Too many village blackouts, need advice

[4MyEgo]

It appears ever time it looks like its going to sprinkle or rain, the village power is shut down which frustrates the living crap out of me, as this is a frequent event of late, that said rain season is approaching, and I can't do this any longer, so need some first hand experiences from you guys who have had generators installed or some other devices that take over when the power is down.

 

I would be interested to know if anyone can recommend a proven system, preferably a quiet generator with little smell from the diesel fumes (if any), this is all new to me so bare with me.

 

Interested getting someone who could travel to do the job between Udon Thani and Sakhon Nakhon, i.e. come out and assess the size of the dwelling (if possible) and says, you need this, and we can come in, install it and when you get a blackout, this generator kicks in automatically, or you have to manually flick a switch and you will have power to run your a/c's, lights, power points, internet for up to 12 hours, or am I dreaming.

 

As always your informed comments are always appreciated.

[Lamkyong]

as possible alternative   maybe give solar a thought   not difficult   add a automatic switchover

makes it completely silent /no fumes   and no fuel/maintainence  costs

downside origional outlay   more expensive     than genset set up

[bankruatsteve]

Everything you want is certainly available - but it's expensive.  If you don't already have a place to house the generator, you will also need construction for that.  You should be able to find (google) several companies in your area for quotes.

[Fruit Trader]

If off longer than 1 hour we sometimes start a small portable generator and manually feed stuff in the work shed. My biggest concern is my meat and stuff in the house freezer.

 

Don't always expect the internet to be available after your back up plan kicks in.

[Crossy]

I built our transfer switch and generator controller, as well as converting a cheap petrol genset to full auto start.

 

 

 

[Mattd]

My old company had a diesel generator and auto switching system, it cost a lot of money to install, but one thing I do remember is that they had to get approval from the Electricity company to do this, this was to ensure that the power supply from the generator had no way of feeding in to the grid past the premises, so those that have or plan to do this, be aware that this approval may well be mandatory and if found not to have could cause you an issue.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Mattd said:

My old company had a diesel generator and auto switching system, it cost a lot of money to install, but one thing I do remember is that they had to get approval from the Electricity company to do this, this was to ensure that the power supply from the generator had no way of feeding in to the grid past the premises, so those that have or plan to do this, be aware that this approval may well be mandatory and if found not to have could cause you an issue.

I don't believe there is any requirement for approval for domestic sized equipment (<10kVA).

 

Big kit for data centres and the like yes as this could seriously compromise the safety of the staff trying to get your power back on if back-feed occurs.

 

I will try to check, just in case.

 

In reality, nobody is going to check.

 

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

I don't believe there is any requirement for approval for domestic sized equipment (<10kVA).

 

Big kit for data centres and the like yes as this could seriously compromise the safety of the staff trying to get your power back on if back-feed occurs.

 

I will try to check, just in case.

 

In reality, nobody is going to check.

 

I found this company on Google and am starting my enquiries: http://www.generatorsolutions.org/

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I found this company on Google and am starting my enquiries: http://www.generatorsolutions.org/

They also happen to be a forum sponsor as @genset definitely worth talking to for a professional job.

 

[meinphuket]

You are not alone. Here in prosperous and top travel destination Phuket ,where I live in A.Muang Chalong, we have brown-outs or transformer explosions at least once a week. On Wednesday twice in a morning. This has been going on for the past 12 years without  let up, despite endless so called 'upgrades' and 'maintenance' to the grid. It destroys my equipment, pumps etc. Back where I'm from, there was never an electricity interruption at all, so I blame it on gross incompetency. For the inevitable beer bar morons on the forum; I understand that if I don't like it I can always go home.

[stropper]

what i  did, as we live in the bush, on our farm in a small village, 83 houses with a lot of blackouts, some for hours, i have mostly good quality australian switchs and plugs, all earthed and used big cable, so  at the fuse box i have a huge turn off  handle elec fuse, so everything is seperated from the power grid, i bought a good size generator 40k bhart, a strong extension cord from the generator which is outside,  plug into a 30amp power point in the house, and away we go, it does easily, the fridge, tv , couple fans and many lights, out here we sometimes are the only power seen for miles, and hours, and i always have a cold beer, and that is important!

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, stropper said:

what i  did, as we live in the bush, on our farm in a small village, 83 houses with a lot of blackouts, some for hours, i have mostly good quality australian switchs and plugs, all earthed and used big cable, so  at the fuse box i have a huge turn off  handle elec fuse, so everything is seperated from the power grid, i bought a good size generator 40k bhart, a strong extension cord from the generator which is outside,  plug into a 30amp power point in the house, and away we go, it does easily, the fridge, tv , couple fans and many lights, out here we sometimes are the only power seen for miles, and hours, and i always have a cold beer, and that is important!

That simple ?

 

Is your generator noisy ?

 

Does it let out a lot of smoke fumes when on ?

 

How many (kva) does it have ?

 

Brand and would you recommend it to a fellow Aussie ?

 

Any chance of getting a picture of the fuse box to see the turn of handle, I know its a lot to ask, but new at all this.

 

Is it in a shed with a concrete slab on ground and covered with a roof from weather conditions, e.g. rain/flooding ?

 

The cold beer would make it all work the while.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

25 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

That simple ?

 

Is your generator noisy ?

 

Does it let out a lot of smoke fumes when on ?

 

How many (kva) does it have ?

 

Brand and would you recommend it to a fellow Aussie ?

 

Any chance of getting a picture of the fuse box to see the turn of handle, I know its a lot to ask, but new at all this.

 

Is it in a shed with a concrete slab on ground and covered with a roof from weather conditions, e.g. rain/flooding ?

 

The cold beer would make it all work the while.

 

 

It can be that simple, BUT it's not the proper way to do it and it is potentially very unsafe.  At minimum there needs a transfer switch (DPDT) to enable/isolate the generator/mains at the same time.

 

All generators are noisy.  Diesel less so than gas but they should also have their own generous space to live (keep out of the weather while providing good ventilation.)  From your OP, it sounds like you would need at least 10KVA.

[billd766]

On 17/5/2561 at 10:23 AM, Lamkyong said:

as possible alternative   maybe give solar a thought   not difficult   add a automatic switchover

makes it completely silent /no fumes   and no fuel/maintainence  costs

downside origional outlay   more expensive     than genset set up

 

Solar is a good way of doing it, however the costs as you say are higher, certainly at this time and ongoings costs mean that the batteries and solar panels will need to be replaced every few years.

 

There is also the problem of space in some cases where the house and land is small and the probling in finding a good installation and maintainence company.

 

Having said that I think it a great way to go.

 

You can buy diesel generators which are quiet running and if room permits you can site them further from the house, perhaps get an extension on the exhaust pipe to move the fumes further away.

[genset]

7 hours ago, Crossy said:

They also happen to be a forum sponsor as @genset definitely worth talking to for a professional job.

 

Cheers Crossy, long time no chat, hope all's well on the purple/green/blue/yellow line..? I lose track...

 

To clarify your earlier comment, 500kVA and above with either a Closed Transition (Synchronized System) or an Open Transition ATS (utility and gen supplies never engaged simultaneously) Automatic Transfer Switch. It is a requirement to register the installation with the PEA.

 

Less than 500kVA no requirement to register with PEA, but you may come across local officials who say differently if they think they can pull the wool over your eyes and make a few bob...

 

Either way be careful if your installation is not carried out by a reputable supplier, the step-down transformer which supplies your home works the same way in reverse if back-fed by your generator. If you're not using a break-before-make transfer switch to completely isolate the utility and generator supplies, your harmless little genny has the potential to fry some poor lineman repairing or maintaining your supply lines... forewarned is forearmed.

 

Been a while since i dusted this off... but perhaps the readers in the thread may find it to be of some use...

 

Cheers Genset...

[Mattd]

4 minutes ago, genset said:

Less than 500kVA no requirement to register with PEA, but you may come across local officials who say differently if they think they can pull the wool over your eyes and make a few bob...

Thanks for the clarification, the example I gave was 800kVA, so that is why approval was required.

[genset]

20 hours ago, Crossy said:

I built our transfer switch and generator controller, as well as converting a cheap petrol genset to full auto start.

 

 

 

 

...yeah but you're an electrical god... what about us mere mortals..? :)

 

[Crossy]

I'm sure Generatorsolutions will come back with good info.

 

You need to define exactly what you need:-

 

Full house with aircon etc etc, or a few lights and the telly.

Full auto start and transfer, or go out in the pouring rain to start the beast.

 

Are you a DIY nut or just want to pay someone to set it all up.

 

And of course $$$ 

 

As an eternal tightwad who just happens to be an engineer we went for low budget / high functionality which you can see from my earlier linked thread.

 

Our cheap Thai genset (Kwaithong) whilst noisy (it lives in a DIY silent enclosure) just gets the battery charged and tank topped up monthly (or after a long outage) and an oil change for a Christmas present. It starts every time within 30 seconds, rain or shine (usually rain).

 

The only negative is that the villagers are like moths, attracted to light, unlike moths which sip nectar they drink my beer (Chang is not nectar) and watch our TV.

 

 

 

 

[StevieAus]

Have you tried addressing the source of the problem, we live in the North in Chiang Mai Province and have to say find the PEA pretty good and responsive,

We have had problems as we are at the end of the line with voltage drops for a few years.

The brother in law who is an electrician tracked someone down at the regional office who advised him to get the locals and head local to send in letters outlining the problem

He did all the footwork drafted letters etc and sent them in 

Has taken several months but they carried out a big upgrade including additional transformers upgraded the cables etc etc we can now have three phase if we wish

Must have cost ( not us) an arm and a leg but the change amazing.

Maybe worth a try.

[misterphil]

You can pick up a 5kVA generator for 10,000 baht on the classifieds here.

 

http://www.bahtsold.com/view/5-kw-generator-328679

 

http://www.bahtsold.com/view/diesel-generator-for-sale-308460

 

http://www.bahtsold.com/view/brand-new-gennys-no-1-silent-11kva-215-000thb-245299

 

This will only power your fridge, TV and some fans. I used this set up in Chiang Mai and it was suffice for what I needed. If you want to power your house with AC's and everything else you'll need 10 to 20kVA.

 

Rule of thumb is that a generator should run at 80% load for optimum efficiency. 

 

So for example if you have 8 AC's that are 1KW each you need a 10kVA generator. 

8 x 1000 watts = 8000 watts. 8KW is 80% of 10kVA. 

 

Its easy to do a kVA calculation. You need to add up all the watts and KW's that your house uses. Look on AC's, fridges, water heaters and add it all up. 

 

There's plenty of kVA calculators online, but like I said 80% optimum efficiency. 

 

http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Power_Calculator.aspx#kwtokva

 

Its not difficult to set up anyone with basic electrical and mechanics skills can do it. 

 

You'll need:

 

Generator

Cable

Breaker

Change over box, manual or auto. Auto are not cheap but very convenient especially if you have electric gates and don't want to get locked out. 

http://www.bahtsold.com/view/reverser-automatic-generator-mono15kva-212711

 

Jerry cans for diesel

 

http://en.bangkokgen.co.th/products/generators

 

http://www.dfzthai.com/index.php?module=product&cat=5

[Russell17au]

The old house that I was in out in the village had a knife switch just above the circuit box so I bought another knife switch and mounted it alongside the other one and ran the wires from the 2 knife switches into the circuit box plus I put a separate light switch and light off the inlet side of the grid knife switch so that I would know when the power came back on. It was a simple operation that when the power went off you started the generator and then you throw the grid knife switch off and the generator knife switch on, this disconnects the power from backfeeding into the grid and the grid power could not backfeed into the generator. The small light would tell me that the power was back on so that I could change everything back to normal and then I could turn the small light off. 

[bankruatsteve]

2 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

The old house that I was in out in the village had a knife switch just above the circuit box so I bought another knife switch and mounted it alongside the other one and ran the wires from the 2 knife switches into the circuit box plus I put a separate light switch and light off the inlet side of the grid knife switch so that I would know when the power came back on. It was a simple operation that when the power went off you started the generator and then you throw the grid knife switch off and the generator knife switch on, this disconnects the power from backfeeding into the grid and the grid power could not backfeed into the generator. The small light would tell me that the power was back on so that I could change everything back to normal and then I could turn the small light off. 

That's how I originally had my set up but I was crucified by TV.  Back then transfer switches were not easy to find, but now can easily be ordered online.  Also, a watt meter (Lazada and others) is great to have on the mains before any switches.  Many times our power comes back enough to turn on the lights but only 100v or so.  The watt meter tells you everything you need to know.

[DJ54]

I’m in a village in NE house is outside the  main village area. Main area has maybe 5 Mom and Pop shops a bit like in the boonies.

 

Rainy season have power outs quite frequently in our area. Main area doesn’t have as many outages. 

when us

Bought a small generator at Global @ $300 USD. To save the food in frig 

and not swelter all night trying to sleep. Power goes out have to turn off

all switches at the box.

 

Plug arge heavy duty cable that is used only for the generator into the electric socket. Depending which wall socket you plug into denotes what gets power. Make sure all breaker switches are off or will have 

problems if power come straight on. 

 

Luckily there is a socket that powers kitchen and our bedroom (only room with AC). When using generator for outage it’s out on patio on other side of house.  It’s a gas generator and when topped up runs @ 10 hours.

 

Generator makes some noise but not unbearable. With it in other side of

house a little noise but AC  TV and refreshments you don’t notice. 10 hours you get good sleep when fuel is out it’s ok wee hours of the morning your asleep and the heat the next day can wake you up if no alram. 

 

I do like the idea of solar!

 

One power outage all day around 8:00 at night noticed the houses down the road had power. Unfortunately the generator was at farm when building small house.

 

<deleted>? Checked the breaker box all are on. Wife called a friend who is an

electrician. He checked the breakers and then out to pole/meter. Fami called PEA and they said bill wasn’t paid so meter removed. I was home all day no one came to the house to advise. 

 

In the village a lady lady comes around with electric bill from PEA. A week prior the lady came by I paid and had receipt. Note we pay two seperate bills one for house one farm. All times prior both paid at same time to lady. 

 

A few days later a different lady came by that I’d not seen before with a bill. Didn’t have any cash no one at home that spoke English. I tried 

to explain using hand signals come back tomorrow. She didn’t come back. 

 

PEA acknowledged bill for the House was paid. So no power for two days until they come and put on meter. 

 

The electricain Ian went across the street to neighbor told them we need to tie into their electric for two days and will pay 100 a day. Ok no problem he jumped it. All good two days meter back on.

 

that my friends is life in the village....... 

[genset]

22 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Plug arge heavy duty cable that is used only for the generator into the electric socket. Depending which wall socket you plug into denotes what gets power. Make sure all breaker switches are off or will have 

problems if power come straight on. 

 

 

 

Hi DJ54,

 

This is an open forum and people are free give their opinions and advice about all sorts of things, but as somebody who has tried to help over the years regarding the 'safe installation and use' of Generators in Thailand, i feel it would be remiss of me if I didn't pitch in at this point and warn any forum members, thinking of following your example to think twice. This is a dangerous and potentially deadly method of connecting a Generator to your home distribution system.

 

Not trying to put anybody's nose out of joint, but break before make transfer switches are designed in such a way for a purpose, to prevent damage to your equipment, and the potential of harming anybody working upstream on the utility lines.

 

Cheers Genset...

[VocalNeal]

Quite simple? To install one of these in the house circuit. Impossible to have both connected at the same time.

 

You can still have a plug/socket arrangement to/from it if you wish where the genset actually plugs in.  

[genset]

2 hours ago, misterphil said:

Its easy to do a kVA calculation. You need to add up all the watts and KW's that your house uses. Look on AC's, fridges, water heaters and add it all up. 

 

 

 

Hey misterphil,

 

Lots of useful advice for sure, and in principle you are correct regarding the peak load calculation for a Generator when considering linear loads.

 

Non-linear loads throw up other considerations such as lock-rotor amps on startup of motors and the effects SCR's (silicone controlled rectifiers) can have on Generator AVR's. I would say that if you have a lot of sensitive electronics, large pumps/motors, soft start motors, or large / multiple UPS units, get advice when it comes to correct Generator sizing. Some of these effects can be offset by derating of the Generator, or the addition of a load bank (a large linear load) in the case of a large % of SCR load.

 

Cheers Genset.

[Fruit Trader]

44 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Bought a small generator at Global @ $300 USD. To save the food in frig 

and not swelter all night trying to sleep. Power goes out have to turn off

all switches at the box.

 

Plug arge heavy duty cable that is used only for the generator into the electric socket. Depending which wall socket you plug into denotes what gets power. Make sure all breaker switches are off or will have 

problems if power come straight on. 

 

Luckily there is a socket that powers kitchen and our bedroom (only room with AC). When using generator for outage it’s out on patio on other side of house.  It’s a gas generator and when topped up runs @ 10 hours.

 

Now that's some proper Thai style plug and play backup power and extreme culture bonding. Local TV safety committee will love it.
 

[Crossy]

There are many, many ways to safely connect your genset into your house wiring.

 

Plugging into an outlet, whilst cheap and easy isn't one of them.

 

It is imperative that your genset and the mains (whether on or off) can never be connected at the same time, period!

 

Using some sort of interlock is essential, memory slips.

 

Get one of these for under $10 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2P-50A-MTS-Dual-power-Manual-transfer-switch-Circuit-breaker-MCB-50HZ-60HZ-400/32786862314.html

 

The two sides are interlocked but you should still turn one off before turning the other on.

[DJ54]

 

44 minutes ago, genset said:

 

Hi DJ54,

 

This is an open forum and people are free give their opinions and advice about all sorts of things, but as somebody who has tried to help over the years regarding the 'safe installation and use' of Generators in Thailand, i feel it would be remiss of me if I didn't pitch in at this point and warn any forum members, thinking of following your example to think twice. This is a dangerous and potentially deadly method of connecting a Generator to your home distribution system.

 

Not trying to put anybody's nose out of joint, but break before make transfer switches are designed in such a way for a purpose, to prevent damage to your equipment, and the potential of harming anybody working upstream on the utility lines.

 

Cheers Genset...

Thanks Genset the information is appreciated. Do you suggest I delete the post probably best and leave the one you sent that has both. 

 

The first time using this method was before House was built in a cabin type 1 room on back of lot. Not knowing much about electric except for

stay away from it and let someone do the work. 

 

When the man next door (Thai no English) showed how to use the generator and plugged in outdoor socket of cabin. I was shaking my head thinking really?? It worked so thought he knew what he was talking about (to Thai papa) and shutting off all breakers. 

 

I live 22 km from Kumphawapi and not sure how to find a electrician that knows how to install Transfer switch. I will do some reasearch. 

The wiring in house was not done by the neighbor was part of the crew that built house. 

 

Take a look at the attached picture and you’ll understand hillbilly.

 

Farang neighbors has nice system for reserve water tank inline pump etc.beautiful set-up. Told the wife we need the same set-up and would have the guy installed theirs due to no water certain parts of day. 

 

Papa and Uncle know how to do it and less money. Doesn’t work been there for a year. Smoke my head laughed and forgot about it. Can always punch a hole in it and water the backyard vegetable garden. 

 

It it gets worse we have grass (from sod) all around the house. The lines from water supply to the reserve tank is above ground and no way 

to mow......  

 

Guess that’s why whisky was invented to sit on porch and shake your

head.  

 

Thanks for your advise and know of a place near here let me know. 

 

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Do you suggest I delete the post probably best and leave the one you sent that has both. 

Actually, I suggest that it, and the responses stay.

 

My reasoning? Simply that others have the same idea without realising the dangers they are subjecting themselves, their generator and the power company staff to.