Jomtien immigration -- tracking rumor about change in policy about freshness of income letters

[NanLaew]

21 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

...The discussion here is : is it one month or still six month.

 

 

The answer (unchanged from when it was proffered half-way through this overly long sojourn for the definitive answer on a well known Thai bureaucratic imponderable) is yes.

 

Depending on which Immigration Officer serves you on the day you submit your extension application, the embassy-issued proof of income letter or affidavit that is older than 30-days will either be accepted or denied.

 

Can we end this now?

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The answer (unchanged from when it was proffered half-way through this overly long sojourn for the definitive answer on a well known Thai bureaucratic imponderable) is yes.

 

Depending on which Immigration Officer serves you on the day you submit your extension application, the embassy-issued proof of income letter or affidavit that is older than 30-days will either be accepted or denied.

 

Can we end this now?

That's a lazy conclusion and I refuse to buy it.

Older letters have been accepted for years now at Jomtien as a GENERAL rule.

If people were shocked to have them rejected, there would by now be MANY REPORTS about that.

I read the forum.

There have been NONE.

The only one was on this thread and it was a THIRD PERSON report which can't be confirmed.

Your lazy answer may apply to some things, but I simply do not believe it applies to this specific issue.

Age of income letters accepted at Jomtien.

The overwhelming evidence is that you don't have to worry about such enforcement variations on this issue -- the older letters are almost definitely STILL GOOD.

I can't say 100 percent, of course, but it's not the same thing as your cliche, which kind of implies it wouldn't be surprising to have an older letter (under six months) rejected.

NO!

It would be surprising. 

And that said, as there was the one third person unconfirmed report, please keep the reports coming when your older letters are accepted, and of course if there is even one first person report (NONE as yet) that your older (under six month) letter is rejected based on age, by all means, report that as well. 

[tropo]

23 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

If the policy is one month i can assure you we don't need your advice we know what to do. The discussion here is : is it one month or still six month.

3

Are you sure you don't need directions to BKK?

[tropo]

6 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The answer (unchanged from when it was proffered half-way through this overly long sojourn for the definitive answer on a well known Thai bureaucratic imponderable) is yes.

 

Depending on which Immigration Officer serves you on the day you submit your extension application, the embassy-issued proof of income letter or affidavit that is older than 30-days will either be accepted or denied.

 

Can we end this now?

I'm sure it's not going to end anytime soon. JT is just shy of 100k posts - not long to go now.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

I'm sure it's not going to end anytime soon. JT is just shy of 100k posts - not long to go now.

The topic is not me or my post count.

I get no benefit from high volume posting, so it doesn't matter to me, not sure why it matters to you.

Kindly desist from personalizing your comments here.

 

[Jingthing]

59 minutes ago, tropo said:

That's what he does. He doesn't even use the income letter for his extensions, but claims he wants to know in case he decides to in the future. Bizarre. 

 

 

The topic is the topic. It's not an invitation for your personally abusive posts and insults.

I became interested in this topic because I saw the birth of a major (probably FALSE) rumor on another thread and I wanted to help either crush it or confirm it.

I think a lot of progress has been made towards crushing it.

If you don't care either way about using older letters, then you aren't required to read this thread or post here.

 

In any case, kindly DESIST from your obsession with personally insulting me.

[NanLaew]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's a lazy conclusion and I refuse to buy it.

Older letters have been accepted for years now at Jomtien as a GENERAL rule.

If people were shocked to have them rejected, there would by now be MANY REPORTS about that.

I read the forum.

There have been NONE.

The only one was on this thread and it was a THIRD PERSON report which can't be confirmed.

Your lazy answer may apply to some things, but I simply do not believe it applies to this specific issue.

Age of income letters accepted at Jomtien.

The overwhelming evidence is that you don't have to worry about such enforcement variations on this issues -- the older letters are almost definitely STILL GOOD.

I can't say 100 percent, of course, but it's not the same thing as your cliche, which kind of implies it wouldn't be surprising to have an older letter (under six months) rejected.

NO!

It would be surprising. 

What part of "overly long sojourn for the definitive answer on a well known Thai bureaucratic imponderable" is too hard to comprehend?

 

You are seeking a definitive answer when there isn't one and probably never will be one as long as IO's can't be bothered to learn their own rules.

 

You've made salient points about NOT asking the front-desk assistants.

 

At the same time you can discount what anyone has been told directly to their face by their "IO of the day" as there is no consistency on any rule enforcement even between shifts in the same office.

 

Whether what Joe Blow gets told today is the same as Hansel got told last month or Gretel gets told next week, it is not any sort of guarantee of what the real policy is. One would be a fool to think that their 6 month-old affidavit obtained so easily via the outreach is going to be automatically accepted.

 

When the UK government binned the Pattaya Consular office, there was a similar wailing and gnashing of teeth by those noisome Brits that suddenly had to find out how to get to their embassy in Bangkok. Then they had to start making appointments before going there. Now they have to do the whole enchilada online and EMS... no need to attend the Embassy at all.

 

Since the US outreaches are being reduced in frequency, when it comes to 'foreign office' budgets, the US economic wind is obviously blowing the same way. To avoid stress, those US long-term stayers that have relied on the outreach to get their letters better get used to the online appointment system and traveling to Bangkok to get the affidavit instead.

 

Or, you can stress for the next 6 months about the outreach affidavit possibly NOT being accepted and then really stamp BOTH your feet and rail at the IO and demand the truth when the inevitability of rejection prevails and your extension is denied because one was basically too lazy to use the alternative method in the first place.

Edited June 3, 2018 by NanLaew

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

What part of "overly long sojourn for the definitive answer on a well known Thai bureaucratic imponderable" is too hard to comprehend?

 

You are seeking a definitive answer when there isn't one and probably never will be one as long as IO's can't be bothered to learn their own rules.

 

You've made salient points about NOT asking the front-desk assistants.

 

At the same time you can discount what anyone has been told directly to their face by their "IO of the day" as there is no consistency on any rule enforcement even between shifts in the same office.

 

Whether what Joe Blow gets told today is the same as Hansel got told last month or Gretel gets told next week, it is not any sort of guarantee of what the real policy is. One would be a fool to think that their 6 month-old affidavit obtained so easily via the outreach is going to be automatically accepted.

 

When the UK government binned the Pattaya Consular office, there was a similar wailing and gnashing of teeth by those noisome Brits that suddenly had to find out how to get to their embassy in bangkok. Then they had to start making appointments before going there. Now they have to do the whole enchilada online and EMS... no need to attend the Embassy at all.

 

Since the US outreaches are being reduced in frequency, the US economic wind is obviously blowing the same way. To avoid stress, those US long-term stayers that have relied on the outreach to get their letters better get used to traveling to Bangkok to get the affidavit instead.

Is it difficult to get an appointment at the US Embassy within a month of requiring the income letter for an extension? Going by all the wailing here, perhaps it is. They have a year to prepare for it.

Edited June 3, 2018 by tropo

[Thailand J]

31 minutes ago, tropo said:

Are you sure you don't need directions to BKK?

Thank you. we already have more then one trip reports on this thread.

but if you insist please go ahead.

[Thailand J]

9 minutes ago, tropo said:

Is it difficult to get an appointment at the US Embassy within a month of requiring the income letter for an extension? Going by all the wailing here, perhaps it is. They have a year to prepare for it.

didn;t I said we dont need your advice if the requirement is one month?

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

didn;t I said we dont need your advice if the requirement is one month?

But you don't know 100% for sure that the 1-month 'rule' will apply to you on your chosen day do you?

 

Stress monkeys the lot of 'em.

[tropo]

3 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

didn;t I said we dont need your advice if the requirement is one month?

You don't need directions to BKK? 

[tropo]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

But you don't know 100% for sure that the 1-month 'rule' will apply to you on your chosen day do you?

 

Stress monkeys the lot of 'em.

They should be more concerned about whether or not the Pattaya Outreach Program will continue.

[Thailand J]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

You don't need directions to BKK? 

go ahead, starting from Big C Klang.

[Thailand J]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

They should be more concerned about whether or not the Pattaya Outreach Program will continue.

what else i should be more concerned about.

[tropo]

1 minute ago, Thailand J said:

what else i should be more concerned about.

Whether to take a bus or taxi?

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

What part of "overly long sojourn for the definitive answer on a well known Thai bureaucratic imponderable" is too hard to comprehend?

 

You are seeking a definitive answer when there isn't one and probably never will be one as long as IO's can't be bothered to learn their own rules.

 

You've made salient points about NOT asking the front-desk assistants.

 

At the same time you can discount what anyone has been told directly to their face by their "IO of the day" as there is no consistency on any rule enforcement even between shifts in the same office.

 

Whether what Joe Blow gets told today is the same as Hansel got told last month or Gretel gets told next week, it is not any sort of guarantee of what the real policy is. One would be a fool to think that their 6 month-old affidavit obtained so easily via the outreach is going to be automatically accepted.

 

When the UK government binned the Pattaya Consular office, there was a similar wailing and gnashing of teeth by those noisome Brits that suddenly had to find out how to get to their embassy in Bangkok. Then they had to start making appointments before going there. Now they have to do the whole enchilada online and EMS... no need to attend the Embassy at all.

 

Since the US outreaches are being reduced in frequency, when it comes to 'foreign office' budgets, the US economic wind is obviously blowing the same way. To avoid stress, those US long-term stayers that have relied on the outreach to get their letters better get used to the online appointment system and traveling to Bangkok to get the affidavit instead.

 

Or, you can stress for the next 6 months about the outreach affidavit possibly NOT being accepted and then really stamp BOTH your feet and rail at the IO and demand the truth when the inevitability of rejection prevails and your extension is denied because one was basically too lazy to use the alternative method in the first place.

I get where you're coming from but I'm still not buying it.

It's basically about probabilities. Risk vs. reward.

My view now is that the odds an older letter will be accepted are about 99 percent. That's my subjective conclusion based on the gathered evidence.

Others may view it different.

You seem to be suggesting it's totally random, depending on whether the officer doesn't like the look on the applicant's face or forgot their coffee that morning.

I am not buying it. Not at all.  

Many people have been using these older letters for years now and still not even ONE confirmed first person report of any denial based on that either on this thread or the forum in general (which I read and would have definitely REMEMBERED such a report). 

So I agree nothing is 100 percent.

But most rational people are willing accept more like 99 percent chance of things being OK if they can avoid the inconvenience of the embassy trip.

A minority of people need everything to be 100 percent. 

We're not going to get 100 percent on this or anything, but people can make their own risk/reward decisions based on the best available information.

At this point in time, I think it's fair to conclude there is very little risk in showing up with an older (under 6 month) letter.

That's what I've concluded anyway. 

Cheers.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

A post with a off topic gif image has been removed.

[bkk6060]

36 minutes ago, tropo said:

Is it difficult to get an appointment at the US Embassy within a month of requiring the income letter for an extension? Going by all the wailing here, perhaps it is. They have a year to prepare for it.

No it is not.

This is the calendar for June.

[Thailand J]

10 minutes ago, tropo said:

Whether to take a bus or taxi?

I usually take my car to the Pattaya Outreach.

I am going to stop acting like a child with you. bye

[glegolo]

It clearly shows in also this thread, that the american solution to their embassy-poblem, with booking appointments, and all that stuff that make life difficult to be an american here in Thailand, you turn to the thai immigration and change their laws and requirements INSTEAD of pressing their own embassy to adapt in a better way to service their own people....

 

The only country where I hear all this complaining is from the americans, not from the others.. OK brits to som small extent....

 

So change yor own embassy and change your own rules, I dont wish to read more about your own paqrticular problems, where you yourself dont give a shit about other people and countries problem...only your own..... tiresome....

 

glegolo

Edited June 3, 2018 by glegolo

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, glegolo said:

It clearly shows in also this thread, that the american solution to their embassy-poblem, with booking appointments, and all that stuff that make life difficult to be an american here in Thailand turn to the immigration and change their laws and requirements INSTEAD of pressing their own embassy to adapt in a better way to service their own people....

 

The only country where I hear all this complaining is from the americans, not from the others.. OK brits to som small extent....

 

So change yor own embassy and change your own rules, I dont wish to read more about your own paqrticular problems, where you yourself dont give a shit about other people and countries problem...only your own..... tiresome....

 

glegolo

This thread isn't about hostility and resentment towards the USA and American people. Yet that seems to be your weird focus on these visa topics. You don't want to read it?  don't read it!

 

I will also add citizens of any country typically have very little power indeed on their embassy's specific policies. They can lobby and make suggestions but ultimately the power is with the authorities, generally from a centralized place back in the home countries anyway. 

[glegolo]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This thread isn't about hostility and resentment towards the USA and American people. Yet that seems to be your weird focus on these visa topics. You don't want to read it? Bloody don't read it!

 

I will also add citizens of any country typically have very little power indeed on their embassy's specific policies. They can lobby and make suggestions but ultimately the power is with the authorities, generally from a centralized place back in the home countries anyway. 

So why is there HUGE LOTS of posts about your embassy then??????????????? I have not written those posts... That is WHY I reacted and posted what you quoted....

 

This forum is not alone an american forum, it is a forum for english-spoken people of all kind of shape and forms,, remember that...

 

glegolo

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post meant to deflect the topic has been removed.

[cyberfarang]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

OK, sorry, but I'm going to challenge you about this now.

Because it still doesn't make any sense that they changed this rule.

You say it was a friend.

Is it possible that didn't fully understand the details about what he reported?

After all, this is not YOUR report. It's another person.

Is that person a member here?

Can you ask them to post here about that incident?

This is important for a lot of people.

Perhaps there were unusual circumstances with his specific application that were involved in their demand?

My only goal here is to get to the TRUTH about the rules there, in a definitive way. Because many people need to know. 

Challenge me! Are you serious?

 

My Friend and I occasionally communicate on Line. Can`t remember exactly how, but we started talking about immigration and about how more difficult it becomes each year and that`s how the subject of his income letter came about. All I know is it was concerning his retirement extension and he was told it was too early. I just answered your question and besides that me living in Chiang Mai, I don`t give a rat`s and certainly won`t be interrogating my friend on your behalf.

 

As I said; if you`re worried about this; go in there and ask for yourself. what`s your problem with doing that?

 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by cyberfarang

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

It clearly shows in also this thread, that the american solution to their embassy-poblem, with booking appointments, and all that stuff that make life difficult to be an american here in Thailand,

 

glegolo

I guess I missed something, but where do you get that?

Picking up a new passport at the US embassy is no appointment just come in the morning.

The other services are by appt, of course there are 1000's of people who want these services. I like the idea of making an appt. I know I will be serviced at that time.

I have always had good experiences at the BKK embassy.  Friendly people and efficient service. absolutely no problem.

Those that complain probably do not have their act together, cannot figure out dates or requirements of Thailand, so they blame it on the US??.

It seems their issue, not the US embassy.

Everything in Thailand seems very easy I think.  But I meet the requirements.

If you struggle with this, maybe think about another country.

OMG, I hear Cambodia is fantastic..

 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by bkk6060

[tropo]

2 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

 As I said; if you`re worried about this; go in there and ask for yourself. what`s your problem with doing that?

 

 

 

Probably short of time.

[tropo]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I guess I missed something, but where do you get that?

Picking up a new passport at the US embassy is no appointment just come in the morning.

The other services are by appt, of course there are 1000's of people who want these services. I like the idea of making an appt. I know I will be serviced at that time.

I have always had good experiences at the BKK embassy.  Friendly people and efficient service. absolutely no problem.

Those that complain probably do not have their act together, cannot figure out dates or requirements of Thailand, so they blame it on the US??.

It seems their issue, not the US embassy.

1

Even with a congested appointment calendar, people know a year in advance when they will require the letter. It would seem booking ahead is a challenge for some.

Edited June 3, 2018 by tropo

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

Even with a congested appointment calendar, people know a year in advance when they will require the letter. It would seem booking ahead is a challenge for some.

HAHA.  Yes many busy Falang here. ?

 

PS:  The US embassy outreach will come to Pattaya next Wednesday, June 6 ,for all that are busy and cannot get to BKK.

[tropo]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

HAHA.  Yes many busy Falang here. ?

 

PS:  The US embassy outreach will come to Pattaya next Wednesday, June 6 ,for all that are busy and cannot get to BKK.

I only make it to BKK once a year because I'm so busy LOL. That's when I get my income letter and make a mini-vacation out of it and stay several nights.