Questions About Qualifications

[nokmdk]

Sorry for typo, i was in a hurry at the time. Ok so having the permit really does nothing for me other than working the right side of Thai law?

I was hoping i could keep the permit after i had moved onto something new.

Once i do leave the school, the new school would have to have all my paper work once again? I had a hard enough time with this school doing it for me as i had to prove all ducuments were valid and real.

Will the permit at least make the next go around less stressfull and less paper work for myself?

[kenkannif]

Sorry for typo, i was in a hurry at the time. Ok so having the permit really does nothing for me other than working the right side of Thai law?

Basically it enables/helps you to get your WP!

I was hoping i could keep the permit after i had moved onto something new.

Yes, you can do that!

Once i do leave the school, the new school would have to have all my paper work once again?

Yep, basically!

I had a hard enough time with this school doing it for me as i had to prove all ducuments were valid and real.

Depends on who you work for, generally the MoE don't check!

Will the permit at least make the next go around less stressfull and less paper work for myself?

Maybe a tad, but no not really!

[Ijustwannateach]

^I endorse all of the above! Think of it, in terms of the paperwork, to be like the visa- you have to have it, but having had one before doesn't guarantee anything about the future.... In fact, if there was some problem with that school's paperwork, it may actually tangle you up before getting your new job (because you have to go back and get the papers).

There's a thread down below somewhere about Red Tape... take a look for it and that'll give you the whole slog of bureaucracy...

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

You endorse all of the above....why thanks

[Ijustwannateach]

[nokmdk]

The school was saying MoE said my transcripts where great but my degree looked funny so they wanted an email from my University verifying i was there. they got that easy enough. So now i guess if i move on the next school would have the same problem and MoE would want me to prove it once more. Now thats what i call red tape.

[Ijustwannateach]

yup, and guess what happens if part of your diploma/transcript is in a foreign language- oh, let's say even a DEAD foreign language (like Latin or Greek)? Ever tried to find an official Government-registered Greek-to-English translator? You will now- every time you change jobs!

"Steven"

[nokmdk]

Then you would reccomend getting all ducuments certified from your local government right? I would do this but im scared the MoE would loose them and i'd be back to sqaure one again.

Japan or even China is starting to look very good to me.

[Rumpole]

Japan or even China is starting to look very good to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree more! A fraction of the hassle and a lot more appreciation; or at least that has been my experience in China.

[Tom Kagai]

Hope all posters here will find something useful to them!

Dear IJWT:

I'd like to take you up on your offer re. vetting of qualifications please.

I have a BA(Hons) degree in Business Studies and an HNC in Business & Finance. I decided some time back that I want to re-locate to Thailand but, being in my early 40's, I want (and probably need) to continue working and not view it as an early retirement and/or 'timeout'. Teaching seemed to me to be a viable option and something that I would enjoy doing so I'm now halfway through a TEFL. Fitting all the homestudy around a full time job in the UK (Yuk!) is quite protracted but I know I'll complete by May or before.

Anyway, to cut to the chase........ With a genuine degree and a tefl (C.O.E.S.) TESOL but no actual classroom experience (other than some P.E. that I teach in my spare time here) will I be 'employable' ?

N.B. I know Bangkok quite well, but I'm looking at setting up initially inland (I'm particularly fond of Korat)

Thanks in advance for any tips.

[Ijustwannateach]

The first thing to look at in this case is the location you're choosing, because in Thailand there are two worlds in regard to teaching wages: in Bangkok, and out of it.

Out of Bangkok, except for a few rare "real" schools dotted here and there over the landscape, for which you would probably not be qualified (you'd need an education qualification in your home country) you're looking at a wage ceiling of about 40-45K, I think. Having said that, given the low number of teachers who want to work in the country and the qualifications you've listed, I'd say you'd have no problem making that kind of money there, even in your first year. Good luck!

"Steven"

[Tom Kagai]

The first thing to look at in this case is the location you're choosing, because in Thailand there are two worlds in regard to teaching wages:  in Bangkok, and out of it.

Out of Bangkok, except for a few rare "real" schools dotted here and there over the landscape, for which you would probably not be qualified (you'd need an education qualification in your home country) you're looking at a wage ceiling of about 40-45K, I think.  Having said that, given the low number of teachers who want to work in the country and the qualifications you've listed, I'd say you'd have no problem making that kind of money there, even in your first year.  Good luck!

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IJWT:

Many thanks for the re-assurance.

Same also to the moderating team for all the gen. on visa's, permits and life in general. How on earth did anyone ever learn 'the rules' before this forum was around?

[Ijustwannateach]

I think it had something to do with smoke signals...

[Ijustwannateach]

Pooh recently posted:

Hello. Saw this other post about the guy who was wondering what his chances are getting a teaching job in Thailand and want to ask the same question. Recently got this dream about moving there. Im a 32 year old male from Norway. Studying to be a teacher, mainly arts and crafts, but also got some dramatics. Next year Im gonna study english for primary school. My grammer is currently crap, but hope to fix that then. But I do speak good english. eh, well it sounds good 

What kind of jobs could I get? Would prefere to work with kidds cuz Im obviously more teacher than english. But doubt I will speak Thai good enough for that as long as Im up north.

Let's see....

Sadly, in many aspects of TEFL in Thailand, not being a native speaker is no barrier to the foreign teacher. Even more sadly, all foreign non-native speakers are not equal- because of the racist factor. Your white skin (assuming you are like the average Norwegian) will beat any Asian non-native speaker in an interview, almost regardless of qualification. But that's lucky for you, because it means you probably will find a job.

What kind of job? Well, in Bangkok things are getting tougher for those who don't have pretty competitive qualifications- however, there are always the exceptions that prove the rule. You'd be limited, though, to the dodgier places that don't pay as well (probably 25K or so) and yes, you'd be teaching younger kids or conversational beginners, I hope, because English at that level would be easy enough for you.

Out in the country the white face is all that matters, and you'd be more or less on a level playing field competing for 30-35K.

Good luck!

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

^ IJWT,

Mate from his reply to me I get the impression he'll have a specific teaching degree!

Even the dodgier place in Bangers pay more than 25K! It's not quite that bad I don't think.

Also he's not coming for a couple of years....so maybe it's a bit premature to quote possible wages

[Ijustwannateach]

Maybe so, but still a non-native speaker- I think the 40K+ places are really going to be looking for better than the level he seems to demonstrate by his post, especially if they're paying that kind of money for kid work- I would assume they'll be MORE competitive within a few years, too! You're right that salaries may change in a few years, but I left my crystal ball at home!

Anyway, he certainly will get a job, but I'd say in the lower salary tiers if it's based on English. Best of luck and all, though!

"Steven"

[Rumpole]

Also he's not coming for a couple of years....so maybe it's a bit premature to quote possible wages

Not necessarily. Most of the universities in Thailand have been offering the same crappy salaries for 15 years.

[kenkannif]

I meant in regards to his quals THEN!

[Rumpole]

Hehe. Sorry, Ken. I'm not Smeg. I wasn't having a go at you.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Rumpole

[kenkannif]

No worries sorry for the use of CAPS

[gtrsmith]

Wow. i just read your questions and it seems like i have been looking for a place to talk in like this. i am entirely new to this lifestyle, and i was hoping that you could give me some pointers. i am graduating from college in a month with a BS, major in biology and minor in chemistry. i have no tefl, but would love to teach in bangkok, especially math and science. i have been searching on thailandteacher.com, and have emailed a few places my resume, which is not too underqualified, save i dont have a tefl. are there any schools in particular that you think i should be looking at? i have already been offered a job in koh samui with "the international academy," but the pay is very low - 25000 for 20 hours a week teaching. i was hoping that i could find a better deal in bangkok, but this is the only school to take any serious interest in me yet. can i expect to simply arrive in bangkok with a few interviews and find a job when i get there? i was surprised when you said that they were particularly interested in science teachers, cause that seems right up my ally. i have tutored biology and chemistry and would love to know what you thought my chances of finding a decent job in bangkok upon arrival were.

Thanks for the help! getting started is prooving itself to be a battle

all the best, Graham

[nokmdk]

gtrsmith

I think i will say something before some of the more elite jump all over you.

Get your grammar up to par and you will have no problems obtaining a job here.

25000 is average from what i have heard outside of BKK. Really low for inside BKK.

I myself, do not have a Tefl. Then again its about being here for the great jobs when the time arises.

Best of luck

[PeaceBlondie]

Maybe I'm not one of the more elite; I wouldn't jump all over that poster, because he's not looking to teach graduate level grammar at a nearly-real university in Thailand. As IJWT and Costas might point out, math and science teachers don't need good grammar, syntax, or spelling. They don't even need sin tax. My opening class in math was to make the students pronounce '63' differently than 'sick tree.'

[jerry921]

Maybe I'm not one of the more elite; I wouldn't jump all over that poster, because he's not looking to teach graduate level grammar at a nearly-real university in Thailand.  As IJWT and Costas might point out, math and science teachers don't need good grammar, syntax, or spelling.  They don't even need sin tax.  My opening class in math was to make the students pronounce '63' differently than 'sick tree.'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wan tew tree faugh

get yaw gamma off dah flaw

fie sex seben ate

who do we eviscerate?

[PeaceBlondie]

Maybe I'm not one of the more elite; I wouldn't jump all over that poster, because he's not looking to teach graduate level grammar at a nearly-real university in Thailand.  As IJWT and Costas might point out, math and science teachers don't need good grammar, syntax, or spelling.  They don't even need sin tax.  My opening class in math was to make the students pronounce '63' differently than 'sick tree.'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wan tew tree faugh

get yaw gamma off dah flaw

fie sex seben ate

who do we eviscerate?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And in Mexico, kids count to twenty in both English and Spanish, with a Transylvanian accent, courtesy of Sesame Street's " Count," aka Dracula. I had an immigrant, Romanian tax auditor working for me, who read the Internal Revenue Code with a Transylvanian accent.

[ozzydom]

During a very recent 3 week holiday in Southern China,I was offered teaching positions on three occasions. Salary offered was 10,000 rmb pm + small furnished apartment with computer supplied +500 rmb pm western food allowance + airline ticket to any country in world on completion of 2 year contract..I told the lady I was a retired fisherman not a teacher ,to which she replied that,s ok you speak english . 1 rmb = 2 thai baht approx .

Am now researching TESOL courses available in Chiang Mai.

[Ijustwannateach]

In a separate thread, Benedict posted:

My girlfriend and I are looking to move to Thailand in September or October. The reason being, we are looking to extend our Professional development in teaching English as a Foreign Language. However, in our research, thus far, it seems that it is essential to hold a TEFL related qualification. Could anyone clarify what a British teaching qualification is worth in Thailand? Will this limit us in the type of job we can apply for?

TEFL is not the same as teaching English to native speakers (as a humanities course). There is some overlap, in the sense that grammar is ultimately required for both, but the emphases and the core material are completely different. Most TEFLing uses grammar as a means to an end- communication- and barely touches on any kind of literature or writing. Instead of a knowledge-based course, you will be aiming to teach a skill-based course. It is likely that your background training as a humanities teacher has not adequately prepared you to teach English as a foreign language. New classroom management issues, a different focus on content, and entirely activity-based learning will be some of the things are your learning curve.

Having said that, your background will not hurt you as a TEFLer, either. I would recommend getting some kind of training, though, to give you some idea of what TEFLing is about before you get into a classroom and start trying to do sentence diagramming or Milton or anything like that.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Wow.  i just read your questions and it seems like i have been looking for a place to talk in like this.  i am entirely new to this lifestyle, and i was hoping that you could give me some pointers.  i am graduating from college in a month with a BS, major in biology and minor in chemistry.  i have no tefl, but would love to teach in bangkok, especially math and science.  i have been searching on thailandteacher.com, and have emailed a few places my resume, which is not too underqualified, save i dont have a tefl.  are there any schools in particular that you think i should be looking at?  i have already been offered a job in koh samui with "the international academy," but the pay is very low - 25000 for 20 hours a week teaching.  i was hoping that i could find a better deal in bangkok, but this is the only school to take any serious interest in me yet.  can i expect to simply arrive in bangkok with a few interviews and find a job when i get there?  i was surprised when you said that they were particularly interested in science teachers, cause that seems right up my ally.  i have tutored biology and chemistry and would love to know what you thought my chances of finding a decent job in bangkok upon arrival were. 

Thanks for the help!  getting started is prooving itself to be a battle

all the best, Graham

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, Graham. Your qualifications seem excellent, though I would recommend trying to get a teaching qualification in your home country before coming here. It may take a couple of years, but it will immediately double your starting salary here (something that could take from 10 years to forever to do otherwise). Furthermore, please be aware as a recent graduate that salaries here really do not support expensive student loan payments- not that that stops some of us.

Even if you don't get the teaching qualification, in some of the better EP programs you'd be making 50-60K+. However, those types of schools usually have staff who know a good thing when they see it- they'll hang on to those jobs and pass them on to friends. You'd be more likely to get them on the ground, so to speak, especially after having established contacts here. Good luck.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

In a separate thread, Sawatdee7 posted:

My qualifications are as follows:

Bachelor's Degree in English-Education, secondary-education teaching certificate. Four years teaching experience (one year in private school and 3 years public school).

Master's Degree in Educational Media, secondary-education teaching certificate (Video and Film Production, Educational Media Specialist). Ten years experience in public vocational school.

+30 credits in Mathematics, teaching certificate. No teaching experience in math.

You certainly are on the over-qualified side, as another poster commented on your original thread. This means that you will have a wide variety of low-level, poorly-paying jobs to choose from, plus you'll be a shoe-in for most of the better jobs as well, assuming that they become available at the right time for you.

Since your cards are good on the qualifications side and the paperwork side, the best thing you can probably do is wait for the right time. The ideal time for you to come and interview would be April/May, which means waiting pretty much until next year when the better jobs at better schools become available (and are occasionally advertised).

However, as the best laid plans of mice and teachers in Thailand gang aft agley, I'd suggest that it's worth the time invested to come and get into a pretty crappy job, whatever's available, just to get the feel for things and start networking. Then you can learn about what the better places are and put yourself in the best position for those jobs when and if they open up.

I would like to teach English in Thailand.

1. What type of English teaching positions would be available to me? What would be the basic salary?

This has been covered many times, but basically if you take anything offered you're probably stuck at 30K a month; if you're choosy and looking at the right time, you could probably go up to 50K+ without much trouble (but check out the reputations of schools which offer that much; sometimes they offer the money because they're interested in quality employees; sometimes because they have such a bad rep that no one would otherwise apply).

Types of positions? Well, in English teaching you basically have:

1. TEFL, and

2. Non-TEFL.

Non-Tefl would mean language arts and require a bit more experience and more effort on the job- composition, literature, and high-level grammar. TEFL is, well, TEFL. Your TEFL jobs are the 30-40K range, your non-TEFL tend to be a bit higher paid (though not really high enough, IMO).

From the sound of it, you'd easily be qualified for the language arts, and probably not have too much trouble with TEFL (but if you haven't done it before, it can be a bit intimidating- probably be best to get a quick prep course to build your repetoire of tricks- though you would obviously already know about classroom management).

You mention your math experience. Math-teaching jobs are at a higher premium at the moment because of the scarcity of people who are even semi-qualified; you'd find higher (though not much higher) relative salaries on offer for that, too.

2. Would it be necessary (or preferable) to take an additional course in Tesol or Toefl, etc. to get a better job?

I don't think you'd find a much better job (given your qualifications) simply because of a TEFL, but I think you might feel more comfortable walking into a classroom where the focus was on English-speaking skills rather than on language arts. It *is* a different ball of wax.

3. Would the schools assist me in getting the one year non-immigrant visas and work permit?

This is an excellent question, but only the individual schools can answer this, and they often lie or don't know what they're doing. You should read a lot of the other threads in this room. Basically, the only way to find out if they really will give you proper papers is to check if the other foreign teachers also have them, and that doesn't necessarily guarantee you'll be treated equally. It ain't Kansas anymore....

4. I am presently living in my condo in Pattaya/Jomtien area; what teaching jobs are available here? I would also be willing to relocate to Bangkok or Chaing Mai as well.

Oops- so you already know Thailand- do you have any teacher connections already? Connections are very valuable here; don't be afraid to take advantage of them.

Bangkok would be best for teaching jobs, obviously, followed by Chiang Mai and Pattaya in that order... depends on your priorities.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Great response as usual, Steven. However - isn't the poster about as well qualified as he or she can be for working at either one of the 'bestest most qualified mostest international' schools in Thailand that pay Western-level salaries, above 100,000 baht per month? If they don't want these kind of qualifications (esp. since he can teach math as well as any level of English), do they just want 22 year old pretty faces to throw into the inferno for one short year or less?

Couldn't he teach English at one of the top five universities in Thailand, even if their academic standards don't resemble those of the UK, Uzbekistan, or Uganda?