Getting 'Extension' for 5yr old son to piggyback my retirement visa..easy/cheap?

[Rolanddrums]

Hi, Im now on my second retirement visa. ( Took just an hour  at 3 counters to get new visa + multi re-entry+ 90 day stamp...cost 5700 baht  btw thanks to UJ and others).

I been in Thailand most of this time with my 5 year old son . Mum is Thai ( Long gone/no contact) he was born in UK , UK passport, entered Thailand about a year ago with me on tourist 30 day visa. He's not been back to UK since . He goes to an  International school here in Pattaya.  Now I know he should have a visa, or extension of some sort to stay, I also know is no big deal for such a youngster except maybe an overstay stamp . Please no lectures here though.

I'm now considering getting him a piggy back extension on my visa if possible and straightforward. He has UK birth certificate. I did get that stamped by Royal Thai embassy in London and Apostille attached a year or so ago if that helps.  I own my own condo , son has same family name as me.These are my questions :-

1) To get this 'piggyback' , what do I need , whats involved, can I do it myself all in Jomtien in a day or so?

2) Am I opening a can of worms when they realize hes been here over a year already, or is it not a problem?

3) How much money does it cost?

4) If I DONT get him this piggyback , are there any problems either at UK Airport or coming back into Thailand ?  Don't want to be stranded that's for sure. ...cheers

Edited June 2, 2018 by Rolanddrums

[ubonjoe]

1. He will first need a single entry non-o visa from a nearby embassy or consulate to apply for an extension of stay as your son based upon your extension.

2. No

3. It cost 2000 baht for the non-o visa and then 1900 baht for the extension.

4. No

   But when leaving Thailand there will be delay while they do the overstay stamp. 

Before applying for the extension his UK birth certificate will need to be legalized. Procedure is here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/712469/Legalising_sig_stamp_Sept_15.pdf

Was his birth registered at the Thai embassy in London. If he has a Thai birth certificate it would not have to be legalized.

[Rolanddrums]

Thanks...

1) Does that mean going to Bkk , I live in Pattaya?

3) Nearly 4,000 baht ..not too bad ...but if in practice not really necessary?....thinking now.

 He has a UK BIRTH CERTIFICATE..It has already been legalized a year or so ago . At Milton Keynes then at Thai Embassy London.

How long typically would we be hanging around for his overstay stamp? I  will carry his 'legalized  UK BC' with me btw .

You say he needs a Visa AND an extension . Sorry to be dumb, are both these going in my passport or his?

Edited June 2, 2018 by Rolanddrums

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

1) Does that mean going to Bkk , I live in Pattaya?

No

It means leaving the country to get a single entry non-o visa. Immigration does no do visas for family members for those on extensions based upon retirement.

16 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

 He has a UK BIRTH CERTIFICATE..It has already been legalized a year or so ago . At Milton Keynes then at Thai Embassy London

That will be accepted.

17 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

How long typically would we be hanging around for his overstay stamp? I  will carry his 'legalized  UK BC' with me btw .

You say he needs a Visa AND an extension . Sorry to be dumb, are both these going in my passport or his?

How long it takes to get the overstay stamp will depend upon how busy they are. It normally should not take more than 15 minutes.

He will need the non-o visa entry to apply for the extension of stay.

It will be done in his passport.

[Rolanddrums]

Great , I think the 15 minutes waiting for overstay stamp ( As long no other drama expected) is the option I will choose, based on the amount of faffing around (& cost) to do properly. ...thanks again UJ.

I assume getting education visa for him would be similar procedure /cost.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Great , I think the 15 minutes waiting for overstay stamp ( As long no other drama expected) is the option I will choose, based on the amount of faffing around (& cost) to do properly. ...thanks again UJ.

I assume getting education visa for him would be similar procedure /cost.

He could get do a non immigrant visa application at immigration based upon qualifying for a extension of stay based upon attending school (2000 baht fee). Then apply for the extension of stay.

He would have to leave and re-enter the country to clear the overstay before he could apply for the visa.

Another option if you were able to prove his Thai nationality he could get a one year extension for any type of entry (including a visa exempt entry). HIs birth certificate with his mothers name on it and proof she is Thai would be enough.

[jackdd]

Find his mum and get him his Thai citizenship

He grows up in Thailand, currently having citizenship is not important, but when he is an adult he will probably stay in Thailand and by not getting him his Thai citizenship you are just putting hurdles in his way.

[BritTim]

44 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Find his mum and get him his Thai citizenship

He grows up in Thailand, currently having citizenship is not important, but when he is an adult he will probably stay in Thailand and by not getting him his Thai citizenship you are just putting hurdles in his way.

I am not disagreeing with you, but Thai citizenship is a double edged sword. It could mean that he will need to do national service in the Thai army once he passes the age of 20. Further, a Thai minor might have difficulty leaving Thailand without the permission of the boy's mother. What might be better is to collect all the documentation that would be needed to prove Thai citizenship (the earlier this is done, the easier it is likely to be) but hold back on the final application until there is a compelling need.

[HHTel]

My daughter (half Thai/English) came into Thailand on her Thai birth certificate. (no passport)  Once through immigration, registered her on a Tabian Bahn and that was it.  Got her Thai and UK passport when she was older and never had any problems.  Her Thai mother was around which may have made a difference.

If his mother is still around, then hopefully she can help with a Thai birth certificate then it's plain sailing.  No need for a visa.  He's Thai.

Edited June 2, 2018 by HHTel
correction

[Rolanddrums]

I'm certainly interested in UJ's second option on above post . Yes it has his (Thai) mums name on UK birth certificate ,it also confirms her place of birth as Thailand. (good).  Ok so he is ' visa exempt'  because of this , but he needs just an extension? So how long  does it take/ how much?  Is anything other than his UK passport & UK BC required? Can everything be done at Jomtien without going out the Country? Is his 'overstay' no longer an issue doing it this way?..Thanks.

ps Im not interested in Thai citizenship tbh , also any contact with his mum is not desirable, but thanks for the suggestions.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Rolanddrums

[jackdd]

If a Thai citizen is in Thailand on a foreign passport he also needs a visa / extension of stay to be legal (for your 5 year old son obviously not really a problem because he there are no legal consequences for him)

If he gets his Thai citizenship and a Thai passport it should be possible to just ignore the UK passport and the next time he leaves Thailand he just uses the Thai passport. In the future he does then always use his Thai passport when entering / leaving Thailand (never show the UK passport to an IO and also never mention that he has one) and his UK passport for entering / leaving the UK.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

I'm certainly interested in UJ's second option on above post . Yes it has his (Thai) mums name on UK birth certificate ,it also confirms her place of birth as Thailand. (good).  Ok so he is ' visa exempt'  because of this , but he needs just an extension? So how long  does it take/ how much?  Is anything other than his UK passport & UK BC required? Can everything be done at Jomtien without going out the Country? Is his 'overstay' no longer an issue doing it this way?..Thanks.

You will probably need at least a copy of her house book registry and/or her Thai ID or her Thai passport to prove she is Thai.

Before applying for the extension he would have to leave the country to clear his current overstay and get a new visa exempt entry. A immigration office would not be able to clear the overstay.

The fee will be 1900 baht for the extension.

 

[Rolanddrums]

All I can get is what I have already . Mum has a Thai name, its confirmed on UK birth certificate her place of birth is Thailand , and that's it. Ooh apart from I did have his BC legalized at Thai Embassy in London.

No copies of her ID card or house book...maybe is a dead end for me?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Rolanddrums said:

All I can get is what I have already . Mum has a Thai name, its confirmed on UK birth certificate her place of birth is Thailand , and that's it. Ooh apart from I did have his BC legalized at Thai Embassy in London.

No copies of her ID card or house book...maybe is a dead end for me?

You could try to do it without the other documents. Best to check before leaving and re-entering the country.

If you have her ID card number on anything you might be able to proof she is Thai at a Amphoe.

[Rolanddrums]

Nothing else tbh, oh I have UK marriage cert with her name on but that's it . I think I'll just continue with overstay . Hes only 5 . Hopefully no issue bringing him back to Thailand after 2 weeks in UK .Again will be on std 30 day tourist visa, but will probably stay 1-2 years again before his next UK visit after that.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Rolanddrums

[jackdd]

Thai names are way more unique than farang names. So if you have her name and know about how old she is it should be no big deal for a police officer to find her if you offer a tip ?

Then you can go to the Amphoe where she is registered and for another tip you will probably get a copy of her house registration there. (Or you just contact her directly, because afaik she has to give her OK before a Thai passport is issued to your son, but of course this might give her the idea to try to extort money from you)

Edited June 2, 2018 by jackdd

[Rolanddrums]

Hi don't want to go to KK to be honest, 2 km to Jomtien enough for me. I don't want Thai passport or citizen ship either...Oh I  have still got an old Thai passport of his when he was 1 year old . I'm worried that showing this is opening a whole new can of worms so wont be doing that. Oh I remember her date of birth its 6/6/6 ..ooh no sorry that's the devil ..its 8/8/88.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Rolanddrums

[baansgr]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

Find his mum and get him his Thai citizenship

He grows up in Thailand, currently having citizenship is not important, but when he is an adult he will probably stay in Thailand and by not getting him his Thai citizenship you are just putting hurdles in his way.

I would strongly  advise against that,  he is currently  a UK citizen. If the Mother reappears, as a Thai citizen she would have parental control and could take his son away at a whim.  Seriously,  foreign fathers have very little to no rights over half Thai kids.  

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Hi don't want to go to KK to be honest, 2 km to Jomtien enough for me. I don't want Thai passport or citizen ship either...Oh I  have still got an old Thai passport of his when he was 1 year old . I'm worried that showing this is opening a whole new can of worms so wont be doing that. Oh I remember her date of birth its 6/6/6 ..ooh no sorry that's the devil ..its 8/8/88.

No problem to show his old passport. Many Thais have used one to prove Thai citizenship when applying for the extension because they entered on another passport.

If he has a passport he is already has Thai citizenship and that proves it. Do you have his Thai birth certificate?

[Rolanddrums]

5 minutes ago, baansgr said:

I would strongly  advise against that,  he is currently  a UK citizen. If the Mother reappears, as a Thai citizen she would have parental control and could take his son away at a whim.  Seriously,  foreign fathers have very little to no rights over half Thai kids.  

Yes I agree, that's why I want to keep everything as a UK citizen . I have had custody of him nearly 2 years . I want it to stay that way. If it went to court because she wanted him (UK) , I think she would LOSE  as the best interest of the child is No 1 factor . I also support him pay & for everything ( No christmas/ birthday presents and not a penny to help in 2 years).  . 

[baansgr]

2 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Yes I agree, that's why I want to keep everything as a UK citizen . I have had custody of him nearly 2 years . I want it to stay that way. If it went to court because she wanted him (UK) , I think she would LOSE  as the best interest of the child is No 1 factor . I also support him pay & for everything ( No christmas/ birthday presents and not a penny to help in 2 years).  . 

Our posts overlapped, he is already  a Thai citizen so not sure how you stand 

[Rolanddrums]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No problem to show his old passport. Many Thais have used one to prove Thai citizenship when applying for the extension because they entered on another passport.

If he has a passport he is already has Thai citizenship and that proves it. Do you have his Thai birth certificate?

Hi 'no I don't have his Thai BC , though I remember his Mum did get him one at 6 mths old . The Thai passport has had front page cut out and stuck back in, so not valid..but as proof for an extension I dont know?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

The Thai passport has had front page cut out and stuck back in, so not valid..but as proof for an extension I dont know?

It may be accepted for identification purposes and proof that he is Thai.

[baansgr]

16 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Yes I agree, that's why I want to keep everything as a UK citizen . I have had custody of him nearly 2 years . I want it to stay that way. If it went to court because she wanted him (UK) , I think she would LOSE  as the best interest of the child is No 1 factor . I also support him pay & for everything ( No christmas/ birthday presents and not a penny to help in 2 years).  . 

I don't want to derail  your thread of the original  question so you may want to start another topic asking how you stand regarding  custody. I've realised  the past few months even though I have registered joint custody, anything  regarding  the kids needs I'd card,  housebook of mother even though she is absent. That's why keeping your son as UK may be better. 

[Rolanddrums]

So to summarize, I need to take him back to UK, get an overstay stamp on the way out, come back to Thailand on 30 day Tourist Visa, go down to Jomtien within 30 days with his UK passport and legalised UK BC + old/void Thai PP as proof of being Thai , hand over 2000 baht and he gets a 12 mth extension in his passport ( No Visa required) yes? ...Plus he can come in/out Thailand back to UK with me 2 or 3 times a year ?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Rolanddrums said:

So to summarize, I need to take him back to UK, get an overstay stamp on the way out, come back to Thailand on 30 day Tourist Visa, go down to Jomtien within 30 days with his UK passport and legalised UK BC + old/void Thai PP as proof of being Thai , hand over 2000 baht and he gets a 12 mth extension in his passport ( No Visa required) yes? ...Plus he can come in/out Thailand back to UK with me 2 or 3 times a year ?

You would not have to the UK for him to get a visa exempt entry when he returns. All he needs to do is leave and re-enter the country.

The fee would be 1900 baht for the one year extension of stay with a visa exempt entry.

His birth certificate and old passport should be enough to prove his Thai nationality.

You would need to get him a re-entry permit if you want to take him on trips out of the country. A single re-entry is 1000 baht and a multiple 3800 baht.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

If a Thai citizen is in Thailand on a foreign passport he also needs a visa / extension of stay to be legal (for your 5 year old son obviously not really a problem because he there are no legal consequences for him)

If he gets his Thai citizenship and a Thai passport it should be possible to just ignore the UK passport and the next time he leaves Thailand he just uses the Thai passport. In the future he does then always use his Thai passport when entering / leaving Thailand (never show the UK passport to an IO and also never mention that he has one) and his UK passport for entering / leaving the UK.

I would advice him to never go down the route of obtaining a Thai passport for his son,in order that he would be able to enter Thailand without the need for a visa. If he were,it would possible open a whole can of worms,e.g. Problems at the airport when trying to depart the country. It would be possible for his ex, to obtain a ruling banning him from taking the child out of the country. She could try and gain custody or joint custody.

[Rolanddrums]

2 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I would advice him to never go down the route of obtaining a Thai passport for his son,in order that he would be able to enter Thailand without the need for a visa. If he were,it would possible open a whole can of worms,e.g. Problems at the airport when trying to depart the country. It would be possible for his ex, to obtain a ruling banning him from taking the child out of the country. She could try and gain custody or joint custody.

Agreed , Im not going this route for ALL the reasons you mention

 

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You would not have to the UK for him to get a visa exempt entry when he returns. All he needs to do is leave and re-enter the country.

The fee would be 1900 baht for the one year extension of stay with a visa exempt entry.

His birth certificate and old passport should be enough to prove his Thai nationality.

You would need to get him a re-entry permit if you want to take him on trips out of the country. A single re-entry is 1000 baht and a multiple 3800 baht.

Understood & thank you, but surely this ' Proof as his Thai Nationality' as you put could present more of a risk if his mum decides ( Not likely I think ..but you never know) to try and take custody of him . 

[BritTim]

34 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Understood & thank you, but surely this ' Proof as his Thai Nationality' as you put could present more of a risk if his mum decides ( Not likely I think ..but you never know) to try and take custody of him . 

Just to be clear, there are at least two ways of getting your son an extension of stay:

• as a Thai, just with proof of Thai nationality, on any type of permission to stay;
• as your dependent, in which case you need to apply for a Non O visa in, say, Vientiane, and subsequently apply for an extension towards the end of the 90 days your son receives entering on the Non O.

If you do not want to raise possible issues due to the Thai nationality, you need to go the dependent route, albeit that is a bit more involved.

[Rolanddrums]

Yes agreed. I think I will just carry on with 30 day tourist visas picking up an overstay stamp and 15 mins hanging around on the way out each time . Typically we will go out twice a year for about 10-14 days in UK each time . Unless rules change we will continue this way for next few years ( But not over 13-14 years old) . Thank you  again to everyone in this thread.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Rolanddrums