Best bank account for a farang

[mogandave]

I don’t have Schwab, but the downside to my Fidelity card is that while it does refund ATM fees, and the exchange rate is good, it is picky about where it wants to work.

Not sure what rate they use, but I usually check the rate on XE, and it is spot on.

I use almost no cash in Thailand. I think the best value is to use a good no fees credit card for most everything.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, jerry921 said:

I understand what you're saying to mean that if I use my Schwab Visa Debit card at an ATM in Thailand, I'll get the Visa network rate (unless I get suckered into the DCC scam).

 

On the other hand, in this thread the focus is on opening a Thai bank account, and presumably money would be transferred to it via ACH (for BB) or Wire (or whatever?). In that case the exchange rate would be applied at the time of the ACH/Wire. Those exchange rates are set by the banks involved, correct? And aren't those bank rate spreads typically wider than the Visa/MC/Amex exchange rates?

 

So wouldn't using a Schwab card at a Thai ATM be the cheapest option with the best rate?

 

PS: Does the ATM network operator make a difference? My Schwab card has 3 logos on the back, Interlink, Plus and Money Pass. I think it used to be the case that you had to find an ATM with one of those logos on it for the card to be accepted, but I don't know if that's still true. I'm wondering if they are the real companies that set the exchange rate and not "Visa"?

Yes...if using a Visa card and not accepting a DCC offer you get the Visa exchange rate....a Mastercard you get the Mastercard exchange rate.  You do not get any FX related rate like shown at XE.com as these types of rates are what the BIG banks/wholesale/currency traders get; its not what the common bank gets on his debit/credit card or at a bank which converts currency like in an ACH/Wire/Swift transfer. 

 

Plus, FX rates are changing from second to second 24 hours a day.  Visa and Mastercard set a daily rate good for 24 hours...and banks such as Thai banks receiving incoming foreign currency will usually change their TT Buying Rate a few times each day....but not like every second like shown at FX type websites.   If allowing your home country bank to convert before sending (a bad idea due to their lower rates) then they probably change their rates a couple times per day also.

 

Of course person when using a card you must also calculate any foreign transaction fee your "card-issuing bank" may apply, any ATM User fee charged at the ATM like the Thai bank ATM Bt220 fee, and whether your card--issuing bank reimburses any ATM fee like the Schwab card does.   And for the ACH/SWIFT/wire transfer you must calculate in any sending, middle, and receiving bank fees.     

 

But from a perspective of just looking at the core exchange rate used "without any type of fee" the card-network (e.g., Visa, Mastercard) and the TT Buying Rate used by Thai banks for incoming funds are pretty close to each other.  On some days the Visa/Mastercard rate might be better....on other days the TT Buying Rate might be better.

 

Visa Exchange Rate Page

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html/

 

Mastercard Exchange Rate Page

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/consumers/get-support/convert-currency.html

 

A website that shows most Thai bank rates in one place versus needing to go to individual bank webpages.  Be sure to select currency type.  Select TT which means TT Buying Rate used for incoming transfers and then click Show rates. 

https://daytodaydata.net/default.aspx

 

The various network symbols like Cirrus, Plus, Interlink, etc., also shown on Visa/Mastercards does not affect the exchange rate, but does affect whether your card will work in certain ATMs/in certain Point of Sale machines.

 

Going with a card that does not charge a foreign transaction fee and reimburse ATM fees is hard to beat, but it's generally no good for getting BIG money quick...like if you needed to $5K or $10K in baht immediately since most cards are limited to $500 to $1000 daily withdrawal limit by the card-issuing bank.   I say hard to beat since the Visa/Mastercard/TT Buying Rates are very similar and if transfering via a bank-to-bank transfer you will have some fees somewhere....maybe not by the Sending bank or a Middleman bank, but Thai banks generally charge a 0.25% (Min Bt200, Bt500 max) for an incoming international transfer whether the funds arrive as a foreign currency or already converted to baht....it's really a "receiving" fee and not a "conversion" fee.

 

Now I didn't mention peer-to-peer money transfer service like Transferwise which does use a FX related exchange rate but Transferwise also cranks in some sending fees which varying depending on the currency pair type...like a USD to baht transfer usually incurs around 1% in fees....a pound to baht transfer around 0.5% in fees...but you don't get the Thai bank 0.25% fee on the receiving end since it's treated as a domestic transfer; not an international transfer.  

 

I all comes down to "pricing out the exchange rate plus all associated fees" as to which transfer method puts the most baht in your pocket.  Too many people seem to only talk the exchange not realizing some fees are effectively reducing that exchange rate.   Yeap, "exchange rate + fees" = net baht in your pocket.   

 

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

I don’t have Schwab, but the downside to my Fidelity card is that while it does refund ATM fees, and the exchange rate is good, it is picky about where it wants to work.

Not sure what rate they use, but I usually check the rate on XE, and it is spot on.

I use almost no cash in Thailand. I think the best value is to use a good no fees credit card for most everything.

What logo does the Fidelity card carry?  Visa or Mastercard? Edit: Ref Pib's post above ^.

 

Agreed on credit card use + one with a decent rewards scheme.  Great in a metro area where cards are widely accepted, not so good out in the village. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by 55Jay

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

What logo does the Fidelity card carry?  Visa or Mastercard? Edit: Ref Pib's post above ^.

 

Agreed on credit card use + one with a decent rewards scheme.  Great in a metro area where cards are widely accepted, not so good out in the village. 

 

 

Cirrus seems to be widely accepted.

 

Does the village have an ATM?

 

 

[55Jay]

7 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

Cirrus seems to be widely accepted.

Does the village have an ATM?

Was referencing his comment about credit card use. 

 

I did live outside a metro area for 4 years and was cash 'n' carry.  Live closer in to the city now, use the credit card more often; but still, the suburb where I live and spend most of my time is cash, small businesses, market, etc. 

 

When we go to the US, have to flip the brain switch and use the card for nearly everything there.  It's great, and the cash back racks up nicely.

Edited May 11, 2018 by 55Jay

[moana]

54 minutes ago, Pib said:

most cards are limited to $500 to $1000 daily withdrawal limit by the card-issuing bank

That's the ATM withdrawal limit. The limit is normally much higher for counter withdrawals with full identification (some are limited only to the funds in your account). I've withdrawn around 100K in one go in the past, no issues. 

 

May want to keep the receipt if you plan to send the funds out of Thailand in the future.

[55Jay]

20 minutes ago, moana said:

That's the ATM withdrawal limit. The limit is normally much higher for counter withdrawals with full identification (some are limited only to the funds in your account). I've withdrawn around 100K in one go in the past, no issues. 

 

May want to keep the receipt if you plan to send the funds out of Thailand in the future.

May vary from bank to bank as well as the bank on the receiving end. 

 

T&Cs for my Schwab Bank checking account using the Visa logo debit card is $1,000 a day for either ATM, cash back or over the counter withdrawal.  Can apply for a higher limit though.  

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, moana said:

That's the ATM withdrawal limit. The limit is normally much higher for counter withdrawals with full identification (some are limited only to the funds in your account). I've withdrawn around 100K in one go in the past, no issues. 

 

May want to keep the receipt if you plan to send the funds out of Thailand in the future.

It all depends on the limit set by your "card-issuing" bank; not the Thai bank.  

 

For a counter withdrawal at a Thai bank the bank has a higher limit...don't know what it is, but I have withdrawn Bt105K in one setting using two different US cards.   

 

In your cases, whoever issued your card...whatever bank/company it is, they may have a high daily withdrawal limit than the "standard U.S. Schwab Visa card" which is $1000/day as 55Jay showed above.   I will say all of my US debit and credit cards have a $1000 daily limit at an ATM and either a $1000 or $2000 daily limit for a counter withdrawal.  Now, if person has a high amount in their brokerage account or an international Schwab account your daily limit may be higher.

 

Yeap, the main driver is the daily limit set by your "card-issuing" bank; not the Thai bank.

[mogandave]

What logo does the Fidelity card carry?  Visa or Mastercard? Edit: Ref Pib's post above ^.
 
Agreed on credit card use + one with a decent rewards scheme.  Great in a metro area where cards are widely accepted, not so good out in the village. 

Visa, Plus, Interlink & Star

[mogandave]

Was referencing his comment about credit card use. 
 
I did live outside a metro area for 4 years and was cash 'n' carry.  Live closer in to the city now, use the credit card more often; but still, the suburb where I live and spend most of my time is cash, small businesses, market, etc. 
 
When we go to the US, have to flip the brain switch and use the card for nearly everything there.  It's great, and the cash back racks up nicely.

It is odd in the US when you try to hand them the card and they just look at you...then you remember you scan it yourself...

How about self checkout?

[55Jay]

7 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Visa, Plus, Interlink & Star

As long as you don't choose the DCC option, if offered, then you'll get the Visa rate. 

 

Here's the Visa site if you want to check it out.

 

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html/

 

 

 

[moana]

26 minutes ago, Pib said:

It all depends on the limit set by your "card-issuing" bank; not the Thai bank. 

I never said it depended on the Thai bank. Not sure what you are responding to. I simply thought that the counter withdrawal method was worth mentioning, since issuers often set a higher limit on that method than ATM withdrawals.

[mogandave]

As long as you don't choose the DCC option, if offered, then you'll get the Visa rate. 
 
Here's the Visa site if you want to check it out.
 
https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html/
 
 
 

I’ve only used it 10-15 times in a few different countries, and I always seem to get within a half percent of the XE rate.

I’ve only used it once in Thailand, that was right after I got it.

[moana]

Just now, mogandave said:

within a half percent of the XE rate

The XE rate is the mid-market rate, which is very hard to get when exchanging currencies. The visa rate is excellent, but it is not the mid-market rate (usually by 0.1-0.3 percent, depending on currency pair). One of the reasons is that the mid-market rate is constantly updating, while the card company rate is fixed for the day (they commit to a rate for 24 hours at midnight UTC).

[55Jay]

17 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I’ve only used it 10-15 times in a few different countries, and I always seem to get within a half percent of the XE rate.

I’ve only used it once in Thailand, that was right after I got it.

I do the same thing, look at XE rate as a ballpark, and Visa will be a little less than that.

Visa rate today:

1 Thai Baht = 0.031315 USD.

 

XE at the moment:

1 THB = 0.0313924 USD. 

 

My credit card is Mastercard logo though, they have their own calculator site.   I get 1.5% back on purchases and figure it just degrades that a bit.  I don't sweat it anymore, and just get on with life. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by 55Jay

[mogandave]

I do the same thing, look at XE rate as a ballpark, and Visa will be a little less than that.
Visa rate today:
1 Thai Baht = 0.031315 USD.
 
XE at the moment:
1 THB = 0.0313924 USD. 
 
My credit card is Mastercard logo though, they have their own calculator site.   I get 1.5% back on purchases and figure it just degrades that a bit.  I don't sweat it anymore, and just get on with life. 

My CC is a Chase Visa. I get 1% everything, 2% travel & restaurants. The big big savings is the “no foreign transaction fee”

Yeah, I don’t get too caught up in it, but I do hate bank fees!

Thai cards are okay, I don’t use them much since I got the no fees Chase card.

[55Jay]

41 minutes ago, moana said:

I never said it depended on the Thai bank. Not sure what you are responding to. I simply thought that the counter withdrawal method was worth mentioning, since issuers often set a higher limit on that method than ATM withdrawals.

He may have been ref'ing my comment that policy could be different at the receiving end.  I included that only because of the note on that Visa snipped page I included earlier:  "Some merchants or networks may have limits lower than these".

 

I don't have any examples or anecdotal evidence for that though.

 

Counter w/d is great, I did that for about 2 years at my Bangkok Bank branch after the ATM fees kicked in at AEON ATMs.  Then I got lazy and started doing a single ACH transfer each month, Schwab to BB via New York.  Too easy. 

[madisongy]

On 5/11/2018 at 2:57 PM, mogandave said:

I don’t have Schwab, but the downside to my Fidelity card is that while it does refund ATM fees, and the exchange rate is good, it is picky about where it wants to work.

Not sure what rate they use, but I usually check the rate on XE, and it is spot on.

I use almost no cash in Thailand. I think the best value is to use a good no fees credit card for most everything.

Morgandave when you indicate Fidelity ATM card is spot on with the xe.com rate, are you saying it's "exact" or do you mean "close".... like 55jay mentions concerning his Schwab card?    That Schwab rate is great with me, but obviously the xe.com rate is a shade better.

 

I asked Schwab USA today if they can send the card to Bkk, and they said no problem.  (I have a Florida address for the account).   I was thinking this was my best bet, rather than doing a wire transfer to my Thai bank account since I've been hammered on exchange rates in the past.   

 

Seems to me that the first issue is what exchange rate you get, and second what fees it's going to cost you to use it.   USD accounts at BB seem too fee heavy when I checked recently............fees for USD deposits and withdrawals......and then the question of what exchange rate for wire xfer.   

 

On the other hand, getting fee free baht out of the ATM at close or same as the XE.com rates appears to be easiest and best.   I generally never have unforeseen expenses that I would not be able to use a credit card, or build up cash out of the ATM over the course of a few weeks. 

 

and just an FYI concerning credit cards..............I also use a Citi Mastercard and Chase Visa (FTF and fee free) here in Thailand.   Yesterday, I charged a few items........got 31.98 on my Mastercard at about 1:30pm, and 31.93 at 8:30pm.   Not very scientific due to the time differential, but seems fairly comparable.

[madisongy]

On 5/11/2018 at 8:16 PM, 55Jay said:

Counter w/d is great, I did that for about 2 years at my Bangkok Bank branch after the ATM fees kicked in at AEON ATMs.  Then I got lazy and started doing a single ACH transfer each month, Schwab to BB via New York.  Too easy. 

Curious about how that works 55Jay.   Are they converting the USD to Baht at BB in NY, and if so, how close to the xe.com rate?   

 

Also, saw some comments that some banks roll the 220 baht ATM fee together with the withdrawal amount.   For example, you pull out 10,000 baht, and the receipt shows you pulled out 10,220 instead of showing the 220 baht separately as a fee......which Schwab would reimburse.  Have you had any experience with that, or know which banks detail that fee out separately so there is no issue with the reimbursement?

[mogandave]

Morgandave when you indicate Fidelity ATM card is spot on with the xe.com rate, are you saying it's "exact" or do you mean "close".... like 55jay mentions concerning his Schwab card?    That Schwab rate is great with me, but obviously the xe.com rate is a shade better.

 

I asked Schwab USA today if they can send the card to Bkk, and they said no problem.  (I have a Florida address for the account).   I was thinking this was my best bet, rather than doing a wire transfer to my Thai bank account since I've been hammered on exchange rates in the past.   

 

Seems to me that the first issue is what exchange rate you get, and second what fees it's going to cost you to use it.   USD accounts at BB seem too fee heavy when I checked recently............fees for USD deposits and withdrawals......and then the question of what exchange rate for wire xfer.   

 

On the other hand, getting fee free baht out of the ATM at close or same as the XE.com rates appears to be easiest and best.   I generally never have unforeseen expenses that I would not be able to use a credit card, or build up cash out of the ATM over the course of a few weeks. 

 

and just an FYI concerning credit cards..............I also use a Citi Mastercard and Chase Visa (FTF and fee free) here in Thailand.   Yesterday, I charged a few items........got 31.98 on my Mastercard at about 1:30pm, and 31.93 at 8:30pm.   Not very scientific due to the time differential, but seems fairly comparable.

 

Not really possible to know if it is the exact XE rate or not as it changes constantly. I draw the money out, get the receipt, check the rate, write it on the back.

 

I check later on the Fidelity site to calculate.

 

Edit: I am confident it is within 1/2% one way or the other.

[mogandave]

Curious about how that works 55Jay.   Are they converting the USD to Baht at BB in NY, and if so, how close to the xe.com rate?   
 
Also, saw some comments that some banks roll the 220 baht ATM fee together with the withdrawal amount.   For example, you pull out 10,000 baht, and the receipt shows you pulled out 10,220 instead of showing the 220 baht separately as a fee......which Schwab would reimburse.  Have you had any experience with that, or know which banks detail that fee out separately so there is no issue with the reimbursement?

I can’t speak to Schwab, but with Fidelity regardless of how the fee(s) are rolled in, they reimburse the charge.

You’ll see the total withdrawal online right away, and the reimbursement a week later.

I assume this is how Schwab works as well.

The end rate is excellent, but you have to be patient.

I’ve used it in Thailand, Mexico, Malaysia, India, UAE & (I think) Saudi.

[55Jay]

38 minutes ago, madisongy said:

Curious about how that works 55Jay.   Are they converting the USD to Baht at BB in NY, and if so, how close to the xe.com rate?   

 

Also, saw some comments that some banks roll the 220 baht ATM fee together with the withdrawal amount.   For example, you pull out 10,000 baht, and the receipt shows you pulled out 10,220 instead of showing the 220 baht separately as a fee......which Schwab would reimburse.  Have you had any experience with that, or know which banks detail that fee out separately so there is no issue with the reimbursement?

I "think" so, using Bangkok Bank "T T" rate USD to Baht.  Without looking, on basic principle, I know TT will be less favorable than XE.  Then there's NY's handling/pass through fee, and (max) 250 Baht fee for their brothers back in LoS.  

 

It may not be the most penny wise method.  I just got weary about traipsing back and forth to the bank for multiple counter withdrawals and/or ATM pulls.  I just do 1 ACH transfer and I'm all set for the month.  Works for me.

 

Haven't had any direct experience with Schwab on second Q, but did when I first started using my Capital 1 account and debit/ATM card here several years ago.  They said if an ATM co-mingled fee with the withdrawal amount, and it wasn't reimbursed at the end of the month, send them an message with a copy of the receipt attached, and they would process (within monthly reimburse limit of course).

Edited May 13, 2018 by 55Jay

[madisongy]

17 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Edit: I am confident it is within 1/2% one way or the other.

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

I "think" so, using Bangkok Bank "TT" rate USD to Baht.  Without looking, on basic principle, I know TT will be less favorable than XE.  Then there's NY's handling/pass through fee, and (max) 250 Baht fee for their brothers back in LoS.  

 

Enormous thanks for the info gents.   That Schwab route seems the cheapest and most convenient for my situation.

[55Jay]

@madisongy 

 

Hadn't looked in a long time but what the heck.

 

XE shows 1 USD =31.91.... right now.

 

BB website, TT rate today is 31.73.

 

Reckon Visa and Mastercard will be somewhere between those 2.  Thereabouts.

 

[madisongy]

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

@madisongy 

 

Hadn't looked in a long time but what the heck.

 

XE shows 1 USD =31.91.... right now.

 

BB website, TT rate today is 31.73.

 

Reckon Visa and Mastercard will be somewhere between those 2.  Thereabouts.

 

Thought I saw where you had the Schwab card.   If so, what is the benefit to doing the bank transfers?

[55Jay]

Just now, madisongy said:

Thought I saw where you had the Schwab card.   If so, what is the benefit to doing the bank transfers?

I do.

 

Convenience of not going back and forth to the bank multiple times.  1 ACH transfer and I'm good to go for the month.

[55Jay]

@madisongy  I was just looking at another guy's post/question about Schwab card and Thai ATM Fees, and did a quick check on Schwab's policy for any fees that were missed, perhaps co-mingled with the w/d amount    Basically the same as what Capital 1 said.  Contact them, they'll sort it out.

 

Quote from Schwab's website:

Quote

1. Unlimited ATM fee rebates apply to cash withdrawals using your Visa debit card wherever it is accepted. ATM fee rebates do not apply to any fees other than those assessed for using an ATM to withdraw cash from your Schwab Bank account. Schwab Bank makes its best effort to identify those ATM fees eligible for rebate, based on information it receives from Visa and ATM operators. In the event that you have not received a rebate for a fee that you believe is eligible, please call a Schwab Bank Client Service Specialist for assistance at 888-403-9000. Schwab Bank reserves the right to modify or discontinue the ATM fee rebate at any time.

 

[madisongy]

Thanks much for that 55Jay.   Zero interest in paying 220b for using an ATM.  

 

I'm in a condo on Sukhumvit surrounded by banks and ATMs.....(though I'd use only a few select machines)...so this is going to work out really well.

[jerry921]

On 5/11/2018 at 2:57 AM, mogandave said:

I don’t have Schwab, but the downside to my Fidelity card is that while it does refund ATM fees, and the exchange rate is good, it is picky about where it wants to work.

Not sure what rate they use, but I usually check the rate on XE, and it is spot on.

I use almost no cash in Thailand. I think the best value is to use a good no fees credit card for most everything.

I have an IRA at fidelity, so I tried to look up and see if there was a bank account option. I found there are also other "fidelity" banks out there, so wanted to ask if yours was fidelity.com one. I found my way to info about the Fidelity Cash Management Account ATM/Debit card. And it says they refund foreign ATM fees, but it says there's a 1% foreign transaction fee that's not refunded for foreign ATM withdrawals. Do you pay that? Maybe that's applied by Visa. I don't know if I pay that with Schwab.

 

As far as it being picky, it says the fidelity card works at ATMs with "Visa^®, Plus^®, or Star^® logos", which doesn't seem too bad to me. (The Schwab card has Interlink, Plus and MoneyPass logos on the back, but may work at other places, I don't know).

[55Jay]

2 hours ago, jerry921 said:

I don't know if I pay that with Schwab

No, you don't pay a 1% foreign transaction fee with your Schwab card.