Reality and the Denial of Sex Work in Thailand

[jaltsc]

5 hours ago, darksidedog said:

The reality is that Thailand is in denial of just about anything and everything that doesn't present it in a shining light. Any global report that shows Thailand negatively is dismissed as being out of date or using parameters the Thais disagree with. Thais live in a fictional world, fed lies and propaganda, and are in truth, probably not emotionally equipped to deal with reality.

In addition to reality, they are not emotionally equipped to deal with alcohol and other drugs either . Can't paint a grimmer picture than that. 

[Rumbleg]

But when you "bar fine" a girl you are only buying her time. What you do, and how many times you do it back in the privacy of your hotel room is up to the two of you.

[ratcatcher]

1 minute ago, Rumbleg said:

But when you "bar fine" a girl you are only buying her time. What you do, and how many times you do it back in the privacy of your hotel room is up to the two of you.

I think many guys think the bar fine is to compensate the bar owner for the absence of the girl from the workplace, after all, she's usually receiving a salary of some sort.

The amount given to the woman by the punter, after the deed is done, is sometimes regarded  as a payment for her leaving the premises. 

[Rumbleg]

Just now, ratcatcher said:

I think many guys think the bar fine is to compensate the bar owner for the absence of the girl from the workplace, after all, she's usually receiving a salary of some sort.

The amount given to the woman by the punter, after the deed is done, is sometimes regarded  as a payment for her leaving the premises. 

I do realize that. I was just lazy in my typing and a bar fine. What you pay her is to compensate her for her time. The bar fine is to compensate the bar for loosing a drink server/ ashtray cleaner.

[Mac98]

In America many states teach abstinence as the only option for all before marriage, just like I was taught in Catholic school. Now there's a real example of dangerous denial!

[kingstonkid]

There3 are many pros and cons to prostitution.  This is fought in every country in the world.  Muslim countries will never admit it but I know for sure that there is a thriving market in Pakistan in every major city.

In western cities, they try to eradicate it but the pros just move to a different street.  That is why they go after the johns.

 

Nevada is one of the few places in the world that i think has it right.  It is legal but only in certain areas.  They have set up chicken ranches that serve every person's desire and also very much protect the girl.

 

Look at the soapy places in fact they are a bit like a ranch in tht everything is done under the one roof and the girls are protected as well as the customers.

 

Legalizing is not popular in most countries so we really can not blame Thais for it even though it is so blatant here.

 

I wonder how many bar girls work in nice offices that pay a wage that fluctuates when the girls have to send money home.

 

 

 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Mac98 said:

In America....................

Who cares , this thread isnt about America

[Sir Dude]

The duality of this situation is funny. They deny it exists really and want to crack down on it, but won't decriminalize it, because they are conservative prudes basically...but are quite happy to turn a blind eye but deny so many Thais that are breadwinners for their families all sorts of benefits basically due to a grossly unfair and discriminating society. This in turn enables a large number of questionable types, including the police, get to make shameful amounts of money for its operation. Very cynical and screwed up.

 

 

[Artisi]

8 hours ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

I always laugh when Thais deny things that are blatantly real. I often wonder what would happen if the "flat earth" theory ever got introduced here.

It would only be accepted here if Thailand was the hub of flat earth. 

[IAMHERE]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Who cares , this thread isnt about America

Thread is about prostitution, denial, hypocrisy, and whores. Sounds Americanish enough, certainly to a very many TV posters/readers.

[dorchester]

This reminds me of a huge billboard video I saw in jomtiem.the bee gees were singing,the look on my girlfriends face was priceless.seeing is believing.

[Enzian]

I'm impressed by the argument that Thailand is a profoundly hierarchical society and that there is an invisible line below which the people there are considered by the elite to be disposable and not worthy of human rights. This is ingrained and never articulated.

[whaleboneman]

15 hours ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

I always laugh when Thais deny things that are blatantly real. I often wonder what would happen if the "flat earth" theory ever got introduced here.

I'm thinking that if you started asking Thai people if the earth was flat, you may find that the theory is alive and well here.

[cyberfarang]

I don`t believe Thailand is any longer the biggest brothel in the World.

 

I`ve been here a long time and whereas years ago there were brothels and ladyhouses in abundance, there days most have been shut down. Travel North from Bangkok to anywhere up country and there is virtually nothing.

 

Also taking into consideration that most of the Thai sex industry is geared for Thai clientele, that westerners hardly see or know anything about. It`s like 2 parallel Universes, there is a flourishing sex industry in Thailand, but these days is operating online, Thai freelance and sideline girls, mostly off limits to Farangs.

[Thechook]

It's ilegal but mention Thailand anywhere in the world and the first thing anyone thinks of is prostitutes.  I don't think Thailand is known for anything else but sex and they have built the country on it.

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, Thechook said:

It's ilegal but mention Thailand anywhere in the world and the first thing anyone thinks of is prostitutes.  I don't think Thailand is known for anything else but sex and they have built the country on it.

Indeed, Longman dictionary got in trouble 25 years ago when it described Bangkok as a city known for its Buddhist temples and as 'a place where there are a lot of prostitutes'.

[kannot]

19 hours ago, darksidedog said:

The reality is that Thailand is in denial of just about anything and everything that doesn't present it in a shining light. Any global report that shows Thailand negatively is dismissed as being out of date or using parameters the Thais disagree with. Thais live in a fictional world, fed lies and propaganda, and are in truth, probably not emotionally equipped to deal with reality.

And that fictional world goes right to the top and why they have certain laws against it. Carefully  honed over the last 70 odd years

[HerbalEd]

15 hours ago, jaltsc said:

In addition to reality, they are not emotionally equipped to deal with alcohol and other drugs either . Can't paint a grimmer picture than that. 

Based upon the many terrible stories I often read here in TV.com, I'd say many farangs also aren't "emotionally equipped to deal with alcohol ..." Ditto for their ability to deal with Thai women. 5555

[HerbalEd]

14 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

I think many guys think the bar fine is to compensate the bar owner for the absence of the girl from the workplace, after all, she's usually receiving a salary of some sort.

The amount given to the woman by the punter, after the deed is done, is sometimes regarded  as a payment for her leaving the premises. 

The primary purpose of the bar fine -- of which the bar-fined girl gets a cut -- is to generate more income for the bar. Also, the money a customer gives the girl is for her sexual services -- not "for her leaving the premises."

[simoh1490]

3 hours ago, Thechook said:

It's ilegal but mention Thailand anywhere in the world and the first thing anyone thinks of is prostitutes.  I don't think Thailand is known for anything else but sex and they have built the country on it.

How remarkable you think prostitution is the first thing that people globally would think of, not elephants, not food, not temples, not the islands, not beaches, not even corruption, hot weather or road traffic deaths, but prostitution!

 

Even more remarkable is you think the success of the country has been built on prostitution, not on trade and exports, not on tourism but on prostitution!

 

I'm guessing you live in Pattaya.

 

[simoh1490]

20 hours ago, darksidedog said:

The reality is that Thailand is in denial of just about anything and everything that doesn't present it in a shining light. Any global report that shows Thailand negatively is dismissed as being out of date or using parameters the Thais disagree with. Thais live in a fictional world, fed lies and propaganda, and are in truth, probably not emotionally equipped to deal with reality.

Wow, generalise much! Were things not slightly different I'd be strongly inclined to report this post as undue Thai bashing and have the moderators delete it!

[gk10002000]

I support consenting informed free willed adults doing just about anything they want together.  As with most things, of course there can be exploitation, corruption and other bad things.  Why isn't basic sex treated like a foot massage or an oil massage?  Physical contact between adults.

[gk10002000]

15 hours ago, Rumbleg said:

But when you "bar fine" a girl you are only buying her time. What you do, and how many times you do it back in the privacy of your hotel room is up to the two of you.

Yep.  And many end up going together for a few days or more, she helps arrange local transportation.  Heck on my very first trip one girl I met had a motor scooter and that worked out great.  She gave me the cook's tour of Pattya, some of the outlying areas, etc.  We went to Nong Nooch, I rented a speed boat and we spent a day on Ko Larn (2004),  etc.  She was a great tour guide. 

[gk10002000]

3 hours ago, Thechook said:

It's ilegal but mention Thailand anywhere in the world and the first thing anyone thinks of is prostitutes.  I don't think Thailand is known for anything else but sex and they have built the country on it.

I don' think that is entirely true, but it certainly is not rare.  I know some of my neighbors, typically the ones that have never traveled outside the USA only remember the more unusual stories they heard over the years.  One pig of a neighbor (I didn't pick him, he moved in after we did), who I happened to bump into as I was walking into my driveway cam over and the first thing he started talking about was child pedophile stuff is in Thailand.  Made me wonder what was on his mind or what he had heard.  

[HerbalEd]

17 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

How remarkable you think prostitution is the first thing that people globally would think of, not elephants, not food, not temples, not the islands, not beaches, not even corruption, hot weather or road traffic deaths, but prostitution!

 

Even more remarkable is you think the success of the country has been built on prostitution, not on trade and exports, not on tourism but on prostitution!

 

I'm guessing you live in Pattaya.

 

First or not, prostitution is indeed what many people think about when they think of Thailand. Indeed, I hear it all the time in the USA. 

 

Also, unless one spends significant time in Thailand, they most likely don't think anything about Thai corruption or high rate of traffic deaths. 

[simoh1490]

17 minutes ago, HerbalEd said:

First or not, prostitution is indeed what many people think about when they think of Thailand. Indeed, I hear it all the time in the USA. 

 

Also, unless one spends significant time in Thailand, they most likely don't think anything about Thai corruption or high rate of traffic deaths. 

Well, at least we're now looking at "many people" rather than "people globally" so I suppose that's slightly more accurate. If we wanted to make the statement even more accurate we might even say something like, "many Western males", but that doesn't have the same negative impact hence not so appealing!

 

I might argue that prostitution is more rampant in the North of Thailand than many other places in the country but not from a Westerner's perspective, it's so low key as to be almost non-existent since it's foccused on Thai's and Chinese. Pattaya on the other hand is very high profile in this area but mostly amongst Westerners and indeed it is what the city became famous for originally. I wonder if we changed the question how the answers would come out, what's the first thing you think of when you say Pattaya and then Chiang Mai, interestingly I think sex would be way down the list when people think about Chiang Mai yet the province is probably worse than Pattaya albeit not for Westerners. 

 

So what does all of that really say? It says it's a perception issue rather than a reality and even the reality changes based on your nationality and location. But either way, the activities of say 300k alleged sex workers certainly aren't responsible for building the Thai economy!

Edited June 11, 2018 by simoh1490

[ratcatcher]

1 hour ago, HerbalEd said:

The primary purpose of the bar fine -- of which the bar-fined girl gets a cut -- is to generate more income for the bar. Also, the money a customer gives the girl is for her sexual services -- not "for her leaving the premises."

Thank you for the clarification, I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject.

[trianglechoke]

The flat Earth comparision is pretty good.

Something so obvious, so blindingly easy to see That Ray Charles is maoning it is too bright, yet still some refuse to believe it.... silly <deleted> like 'Maybe a few naughty massages in Silom for tourists but that's it'................... and other nonsense LESS realistic than a flat Earth.

Brilliant 

[brling]

9 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Wow, generalise much! Were things not slightly different I'd be strongly inclined to report this post as undue Thai bashing and have the moderators delete it!

Wow, a raw nerve ?

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, brling said:

Wow, a raw nerve ?

Not really....I'm not against people who want to Thai bash just for the sake of it, goodness knows we've got loads of people who do that even though it is against forum rules - I even think we should have a small room set aside on the forum for such people so they can bash away and everyone will know what it's all about. What grates with me, however, is when people bash and try to disguise it as fact rather than the opinion it really is and that is grossly unfair to both Thai people but also to people reading the forum who have come here looking for fact. FWIW I'm also a big fan of balance in these things plus I don't care for sweeping generlaisations that tar everyone in the country with the same brush.