though there are two Thais I used to know that I could look up who might help me.

2) Is there somewhere a current discussion of what sort of lifestyle various given salary levels provide? (I think I want to stay in BKK). I visited Thailand in 1990 for 3 months so I can partly envision what it might be like to live in a western-style condo or above a noodle shop or in a cement low-rise buried way back in some Soi. I'm certain I couldn't afford a car or pickup truck, and wouldn't really want one. How would a Visiting Prof at CMU go to work everyday? In a taxi? Would riding the bus cause a loss of face? Somehow I think being whisked to work on the back of a scooter being driven by a Thai in flip-flops might not be good for one's reputation.

Well, thanks to everyone who's read this long winded post. All advice appreciated!

Edited February 6, 2005 by jerry921

[ChrisP]

2) Is there somewhere a current discussion of what sort of lifestyle various given salary levels provide? (I think I want to stay in BKK).

I found this on ajarn.com

(If the link gets removed.. look for "Cost of Living" on that site!)

I hope it helps..!

http://www.ajarn.com/Banter/costofliving.htm

ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

Regarding your first point above:

Not having a cutting-edge corner on some skill market is not really necessary for a comp-sci job here- lots of foreign companies here need routine-type tech workers who are simply either a) competent and reliable, or fluent in English, or both. With your resume, I'd assume you'll have no problems competing here as long as you find an opening. This type of job would be best to get before you come, if possible.

Otherwise there's the TEFL mill, in which your academic credentials do little more than give you the option of also working in universities- the "big" international schools would probably still prefer to see some credentials with Ed. after them- in which case you'd do best to read over the above where it discusses what the TEFL options are.

"Steven"

[jerry921]

This type of job would be best to get before you come, if possible.

Otherwise there's the TEFL mill...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks! That's very good to know. I'd seen several places where the advice (for TEFL) was to search/apply after arrival. I'll poke around a bit on whatever job boards I can find for CS jobs.

I'd about come to the conculsion that my best bet was to come, take a TEFL course, and then do a job search for computer or TEFL work.

I'm sold on the idea of getting a TEFL cert if I'm going to teach English -- I need both the teaching-training and a grammar brush-up. Maybe with that I could land a job teaching multiple subjects in an EP program or even a small-i international school?

I'd like to thank all the posters here for their posting and let them know that some newbies actually read it. I've spent the last 3 days going over this stuff, including when I should have been watching the Super Bowl. I'd never even heard of CELTA before I started reading. Its all very helpful (certain posts aside of course).

Edited February 7, 2005 by jerry921

[PeaceBlondie]

Professors at CMU probably are quite in fashion riding their own motorcycle to work. I do, and I teach 'high school.'

[Ajarn]

I really appreciate your seriousness about being a teacher here. Respectable teachers do get respect, in my experience. But you needn't worry too much about transportation as a face issue. Thais will be more noticeable and judgemental of your shoes, rather than the shoes (or lack of them) of your driver

Of course, your expressed preference for Bangkok would preclude working at CMU, but whatever university you're in is bound to be awash in office politics, more among the woman, in my experience, but still easy to get sucked into.

Besides the salary and politics, I think it's a nice life in most universities.

Best of Luck. You'll need it

Edited February 7, 2005 by Ajarn

[SciGuyUS]

I'm brand new to this forum so please excuse me if I'm in the wrong place or posting the wrong thing.

My wife and I are both teachers in the US, but are looking to expand our (and our two pre-school children) lives. We would really like to move to Thailand in the next few years. We love teaching and want to continue with it. We also want to expose our daughters to a life and culture other than the sometimes wasteful and excessive culture of the US. We are currently looking at a variety of places, but thought here would be a good place to start our research.

I am a science teacher endorsed in the physical sciences and currently have a Masters degree in education. My wife is a middle school teacher with an emphasis in science and math, but qualified to teach english etc. She will be finishing her Masters degree in education in the next year.

My questions are:

Are there any schools that would be willing to hire us given that we would come as a family?

Would we be able to afford a comfortable(not lavish, just simple) lifestyle for our children?

Where are some of the better places to live in Thailand? (Avoiding places with lots of crime etc.)

What sorts of teaching jobs would my wife and I qualify for?

I've been reading some of the posts on this site and it seems the majority lean toward single people living and working in Thailand. We wouldn't necessarily be up rooting our family as we are still a young family, but we would like to give ourselves and our daughter the chance to experience life outside of the US.

Thank you all so much. I look forward to your kindness and willingness to respond.

'Jason'

[Ijustwannateach]

SciGuy, you have the highest possible level of qualifications for teaching here, and in science yet! You *will* be living fairly poshly, especially if both you and your wife work! You can probably count on 120K+ B/month for each of you, adjusted for your teaching experience.

In your case, for best results you need to get in touch with the "real" international school hiring network (which I must bashfully admit I have no idea how to find, because I am certainly not qualified to that extent) and express your interest, and go through their procedures to make sure you are getting fair international market rates for your teaching. It would also be possible for you to come here and interview around, but "local" hires are viewed with suspicion and may reduce the conditions you are offered (though with proper references you may get around this). Good luck, and stay in touch with us from the atmospheric heights!

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

SciGuy, you and your wife have similar-sounding credentials to my oldest daughter, who has three children. Even if she were married to a spouse of similar credentials, I would never want my grandchildren being educated in the Thai system, even at an international school which is horrendously expensive. You do wish for your children to know how to think creatively, and to analyze problems on their own, don't you?

Why Thailand? Why not Japan or Singapore or Taiwan. Those other countries might teach your children better than the Thai system (public or private) will, from what the Westerner teachers in Thailand have consistently been saying all along.

[SciGuyUS]

SciGuy, you and your wife have similar-sounding credentials to my oldest daughter, who has three children.  Even if she were married to a spouse of similar credentials, I would never want my grandchildren being educated in the Thai system, even at an international school which is horrendously expensive.  You do wish for your children to know how to think creatively, and to analyze problems on their own, don't you?

Why Thailand?  Why not Japan or Singapore or Taiwan.  Those other countries might teach your children better than the Thai system (public or private) will, from what the Westerner teachers in Thailand have consistently been saying all along.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you so much for your concern. I guess my reply would be that the kind of education I wish for my childeren isn't necessarily one that they will get from a book or a place called school. My wife and I can teach them anything from a book, and how to be 'critical' thinkers, but reading about the world outside the US isn't the same as experiencing it. And as I said in my first post, Thailand is just our steppnig stone.

Thank you again,

Jason

[jerry921]

Best of Luck. You'll need it 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks...

I'm going to start another thread somewhere to ask a bit more about the shoe thing...

[Ijustwannateach]

SciGuy, you and your wife have similar-sounding credentials to my oldest daughter, who has three children.  Even if she were married to a spouse of similar credentials, I would never want my grandchildren being educated in the Thai system, even at an international school which is horrendously expensive.  You do wish for your children to know how to think creatively, and to analyze problems on their own, don't you?

Why Thailand?  Why not Japan or Singapore or Taiwan.  Those other countries might teach your children better than the Thai system (public or private) will, from what the Westerner teachers in Thailand have consistently been saying all along.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you so much for your concern. I guess my reply would be that the kind of education I wish for my childeren isn't necessarily one that they will get from a book or a place called school. My wife and I can teach them anything from a book, and how to be 'critical' thinkers, but reading about the world outside the US isn't the same as experiencing it. And as I said in my first post, Thailand is just our steppnig stone.

Thank you again,

Jason

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also, something that can be negotiated at most of these better schools is free attendance at those schools for the teachers' children... even some of the "worser" schools in Bangkok do this...

Good luck!

"Steven"

[SciGuyUS]

Also, something that can be negotiated at most of these better schools is free attendance at those schools for the teachers' children... even some of the "worser" schools in Bangkok do this...

Good luck!

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have any names of schools that may be considered better international schools? I've done some research, but all the 'international' schools 'look' good. Can you give any reference to those that have a reputation for being a 'good' international school? Thank you so very much for all of your help.

Jason

[kenkannif]

There's a list of the on here somewhere of most of the 'proper' international schools. I hope to update it soon (but don't hold your breath).

[SciGuyUS]

There's a list of the on here somewhere of most of the 'proper' international schools. I hope to update it soon (but don't hold your breath).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Awesome! I'll do a search and see what I can turn up. Thanks!.

Jason

[nokmdk]

Ijustwannateach:

Can you explain to me and perhaps others, the teaching permit obtained from MEO? My school says it is theirs to keep and once i do leave they will return it. I was under the impression that this is mine to keep? Also, if its true that i keep it, does this mean i do not have to prove myself to MEO each time i was to change schools?

Thank you

[kenkannif]

There's other threads here that cover that. Basically the TL is in two parts. One is for the school, one is for you! But unfortunately as each new employer (generally) has to get their part of the TL from the MoE having your part won't really help, you'll still need to go through the same procedure basically! So no much of an advantage at all!

Q Can my employer refuse to give me my teacher's license when I leave?

A It's common for schools to hang on to your teacher's license (both the permanent version and the version issued to that school for your current contract period) while you're working there. Schools sometimes like to hang on to your passport and your blue work permit book too, officially for safekeeping, unofficially perhaps in an attempt to stop you disappearing at the end of the month. Remember that your passport is yours, the school has no right to keep it and it should be kept with you. The work permit has to be kept with you OR at your place of work during working hours: again the school has no automatic right to keep it in the school safe forever. At the basic minimum, keep a copy of the work permit in case you need it to refer to the number or issue/expiry date.

When you leave your work, the school must give you your permanent teacher's license (but not the current one issued for your employment) whether you leave Thailand or remain to go on to a new job. Check you have the original license with the original photograph and stamp on it. They have no right to keep the original permanent license and give you only a copy. It's yours, not theirs.

And it's the MoE not the MEO!