About Dave

[chiang mai]

Is Dave gay?

Don't piss people off.

Don't sleep with young boys.

What on earth was an middle-aged Englishman doing with a 16 year old hill tribe boy in his room. Giving pocket money - come on, I wasn't born yesterday.

We do not believe that Dave is gay and I believe I said that in the post and we (other expats and myself included) also gave the lad twenty or fifty baht on occasion. I am not aware that Dave ever slept with the boy and indeed he has said that he never had - you see to believe he did. I never said that the boy was 16, you did and we really don't know how old he is, even now. I also DID NOT say that he had the boy in his room, you did!

I also don't believe that you were born yesterday but your reading skills do leave somethings to be desired.

[chiang mai]

Thanks for the PM's I have received - now that the first half of this story is ended we will begin to follow the route a couple of people have suggested.

[Jingthing]

I don't know what PM's you received, but if what you say is true, surely there must be a way to apply international pressure on the Thai government to provide a pardon for a man that was railroaded and may die as a result. The sad thing is that pedo charges are such a hot button that most people won't touch it with a 100 foot pole. If the charges are made, he must be guilty. A very sad story and thanks for bringing it to our attention.

[richard10365]

Didn't Michael Jackson go through something similar out in California?

[Pink Mist]

had to happen sooner or later a troll appears

[Tolley]

Scary story really and highlights how vulnerable all farangs are in Thailand.

Obviously we don't know how true this story is but there have been enough examples over the years of dodgy convictions in Thailand to realise that it could very well be true.

Forget about the embassy trying to assist as that is very unlikely to happen.

Do whatever you can to get out...pay bribes, skip bail etc

I would have taken the risk and skipped the country....after all you could hardly be in any worse trouble.

[buriramboy]

i agree why the hel_l didn't he just get out the country, the prosecution were probably expecting him too, so they could keep his bail money hence setting the trial for 3 years, giving him plenty of time to get out.

I mean its not exactly difficult, pick a neighboring country, cross the border either legally or illegaly (who cares in his situation) and never return.

BB

[ColPyat]

i agree why the hel_l didn't he just get out the country, the prosecution were probably expecting him too, so they could keep his bail money hence setting the trial for 3 years, giving him plenty of time to get out.

I mean its not exactly difficult, pick a neighboring country, cross the border either legally or illegaly (who cares in his situation) and never return.

BB

Just to be arrested in his homecountry on the same pedophile charges, or be a fugitive forever?

Regarless of his guilt or innocence, which to decide i am definately not qualified, prison here on these charges will definately be preferrable than back in the west as he here would not have to face the violence he would have to face in the west from fellow prisoners and guards.

[Nikkijah]

i agree why the hel_l didn't he just get out the country, the prosecution were probably expecting him too, so they could keep his bail money hence setting the trial for 3 years, giving him plenty of time to get out.

I mean its not exactly difficult, pick a neighboring country, cross the border either legally or illegaly (who cares in his situation) and never return.

BB

Just to be arrested in his homecountry on the same pedophile charges, or be a fugitive forever?

Regarless of his guilt or innocence, which to decide i am definately not qualified, prison here on these charges will definately be preferrable than back in the west as he here would not have to face the violence he would have to face in the west from fellow prisoners and guards.

Partially true, but in the west he may not be convicted or sentenced because there doesn't seem to be any real hard evidence against him.

Sad story, sad for everybody involved.

[younghusband]

had to happen sooner or later a troll appears

Possibly a troll or perhaps not.If it looks like a duck,swims like a duck and quacks like a duck....on the face of it, and conceding until all the evidence is in that one cannot be sure, it probably is a duck.

Edited January 28, 2007 by younghusband

[Pink Mist]

i agree why the hel_l didn't he just get out the country, the prosecution were probably expecting him too, so they could keep his bail money hence setting the trial for 3 years, giving him plenty of time to get out.

I mean its not exactly difficult, pick a neighboring country, cross the border either legally or illegaly (who cares in his situation) and never return.

BB

Just to be arrested in his homecountry on the same pedophile charges, or be a fugitive forever?

Regarless of his guilt or innocence, which to decide i am definately not qualified, prison here on these charges will definately be preferrable than back in the west as he here would not have to face the violence he would have to face in the west from fellow prisoners and guards.

so he is guilty??????????

[ColPyat]

so he is guilty??????????

What do i know?

He may be, or he may be not.

I just commented on the advice of making a runner, which in a case like this, with charges that, regardless of guilt or not, will not earn anyone any sympathy, and will be followed up by interpol due to the political climate definately.

At times there is just damage control possible, especially if you can't afford a good lawyer, and a few years Thai jail without violence then is better than being a fugitive who most likely will get caught and then go through real hel_l. And there is more you can do from within a prison if you are innocent, than while being on the run and not have some substantial financial support that buys you the necessary fake ID's and allows you to life outside the system.

There are charges you are better off doing a runner, may that because your sentence will be so long that is doesn't matter anyhow, or because there is little chance that it will ever be followed up as long as you stay below the radar, or you have enough pull that keeps you out of jail.

This though is not one of them, and according to the OP, the accused, being a trader, is not exactly the person who is prepared for life as a fugitive.

[chiang mai]

i agree why the hel_l didn't he just get out the country, the prosecution were probably expecting him too, so they could keep his bail money hence setting the trial for 3 years, giving him plenty of time to get out.

I mean its not exactly difficult, pick a neighboring country, cross the border either legally or illegaly (who cares in his situation) and never return.

BB

What you say seems sensible but it's not until you sit down and actively try to plan something like that you realize it's actually a lot harder than you think, if not impossible. Leaving one country is easy but getting an entry stamp into another is difficult and without the entry stamp you cannot depart from that country legally. If you suddenly show up in say Malaysia and claim to have lost your passport a lot of questions will be asked about how you arrived there. Checks will show that you originated here and hence it's back to square one. All the other options of ships and planes are fine in a romantic sense but the practical obstacles are huge.

[Phil Conners]

so he is guilty??????????

What do i know?

He may be, or he may be not.

I just commented on the advice of making a runner, which in a case like this, with charges that, regardless of guilt or not, will not earn anyone any sympathy, and will be followed up by interpol due to the political climate definately.

At times there is just damage control possible, especially if you can't afford a good lawyer, and a few years Thai jail without violence then is better than being a fugitive who most likely will get caught and then go through real hel_l. And there is more you can do from within a prison if you are innocent, than while being on the run and not have some substantial financial support that buys you the necessary fake ID's and allows you to life outside the system.

There are charges you are better off doing a runner, may that because your sentence will be so long that is doesn't matter anyhow, or because there is little chance that it will ever be followed up as long as you stay below the radar, or you have enough pull that keeps you out of jail.

This though is not one of them, and according to the OP, the accused, being a trader, is not exactly the person who is prepared for life as a fugitive.

Regardless of guilt, I would take my chances in order to get a fair trial in the west rather than the farce here.

[ColPyat]

Regardless of guilt, I would take my chances in order to get a fair trial in the west rather than the farce here.

Such as the fair chance to be extradited straight back here?

And how are you gonna make it to the west, in the first place? That's a few logistics between here and there, do you have the necessary contacts and money that allow you to travel undetected? I doubt that a white collar trader on an extended holiday does have the necessary survival skills for such a stunt.

[ColPyat]

I have met in my years here more than a few fugitives. Most of them were long before they came here well versed in street life, and still, all i can remember either were caught, gave themselves up after a while, or still life a shitty street existence of begging and scamming which makes me wonder what may be worse - a few years prison with at least food and shelter, or eternity on the edge of civilisation.

It's generally for most of them not like in the movies, plenty of money from nowhere appearing - it's public parks, dirt and constant fear.

Edit:

I actually recall one guy who was running from a minor charge, and was able to sit out the limit, and then get back to normalcy. It still was a shit life during those years.

Edited January 28, 2007 by ColPyat

[Naam]

And how are you gonna make it to the west, in the first place? That's a few logistics between here and there, do you have the necessary contacts and money that allow you to travel undetected? I doubt that a white collar trader on an extended holiday does have the necessary survival skills for such a stunt.

what logistics? he made visa runs, that means he was abroad and in possesssion of his passport. his embassy would have provided him with a one-way ticket home. at least the embassies/consulates of my country are by law required to do so.

if this was not the case he could have asked his friends to help him out. how much is a ticket from Vientiane or Pnom Penh to Europe?

[Phil Conners]

Regardless of guilt, I would take my chances in order to get a fair trial in the west rather than the farce here.

Such as the fair chance to be extradited straight back here?

And how are you gonna make it to the west, in the first place? That's a few logistics between here and there, do you have the necessary contacts and money that allow you to travel undetected? I doubt that a white collar trader on an extended holiday does have the necessary survival skills for such a stunt.

You know, I really couldn't care less what you think, I would get out, at whatever the cost, including the ultimate. Rather than than take my chances with the Thai legal system.

I don't know about your country, but I can't see anyone being extradited to Thailand from any W-European country. There was a case about a Dutch guy less than a year ago who did exactly this.

Edited January 28, 2007 by Phil Conners

[Livinginexile]

The Thai legal system is not that bad, no way they would persecute a man and charge him with pedaphilia if there was not some strong evidence.

As in the case of Robert Foley, the guy they jailed for 10 years on trumped up charges...sure he was set up but the guy was guilty as hel_l for drug traficing.

There is something you are not telling us....or something you do not know.

[Lucifer]

Doesn't add up.

If he was convicted on that evidance, the British Embassy would want to get involved.

Also, there are other bodys like justice for overseas prisoners, who would also get involved.

[mark lamai]

The Thai legal system is not that bad,

As in the case of Robert Foley, the guy they jailed for 10 years on trumped up charges...sure he was set up but the guy was guilty as hel_l for drug traficing.

= its "not bad" coz if you cant get someone on a real offence then a false one will do?

your ethical logic is very Thai it seems.

"There is something you are not telling us....or something you do not know."

Agree with this,why was this guy targeted by the police in the first place?

i dont hink they pick targets at random.

must have had very bad advice as well,

certainly sounds like a classic set up where you are supposed to buy your way out.

money in the right places would have made it all go away i reckon.

i believe that bail amounts are not fixed, so police can ask simply what they think the market will bear.

e.g. 10K for thai drunk driver, 40K for farang drunk driver.

why do you think you are allowed tio have a mobile phone in police cells,

and now some police stations have installed ATM's

money #1 , justice #2

[chiang mai]

The Thai legal system is not that bad, no way they would persecute a man and charge him with pedaphilia if there was not some strong evidence.

As in the case of Robert Foley, the guy they jailed for 10 years on trumped up charges...sure he was set up but the guy was guilty as hel_l for drug traficing.

There is something you are not telling us....or something you do not know.

I suppose it's possible that there is a part of this story that I am not aware of but frankly I am confident that is not the case. I am however certain that I have not left out any part of the story and that all salient facts have been included in the OP. It's only human nature to think that something like that couldnt possibly happen but the reality is that it does. Would you have believed two years ago that the government would have the police kill over 2,000 suspected drug dealers, no neither would I!

[chiang mai]

Doesn't add up.

If he was convicted on that evidance, the British Embassy would want to get involved.

Also, there are other bodys like justice for overseas prisoners, who would also get involved.

I have seen the letters that have been sent to the British Embassy on this subject setting out all the concerns, fact is I penned at least two of them myself. Response - none but I understand why. As for Amnesty Int etc - stay tuned.

[chiang mai]

And how are you gonna make it to the west, in the first place? That's a few logistics between here and there, do you have the necessary contacts and money that allow you to travel undetected? I doubt that a white collar trader on an extended holiday does have the necessary survival skills for such a stunt.

what logistics? he made visa runs, that means he was abroad and in possesssion of his passport. his embassy would have provided him with a one-way ticket home. at least the embassies/consulates of my country are by law required to do so.

if this was not the case he could have asked his friends to help him out. how much is a ticket from Vientiane or Pnom Penh to Europe?

Step me through the details of what you do when you cross the border into Laos or Cambodia and you have a passport that has no entry stamp into either of those countries. Tell me how you get from there onto a plane for anywhere.

[buriramboy]

this is SE Asia, i am sure most immigration posts would give you an entry stamp for a bribe in either Laos or Cambodia. Failing that enter the country illegally turn yourself in, pay your fine and get deported back to your home country. Thats what i would have done in his situation, i am presuming (maybe wrongly) that he is innocent.

BB

[altman]

his defence was a 'letter'? and for this he had pre-paid a lawyer so much money that he couldn't buy his way out?

was the 'letter' even notarized?

he was so concerned for the welfare of the boy that he was willing to risk jail rather than have him come forward and be subject of harassment by the police? or was he hiding something else?

maybe as you say. maybe not.

i'm not the judge but i can see some reason to doubt his innocence, and therefore consider his guilt.

[Pink Mist]

well it's got to the stage we thought it would, I am the judge here./ closed