Renting out rooms daily or weekly? You better read this.

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, Airalee said:

WRT the purchase/investment scheme in Phuket, I’d prefer something a little less risky myself.  No such thing (for the most part) as a win-win investment IMHO.  Developers are smart and certainly aren’t going to leave any money on the table.  And, who knows what inflation will be and what the condo will be worth in 15 years.  Or how much of a chance there is of complete reneging of the “deal”.

There are a lot of shonky property investments in Patong/Phuket and I once described it as " the Wild West of" Thailand property investment and nobody quite knows how some of these are going to play out in the future, but as you and KittenKong have suggested, this is a risky market and it will be the developers and property sales people who will win in the end, not the investors IMO.

 

A friend who lives in a large recently completed condominium development is absolutely fed up with the comings and goings of short-term rental people, what with the inappropriate hours, the noise and the litter, but if you look at it from the owner's perspective, they see it as trying to maximise their investment, so there are conflicting purposes at play here.

 

I wonder how many people who bought into such condominium developments were informed of the fact that there were laws governing short-term rentals?

[Airalee]

13 minutes ago, xylophone said:

A friend who lives in a large recently completed condominium development is absolutely fed up with the comings and goings of short-term rental people, what with the inappropriate hours, the noise and the litter, but if you look at it from the owner's perspective, they see it as trying to maximise their investment, so there are conflicting purposes at play here.

I’m sure that the guy who buys a house for a meth lab feels the same way about maximizing his investment (joking)

 

When they bought the place, I can believe that they didn’t know about the law...but, now they know. Every condo I have walked into here in BKK has the same big sign saying short term rentals are illegal. It’s a bummer for them (the Airbnb investard) so now, they can either choose to either take a chance and continue to rent on a short term basis, or they can be smart and sell their place before there is a rush for the exits (if and when the powers that be decide to start cracking down hard).

[xylophone]

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

so now, they can either choose to either take a chance and continue to rent on a short term basis, or they can be smart and sell their place before there is a rush for the exits

Try selling any property that is not new here...…...big reductions might snag a buyer, but so many properties (condos, apts, houses) unsold here for years.

 

So I guess taking a chance that the law isn't going to crack down may be an option that many take.

[Airalee]

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Try selling any property that is not new here...…...big reductions might snag a buyer, but so many properties (condos, apts, houses) unsold here for years.

 

So I guess taking a chance that the law isn't going to crack down may be an option that many take.

Or they can compete for the few long term renters.  Hello supply...meet demand. ?

[bkk6060]

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Try selling any property that is not new here...…...big reductions might snag a buyer, but so many properties (condos, apts, houses) unsold here for years.

 

So I guess taking a chance that the law isn't going to crack down may be an option that many take.

False.

Most places at The Base in Pattaya have gone up about 1 million over the past couple of years.

Location, location, location it is probably the best in Pattaya.

If one is buying a place in a not so desired location, do not expect appreciation.

Jomtien is nice but absolutely no recent appreciation many many on the market.

If you bought it to live in it long time, then enjoy and do not complain about the lack of price increase or inability to sell because it will not happen.

 

[Airalee]

8 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

False.

Most places at The Base in Pattaya have gone up about 1 million over the past couple of years.

Location, location, location it is probably the best in Pattaya.

If one is buying a place in a not so desired location, do not expect appreciation.

Jomtien is nice but absolutely no recent appreciation many many on the market.

If you bought it to live in it long time, then enjoy and do not complain about the lack of price increase or inability to sell because it will not happen.

 

All someone needs to do is take a look at a satellite view of where the base is and they can see how much land is available (tons) where a big developer can bulldoze all the worthless shophouses and build something bigger and better than the base a dozen times over.

 

its Pattaya...not Monaco.

[xylophone]

20 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

False.

Most places at The Base in Pattaya have gone up about 1 million over the past couple of years.

Location, location, location it is probably the best in Pattaya.

If one is buying a place in a not so desired location, do not expect appreciation.

Jomtien is nice but absolutely no recent appreciation many many on the market.

If you bought it to live in it long time, then enjoy and do not complain about the lack of price increase or inability to sell because it will not happen.

 

Getting off track a little, and I agree with you that property in the right location should sell. But then again how many properties these days are in the "right location"?

 

Right location one-year, wrong location the next (see Airalees post).

 

The problem being that many of these condo developments were sold to buyers as an investment and to provide an income, and were one of hundreds if not thousands of condominiums built this way, for this specific purpose, and not necessarily always in the prime locations.

 

Now the law seems to be changing or being enforced, and many will be left "high and dry" and as another poster has said, competing for a few long-term renters – – not where they thought they would be when they invested.

 

[Airalee]

34 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Getting off track a little, and I agree with you that property in the right location should sell. But then again how many properties these days are in the "right location"?

 

Right location one-year, wrong location the next (see Airalees post).

 

The problem being that many of these condo developments were sold to buyers as an investment and to provide an income, and were one of hundreds if not thousands of condominiums built this way, for this specific purpose, and not necessarily always in the prime locations.

 

Now the law seems to be changing or being enforced, and many will be left "high and dry" and as another poster has said, competing for a few long-term renters – – not where they thought they would be when they invested.

 

Exactly...and when you look at the condos in the base, they’re nothing special at all.  How someone can argue “location, location! Location!!” for a place with 29sqm 1brs and 50sqm 2brs? (Oops...I see there are some 70 sqm 2brs...wow)

 

Location, Location, Location should be a term reserved for prime real estate but real estate agents are quite liberal with their use of that term.

 

For all we know, the shiny towers of today will be the Cabrini Greens of the future.

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Exactly...and when you look at the condos in the base, they’re nothing special at all.  How someone can argue “location, location! Location!!” for a place with 29sqm 1brs and 50sqm 2brs? (Oops...I see there are some 70 sqm 2brs...wow)

 

Location, Location, Location should be a term reserved for prime real estate but real estate agents are quite liberal with their use of that term.

 

For all we know, the shiny towers of today will be the Cabrini Greens of the future.

Totally clueless but I bet you have never been here.

Central is central.  You cannot move an entire district.

Walk to all the shops, malls, beach, restaurants within 10 minutes.

There are no other new projects in central but The Base.  Which is why it is one of the few places that has appreciated 20 to 30% over the past 2 years.

For the record I do not own here but I have made a lot of money with basic real estate common sense.  Many do not which is why they cry no money.

Think what you want but sq mtr price has not much to do with it when you have a prime location.

But that is the stupidity of many people they think bigger means better so they buy in no mans land and lose/make no money and complain complain.

What a waste foolishness, but up to you.......

[newnative]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

There are a lot of shonky property investments in Patong/Phuket and I once described it as " the Wild West of" Thailand property investment and nobody quite knows how some of these are going to play out in the future, but as you and KittenKong have suggested, this is a risky market and it will be the developers and property sales people who will win in the end, not the investors IMO.

 

A friend who lives in a large recently completed condominium development is absolutely fed up with the comings and goings of short-term rental people, what with the inappropriate hours, the noise and the litter, but if you look at it from the owner's perspective, they see it as trying to maximise their investment, so there are conflicting purposes at play here.

 

I wonder how many people who bought into such condominium developments were informed of the fact that there were laws governing short-term rentals?

     To answer your likely rhetorical question, my answer would be zero.  On the contrary, they were probably told they could make big money renting them.  Several new projects that I know of have sold 20 and 30 or more condos to individual Chinese investors.  What did they think these individuals were going to do with 30 condos?  Obviously, operate them  as a hotel within the condominium--and use the condominium staff a lot of the time.  The developer may have even given that as a suggestion.

    There is a big developer that also operates a holiday rental service for its condos.  Even the name shouts short-term.  Is it likely that this developer is going to build in features like fingerprint technology into the condos it builds in order make short-term rentals much more difficult?  Hardly. 

     Several big management companies in Pattaya are also in on the action.  Some of the big developers, especially while still selling condos at a project,  accept much higher than normal management fees in return for the management company facilitating the short-term rentals or at least not rocking the boat.  The developer at that stage still holds all the cards and can pick the management company it wants.  Individual condo owners can find it difficult to change things because you often have the developer, management staff, and the owners doing the daily rentals against any change.  A good condo board helps but that's not often the case with new condo projects with the developer mostly still in control.

  

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Totally clueless but I bet you have never been here.

Central is central.  You cannot move an entire district.

Walk to all the shops, malls, beach, restaurants within 10 minutes.

There are no other new projects in central but The Base.  Which is why it is one of the few places that has appreciated 20 to 30% over the past 2 years.

For the record I do not own here but I have made a lot of money with basic real estate common sense.  Many do not which is why they cry no money.

Think what you want but sq mtr price has not much to do with it when you have a prime location.

But that is the stupidity of many people they think bigger means better so they buy in no mans land and lose/make no money and complain complain.

What a waste foolishness, but up to you.......

LOL!

 

So, you’ve been pounding your keyboard, frothing at the mouth that the only good Condo is “The Base” and you don’t even own one yourself.  I’m willing to bet you’re nothing but a used condo salesperson who isn’t willing to put his money where his mouth is but likes to insult people (too poor, too stupid) when they counter his empty sales pitch with facts and numbers.

 

Look how popular “The Base” is on Airbnb.  Only 3 reviews for the last 7 months and not a single booking from here on out.

 

Money maker indeed.

 

[Airalee]

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

     To answer your likely rhetorical question, my answer would be zero.  On the contrary, they were probably told they could make big money renting them.  Several new projects that I know of have sold 20 and 30 or more condos to individual Chinese investors.  What did they think these individuals were going to do with 30 condos?  Obviously, operate them  as a hotel within the condominium--and use the condominium staff a lot of the time.  The developer may have even given that as a suggestion.

    There is a big developer that also operates a holiday rental service for its condos.  Even the name shouts short-term.  Is it likely that this developer is going to build in features like fingerprint technology into the condos it builds in order make short-term rentals much more difficult?  Hardly. 

     Several big management companies in Pattaya are also in on the action.  Some of the big developers, especially while still selling condos at a project,  accept much higher than normal management fees in return for the management company facilitating the short-term rentals or at least not rocking the boat.  The developer at that stage still holds all the cards and can pick the management company it wants.  Individual condo owners can find it difficult to change things because you often have the developer, management staff, and the owners doing the daily rentals against any change.  A good condo board helps but that's not often the case with new condo projects with the developer mostly still in control.

  

The listing I took a screenshot from above appears to be a Chinese investor (or group of investors...who knows) that has 64 listings in Pattaya but only 23 reviews in total.  That appears to be an investment disaster.

 

Even having a long term renter can be quite risky.  Hopefully you have someone as respectful as me for a tenant. I keep my place immaculately clean, am a quiet tenant (I left my Bryston/B&W stereo system back in Los Angeles) and have already paid my rent through October.  I even bought a new mattress and sofa that I will leave with the landlord when my tenancy is finished someday in the future.

[newnative]

17 minutes ago, Airalee said:

The listing I took a screenshot from above appears to be a Chinese investor (or group of investors...who knows) that has 64 listings in Pattaya but only 23 reviews in total.  That appears to be an investment disaster.

 

Even having a long term renter can be quite risky.  Hopefully you have someone as respectful as me for a tenant. I keep my place immaculately clean, am a quiet tenant (I left my Bryston/B&W stereo system back in Los Angeles) and have already paid my rent through October.  I even bought a new mattress and sofa that I will leave with the landlord when my tenancy is finished someday in the future.

Hope your landlord appreciates you!

[Airalee]

2 minutes ago, newnative said:

Hope your landlord appreciates you!

I hope so too.  Not much communication with him other than when the AC was dripping inside the ceiling.  I sent him a pic on LINE and within an hour, someone was there to fix it.  If he tries to raise my rent, there are tons of vacant units in my building that I can move to within minutes.  Then, he will be stuck with an empty unit and another months commission to the agency who rents it for him...but who knows how long that will take.  

 

I think we have a copacetic relationship.

[newnative]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

Try selling any property that is not new here...…...big reductions might snag a buyer, but so many properties (condos, apts, houses) unsold here for years.

 

So I guess taking a chance that the law isn't going to crack down may be an option that many take.

     You can sell--even in this market, and at a profit, but you usually need to have bought wisely to begin with, you usually need to price realistically, you usually need to do a lot of work getting the condo listed everywhere, it usually helps a lot if your condo is better than anything else for sale in the project, and it's usually a big help if there's no clutter and it looks great and ready to show at all times with little notice.  (No filthy bathroom and someone asleep in bed.)  I use 'usually' a lot because there are, obviously, exceptions but I think the more of the above you can tick off the better your chances.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

There are a lot of shonky property investments in Patong/Phuket and I once described it as " the Wild West of" Thailand property investment and nobody quite knows how some of these are going to play out in the future, but as you and KittenKong have suggested, this is a risky market and it will be the developers and property sales people who will win in the end, not the investors IMO.

 

A friend who lives in a large recently completed condominium development is absolutely fed up with the comings and goings of short-term rental people, what with the inappropriate hours, the noise and the litter, but if you look at it from the owner's perspective, they see it as trying to maximise their investment, so there are conflicting purposes at play here.

 

I wonder how many people who bought into such condominium developments were informed of the fact that there were laws governing short-term rentals?

 

I'm not sure there is an owner's perspective in the way you illustrate.

[jenny2017]

 I guess many foreigners will have bigger problems not only in Hua Hin.

 

  I hope my mate in Phuket gets his condos sorted. Wouldn't be nice if they make troubles. 

[tryasimight]

On 5/21/2018 at 10:04 AM, BobBKK said:

The law is clear and has been for years. No rentals under 30 days it's illegal. My condo enforced this years ago and allows only 3 months + and I voted for it at our AGM. Why?  because I don't want tons strangers in and out, I don't want condo staff used for this, I don't want tons of short stayers in the pool and for security reasons.

What security reasons? 

[newnative]

4 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

False.

Most places at The Base in Pattaya have gone up about 1 million over the past couple of years.

Location, location, location it is probably the best in Pattaya.

If one is buying a place in a not so desired location, do not expect appreciation.

Jomtien is nice but absolutely no recent appreciation many many on the market.

If you bought it to live in it long time, then enjoy and do not complain about the lack of price increase or inability to sell because it will not happen.

 

      You're right--my partner and I did make a little over a million on our Base condo.  There was a nice run-up from the initial price we paid during the build.  My thinking is the price may be around its peak, at least for awhile, unless the Edge pulls it up some more.  I certainly would not pay well over 4MB for a 35sqm condo, even in a great location, but some will.  Location, location, location and seaview, seaview, seaview gets you best appreciation and best chance to sell in Pattaya.  Always exceptions, of course, but you begin with a headstart.

     There are some highrise projects in Jomtien that have maintained their value fairly well--think, again, good location for Jomtien and seaview, but there are a lot of 'theme park', low-rise, no view, cheap, cookie-cutter condos that are going to be a difficult sell.   "Do you want parking lot view or screaming kids in the pool view?"  One project like this was built on a trash dump.  In my experience, trash dumps do not offer location, location, location.  

     I agree, if you buy a condo you like to live in it long-term, relax and enjoy it.  No matter what project you are in, your monthly expenses are likely much less than where you came from.  Your condo value may go down a bit, go up a bit, or stay about the same but, if you're  there long-term it doesn't matter all that much short-term and you're in your own space you own.

[tryasimight]

On 5/21/2018 at 2:39 PM, peterquixote said:

I completely sympathise with people in Condos suffering this influx of strays.

I rent here in Bangkok, and because Thais don't swim much  I have the pool to myself about 2pm.

My contract will say no sub letting,  I imagine and it is finger print entry to the building. 

You imagine?

[tryasimight]

On 5/22/2018 at 1:13 AM, ericthai said:

because they have a hotel license.  Condos are not hotels!

True...elsewhere they would be called a block of flats.

[DrTuner]

5 hours ago, Airalee said:

All someone needs to do is take a look at a satellite view of where the base is and they can see how much land is available (tons) where a big developer can bulldoze all the worthless shophouses and build something bigger and better than the base a dozen times over.

 

its Pattaya...not Monaco.

The landowners sit on those plots until the end of times as long as the price is going up. Must've been dirt cheap just 15-20y ago.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, tryasimight said:

What security reasons? 

   Umm.  How about hundreds of perfect (likely imperfect) strangers being given access to your residence and the run of the property every day 365 days a year with no screening whatsoever?  

[Lenard52]

I don't care where a tourist rents a place to stay for a week or for a short period, but there must be a reason why they chose to rent a place to stay other than a hotel?

 

A few months ago, I specifically looked for the higher end hotels online for a special trip.

 

But also received some ridiculously low cost/average rating hotels as well. 

 

So, why not stay at the lower end hotels that appear to be a nice place vice renting from what must be advertised as a condo?

 

Just curious?

[tryasimight]

On 5/23/2018 at 2:28 AM, newnative said:

   Umm.  How about hundreds of perfect (likely imperfect) strangers being given access to your residence and the run of the property every day 365 days a year with no screening whatsoever?  

Where is the security risk with that? I expect most of the people in a condo complex don't know each other I.e they are also strangers. 

What screening is given to a condo purchaser? None. 

Get used to hundreds of people having the run of your property 365.....thats part and parcel of communal living.  Perhaps buying a house is a better option. 

[newnative]

5 hours ago, tryasimight said:

Where is the security risk with that? I expect most of the people in a condo complex don't know each other I.e they are also strangers. 

What screening is given to a condo purchaser? None. 

Get used to hundreds of people having the run of your property 365.....thats part and parcel of communal living.  Perhaps buying a house is a better option. 

      Totally missing the point.  With rentals limited to a month minimum, you potentially have 12 new neighbors a year next door.  Daily illegal rentals, 365.  Quite a difference.  And, that's just one condo.  Multiply those figures by, say, a couple hundred condos or more being rented illegally in a large complex and I would hope you would start to see the problem of all these unscreened strangers having the run of the place.   Condo owners know very well they are signing up for "communal living".  Key word 'living'.  Communal living, not communal hoteling. 

     I think most landlords do some screening of tenants that will be renting a month or more--we always did with our tenants, which included a form they filled out, passport copies, and an interview.  As for screening the condo buyers, you're correct on that.  But, a condo owner is required to abide by the by-laws and if an owner is not following the rules  (also long-term tenants) the condo can step in and there's a better chance for a positive result than trying to deal with bad behavior with someone who is here for a day or 2 and then gone.