Thai girlfriend first visitor visa refused - help needed addressing refusal points!

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

The money is not priority no 1 for immigration. Yes you need to show how she is going to be supported, by proving proof of income from you, bank statements, pension, and have some funds of her own etc, however,  more importantly, you have to convince the people at immigration that she is going to return to Thailand.

Agree, that is the key point – returning to Thailand – when applying for Visa to Europe, both Britain and Schengen.

 

OP, it's fairly easy to do the Visa application yourself, if you follow the instructions from the embassy. My girlfriend got four Schengen Visas, and one for Britain (I'm Danish national), and we did everything yourself – Britain (as tourist) was by the way a much easier process than Schengen (continental Europe).

 

My experience is – apart from a good invitation letter and proof of host's financial situation, and space in home, and a return ticket and health insurance; the latter might only be necessary to present when a Visa has been granted – to show that your girlfriend:

1) Intend to return to Thailand, because she has work or family to care for.

2) That your girlfriend has (direct) acces to a reasonable amount of money of her own, this in case of she for example need to return on her own, i.e. her invitation sponsor's support cease.

3) Prove the relationship is real, and has lasted over a certain length of time, with for example photos together, tickets from (domestic) travelling together, etc.

 

Wish you good luck...

[bobrussell]

The thread is wandering!

First point is that it appears 'padding' of the bank account is happening. 

To be successful (and in simple terms) an applicant must show a reason for the visit, affordability of the visit and that on the balance of probabilities they will return in compliance with the visa.

 

An ECO will want to know where the money is coming from. There is no mechanism for a sponsor to be held responsible for a visitor failing to comply with their visa requirements.

 

A padded bank account rings a lot of warning bells that the visitor may not be legitimate. Any money could be withdrawn at any stage after the visa has been issued. 

Once the damage is done, it can be tricky to undo it. A full detailed explanation of where the money has come from may help.

 

Reasons to return can be tricky but employment, property etc can help here but again, money in and money out has to be explained. If employed then a letter confirming permission to take the time off is essential. If the time off is long then it may be difficult to convince the ECO. It is likely that the employer will be contacted for confirmation.

 

I would agree that getting a UK visitor visa is not that complicated but you do have to be able to tick the right boxes. 

 

Sadly the agent appears to have triggered warning bells so further applications are likely to be scrutinised thoroughly. 

 

[bobrussell]

Turbo boosting mainly because much of the advice is duff for a UK visa.

 

You are specifically warned not to buy a ticket in advance so it will not help one jot.

Do not send photos as they specifically tell you not too. A few at the back of the application will do no harm but for a number of years UKVI have told applicants not to send photographs. 

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, bobrussell said:

The thread is wandering!

 

Yes it is, whilst relevant answers are always welcome, would posters please confine their comments in respect of the actual question asked, which was how to specifically address the refusal of a Visit Visa for the OP's girlfriend.As I mentioned much earlier, it would be helpful if the OP would post the refusal notice, suitably redacted.

[rasg]

This thread has been to Oz, the US and all over the place and back again.

 

I have seen the refusal notice as the OP posted it on another forum.

 

The Thai "visa" company gave the usual wrong advice and asked the applicant to have 80,000 baht put into her account just before the application.

 

The applicant stated in her application that she would spend around 100,000 THB on various things on the trip.

 

My suggestion was to dump the visa company and the OP to do it himself and to tell the truth. Haven't got as far as the reason to return yet as so far it's been all about the money.

 

Can anybody who has contributed out there can explain why we have to have anything we rely on for a visa application translated from Thai to English?

 

It is because Brits in the Embassy are those currently making the decisions. Maybe when they transfer to India in June, we will have to have everything translated to Hindi...

 

 

 

 

[DUNROAMIN]

16 hours ago, thonglorjimmy said:

Would you be good enough to fill us in on the facts regarding your experience, did you work for the UKVI at the British Embassy?

I always understood that the ECO's were either locally employed Brit's or a few other nationalities, like Australia, or UKVI staff on secondment from the UK, is that not the case? You seem to imply, no you actually claim, that the ECO's are all Thai and that the English staff take no part in the decision making process - are you sure about that?

Hi, sorry for the confusion, I should have clarified that I was talking about my experience with the Australian Embassy, which I have found this info to be correct via a source within the Australian Immigration system. I know that the immigration officers who process the applicants are Thai. The Australian immigration officers only become involved when there are disputes with the applications. The Australian Embassy here is obligated as many Embassies and large corporate companies from off shore to employ Thai citizens (Bi-lateral agreement) . I have applied many times for my wife to travel with me to Australia and sometimes we have problems with the application, due to misunderstanding of written English and we have to correspond to the Embassy and ask for an Australian immigration officer to help with the process of the application.

As for your English Embassy they may have a different staffing situation and process, however, if you think about, it would make sense for Thais to assist with the applications as they would know their fellow citizens better than anybody else, especially when it comes to people trying to gain access to your country and then do a runner.

My thoughts, take it or leave it, Cheers.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Hi, sorry for the confusion, I should have clarified that I was talking about my experience with the Australian Embassy...................

.................My thoughts, take it or leave it, Cheers.

 

As your comments have zero relevance to the UK visa application process, I strongly suggest the OP, and anyone else looking for advice on a UK visa application, leaves it!

 

Yes, British (not English!) embassies do employ local staff in a variety of positions, as do the UKVI visa sections stationed in those embassies; but at most as clerical staff not as entry clearance officers. The closest a Thai member of staff would get to decision making is acting as a translator during an interview.

 

As rasg has already said, the processing of UK visit visa applications submitted in Thailand and other Asian countries will soon be transferred to a central hub in India. The processing of settlement visa applications made worldwide has already been transferred to the UK.

 

I don't comment or advise on Australian visas because I know f-all about the Australian rules and processes; I suggest you do the same about UK visas for the same reason!

[johng]

I thought (and have read on here) that if the sponsor shows that he has sufficient funds to support the applicants trip than that will suffice? Isn't that the whole point of the sponsor, to show that he can fund the trip? Have even read that if this is the case the applicant doesn't even have to show any funds at all, so doing, this in good faith,  may have well backfired on her?
 
This is clearly a very grey area.

On all 3 of my wifes uk visa application's I said I would be paying for everything..submitted my bank statements...never hers.

[rasg]

On 5/14/2018 at 4:13 AM, Pat in Pattaya said:

thought (and have read on here) that if the sponsor shows that he has sufficient funds to support the applicants trip than that will suffice? Isn't that the whole point of the sponsor, to show that he can fund the trip? Have even read that if this is the case the applicant doesn't even have to show any funds at all, so doing, this in good faith,  may have well backfired on her?

Very true if there is a sponsor involved. Thousands of Thai people get UK visit visa all on their own to come here for a holiday.

 

Those that use a sponsor can 100% rely on the funds that a sponsor provides. IMHO it simply muddies the waters by supplying an applicant's financial information. I have read numerous posts where a Thai has insisted that an applicant needs anything up to 100,000 baht in their account before applying for a visit visa.

 

The OP has proved like so many that it is definitely not the case.

[bobrussell]

Clearly this is a case of poor advice being followed. A relatively straight forward application has been complicated and the only way to undo the damage is to be completely honest and produce a well thought out application that not only ticks the important boxes but also deals with the rejection grounds for this application. 

My advice ,for what it is worth , is to look at a fresh application covering the visa requirements properly and hope the ECO will accept that the applicant followed duff advice this time. Cover reasons for visit, affordability (where is all the money coming from) and try to build reasons to return. An apologetic tone might help convince the ECO that this was a genuine application and the fault was partly the agents.

It does not mean a future application will automatically fail but it does make it harder to achieve.

 

The forum sponsor has a good reputation and is registered if you feel more support is required. 

[Jip99]

On 14/05/2018 at 5:13 AM, Pat in Pattaya said:

I thought (and have read on here) that if the sponsor shows that he has sufficient funds to support the applicants trip than that will suffice? Isn't that the whole point of the sponsor, to show that he can fund the trip? Have even read that if this is the case the applicant doesn't even have to show any funds at all, so doing, this in good faith,  may have well backfired on her?

 

This is clearly a very grey area.

 

 

It only becomes a grey area if you muddy the waters.

 

 

[fanjita]

Now all the nonsense posts seem to have abated and decent advice has now been provided, I would like to offer the OP some alternative food for thought.

 

Rather than throwing good money after bad, the OP might want to consider dispensing with a further visit visa application altogether.  If you both want to be together and are seriously considering marriage and subsequently living in the UK then it might be wise to apply for the aforementioned fiancée visa.  The only risk being that she subsequently hates life in the UK and you've paid a not insubstantial sum to find this out.

 

If you want to be really adventurous then just go for settlement.  If it all works out then you've made a further substantial saving over the fiancée route.   

 

Probably time to slow down and think long and hard before your next move.  I hope this helps.

[Pat in Pattaya]

Jipp, john, rasg - Yep, exactly as I thought. There is a lot of mis-information on here which really isn't good.

[rasg]

They probably got bored with the "what do you like about Thai girls" or "should it be compulsory to have travel insurance" thread.

 

Not only does it muddy the waters supplying an applicant's bank statements when they are really not needed, it gives an ECO a reason to call the applicant if there is any anomaly, So many applicants get tied up in knots when they are questioned. I've read about it so many times. On one occasion on here, a sponsor was complaining that he had no idea that his girlfriend might get called. She didn't have much of an idea of the information that had been used in her application.

 

I've said it before but If you put a good, solid application together, the ECO has no reason to call.

[7by7]

9 hours ago, rasg said:

Very true if there is a sponsor involved. Thousands of Thai people get UK visit visa all on their own to come here for a holiday.

 

Indeed, and of those who do have a sponsor, that sponsor does not always contribute financially towards the trip!

 

Sponsor has several meanings, but as far as a UK visa application is concerned these are reduced to two.

 

The first is a friend or relative of the applicant who is contributing towards the cost of the trip, either in whole or in part. These sponsors usually sponsor under the second meaning as well, but not always.

 

The second is a person who is supporting the application, but not actually contributing towards the cost. In most cases this is the person(s) the applicant is visiting in the UK, and often staying with. As an example, my step son and his wife visited us last summer. We sponsored them in this second sense, but not the first as they paid for their trip themselves.

 

As far as the finances for the visit are concerned, these can come from 

• the applicant,
• the sponsor if there is one,
• a third party or parties,
• any combination of these.

Anyone who is contributing towards the costs needs to provide evidence that they have the available funds to so do and if a third party I recommend a brief letter explaining who they are and why they are contributing.

 

'Padding' an applicants account is not necessary, due to the above. However, a third party such as a parent, or even a sponsor, may wish to transfer money into the applicant's account for a perfectly legitimate reason; so they can purchase flight tickets or to give them some spending money etc. This is acceptable, provided the applicant explains where the money came from and what it is for. If this is done, I'd recommend some documentary evidence of the source of the funds as well, such as the donors bank statement showing the money leaving and the applicant's bank statement showing it arriving.

 

[7by7]

I said to one Australian

11 hours ago, 7by7 said:

I don't comment or advise on Australian visas because I know f-all about the Australian rules and processes; I suggest you do the same about UK visas for the same reason!

before I'd actually read the whole topic.

 

Having now done so, it is obvious that the person I addressed is not the only Australian who needs to be told this.

 

Why they have hijacked this topic in order to post their totally incorrect information, only they know.

 

@cfrsh91, I can only apologise on behalf of those of us who genuinely wish to help for their antics.

 

If you have not received the advice you need from rasg or on that other forum, please ask any further questions you may have. Also, as theoldgit says, posting the actual refusal notice, with all names etc. removed, will help. Usually the ECO will give their reasons for reaching the conclusions they did, and knowing these can help enormously.

 

[DUNROAMIN]

19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

As your comments have zero relevance to the UK visa application process, I strongly suggest the OP, and anyone else looking for advice on a UK visa application, leaves it!

 

Yes, British (not English!) embassies do employ local staff in a variety of positions, as do the UKVI visa sections stationed in those embassies; but at most as clerical staff not as entry clearance officers. The closest a Thai member of staff would get to decision making is acting as a translator during an interview.

 

As rasg has already said, the processing of UK visit visa applications submitted in Thailand and other Asian countries will soon be transferred to a central hub in India. The processing of settlement visa applications made worldwide has already been transferred to the UK.

 

I don't comment or advise on Australian visas because I know f-all about the Australian rules and processes; I suggest you do the same about UK visas for the same reason!

Point taken have a nice day.

[superal]

On 5/14/2018 at 7:39 PM, fordguy61mi said:

I live in the US and thoroughly researched this subject before deciding my then fiancé wasn’t going to get a tourist visa so I didn’t even have her apply. I didn’t want her to have  any visa rejections on her record when we went for the K1. I found that very few Thais get approved for tourist visas because simply put, a lot of them never return. They’ve screwed it up for everyone. You have to have strong evidence that you’ll return in order to get one. Her friend did get one and she has a good job as a nurse at a major hospital. My girl was only a waitress so she didn’t have much of a chance I reckoned. She also had 2 friends that were rejected for a tourist visa. You can’t “sponsor” someone, they have to be able to support the trip themselves. In fact, if they think they’re going to see a boyfriend they’ll reject them based on that. They figure they’ll get married while there and skirt around the visa rules and fees that go with it. It does happen, people do get tourist visas to the US and the UK, but from what I’ve read it’s hard to get one. I ended up going there 5 times in one year to visit her. We had our K1 visa approved and she’s now my wife. Good luck to you.

How true your statement is .

  When it comes to a genuine UK citizen applying for a tourist visa for his Thai girlfriend the pa-lava that he has to go through is ridiculous  ( I know as I have had the same experience of rejection for my girlfriend and without justification )  . My application complied with all of your requirements above but was rejected as they were not convinced that she would return to Thailand despite having her own business and house & supported her parents . I was told that the best way is to use an agency who specialize in visa apps and guarantee 100% success , just got to go with the flow of this corrupt country .  

[Pat in Pattaya]

Question - If you plan not to include the applicants finances (no water muddying) but she has a job, all be it a commission only job for a large clothing company, it that worth mentioning or could it open a can of worms?

 

I'm thinking if she has a job and can show letter from employer it may help to erase the 'she may not return to Thailand' thingy that these ECO's seem obsessed with..

 

Btw, we are married with kids etc and she has been to the UK before in 2011, but I want to make sure I do this right as would be distraught if we can't all go back later this year as planned...

[Pat in Pattaya]

15 minutes ago, superal said:

How true your statement is .

  When it comes to a genuine UK citizen applying for a tourist visa for his Thai girlfriend the pa-lava that he has to go through is ridiculous  ( I know as I have had the same experience of rejection for my girlfriend and without justification )  . My application complied with all of your requirements above but was rejected as they were not convinced that she would return to Thailand despite having her own business and house & supported her parents . I was told that the best way is to use an agency who specialize in visa apps and guarantee 100% success , just got to go with the flow of this corrupt country .  

Feel for you mate...it really is completely ridiculous what you have to provide, completely insane in fact. As I said above the 'will she return to Thailand' thing is a huge problem.

 

I am applying for a tourist visa soon for her and even though she's been before, we are married with kids etc I'm getting a bad feeling that she will get knocked backed and I've taken a punt and paid for flight tickets already..

[superal]

32 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Feel for you mate...it really is completely ridiculous what you have to provide, completely insane in fact. As I said above the 'will she return to Thailand' thing is a huge problem.

 

I am applying for a tourist visa soon for her and even though she's been before, we are married with kids etc I'm getting a bad feeling that she will get knocked backed and I've taken a punt and paid for flight tickets already..

Good luck with that Pat cos I know of married couples who visited the UK every 2 years , being refused a visa on the third app when the application was a complete repeat of previous successful applications .

 No logic can be applied as another guy I know was successful , with his girlfriend of 3 months who had no money , job or assets and was granted a tourist visa by way of an agency . 

Fingers crossed pal 

[Pat in Pattaya]

16 minutes ago, superal said:

Good luck with that Pat cos I know of married couples who visited the UK every 2 years , being refused a visa on the third app when the application was a complete repeat of previous successful applications .

 No logic can be applied as another guy I know was successful , with his girlfriend of 3 months who had no money , job or assets and was granted a tourist visa by way of an agency . 

Fingers crossed pal 

Yes mate it's a lottery...I'm going to take my time and do it properly but if it's not to be then so be it...it's a massive battle just to to go to England for a few weeks just to feel cold and get rained on and being told what not to do all the while..

[superal]

37 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Yes mate it's a lottery...I'm going to take my time and do it properly but if it's not to be then so be it...it's a massive battle just to to go to England for a few weeks just to feel cold and get rained on and being told what not to do all the while..

Please let us know of the outcome 

[David Walden]

I think you have missed the point.  You can should look for a corrupt legal firm and grease the palms?  All will fall into place.

[Pat in Pattaya]

34 minutes ago, superal said:

Please let us know of the outcome 

 

Can if you want but it won't be for another  month or so as not planning to go until end sept

[superal]

8 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

 

Can if you want but it won't be for another  month or so as not planning to go until end sept

Thats OK & good luck but you know what ? I read other posters here who like to write of their successful apps which they wrote themselves . Maybe they should be given the opportunity to oversee your visa app but I think no takers . Once again fingers crossed & good luck .

[7by7]

2 hours ago, David Walden said:

I think you have missed the point.  You can should look for a corrupt legal firm and grease the palms?  All will fall into place.

 

Rubbish.

 

I can't speak for other countries, but as far as the UK is concerned lawyers and agents have absolutely no influence over the decision making. Those who claim they can guarantee you an easy visa because they do have such influence are lying.

 

If you know of such corruption occurring I suggest that you inform UKVI immediately.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Thats OK & good luck but you know what ? I read other posters here who like to write of their successful apps which they wrote themselves . Maybe they should be given the opportunity to oversee your visa app but I think no takers . Once again fingers crossed & good luck .

There is a pinned topic, UK visit visa basics, designed to help people with their applications.

 

Members who know what they are talking about also regularly offer help to those who post to ask.

 

It is unfortunate that sometimes topics like this get hijacked and dragged off course by people who know nothing about the UK visa application process.

 

Of course ECOs are human and do make mistakes; applications get refused which should be granted and vice versa. But applicants and sponsors are human, too; they also ,make mistakes. In nearly 20 years of being involved in UK visa applications, both personally and on behalf of others, it is my experience that most applications are refused either because the applicant doesn't qualify or, more usually, failed to show that they do.

 

4 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Question - If you plan not to include the applicants finances (no water muddying) but she has a job, all be it a commission only job for a large clothing company, it that worth mentioning or could it open a can of worms?

I don't have time to answer right now as I've just had a quick look before going to work. 

 

But I will answer this evening (UK time).

 

One question for you, though. You say

4 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

I'm thinking if she has a job and can show letter from employer it may help to erase the 'she may not return to Thailand' thingy that these ECO's seem obsessed with.

Are you saying that reason to return should be ignored? That anyone from anywhere should be allowed into the UK as a visitor and then allowed to remain indefinitely?

[Pat in Pattaya]

27 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

There is a pinned topic, UK visit visa basics, designed to help people with their applications.

 

Members who know what they are talking about also regularly offer help to those who post to ask.

 

It is unfortunate that sometimes topics like this get hijacked and dragged off course by people who know nothing about the UK visa application process.

 

Of course ECOs are human and do make mistakes; applications get refused which should be granted and vice versa. But applicants and sponsors are human, too; they also ,make mistakes. In nearly 20 years of being involved in UK visa applications, both personally and on behalf of others, it is my experience that most applications are refused either because the applicant doesn't qualify or, more usually, failed to show that they do.

 

I don't have time to answer right now as I've just had a quick look before going to work. 

 

But I will answer this evening (UK time).

 

One question for you, though. You say

Are you saying that reason to return should be ignored? That anyone from anywhere should be allowed into the UK as a visitor and then allowed to remain indefinitely?

No I'm not saying it should be ignored. Any other questions?

[wgdanson]

On 5/14/2018 at 5:54 PM, Russell17au said:

he visa was always signed by a member of the Global VFS staff who is Thai

Just looked at my gfs four UK visas, they are not signed by anyone. VFS are simply a 'post office' where you take your documents, for Schengen as well as UK, USA, OZ etc. They can advise whether your documentation will be accepted by the decision maker, but from recent experience, they do not always get it correct, and I had had to 'force' them to submit the application, which was approved. They have no say whatsoever in the issuing of a Visa.