Urine Drug Tests How to Act?

[pr0fik]

Hi everyone, 

 

I already read topics related to this issue, but I didn't find the answer to my question.

 

Brief story:

 

Last night , i got "chosen" by police under BTS Asoke,  they asked me to do urine tests on the street. That night i did 2 puffs, and the result came positive. So ofc, they started to scare me about jail or fine of 40,000 baht. Eventually i had to pay to get away from this situation.

 

The money gone is a lesson, I am not drug user or even marijuana which last attempt was like 3 years ago.

 

What bothers me is : 

 

If I am clean, and i get stopped by police, how do i act? May I insist of taking tests in clinic or hospital?  Can I take video? ( Because last night i tried , they took my phone away from me, and 2 seconds video was deleted ) . 

What if they insist on urine test on the street again and it will be fake result?  Can I ask for the second check in laboratory or some other reliable place?

What if they plant something? How can i prove myself not guilty?

 

I just dont know how to act, when u have 10 police guys around you with flash lights on my face at  night time,  "talk shit about my back" (they didn't know i can speak Thai )....and dont let to call to anyone...

 

I became paranoid about them.

Any suggestion how to act or what to do in the particular situation?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[vogie]

Maybe if you stop taking the pee, they will.

[pr0fik]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Maybe if you stop taking the pee, they will.

Thanks for your reply.

As I understood, it is Legal for Thai police to perform urine tests on the street. 

[observer90210]

What if the tests make a mistake on people who are clean or are tampered by some corrupt cops ?

 

Thailand is becomming a very unsafe place for tourists due to the corruption.

 

Once you are safely back in a civilised country, you should right away write a letter to the Anti Corruption Division in Bangkok. There will be sufficient CCTV cameras to locate the rotten cops who robbed your money.

 

Share also your experience to your local newspapers. The bad publicity will urge the local Thai embassy to take up the issue with their masters in Bangkok.

[NetJunkie]

39 minutes ago, pr0fik said:

That night i did 2 puffs, and the result came positive.

 

39 minutes ago, pr0fik said:

I am not drug user or even marijuana which last attempt was like 3 years ago.

 

So your two puffs were what?

 

Have you tried not breaking the law? I find that the easiest way to deal with the police.

[pr0fik]

Just now, NetJunkie said:

 

 

So your two puffs were what?

 

Have you tried not breaking the law? I find that the easiest way to deal with the police.

Marijuana. Again, it is not about the last night. Yes - I am guilty and paid for it. Lesson learnt.

 

However, just more concern about fake results , as mentioned - paranoia of being accused for something never done.

Because simple things like taking a video of police or call to someone so you don't stay alone its impossible.

[IsaanFam]

How much did you pay?

 

Why not contact a lawyer? I mean, if you are keen enough to pay 40,000 THB or whatever the amount was, why not hire a lawyer and ask him for his advice and pay some money and then ask him if you can pay him double that in case the police stops you for a urine test you can call him. If it's a Sino-Thai lawyer with pictures of his papa high up the wall as a judge or whatever, it would be really possible that you can call him at the next event and get some real help. Only for the affluent of course who can pay 40k for such an offence.

 

In short, better call Saul. 

[pr0fik]

18 minutes ago, IsaanFam said:

How much did you pay?

 

Why not contact a lawyer? I mean, if you are keen enough to pay 40,000 THB or whatever the amount was, why not hire a lawyer and ask him for his advice and pay some money and then ask him if you can pay him double that in case the police stops you for a urine test you can call him. If it's a Sino-Thai lawyer with pictures of his papa high up the wall as a judge or whatever, it would be really possible that you can call him at the next event and get some real help. Only for the affluent of course who can pay 40k for such an offence.

 

In short, better call Saul. 

Thanks, been thinking about it also. Dont get me wrong , 40k was painful. But lawyer for not much fees could be great .

[richard_smith237]

It is my understanding that they cannot simply stop you on the street to provide a urine sample without 'cause'.

If a police officer suspects you, he should take you back to the station where there are commissioned officers who will witness you submission to provide a sample. You can refuse and call for a lawyer. 

 

At an organized Police stop (check point) there must be a Commissioned officer present (Pol Lt. or above). There needs to be a 'private area' where the test is taken (pee in a cup), or you can reject the test and choose to take it later at a station, in which case you will likely be detained.

 

Of course, for all of this to be of any use you need to speak Thai well enough to eloquently voice your rights, have lawyer backup and be able to recognize the difference between a Police Sergeant Major and a Police Lieutenant.

 

 

In your case - it seems like an organized and legal check point. You were tested, found guilty and given the option of being charged fully or paying to expedite proceedings and escape a potentially more difficult situation. 

 

With regards to dodgy corrupt police / fake positives etc... I've never heard of that here. Its certainly an uncomfortable prospect, but fortunately one we have little need to worry about. As corrupt as the police force seem, they are not so disgustingly dirty as to plant drugs, fake the results of drugs tests etc. 

 

If you are truly paranoid of such events, then it would be wise to plan for them and have a lawyer on call or at least a respected 'someone' who can talk to the police and ensure you are treated more favourably. 

 

 

In short - you can say no to a search and a drugs test. But you will be arrested and taken back to the station. 

You can legally video the station, but you are not in Thailand, while you have rights those in positions of power care little for them, thus, your best stance is not to allow any situation to escalate - there is no point in trying to win unless winning is simply allowing a situation to pass as smoothly and efficiently as possible for all concerned... Remember, the police don't want to catch you, its more work for them !

 

 

 

[jenny2017]

Perhaps less speed in your life. It makes people paranoid. 

[pr0fik]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thanks Richard, your reply was very useful. 

[smokie36]

The interesting thing here is you would have been taken to the police station and locked up until you could see a judge who would set bail at likely around 100k Baht.

 

Your problem if you don't live here would be the confiscation of your passport until the sentencing date which could be several months away.

 

Small amount of marijuana in your system would be a fine much lower than 40k Baht.

 

Swings and roundabouts here but overall 40k Baht I would just have paid to avoid the hassle.

 

Anyway you were guilty so lesson learned....Thailand is not a place to take illegal substances.

[lamyai3]

10 hours ago, pr0fik said:

Last night , i got "chosen" by police under BTS Asoke,

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Your report is disconcerting, in that random urine testing was largely discontinued after the social media debacle it kicked up about three years ago. In what circumstances were you stopped, and at what location and time of day? Last time the authorities here got out of hand with this, the world media was appalled and really went to town on it. 

[alfalfa19]

10 hours ago, NetJunkie said:

 

 

So your two puffs were what?

 

Have you tried not breaking the law? I find that the easiest way to deal with the police.

Not breaking the law in Thailand is no guarantee of anything. especially of not being extorted by crooked cops.  I don't drink or use drugs, and lead a totally legal lifestyle,  but I don't feel immune from persecution when in Thailand. I take it you lead a very holy lifestyle, and have not dropped a bit of paper in the street, or committed any other felonies while in Thailand. 

[alfalfa19]

9 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

Perhaps less speed in your life. It makes people paranoid. 

Did I miss where he said he uses speed?   Paranoia is a healthy attribute in Thailand. 

[NetJunkie]

1 minute ago, alfalfa19 said:

Not breaking the law in Thailand is no guarantee of anything. especially of not being extorted by crooked cops.  I don't drink or use drugs, and lead a totally legal lifestyle,  but I don't feel immune from persecution when in Thailand. I take it you lead a very holy lifestyle, and have not dropped a bit of paper in the street, or committed any other felonies while in Thailand. 

 

Close, I got a 2k fine for dropping a cigarette butt on Sukhumvit, have never done it since - so that fine worked.

 

Drinking is legal, so not sure why you mentioned it, and as for drugs, only an absolute moron would do drugs in a country with such draconian laws as Thailand.

[alfalfa19]

1 minute ago, NetJunkie said:

 

Close, I got a 2k fine for dropping a cigarette butt on Sukhumvit, have never done it since - so that fine worked.

 

Drinking is legal, so not sure why you mentioned it, and as for drugs, only an absolute moron would do drugs in a country with such draconian laws as Thailand.

the reason i mention drinking is because it impairs one's judgement, leads to possibly dangerous situations, especially while driving, etc.  I was trying to make a simple point:  although i am always sober and on my toes, it is quite possible to be victimized by crooked cops.  i have actually had it happen, although in a very minor way, much less than what happened to the  OP. 

[catman20]

10 hours ago, pr0fik said:

Thanks, been thinking about it also. Dont get me wrong , 40k was painful. But lawyer for not much fees could be great .

expensive puff 

[buick]

OP -  richard_smith237 provides some good info (as you noted already).  thanks to richard for that.

 

the road, i'll all it asoke (but i think it can also be ratchadapisek, sukhumvit soi 21, etc...) btwn rama IV and sukhumvit is well known for checkpoints.  these are not 'regular' checkpoints as they only stop non-thais in taxis (thais can be seen exiting the taxis but they are with non-thais).  they set the check point at rama IV as you turn left onto asoke, or on asoke as you turn left to sukhumvit.  i've lived walking distance from asoke/sukhumvit for 10 yrs.  it has been going on a long time.  the only real course of action you have is to pay the money as soon as possible, unless you want to spend some time behind bars.  there are reports of people refusing and at the end of the process they end up paying a fine much lower than 40,000thb.  but they had to spend a few days (or longer) behind bars, possibly pay an attorney, see a judge, etc...  that is not a process i want to go through and would pay 40,000thb to avoid.

 

i always use the overhead walkways at the asoke/sukhumvit intersection.  that avoids being 'selected' as a pedestrian.  i also never let a taxi take me home using that stretch of road. 

[atyclb]

what about those who arrive from holland where marijuana is legal or from cambodia where many pizza restaurants add it as an ingredient.

 

testing positive in of itself is not evidence of use in thailand.

 

 

imo you need not look suspicious at all for police to stop you at their extortion points.

 

also according to my thai friends it is 100% legal to videotape police and many thais do and have cameras rolling in their cars all the time. this discourages police from hanky panky

[smotherb]

11 hours ago, IsaanFam said:

How much did you pay?

 

Why not contact a lawyer? I mean, if you are keen enough to pay 40,000 THB or whatever the amount was, why not hire a lawyer and ask him for his advice and pay some money and then ask him if you can pay him double that in case the police stops you for a urine test you can call him. If it's a Sino-Thai lawyer with pictures of his papa high up the wall as a judge or whatever, it would be really possible that you can call him at the next event and get some real help. Only for the affluent of course who can pay 40k for such an offence.

 

In short, better call Saul. 

And, what is to keep Saul from exhorting more money than the police?  The point is false charges and corruption; and the farang is well down the pecking order

[buick]

9 minutes ago, atyclb said:

testing positive in of itself is not evidence of use in thailand.

the police running the checkpoints at asoke/sukhumvit and rama IV/asoke do not care about this.  they will take you to jail.  you may end up paying a 2,000thb fine but you'll lose a week of your life.

 

9 minutes ago, atyclb said:

imo you need not look suspicious at all for police to stop you at their extortion points.

if you are not thai, you will be stopped.  i've watched the checkpoints from the overhead walkways dozens of times.  they only stop taxis with non thais.  if a non thai happens to stroll by the checkpoint, they might get checked.  it has nothing to do with looking suspicious.  you are a foreigner and assumed to have money ready to pay.

 

10 minutes ago, atyclb said:

also according to my thai friends it is 100% legal to videotape police and many thais do and have cameras rolling in their cars all the time. this discourages police from hanky panky

the police running these checkpoints don't follow the law so advice on what is legal won't help in this situation.  if you start to argue with the police at these two checkpoints, you are likely to end up in jail.

[atyclb]

23 minutes ago, buick said:

the police running the checkpoints at asoke/sukhumvit and rama IV/asoke do not care about this.  they will take you to jail.  you may end up paying a 2,000thb fine but you'll lose a week of your life.

 

if you are not thai, you will be stopped.  i've watched the checkpoints from the overhead walkways dozens of times.  they only stop taxis with non thais.  if a non thai happens to stroll by the checkpoint, they might get checked.  it has nothing to do with looking suspicious.  you are a foreigner and assumed to have money ready to pay.

 

the police running these checkpoints don't follow the law so advice on what is legal won't help in this situation.  if you start to argue with the police at these two checkpoints, you are likely to end up in jail.

 

 

as i recall the police harassment/shakedowns escalated after the military took control and police lost many of their money making venues

[Daveyh]

Steer clear of any confrontation with the authorities here if you can ....................... you are on a loser from the word "go'. Even if you are, in your opinion, in the right & feel you have done nothing wrong to argue is not going to improve your situation at all. State your case & stick to it. Definitely pay no money on the street if they ask too much ... a couple of hundred baht to avoid the nausea of wrangling's with locals officials elsewhere is well worth it ........ if they insist on heavy fines then opt to go to the police station. Make a full report of the incident & ask for a lawyer. Which ever way you look at it it's going to cost you money, but in cases where your misdemeanor is minor it will be cleared up quite quickly & you'll be released. You don't have many rights here I'm afraid & if you have no one who is going to tell you what they are without a "fee", hence you have the "shitty end of the stick" ........... it's a case of "dog eat dog" in most situations with authorities here! Lawyers will "skin you alive", so be careful who you use for your defense ...... everyone loves to eat, especially Thai's right? .... 555. Trust no-one .......... just try to stay out of trouble. Good luck.

[theoldgit]

13 hours ago, pr0fik said:

As I understood, it is Legal for Thai police to perform urine tests on the street. 

 

[snowgard]

Maybe this is helpfull: http://www.richardbarrow.com/2014/12/know-your-rights-if-a-policeman-stops-you-in-bangkok/

[seeallandmore]

14 hours ago, vogie said:

Maybe if you stop taking the pee, they will.

thats such a helpful comment.. not so funny when it happens to you...

[seeallandmore]

2 hours ago, buick said:

the police running the checkpoints at asoke/sukhumvit and rama IV/asoke do not care about this.  they will take you to jail.  you may end up paying a 2,000thb fine but you'll lose a week of your life.

 

if you are not thai, you will be stopped.  i've watched the checkpoints from the overhead walkways dozens of times.  they only stop taxis with non thais.  if a non thai happens to stroll by the checkpoint, they might get checked.  it has nothing to do with looking suspicious.  you are a foreigner and assumed to have money ready to pay.

 

the police running these checkpoints don't follow the law so advice on what is legal won't help in this situation.  if you start to argue with the police at these two checkpoints, you are likely to end up in jail.

Well said, this, so much online with expats trying to work out the law.. all fultile as it doesnt matter..  you are a walking ATM and you should share your large wealth, if you dont, then be prepared to get squeezed some more...

[kingstonkid]

This sounds like the same whining I heard in Canada when the police set up ride checkpoints and started taking away keys and charging people.  I was clean I had not been drinking the police had a bad tester.  I was framed.

 

I also heard the old they are just trying to make their quota and pulling and charging anyone they want.

 

The bottom line is that the use of a narcotic or drug not medically provided is illegal.  Much like the ride checkpoints the cops are aware of areas that have higher than average drug use.  Therefore if one is smart you either do not do drugs at all or you stay away from the NANA area.

 

Sorry but as you admitted you did the crime.

 

Your last attempt was not "3 years ago" it was minutes ago.

 

How do you act around 10 policemen the same way you should act around 1 cop.  Yes, officer, no officer thank you, officer.

 

For a person that feels threatened or such, you can simply ask to be taken to jail.  

 

You did not have to pay the fine at all that was your choice.

[buick]

some comments related to the 'flyer' posted in post #25,

 

Section 1.2 - sufficient lighting and not be desolate.  i was stopped at asoke/rama IV at 1:30am, the only lighting was the flashlight looking through my backpack.  i would suggest that area is the most desolate of areas controlled by the thonglor station, partly because of the time (late at night).  asoke/sukhumvit is well lighted at that time of night and not desolate.

 

Section 1.3 - under the search heading, 'do not pay any amount of money to police, if asked to or not'.  with this one i crack a wry smile.  what about AFTER the search, assuming they've found something ?  as it reads in the flyer posted in post #25 it is a bit ambiguous.  i think most long term residents in thailand know it is best to offer money to the police in order to avoid any issues.  they won't ask for money, you need to offer it.  if you end up at the station and a report goes into their computer, it is too late to pay.  you will then enjoy some time in the cell at the station (hoping you have friends on the outside to bring food so you can eat).