U.S. judge says Mueller should not have 'unfettered power' in Russia probe

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

A misunderstanding. From below the bold text it is a general musing aimed generally at people it applies to. Not you. The ones it apply to know who they are even if I don't. 

I think the misunderstanding stems from me disliking the other political side just as much. Most people who comment here are partisans and are blind to the people in their own party's corruption and a little too hysterical about the failings of the other party. I don't see things that way.

 

I'm a Democrat and I am very aware of the current failings of my own party and I hold it responsible for delivering us Trump. That's not a very popular view.  I wish The Democrats would have been investigated in the same manner as Trump is being investigated to get the stink of the Clintons out of it once and for all.

[roobaa01]

time to kick mueller's bump who is wasting tax payer money and is biased. trump for nobel prize.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

I think the misunderstanding stems from me disliking the other political side just as much. Most people who comment here are partisans and are blind to the people in their own party's corruption and a little too hysterical about the failings of the other party. I don't see things that way.

 

I'm a Democrat and I am very aware of the current failings of my own party and I hold it responsible for delivering us Trump. That's not a very popular view.  I wish The Democrats would have been investigated in the same manner as Trump is being investigated to get the stink of the Clintons out of it once and for all.

Partisans, yes, blind to 'own party's' mistakes, no.

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Partisans, yes, blind to 'own party's' mistakes, no.

 

I'll take you at your word that that represents your own view, but I think we'd be less than honest if we didn't think that Clinton would be defended by her faithful just as stridently as Trump is by his if the shoe were on the other foot.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I'll take you at your word that that represents your own view, but I think we'd be less than honest if we didn't think that Clinton would be defended by her faithful just as stridently as Trump is by his if the shoe were on the other foot.

Sure, but I don't think there are many Clinton supporters here.

[selftaopath]

4 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

well it is not quite as narrowly defines as you would have us believe is it.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

 

Both Manafort and Trump could be in trouble.

 

What I don't get is this, unless you are overwhelmed by some form of cultism, why would you not want to see someone go through judicial process if law enforcement consider they have committed felony crimes? Why are Trump supporters making any excuse necessary to conceal or indeed eradicate/ignore crimes that have been identified?

 

The scope of Mueller's probe is irrelevant, because IF in the process of the investigation it is found that the subject has committed felony's then those crimes cannot be ignored. We actually have right wingers, the normal sticklers for rapid, harsh justice wanting alleged crimes to be ignored because they are not part of that particular investigation. What if it is discovered that Manafort has murdered someone? Is he to be given a free pass because that is not on Rosenstein's terms of reference? And if you say "ridiculous of course we can't ignore Murder", then OK, where exactly do we draw the line with felony's and say - "ok lets ignore that"? Don't Trump supporters see what they are doing. If Trump and Manafort are guilty of ANY Felony they must answer for it the same as any other man. The fact they are scrutinised more closely by being in public life is their lookout and one that Trump should have been acutely aware of BEFORE he took office. Trump supporters are so obsessed with the SOB (Presidentially used term) that they are completely blinded. They will all only be found guilty of crime IF they have committed one, and IF they have committed one, why are supporters trying to cover that up?

AMEN. Are swamp king's defenders loyal to our country's constitution and rule of law or this pathological liar/ wanting to be dictator?

[lannarebirth]

20 minutes ago, selftaopath said:

AMEN. Are swamp king's defenders loyal to our country's constitution and rule of law or this pathological liar/ wanting to be dictator?

 

If you had as much confidence in your nation's constitution and rule of law as I do you'd know that there are no dictators allowed.

 

I must say this whole Trump presidency has given me some disturbing insights into my fellow countrymen. We instigated wars that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, many of them innocents, but losing your 242 year old democracy to a flim flam man seems a more disturbing prospect to many of you. It is mind boggling.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, riclag said:

Can you post a source for the utilities interference? 

Here’s an article on the subject from the NYT:

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

 

In the event you don’t regard the NYT as a trustworthy news source, here’s the security alert from The Department of Homeland Security:

 

https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-074A

 

Ask yourself why you are unaware of this extremely serious threat to the US economy and society?

 

[JHolmesJr]

the judge is absolutely correct....mueller is on a power trip and god knows who is pulling his strings....i guess

it isn't hard to tell.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JHolmesJr said:

the judge is absolutely correct....mueller is on a power trip and god knows who is pulling his strings....i guess

it isn't hard to tell.

And your evidence for this is?

[riclag]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Ask yourself why you are unaware of this extremely serious threat to the US economy and society?

 That US-cert link was way to long.The NYT article "By 2013, researchers had tied the Russian hackers to hundreds of attacks on energy grid and oil and gas pipeline operators in the United States and Europe. Initially, the strikes appeared to be motivated by industrial espionage — a natural conclusion at the time, researchers said, given the importance of Russia’s oil and gas industry".

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

 

I am aware of the serious threat("spearphishing"). that's been going on for at least a decade.But the left narrative is to  totally blame PT .What my concern is why wasn't it taken care of before,especially with reports of a intense increase in activity in March 2016 during the past Admin!!!!!  Obama said to Putin "Cut it out",hardly a slap .

"The DHS and FBI are characterizing it as a Russian attack, noting that this was a multiyear campaign started in March 2016 by Russian government “cyber actors.” "Sanctioning officials involved in authorizing attacks certainly punishes those involved. But it’s worth noting that more than a third of the individuals named in these latest sanctions had already been sanctioned by the US — and that apparently didn’t stop them from carrying out these new attacks. Which means that the deterrence or retaliatory effect of sanctions alone may not be as great as perhaps desired".The article by Vox,(I never thought I be using VOX),says the cyberattacks  don't fall under sabotage or war so its a grey area on how to  respond . The solution other than what American's have been doing  for years is using multi factor authentication .

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/28/17170612/russia-hacking-us-power-grid-nuclear-plants

 

The emerging timeline of Obama and Russia that is giving Democrats ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../even-democrats-wanted-obama-to-speak-out-much-...

Jun 23, 2017 - President Obama knew about Russian meddling in August. Democrats wanted him to speak out much sooner than he did.

Edited May 6, 2018 by riclag

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, riclag said:

 That US-cert link was way to long.The NYT article "By 2013, researchers had tied the Russian hackers to hundreds of attacks on energy grid and oil and gas pipeline operators in the United States and Europe. Initially, the strikes appeared to be motivated by industrial espionage — a natural conclusion at the time, researchers said, given the importance of Russia’s oil and gas industry".

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/15/us/politics/russia-cyberattacks.html

 

I am aware of the serious threat(" spearphishing"). that's been going on for at least a decade.But the left narrative is to  totally blame PT .What my concern is why wasn't it taken care of before,especially with reports of a intense increase in activity in March 2016 during the past Admin!!!!!  Obama said to Putin "Cut it out",hardly a slap .

"The DHS and FBI are characterizing it as a Russian attack, noting that this was a multiyear campaign started in March 2016 by Russian government “cyber actors.” "Sanctioning officials involved in authorizing attacks certainly punishes those involved. But it’s worth noting that more than a third of the individuals named in these latest sanctions had already been sanctioned by the US — and that apparently didn’t stop them from carrying out these new attacks. Which means that the deterrence or retaliatory effect of sanctions alone may not be as great as perhaps desired".The article by Vox,(I never thought I be using VOX),says the cyberattacks  don't fall under sabotage or war so its a grey area on how to  respond . The solution other than what American's have been doing  for years is using multi factor authentication .

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/28/17170612/russia-hacking-us-power-grid-nuclear-plants

 

The emerging timeline of Obama and Russia that is giving Democrats ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../even-democrats-wanted-obama-to-speak-out-much-...

Jun 23, 2017 - President Obama knew about Russian meddling in August. Democrats wanted him to speak out much sooner than he did.

The US Cert link is long because it provides the information necessay for US companies to take measures against a Cyber attack.

 

“The National Cybersecurity and Communications Integration Center (NCCIC) is the Nation’s flagship cyber defense, incident response, and operational integration center. Our mission is to reduce the Nation’s risk of systemic cybersecurity and communications challenges.”

 

The depth and nature of Russia’s cyber attack on the US (ie serious threat to critical infrastructure, rather than espionage) was not apparent until 2018.

 

It was the Russian attack on the election that prompted US-Cert to examine other Russian cyber attack activity.

 

This is happening on Trump’s watch, the US-Cert alert was published during his presidency.

 

The US-Cert alert is the public announcement, the President absolutely will have been briefed on the cyber attack and it’s threat to the US.

 

Trump has failed to take any action in respons to these attacks.

[riclag]

On 5/6/2018 at 7:19 AM, riclag said:

 

I didn't realize until recently that Rosenstien  added more to the original memo(the scope of the investigation) ,which is highly redacted .Why was Mueller's team so adamant about not giving the judge a unredacted copy . What is he hiding? The original wasn't redacted. Now how suspicious is this ! By putting  redaction's on it and making it look like intel.

 

"Ellis also complained that the bulk of that August memo he received was highly redacted. He told Mueller’s office to take two weeks to consult with U.S. intelligence agencies to see whether they would sign off so that he can personally review a sealed, unredacted version of the memo".

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/u-s-judge-says-mueller-should-not-have-unfettered-power-in-russia-probe-idUSKBN1I51WE

Edited May 7, 2018 by riclag

[attrayant]

15 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

the judge is absolutely correct....mueller is on a power trip

 

The judge will not use this line of reasoning in his decision.  If he does, he will be reversed.  As I posted in another discussion that veered into this sidebar :

 

The judge questioned the prosecutor's methods, and accused them of using Manafort to get to Trump.  To which my response is - yeah, so?  That's what prosecutors do almost every single day.

 

"Legal experts and former Justice Department prosecutors immediately raised questions about [the judge's] comments. "The operative question here is whether Manafort committed the crimes he's accused of and whether Mueller had the authority to charge them," said Jeffrey Cramer, a longtime former federal prosecutor who spent 12 years at the Justice Department. "Whether prosecutors brought the case to flip Manafort is entirely irrelevant." Cramer added, moreover, that it's "hardly shocking" when prosecutors charge defendants to gain their cooperation against bigger fish."

 

The analysis goes on to say that's what prosecutors commonly do - they ensnare low-level flunkies to get to the crime bosses. That's a prosecutor's job.

[riclag]

 “The 13 Angry Democrats in charge of the Russian Witch Hunt are starting to find out that there is a Court System in place that actually protects people from injustice...and just wait ’till the Courts get to see your unrevealed Conflicts of Interest!”

 

Trump applauded Friday when a federal judge questioned Mueller’s authority in a case against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort.

https://apnews.com/25fe172f8087421393ce2895a600f3b1/Trump:-'13-angry-Democrats'-on-Mueller-team-should-be-wary

Me thinks he has some ,only for his eyes only, intel

Edited May 7, 2018 by riclag

[riclag]

I didn't know there was a previous investigation in 2014 of Manafort.It makes sense to throw it out only if Rosenstein doesn't produced the new revised memo that describes the scope of the investigation which 75% is redacted. Oh ! These redaction's ,how they are hiding the truth! I would of used another source but I could't find one with the judge quotes.

 

"The special counsel argues that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein granted them broad authority in his May 2017 letter appointing Mueller to this investigation. But after the revelation that the team is using information from the earlier DOJ probe, Ellis said that information did not “arise” out of the special counsel probe – and therefore may not be within the scope of that investigation".

“We don’t want anyone with "unfettered power,” he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/04/federal-judge-accuses-muellers-team-lying-trying-to-target-trump-cmon-man.html

Edited May 8, 2018 by riclag

[attrayant]

Prosecutors said they would have referred the Manafort matter out to another federal district (as they did with the Cohen raid) if the matter were unrelated to Trump/Russia/collusion matter.

They didn’t refer it out, so what does that tell you?

[selftaopath]

On 5/7/2018 at 6:55 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

The US Cert link is long because it provides the information necessay for US companies to take measures against a Cyber attack.

 

“The National Cybersecurity and Communications Integration Center (NCCIC) is the Nation’s flagship cyber defense, incident response, and operational integration center. Our mission is to reduce the Nation’s risk of systemic cybersecurity and communications challenges.”

 

The depth and nature of Russia’s cyber attack on the US (ie serious threat to critical infrastructure, rather than espionage) was not apparent until 2018.

 

It was the Russian attack on the election that prompted US-Cert to examine other Russian cyber attack activity.

 

This is happening on Trump’s watch, the US-Cert alert was published during his presidency.

 

The US-Cert alert is the public announcement, the President absolutely will have been briefed on the cyber attack and it’s threat to the US.

 

Trump has failed to take any action in respons to these attacks.

Thus he has not honored his oath to protect our constitution from all enemies and treats - from within and without. He is as much of a threat to our country as Russia. Maybe more. I'm going to have one hell of a parade when he's gone.

 

Can I send cheeseburgers to the WH for him?

[riclag]

34:10 -34:30 of the video below has Judge Napolitano telling fox and friends on 5/8/18. In 2014 ,Manafort was being investigated by the FBI for the same crimes but found no evidence and was exonerated by Rod Rosenstein.

Release that new edited redacted memo with the scope of the investigation,Rosenstein is shooting from the hip with unfettered power,he'll be a witness in Manafort trial..

Huh, The only mention of this in a google search is that 2014 the case was dropped for lack of evidence.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

34:10 -34:30 of the video below has Judge Napolitano telling fox and friends on 5/8/18. In 2014 ,Manafort was being investigated by the FBI for the same crimes but found no evidence and was exonerated by Rod Rosenstein.

Release that new edited redacted memo with the scope of the investigation,Rosenstein is shooting from the hip with unfettered power,he'll be a witness in Manafort trial..

Huh, The only mention of this in a google search is that 2014 the case was dropped for lack of evidence.

 

Fox and friends.

 

We’ve moved into the realms of farce already.

[attrayant]

7 hours ago, riclag said:

In 2014, Manafort was being investigated by the FBI for the same crimes but found no evidence and was exonerated by Rod Rosenstein.

 

He was being investigated for work done by a group of Washington consulting firms for Ukraine's former ruling party, according to CNN. 

 

Is that the same thing he's being investigated for now?

 

Quote

Huh, The only mention of this in a google search is that 2014 the case was dropped for lack of evidence.

 

Then how do you know he was exonerated?  Because "Judge Jeannie" said so? 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by attrayant