Rip Koh Phangan

[ParadiseLost]

I would like to ask if anyone else gets the feeling that there may as well be a bridge between Samui and KP.

I have only been around this neck of the woods a short time (3 years in April) so I am by no means a 'long term' resident, but I have definitely seen a big change in KP - and it is accelerating.

From my first visit, my opinion of Samui was just a little short of disgust. Dirty streets, greedy locals, far too many cars, badly repaired roads, etc. etc. Well, now KP is just as bad...

There seems to be a growing resentment of local Thais towards farang, whether they are visitors or long term. The roads are stupidly dangerous as there are far too many cars. Thai youngsters on motorbikes tear up and down narrow roads with no concern for others.

The police are a complete farce, mainly intent on extorting money from farangs for small misdemeanors. Bar owners (both farang and Thai) in the 'horney mile' were recently 'persuaded' to purchase Muay Thai tickets by the boxing promoter - accompanied by a policeman. There was no pretense that one had a choice...

So, a place which for me appeared to offer the true meaning of Sabaai, a full moon party for young (poor) backpackers and tranquility for most is now being destroyed by numerous property companies, multi million baht resorts and just plain greed.

There was talk a while ago about KP being designated an ECO tourist island - thats not going to happen by the looks of things.

[Mid]

what happened to the airport ??

[girlx]

hmm don't see these aspects on thong nai pan- yet!

[redrus]

With respect, is the OP only concerned with Haad Rin....!

Kho Phan Ghan, is a large island of which Haad Rin, is a very small patch....

redrus

*girls, does the mere thought of a bridge not fill you with dread....

Edited January 31, 2007 by redrus

[lowerlakeside]

to quote the eagles..............."call some place paradise

Kiss it goodbye"......................................

[snoophound]

Place has never impressed me,Overpriced below average hotels,at above average pricing ,bad roads,bad service in most of the restaurants.

Lots of French expats have made serious money on the island buying cheaply 10 or so years ago.

Now we have the Uk crowd and others moving over to the islands detriment.

Unfortunately lack of civic planning and thought towards future infrastructure demands will see Koh P in a more parlous state than Samui.

Smart thing for them to do would be to halt all development now and rethink.

I would like to ask if anyone else gets the feeling that there may as well be a bridge between Samui and KP.

I have only been around this neck of the woods a short time (3 years in April) so I am by no means a 'long term' resident, but I have definitely seen a big change in KP - and it is accelerating.

From my first visit, my opinion of Samui was just a little short of disgust. Dirty streets, greedy locals, far too many cars, badly repaired roads, etc. etc. Well, now KP is just as bad...

There seems to be a growing resentment of local Thais towards farang, whether they are visitors or long term. The roads are stupidly dangerous as there are far too many cars. Thai youngsters on motorbikes tear up and down narrow roads with no concern for others.

The police are a complete farce, mainly intent on extorting money from farangs for small misdemeanors. Bar owners (both farang and Thai) in the 'horney mile' were recently 'persuaded' to purchase Muay Thai tickets by the boxing promoter - accompanied by a policeman. There was no pretense that one had a choice...

So, a place which for me appeared to offer the true meaning of Sabaai, a full moon party for young (poor) backpackers and tranquility for most is now being destroyed by numerous property companies, multi million baht resorts and just plain greed.

There was talk a while ago about KP being designated an ECO tourist island - thats not going to happen by the looks of things.

[redrus]

Place has never impressed me,Overpriced below average hotels,at above average pricing ,bad roads,bad service in most of the restaurants.

Lots of French expats have made serious money on the island buying cheaply 10 or so years ago.

Now we have the Uk crowd and others moving over to the islands detriment.

Unfortunately lack of civic planning and thought towards future infrastructure demands will see Koh P in a more parlous state than Samui.

Smart thing for them to do would be to halt all development now and rethink.

I would like to ask if anyone else gets the feeling that there may as well be a bridge between Samui and KP.

I have only been around this neck of the woods a short time (3 years in April) so I am by no means a 'long term' resident, but I have definitely seen a big change in KP - and it is accelerating.

From my first visit, my opinion of Samui was just a little short of disgust. Dirty streets, greedy locals, far too many cars, badly repaired roads, etc. etc. Well, now KP is just as bad...

There seems to be a growing resentment of local Thais towards farang, whether they are visitors or long term. The roads are stupidly dangerous as there are far too many cars. Thai youngsters on motorbikes tear up and down narrow roads with no concern for others.

The police are a complete farce, mainly intent on extorting money from farangs for small misdemeanors. Bar owners (both farang and Thai) in the 'horney mile' were recently 'persuaded' to purchase Muay Thai tickets by the boxing promoter - accompanied by a policeman. There was no pretense that one had a choice...

So, a place which for me appeared to offer the true meaning of Sabaai, a full moon party for young (poor) backpackers and tranquility for most is now being destroyed by numerous property companies, multi million baht resorts and just plain greed.

There was talk a while ago about KP being designated an ECO tourist island - thats not going to happen by the looks of things.

Yawn.

Don't degenerate a legitimate thread by bringing up your own problems with people from other countries.

Its been done before.

redrus

[Jet Gorgon]

This is too funny. I lived in Haadrin 12 years ago and it was degenerating then, although nobody was shooting up on the street and 7-11 had not arrived. But many locals hated farang then, although nice people were everywhere too. Give poor, uneducated people a lot of money and Poof! there goes most of the culture and the neighbourhood. Haadrin will never recover. There is much hope for the small ports on the west and north coasts. SBK would know.

Ya, what news on the airport?

Time to find The Beach.

[sbk]

Not going there jet. I posted local feelings as I have heard them once before and was roundly attacked for it. Since some people didn't get the idea that I was only posting what I had heard and continually accused me of all sorts of nonsense instead of actually reading what I wrote, I don't bother anymore

[Jet Gorgon]

Not going there jet. I posted local feelings as I have heard them once before and was roundly attacked for it. Since some people didn't get the idea that I was only posting what I had heard and continually accused me of all sorts of nonsense instead of actually reading what I wrote, I don't bother anymore

No, no! I thought you could give some tips on the quieter, friendly places remaining on the island. The places that have not turned so commercial and maintain the old charm.

[girlx]

i have heard rumors that a tesco lotus is being built in thong sala- any comments sbk? i admit i would be quite happy for the convenience....

[sbk]

Tesco bought land just outside Thong Sala, no construction underway as far as I can tell. Most likely it will be a Tesco Express. Probably no sushi tho

Same goes with the proposed airport. My understanding land was purchased but proved to be unsuitable. Unlikely it will go forward any time in the near or even long term future.

OP complains about the "horny mile" which is located in Thong Sala, and IMO, part and parcel of the problems that confront Koh Phangan. You'll get no sympathy from me for the owners of the businesses in that location.

There are plenty of friendly local Thai people. However, since the population has ballooned from around 8000 local people to over 13,000 its unlikely that many of the people you'll be dealing with will be local anymore. Most of the locals I know still live their quiet lives fishing and doing coconuts.

[t.s]

Tesco bought land just outside Thong Sala, no construction underway as far as I can tell. Most likely it will be a Tesco Express. Probably no sushi tho

Same goes with the proposed airport. My understanding land was purchased but proved to be unsuitable. Unlikely it will go forward any time in the near or even long term future.

OP complains about the "horny mile" which is located in Thong Sala, and IMO, part and parcel of the problems that confront Koh Phangan. You'll get no sympathy from me for the owners of the businesses in that location.

There are plenty of friendly local Thai people. However, since the population has ballooned from around 8000 local people to over 13,000 its unlikely that many of the people you'll be dealing with will be local anymore. Most of the locals I know still live their quiet lives fishing and doing coconuts.

agreed. KPG is what you make it. if you hang in haadrin, then what you see is what you get, and you get what you deserve for the three day average stay while you are there. There are many sides to the island, and many people living there.

Chaloklam is a prime example of the real KPG, family busnesses, absoultely sweet locals etc.

Take a tour of ban nai suan and that whole jungle area between thongsala area preferred by locals. you will see village life, rice paddies and many things that have long since passed on koh samui.

anyone who says KPG is on the same track as samui hasn't gone for a long drive around the isalnd.

Many of the locals I know are still living and fishing as they always have, and they have no intention of changing anytime soon. talk to the people you call unfreindly, while still southerners, they are from the mainland: Surat, Nakhon Si tahmarrat etc. Then you have the Northern Thai and Burmese construction workers.

There is also little support amongst the locals i know there for the airport.

KPG is for boats, not planes as the thai slogans read.

[ParadiseLost]

Some interesting responses, but it seems I gave the impression this is about Hadrin...

Hadrin is a disgusting cesspool, overpopulated, overrated and has nothing like the original full moon party spirit (I am told). It's a greed fueled mess and is pretty dangerous for youngsters.

I live in ThongSala, which used to be a sleepy little town. There is still very little in the way of accommodation and/or entertainment which suits me fine. However it seems to have become the wild west for young Thais on motorbikes with no exhausts. All it needs is some effective policing.

SBK - I am a little disappointed with your comments wrt the horny mile - not all the businesses there are 'lady bars' (which I never visit) but even if you do not agree with their existence, condoning police corruption targeting these (legal) businesses is a little naive. There are 'lady bars' all over the island, and while it may be distasteful to some I disagree that they are part of the problem. Would you prefer street hookers hanging around with no protection from criminals - or police? Or do you believe there would be no prostitution without the bars?

My main beef is the unplanned, unchecked 'development' going on - do we really need 150 million baht resorts on this little island? Some will say this is progress, but I beg to differ - this island was identified as a ECO tourism site, but it is rapidly turning into another Samui. How healthy is the environment there? How many hilltops are left unblemished? What level of Eurotrash is it attracting? Money does not necessarily = quality.

How come there are so many property development companies - owned by farang? This is why land prices are rocketing; the real money is not going to the original owners - the leeches who bought this land from them are now pushing the prices to ridiculous levels. Another Samui phenomenon.

[ParadiseLost]

Chaloklam is a prime example of the real KPG, family busnesses, absoultely sweet locals etc.

Take a tour of ban nai suan and that whole jungle area between thongsala area preferred by locals. you will see village life, rice paddies and many things that have long since passed on koh samui.

anyone who says KPG is on the same track as samui hasn't gone for a long drive around the isalnd.

As I mentioned in my original posting, I have lived here for three years, and I assure you that in that time I have been to every little corner. What I will say is this - compared to 3 years ago (which is by no means a long time) the untouched nirvana you speak of is definitely harder to find.

Oh, and I happen to be married to a lovely lady from Nakhon (who never worked in a bar SBK ) - and she shares my despair. We are thinking of moving to Chaloklam...

[sbk]

ParadiseLost, I won't get into a debate about the "horny mile". I have lived here long enough to know that corruption is the name of the game and if you aren't doing anything illegal then they probably won't be asking you for a bribe.

And as for blaming all of Thong Sala's problems on the young Thai guys, open your eyes, half of the farang are driving drunk and causing accidents as well. So, frankly, policing of traffic is the issue, not who is causing the problem.

However, I agree 100% with you on the rest of your post. Change is inevitable and unfortunately, often has a negative impact. I've been beating my head against a brick wall about the changes on this island for the past 3 years and have finally given in. All it results in is a sore head.

[taxexile]

'lady bars' (which I never visit)

nobody asked whether you visit them or not , so why make a point of telling us.

[ParadiseLost]

'lady bars' (which I never visit)

nobody asked whether you visit them or not , so why make a point of telling us.

Well Tax, to answer your very provocative question in the nicest way...

Generally speaking, people tend to condemn activities they abstain from; in SBK's case, as she is a farang woman so it is understandable. In my case I am a farang male who does not frequent them, but I still keep an open mind.

Any more petty little points?

[sbk]

'lady bars' (which I never visit)

nobody asked whether you visit them or not , so why make a point of telling us.

Well Tax, to answer your very provocative question in the nicest way...

Generally speaking, people tend to condemn activities they abstain from; in SBK's case, as she is a farang woman so it is understandable. In my case I am a farang male who does not frequent them, but I still keep an open mind.

Any more petty little points?

I drink but find alcoholism destructive so that theory is shot, isn't it? . And actually, I think my exact words were "I am not going to get into a debate about it" .

[toptuan]

A couple of years ago I vacationed on the northeast coast of KP, and was "greeted" with the most surly and insolent of resort managers and staff I have ever experienced. They seemed to hate all their farang customers. For me, never again.

[ParadiseLost]

'lady bars' (which I never visit)

nobody asked whether you visit them or not , so why make a point of telling us.

Well Tax, to answer your very provocative question in the nicest way...

Generally speaking, people tend to condemn activities they abstain from; in SBK's case, as she is a farang woman so it is understandable. In my case I am a farang male who does not frequent them, but I still keep an open mind.

Any more petty little points?

I drink but find alcoholism destructive so that theory is shot, isn't it? . And actually, I think my exact words were "I am not going to get into a debate about it" .

SBK I see how you may think I was taking a cheap shot at you, but I was wanting to say that I doubt there are many women (farang or other) that would happily condone 'lady bars'. I am not 100% happy with the concept myself, but each (man) to their own. Referring to keeping an open mind really only referred to me!

However, in my defense I seem to have picked up a 'stalker' - it seems a certain thaivisa 'Titanium Member' does not like a newbie disagreeing with them (in an unrelated topic) and perhaps my response was too hastily composed...

I guess having the status 'Newbie' is akin to being the new kid in school and the bullies are the first to take the opportunity to inflate their egos?

Edit: Oops - 'Titanium', not 'Platinum'

Edited February 1, 2007 by ParadiseLost

[Boo]

I guess having the status 'Newbie' is akin to being the new kid in school and the bullies are the first to take the opportunity to inflate their egos?

yeah now give me ya lunch money before I kick you up the arse (sorry, I like newbies really.)

[Rooo]

SERVICES / HOSPITALITY

Body Shape owner plans boutique hotel

The owner of Body Shape slimming centres is expanding into the hotel business, spending 400-500 million baht to build a boutique resort on the tourist island of Koh Phangan in Surat Thani.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/310107_Business/

Source Bangkok Post

[JRinger]

Place has never impressed me,Overpriced below average hotels,at above average pricing ,bad roads,bad service in most of the restaurants.

Lots of French expats have made serious money on the island buying cheaply 10 or so years ago.

Now we have the Uk crowd and others moving over to the islands detriment.

Unfortunately lack of civic planning and thought towards future infrastructure demands will see Koh P in a more parlous state than Samui.

Smart thing for them to do would be to halt all development now and rethink.

Wishful thinking but unfortunately Koh Phangan will go the way of Samui, Phuket, Pattaya, etc. It's called "progress", for lack of a more appropriate word.

Many years ago when only a handful of foreigner's lived full-time on the Island 'progress' was on the move. The big hotel next to the pier (forgot the name) in Thongsala was built and an eyesore to most. Then the dirt road through town was paved with concrete using bamboo instead of steel to hold it together. At that time there were three 'houses of ill repute', one on the pier road, one in Chuloklum that catered to the Thai & Burmese fishermen and one other in Thonsala next to the other big hotel (again forgot the name). Off season bungalows next to the sea were 50 baht upwards, Thongsala was noisy with a karoke bar and loud speakers from the "Thai-boxing" truck, large mackeral steaks were 10 baht-fresh off the boats, large squid-freshly caught and sun-dried were 70 baht/kg.

Yes, things back then were a bit different than they are now. Most of the roads were unpaved and it was a joy to ride the bicycle around for the whole day with very few trucks on the road. Stopping here and there to chat with local friends in their small sala's, chewing on a bid of beetlenut while listening to people discuss the high prices of land next to the sea selling for 500,000 to 1mb per rai.

I haven't been back for many years and not really interested although I feel fortunate that I was able to enjoy the Island before it became overcrowded with foreigner's complaining how overcrowded and over-developed it's become.

[meatgrowler]

I guess having the status 'Newbie' is akin to being the new kid in school and the bullies are the first to take the opportunity to inflate their egos?

yeah now give me ya lunch money before I kick you up the arse (sorry, I like newbies really.)

qualty!teee heeee

[ParadiseLost]

SERVICES / HOSPITALITY

Body Shape owner plans boutique hotel

The owner of Body Shape slimming centres is expanding into the hotel business, spending 400-500 million baht to build a boutique resort on the tourist island of Koh Phangan in Surat Thani.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/310107_Business/

Source Bangkok Post

Here is an extract:

''I choose to develop a hotel in Koh Phangan because I love the sea. The market demand on Koh Phangan is still huge though it has many cottages and resorts,'' said Mrs Pranee, wife of former government spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee.

So Koh Phangan is the ideal place to develop because 'I love the sea' - brilliant business mind evident here...

Not another wife of former/current/soon to be exposed/... government whatever. Does anyone else find it strange that (wives/kids of) government employees end up having so much success and money to splash out?

The slimming business - should that not read skimming business?

I hope your boutique hotel falls into the sea.

[Rooo]

With global warming ,it will probably fall into the sea.

Edit reason TOO MUT EYES TEA.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Rooo

[girlx]

A couple of years ago I vacationed on the northeast coast of KP, and was "greeted" with the most surly and insolent of resort managers and staff I have ever experienced. They seemed to hate all their farang customers. For me, never again.

let me guess- central cottage on thong nai pan yai? that would not be a big surprise... but anywhere else here would. the locals are still intact, unobtrusive, friendly, and unassuming in general here.

[Jose]

I see two serious long-term time-bombs ticking away for Koh Pha-Ngan:

1) Asbestos: used in cement board roofing tiles almost everywhere, drilled, ground & smashed to dust - pieces found broken up all over the coastline;

2) PVC plastic (specially when burnt) and other potentially toxic refuse, contaminating land and water tables.

All other development-based problems are relatively temporary.

It may not happen in our lifetime, but cement will eventually crumble back to sand, trees may grow back given enough time - nature will ultimately reclaim what man has "borrowed".

[Jose]

I live in ThongSala, which used to be a sleepy little town. There is still very little in the way of accommodation and/or entertainment which suits me fine. However it seems to have become the wild west for young Thais on motorbikes with no exhausts. All it needs is some effective policing.

ParadiseLost, you must have a sympathetic ear in high places.

Seen last Sunday afternoon, at the Ayudhya bank footpath by ThongSala's only traffic lights:

A dozen or so sorry-looking youths, rapidly dismantling and changing noisy exhaust pipes (on about five-six scooters) for more standard/quieter items, police overlooking the whole scene with book in hand.

jose '-)