SETV from Phenom Phen?

[sbaker8688]

I'd like to go visit a friend in Cambodia, and then go to Thailand on a SETV.  But I've recently read on these forums that 1) not only do they deny a lot of people in PP if they have 'too many' Thai visas in their passport, but 2) you need a plane ticket back to your home country after the (60? 90?) days of the SETV is finished.

 

As to 1, I have a lot of Thai visas in my passport.  As to 2, I wanted to go to Laos after the SETV was finished, and get another Thai SETV.  What do?

 

I could easily get the Thai SETV in the USA before going to Cambodia.  The problem is, I think the SETV starts 'counting down' after you get it.  Can someone confirm or deny this?  Also, assuming I got the SETV in the USA beforehand, is it possible to have two visas in your passport at the same time - one going to Cambodia, and the other going to Thailand?

[BuckBee]

The setv will likely have an enter before date that runs for 90 days from date of issue, you enter thailand any time before this date and you granted 60days stay from date you actually entered at the immigration point .

You can have 2 visas in your passport for different countries at one time, I done this several times .

 

[sbaker8688]

Interesting.  I just looked at my passport, and my previous visas have a 'valid from... to' date, but not an enter before date.  I think the valid from-to date is the total time the visa is valid, i.e. for a SETV, 60 days.

[ubonjoe]

36 minutes ago, sbaker8688 said:

Interesting.  I just looked at my passport, and my previous visas have a 'valid from... to' date, but not an enter before date.  I think the valid from-to date is the total time the visa is valid, i.e. for a SETV, 60 days.

Most visa stickers for Thailand have a enter before date on them on the left near the bottom of the sicker. The newer ones have a valid until date on them.

A single entry tourist visa is valid for 3 months from the date of issue.

Old sticker

 

New sticker

 

[sbaker8688]

So what exactly is the valid from-until?  Is it sort of like the enter-before?  Or is it the actual visa time counting down, meaning if you entered in Dec on the visa above, you'd just have until Feb for visa expiration?  I assume it's the latter.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, sbaker8688 said:

So what exactly is the valid from-until?  Is it sort of like the enter-before?

That is the 3 months you can use the visa to get a 60 day entry. The valid until date is the same as a enter before date.

If you entered the country on the valid until or enter before date you would still get a entry stamp with a admitted until date 60 days from the date you entered.

If you plan on entering Thailand before going to Cambodia you could get a single re-entry permit (1000 baht) that would keep the remainder of the 60 days valid when you return.

[sbaker8688]

Good info.  I can get the Thai SETV before going to Cambodia.  Thanks.

[onera1961]

2 hours ago, sbaker8688 said:

So what exactly is the valid from-until?  Is it sort of like the enter-before?

I wonder why so much confusion for a simple concept. A visa is a document to seek permission to enter a country at a port of entry. In the above example, Valid UNTIL is 23 Feb 2018. That means you can go to any Thailand's port entry on or before 23 Feb 2018 and seek permission to enter the country . After 23 Feb 2018, you cant use the visa to seek permission to enter the country.

The second part is permission to stay in a country until a specified number of days or a date. This information is stamped in the passport. For Thailand with a tourist visa, it is 60-days. So, if you present your visa on 23 Feb 2018 at a Thai port of entry, you will be allowed to stay in Thailand till 22 April 2018.

Edited May 12, 2018 by onera1961

[sbaker8688]

16 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I wonder why so much confusion for a simple concept.

Because it is ambiguous.  The go-to interpretation for most people I know (including me) was that "valid from-until" pertained to the validity of the VISA ITSELF, i.e. the VISA ITSELF was valid from whenever to whenever.  Since it always pays to be pessimistic rather than optimistic, that was also the more pessimistic interpretation.

 

The old way wasn't ambiguous or confusing.  Everybody pretty much knew what 'enter before' meant.

Edited May 13, 2018 by sbaker8688

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, sbaker8688 said:

Everybody pretty much knew what 'enter before' meant.

Close, though people often did not know its exact meaning which was 'enter on or before'. I agree it worked better in practice, but it was not totally accurate English for what was intended.

[onera1961]

4 hours ago, sbaker8688 said:

Because it is ambiguous.  The go-to interpretation for most people I know (including me) was that "valid from-until" pertained to the validity of the VISA ITSELF, i.e. the VISA ITSELF was valid from whenever to whenever.  Since it always pays to be pessimistic rather than optimistic, that was also the more pessimistic interpretation.

Not sure what is the confusion about Valid From (a date) and Valid Until (a date) unless someone has nor grasped the meaning of a visa. All visas have a Valid Until date. They may call it expiration date (like in a US visa) or Enter before date. Whatever they call it (expiration date, valid until or enter before), you must present yourself to an IO at the port of entry to seek permission to enter the country on or before that date.

[sbaker8688]

It was already explained what the confusion was.  Valid-from / valid-until doesn't tell you exactly what the thing is that is valid.  It's ambiguous.  Most presume it is the visa itself that is being referenced here.  In which case the visa is counting down right away, and you are losing time every day you aren't in Thailand.  Others have pointed out that it is really a 'enter on or before.'  In which case, they should say it that way if that's what they mean.  As it stands, it generates confusion.

[onera1961]

4 minutes ago, sbaker8688 said:

Valid-from / valid-until doesn't tell you exactly what the thing is that is valid.  It's ambiguous.

Yes, it is the visa that is valid until date xxxxx. That means you can present yourself to an IO and seek permission to enter the country on or before date xxxxx. Still can't comprehend where is the confusion. All visas throughout the world count down right away, and you are losing time every day you aren't in using the visa to enter the country. How about expiration date? Is it less confusing? That's what US visas use. Not sure about UK and Shenzhen visas

[sbaker8688]

Then you are refuting what was said by those who chimed-in before you.

[onera1961]

7 minutes ago, sbaker8688 said:

Then you are refuting what was said by those who chimed-in before you.

UK/Shenzhen Visas say From date Until date. May be they copied wordings from them. They should have copied American visa which says expiration date. Still I don't find any confusion in the wordings. All are the same.

[sbaker8688]

A 'visa expiration' or 'good until ' or 'countdown' is one thing.  An 'enter before' is another thing entirely.  These are two different things, and two different concepts.  The confusion is over what it actually is - either a 'visa expiration' or an 'enter before.'  Those who chimed-in before you said it is an 'enter before.'  You seem to be stating it is a 'visa expiration.'

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, sbaker8688 said:

Then you are refuting what was said by those who chimed-in before you.

Do you mean this line from his post?

15 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

All visas throughout the world count down right away, and you are losing time every day you aren't in using the visa to enter the country.

I think it is a little confusing the way he wrote it. I don't think he meant you lose any days that you can be in the country. With a single entry visa you lose no days you can be in the country. For a multiple entry visa you would lose some of the total stay you can get from the visa.

 

[sbaker8688]

I agree there is a lot of confusion, and that what he has written is itself confusing.  He on the other hand is arguing that there is no confusion.

 

EDIT:  I think he thinks that there is no difference between the concepts of an 'enter before' and a 'visa expiration.'  But there is a difference between those two concepts.  If my visa expires while I'm in Thailand, I have to leave the country.  But if an 'enter before' expires before I get to Thailand, I cannot enter Thailand in the first place.  These concepts are apples and oranges.  Also, if those dates represent a 'visa countdown,' then you lose days that you can be in the country.  But you are saying (and I believe you) that you lose no such days, therefore there is no 'visa countdown,' it's an 'enter before' that has misleading wording.

Edited May 13, 2018 by sbaker8688

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, sbaker8688 said:

I think he thinks that there is no difference between the concepts of an 'enter before' and a 'visa expiration.'  But there is a difference between those two concepts.  If my visa expires while I'm in Thailand, I have to leave the country.  But if an 'enter before' expires before I get to Thailand, I cannot enter Thailand in the first place.

The problem is bringing in other countries wording that is used on visas.

For Thailand enter before and valid until is equal to the visas expiration date. The visa cannot be used for entry after that date to the get allowed permit to stay.

For some countries the visas expiration date is the last day you can stay in the country. When you enter the country you are stamped in until the date the visa expires.

[onera1961]

27 minutes ago, sbaker8688 said:

If my visa expires while I'm in Thailand, I have to leave the country.

Absolutely not true. May be that is the confusion you have. I am not sure anywhere in the world, you have to leave the country if visa expires while you're inside the country. You have to leave the country when your permission to stay will expire. May be the confusion comes because people are yet to grasp the concept of visa expiration date and permission to stay date.

Take a simple example of US visa that are frequently valid for 10 years multiple entries (expiration date 10 years from the date of issue). However, each time you enter the US, you will be stamped how long you can stay in the US. Even if the visa is still valid, you have to leave the US on or before your permission to stay date.

Similarly, when you Enter Thailand before the visa expiration date, your visa may expire when you're inside the country but you are able to stay in Thailand based on your permission to stay date (not visa expiration date).

 

Again, visa expiration date and permission to stay date are different. The date may be the same for some countries. But the concepts are always different for every country

Edited May 13, 2018 by onera1961

[sbaker8688]

I have never heard the term 'visa' in the context you use it ('permission to enter' or whatever).  It's always been in the context of what you call 'permission to stay.'  People always say 'my visa is up - time to go make a visa run' or whatever.  What they mean is, their what you call 'permission to stay' has expired.

 

In newspaper articles, it is the same.  For instance I just read this (below).  It talks about revoking the visa for this pimp.  In my interpretation of 'visa,' that means revoking his what you call 'permission to stay.'  But in your interpretation, you think the guy would still be allowed to stay in Thailand if his visa is revoked, which is clearly not the case.

 

Maybe this is just American terminology.  I have no idea what nationality you are, so maybe it's different there.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

31 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I am not sure anywhere in the world, you have to leave the country if visa expires while you're inside the country. You have to leave the country when your permission to stay will expire.

Yes there are countries where you have to leave when the visa expires. I have had some that were like that since the permit to stay date is the same as the visas expiration date. Those that I had allowed unlimited entries up to the date the visa expired so it was up to the person using it to be sure it would allow enough time for you planned on staying.

[nrasmussen]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes there are countries where you have to leave when the visa expires. I have had some that were like that since the permit to stay date is the same as the visas expiration date. Those that I had allowed unlimited entries up to the date the visa expired so it was up to the person using it to be sure it would allow enough time for you planned on staying.

Yes, that's how, for example, Schengen visas work.

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, sbaker8688 said:

I have never heard the term 'visa' in the context you use it ('permission to enter' or whatever).  It's always been in the context of what you call 'permission to stay.'  People always say 'my visa is up - time to go make a visa run' or whatever.  What they mean is, their what you call 'permission to stay' has expired.

Correct and that causes a lot of confusion on this forum. I often have to ask what some posters really have when they call their permission to stay a visa.

[sbaker8688]

Check out the newspaper article - they use the term the same way.  And so do all the other newspaper articles I read.  Not saying you are wrong, btw.  Just saying, I've only ever heard the term used in that one context.

Edited May 13, 2018 by sbaker8688

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, sbaker8688 said:

Check out the newspaper article - they use the term the same way.  And so do all the other newspaper articles I read.  Not saying you are wrong, btw.  Just saying, I've only ever heard the term used in that one context.

I know it is not correctly used in the news some websites and etc.

It gets confusing on this forum because there is a big difference between the two especially with it comes to extension of a permit to stay.