Why should i invest in Thailand?

[simoh1490]

10 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

How is it able you can breath with your head so far in the sand.

I have an air tube fitted in the same place your scaremongering and totally misleading posts come from!

[Oxx]

26 minutes ago, spambot said:

If taking the Uk route as a investor you must bear in mind the Tax on dividend only has an allowance now of £1,000

 

This only applies to UK residents.  If you're non-UK resident there can be no tax to pay on dividends beyond that deducted at source.

 

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/non-residents-and-investment-income-hs300-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs300-non-residents-and-investment-income-2015

[Pilotman]

5 hours ago, Muzarella said:

Invest in condominiums and mix use townhouses. Chinese are graving what they can...and it will do it even more in the future. On some areas, some properties incrased in value more than 100% in the last few years. You can get a long term lease on a piece of land and place a modern western house designed to be removable....  In that way you can sell or relocate the house anytime if necessary. I did using a Thai architect educated in the USA. Exports is a good and safe business in Thailand, specially in the food proccessing field. Franchises like 7/11 are also a good and safe investment.

Anyway, get a good bilingual  legal and tax advicer to sign any contract. I hope you are a fluent Thai speaker. Here that is mandatory for everything...specially for business.

I dont agree with any of this.   Not my experience at all and not showing in the research I have done.   I don't think the numbers for condo ownership stack up at all outside Bangkok,  Certainly in Chon Buri Province,  which I know best, the market is saturated and they are still building, with many staying vacant. The new renting laws have hit condo owners hard.  The return, after tax is negligible.  You  also seem to reject the plain fact that Thailand is not a stable democracy and everything can change in an instant, and has done many times in past years here. I speak from bitter experience of lost investments. Do you know who owns and operates most 7/11 franchises and who controls the issuing thereof?   Its not that simple, believe  me. 

[Thaidream]

If one does not understand why competing with the locals is 'dangerous'- I would suggest keeping your money in your pocket.  Thailand is rife with business conflicts amongst its own citizens.

 

A foreigner who comes into Thailand with a small business operation and competes with established Thai business and is successful and the Thai businesses' lose market share or even worse go broke will cause not only resentment against the foreign owner but also scrutiny from  unwanted elements. As a foreigner- don't ever get too big- unless you are big and got the money to back it up as well as the connections.

[watcharacters]

5 hours ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

You answered your own question in your last paragraph. I fully concur.

 

Are you calling these sentences his "last paragraph?

 

 

 

"So why should i invest in a country that does not allow a foreigner to have full ownership of any land/building and business? 

How does Thailand attract foreign investors? 

 

How did he answer his own question?       ?

 

• "

 

[Justfine]

Apartments are poor investments outside prime areas. Land appreciates, buildings depreciate.

 

 

[Pilotman]

6 minutes ago, Senseo said:

"Don't compete with the locals." I can't tell you how many times i have heard that line. Why not? 

Is that only for foreigners? Can you compete if you're Thai? 

 

Oh  dear, you really don't know?   Don;t be taken in by the smiles.  You are a guest here and not a particularly welcome one.  Splashing western money around is a clear in invitation to get legged over by someone. 

[JAZZDOG]

11 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I have an air tube fitted in the same place your scaremongering and totally misleading posts come from!

Facts are stubborn things pal. If you believe investing in a country where the government is in the business of picking winners and losers then you have lost already. You are in denial and playing with all your cards face up while the rest of the table is face down and they wont let you know whats wild. Good luck

Edited June 18, 2018 by JAZZDOG
typo

[Pilotman]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

If one does not understand why competing with the locals is 'dangerous'- I would suggest keeping your money in your pocket.  Thailand is rife with business conflicts amongst its own citizens.

 

A foreigner who comes into Thailand with a small business operation and competes with established Thai business and is successful and the Thai businesses' lose market share or even worse go broke will cause not only resentment against the foreign owner but also scrutiny from  unwanted elements. As a foreigner- don't ever get too big- unless you are big and got the money to back it up as well as the connections.

I would add that the Rule of Law, as we westerners understand it, does not operate here.  You have little to no comeback and no protection mechanisms in place.  Who in their right mind would invest in such an environment, unless they only invest what the are happy to lose. and are an inveterate gambler  

[Justfine]

5 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I would add that the Rule of Law, as we westerners understand it, does not operate here.  You have little to no comeback and no protection mechanisms in place.  Who in their right mind would invest in such an environment, unless they only invest what the are happy to lose. and are an inveterate gambler  

Invest in your health. Best investment you can make.

[simoh1490]

38 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Facts are stubborn things pal. If you believe investing in a country where the government is in the business of picking winners and losers then you have lost already. You are in denial and playing with all your cards down while the rest of the table is face up. Good luck

What I believe in, pal, is that the fundamentals of the Thai economy are quite sound and since I live here I have no problems making long-term investments in government bonds and in the SET, I spend baht hence I need to earn baht. Thank goodness I had the balls a few years ago to exchange substantial amounts of foreign currency into THB and to leave that in tax free interest-bearing accounts with major banks, otherwise, I'd be like so many other foreigners here today, wondering if I can afford to remain in Thailand since the exchange rates have moved against their meagre fixed income pension. And thank goodness I had the balls to buy a  home with my longterm partner using an usufruct, that means we both have a roof over our heads that is paid for and she has less to worry about when I pass on, that was purchased with foreign currency purchased a couple of years ago at an attractive exchange rate.

 

Indeed, I am in denial, I'm in denial of the scaremongering reasons posters dream up as to why they shouldn't invest in Thailand, just to cover up the fact that they probably can't!

Edited June 18, 2018 by simoh1490

[Justfine]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

What I believe in, pal, is that the fundamentals of the Thai economy are quite sound and since I live here I have no problems making long-term investments in government bonds and in the SET, I spend baht hence I need to earn baht. Thank goodness I had the balls a few years ago to exchange substantial amounts of foreign currency into THB and to leave that in tax free interest-bearing accounts with major banks, otherwise, I'd be like so many other foreigners here today, wondering if I can afford to remain in Thailand since the exchange rates have moved against my meagre fixed income pension. And thank goodness I had the balls to buy a  home with my longterm partner using an usufruct, that means we both have a roof over our heads that is paid for and she has less to worry about when I pass on, that was purchased with foreign currency purchased a couple of years ago at an attractive exchange rate.

 

Indeed, I am in denial, I'm in denial of the scaremongering reasons posters dream up as to why they shouldn't invest in Thailand, just to cover up the fact that they probably can't!

You sound reasonable.

[micmichd]

5 hours ago, Senseo said:

I was hoping that someone could give me another viewpoint. Is this really it or are there different ways of doing so?

 

I have a great idea and i invested millions and a lot of time into creating something that benefited Thai people and their country but yet, i only own 49% of it, like it's some public company on the stock market. Hey, invest in my country with your money, with your time but you can only own less than half of it.

 

Growing up with Thai people gives you a small sense of how Thai people live. With investing, i mean investments with 6/7 figures. 

 

Like i said before, i want to invest in creating a better economy and environment. That could mean creating a shoe factory with 30 employees that have good pay and extra benefits like insurance.

 

But only owning 49% is disturbing. So i don't really understand how Thailand is attracting foreign investors. 

Actually nobody keeps you from investing in a shoe factory in Thailand. They just don't want to sell out Thai soil to foreign investors. And - taking into account the housing situation in the West - they have good reasons.

Edited June 18, 2018 by micmichd

[simoh1490]

14 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I would add that the Rule of Law, as we westerners understand it, does not operate here.  You have little to no comeback and no protection mechanisms in place.  Who in their right mind would invest in such an environment, unless they only invest what the are happy to lose. and are an inveterate gambler  

Please explain to us how the rule of law in Thailand does not operate here as it relates to foreigners and investments.

[Senseo]

29 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

If one does not understand why competing with the locals is 'dangerous'- I would suggest keeping your money in your pocket.  Thailand is rife with business conflicts amongst its own citizens.

 

A foreigner who comes into Thailand with a small business operation and competes with established Thai business and is successful and the Thai businesses' lose market share or even worse go broke will cause not only resentment against the foreign owner but also scrutiny from  unwanted elements. As a foreigner- don't ever get too big- unless you are big and got the money to back it up as well as the connections.

 

26 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Oh  dear, you really don't know?   Don;t be taken in by the smiles.  You are a guest here and not a particularly welcome one.  Splashing western money around is a clear in invitation to get legged over by someone. 

I certainly do understand and have had Thai people explain it to me. But doesn't that go for any country? If i have had a bike rental for more than a decade and then some <deleted> foreigner comes next to me with newer bikes and cheaper prices. Yes, i would certainly get pissed.

 

Now, in what way do Thai people react to competition? Are there any documented cases of foreigners being hurt in any shape or form with business related issues?  The Thai people to whom i've spoken to, told me not to mess with anyone if it creates any competition because the Thai businesses are usually involved with the "mafia". 

 

But like i said before, any businesses that i would setup will probably not cause any competition and it's merely used to secure a future for myself in Thailand, the people working and the environment. I would have a hard time of thinking why anyone would want to shut me down unless it is for jealousy. 

 

Now i often ask questions to whom i know the answers to cause maybe there might be something that i missed or maybe there is more about it than i thought. 

 

Oh yeah, since i'll always own less than 50%, any businesses created in Thailand are mainly owned and operated by Thai people. So there is always going to be a fight between Thai people. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Senseo

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Indeed, I am in denial, I'm in denial of the scaremongering reasons posters dream up as to why they shouldn't invest in Thailand, just to cover up the fact that they probably can't!

I do not think it is scaremongering to warn small time investors (10 million or less) against the pitfalls of investing in Thailand. Your investment in house and stocks/bonds etc  when the exchange rate was good makes sense. I, and others have done similar- except I have stayed away from stocks and bonds since I know little about them.

 

The caveat I always use is to warn people that do not have money to lose not to consider Thailand a place to invest all your money in the belief you can make money quick. If one does not understand the Thai 'system'; cannot speak Thai and understand the legal and non legal ways they can lose money- it's better to keep it in the bank.

 

I know many people who have bought homes; made prudent investments; and are committed to Thailand long term. I also know many who have spent all their money on small business; condo purchase; and other so called investments and lost it all. Most of these people have left Thailand but some who remain are very unhappy and living on a very small amount of money.  Being poor in Thailand  with a small pension and declining exchange rates is not my idea of  'living the dream.'

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I do not think it is scaremongering to warn small time investors (10 million or less) against the pitfalls of investing in Thailand. Your investment in house and stocks/bonds etc  when the exchange rate was good makes sense. I, and others have done similar- except I have stayed away from stocks and bonds since I know little about them.

 

The caveat I always use is to warn people that do not have money to lose not to consider Thailand a place to invest all your money in the belief you can make money quick. If one does not understand the Thai 'system'; cannot speak Thai and understand the legal and non legal ways they can lose money- it's better to keep it in the bank.

 

I know many people who have bought homes; made prudent investments; and are committed to Thailand long term. I also know many who have spent all their money on small business; condo purchase; and other so called investments and lost it all. Most of these people have left Thailand but some who remain are very unhappy and living on a very small amount of money.  Being poor in Thailand  with a small pension and declining exchange rates is not my idea of  'living the dream.'

I totally agree with everything you've written above. What I totally disagree with however is that people cite guest house closures as a reason why the Thai boogeyman is out to get all foreigners who want to invest in Thailand and the lack of rule of law as it pertains to foreign investments, it's absolute nonsense.

 

Investors everywhere in every country need to tread carefully and fully understand what they're getting into, if they themselves are not equipped to handle such things they need to seek out expert advice they can trust, these are the same sets of rules that apply back home.

[JAZZDOG]

11 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Please explain to us how the rule of law in Thailand does not operate here as it relates to foreigners and investments.

I did but before you even read the facts you labeled it fear mongering. Fact is as we speak the government is closing down hundreds of hotels large and small across the country along with investment condos farang rent out. This is based on an amendment to a law that has never been enforced which only 300 hotels in the country have a valid license out of 25000 hotels. Seems this "enforcement" is directed at mostly foreign investor/owners. If you think any investment here is secure I got some Arizona oceanfront property you might be interested in.

[Pilotman]

22 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Please explain to us how the rule of law in Thailand does not operate here as it relates to foreigners and investments.

Find out yourself mate, I'm not here to  provide research. 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, JAZZDOG said:

I did but before you even read the facts you labeled it fear mongering. Fact is as we speak the government is closing down hundreds of hotels large and small across the country along with investment condos farang rent out. This is based on an amendment to a law that has never been enforced which only 300 hotels in the country have a valid license out of 25000 hotels. Seems this "enforcement" is directed at mostly foreign investor/owners. If you think any investment here is secure I got some Arizona oceanfront property you might be interested in.

Unlicensed hotels and guesthouses are being closed down because they are not licensed, may not meet safety standards and , er, um, no-licensed! Quite right too and I can only hope that every country does the same although perhaps the one you come from does not! Sadly however I am aware personally of one person who has been forced out of business as a result of this action and it was not deserved, it is, however, collateral damage.

 

Just because a law has not been enforced before does not make it invalid!!

 

Farangs who rent out condo's through airb&b etc deserve to be shut down, I personally don't want to buy a condo, live in it and then find the entire floor has become a hotel overnight with different guests coming and going and all the risks that involves. The law states that 30 days is the minimum rental period, go with it or don't rent out.

 

 

[simoh1490]

7 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Find out yourself mate, I'm not here to  provide research. 

You're prepared to post nonsense and totally misleading nonsense but not support it, that's against forum rules, keep doing it and I'll report it.

[JAZZDOG]

8 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I totally agree with everything you've written above. What I totally disagree with however is that people cite guest house closures as a reason why the Thai boogeyman is out to get all foreigners who want to invest in Thailand and the lack of rule of law as it pertains to foreign investments, it's absolute nonsense.

 

Investors everywhere in every country need to tread carefully and fully understand what they're getting into, if they themselves are not equipped to handle such things they need to seek out expert advice they can trust, these are the same sets of rules that apply back home.

Educate yourselves, it's not just guest houses, it's across the board, just not the big boys. Any government that does what is happening here right now along with all the other environmental, social issues does not even deserve mention as an investment possibility. I understand if you are 'all in' it is a hard pill to swallow. Many other places to live and invest and feel welcome. Tell me you actually feel welcome here and the answer will determine how much of the cool-aid you've swallowed.

[Justfine]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You're prepared to post nonsense and totally misleading nonsense but not support it, that's against forum rules, keep doing it and I'll report it.

Lots of people post misinformation they can't support with facts and figures.

 

The internet is like a pub.

[simoh1490]

6 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Educate yourselves, it's not just guest houses, it's across the board, just not the big boys. Any government that does what is happening here right now along with all the other environmental, social issues does not even deserve mention as an investment possibility. I understand if you are 'all in' it is a hard pill to swallow. Many other places to live and invest and feel welcome. Tell me you actually feel welcome here and the answer will determine how much of the cool-aid you've swallowed.

That's the thing, I'm not all in, after 16 years here I'm now going to split my year with 50% back in the UK because I want some variation in my life, not because I think like you do that the place is unsafe etc., I have the freedom and the means to live where I chose pretty much

 

Yes I feel welcome here, where I live is very comfortable for us and we have many good long term Thai friends. But I don't live in a touristy part of Thailand, the people I know and see daily are decent middle class Thai's, many Pattaya dwellers wouldn't understand that I imagine.

Edited June 18, 2018 by simoh1490

[bouph12]

I'm sure there are exceptions, but Thai funds generally aren't a good deal.

 

An ETF passive tracker is usually one of the cheapest ways to invest in funds.That may be true here but there is a disconcerting opacity to the phrase "Charges not to exceed..."

 

A Thailand bank I won't name has a tracker following the top 50 companies on the SET. Current charge is 0.51% but if you take an ETF with them you are agreeing to potential charges of 3.77% pa and a staggering potential 1.5% charge on the front and back ends. Bloomberg reports that it's averaged a return of 6.32% pa over the last 3 years

 

In comparison, an ETF from Lyxor on the Paris exchange investing in exactly the same 50 companies on the SET charges 0.45% pa . That's it. It's averaged a return of 8.61% pa over the same period.

 

A personal example is that I have a holding in a Foreign Investment Fund here whose main job is to buy units in a Global Equity Fund based in Luxembourg. They charge 1.5% pa for this. This FIF went up by 8.06% in the last year, which is better than a term deposit...... however:

 

The Fund in Luxembourg who are doing the actual research and choosing stocks charge 0.75% pa. That Fund went up by 13.98% in the last year.

 

Currency deviations might make a difference either way, but the bottom line is that Funds here are comparatively expensive.

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, bouph12 said:

I'm sure there are exceptions, but Thai funds generally aren't a good deal.

 

An ETF passive tracker is usually one of the cheapest ways to invest in funds.That may be true here but there is a disconcerting opacity to the phrase "Charges not to exceed..."

 

A Thailand bank I won't name has a tracker following the top 50 companies on the SET. Current charge is 0.51% but if you take an ETF with them you are agreeing to potential charges of 3.77% pa and a staggering potential 1.5% charge on the front and back ends. Bloomberg reports that it's averaged a return of 6.32% pa over the last 3 years

 

In comparison, an ETF from Lyxor on the Paris exchange investing in exactly the same 50 companies on the SET charges 0.45% pa . That's it. It's averaged a return of 8.61% pa over the same period.

 

A personal example is that I have a holding in a Foreign Investment Fund here whose main job is to buy units in a Global Equity Fund based in Luxembourg. They charge 1.5% pa for this. This FIF went up by 8.06% in the last year, which is better than a term deposit...... however:

 

The Fund in Luxembourg who are doing the actual research and choosing stocks charge 0.75% pa. That Fund went up by 13.98% in the last year.

 

Currency deviations might make a difference either way, but the bottom line is that Funds here are comparatively expensive.

I've held CG-LTF for some time, even without making use of the tax advantage it's still returned 15% over the year: http://siamchart.com/fund-compare/LTF_EQ

Edited June 18, 2018 by simoh1490

[micmichd]

38 minutes ago, Senseo said:

 

I certainly do understand and have had Thai people explain it to me. But doesn't that go for any country? If i have had a bike rental for more than a decade and then some <deleted> foreigner comes next to me with newer bikes and cheaper prices. Yes, i would certainly get pissed.

 

Now, in what way do Thai people react to competition? Are there any documented cases of foreigners being hurt in any shape or form with business related issues?  The Thai people to whom i've spoken to, told me not to mess with anyone if it creates any competition because the Thai businesses are usually involved with the "mafia". 

 

But like i said before, any businesses that i would setup will probably not cause any competition and it's merely used to secure a future for myself in Thailand, the people working and the environment. I would have a hard time of thinking why anyone would want to shut me down unless it is for jealousy. 

 

Now i often ask questions to whom i know the answers to cause maybe there might be something that i missed or maybe there is more about it than i thought. 

 

Oh yeah, since i'll always own less than 50%, any businesses created in Thailand are mainly owned and operated by Thai people. So there is always going to be a fight between Thai people. 

Competition isn't that bad if it comes with accumulation of resources. Thai soil is a scarce resource though, and you cannot own land without taking it away from somebody else. That's why I wouldn't invest in real estate in Thailand. 

There are other fields open for investment though. Medicine and wellness e.g. You will need expertise for this, and you'll probably need a joint venture. But you might also become a consumer of medical services one day, and then you'll be glad to have them. Just a thought...

 

[lkv]

53 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Please explain to us how the rule of law in Thailand does not operate here as it relates to foreigners and investments.

There is no rule of law.

 

It's a heavily corrupt environment. Money talks, laws and rules come second.

 

Don't believe it?

 

Check out how UK citizens lose houses on forged signatures screwed by wifes, corrupt lawyers and corrupt courts.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34346620

Edited June 18, 2018 by lkv

[JAZZDOG]

23 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Unlicensed hotels and guesthouses are being closed down because they are not licensed, may not meet safety standards and , er, um, no-licensed! Quite right too and I can only hope that every country does the same although perhaps the one you come from does not! Sadly however I am aware personally of one person who has been forced out of business as a result of this action and it was not deserved, it is, however, collateral damage.

 

Just because a law has not been enforced before does not make it invalid!!

 

Farangs who rent out condo's through airb&b etc deserve to be shut down, I personally don't want to buy a condo, live in it and then find the entire floor has become a hotel overnight with different guests coming and going and all the risks that involves. The law states that 30 days is the minimum rental period, go with it or don't rent out.

 

 

Hmm!

 

20 minutes ago, BestB said:

In Pattaya they are not only targeting low budget or main locations . They are  going after all but in very random order.

 

Some big boys also getting done, including hard rock on the beach.

 

as I mentioned this morning saw another “bigger” being done.

 

Thailand never really been a rich man destination , I doubt they would succeed pushing tourists into Hilton’s , but will succeed into pushing them away to neighboring countries .

 

But again, it’s only my opinion , clearly big boys at the top have different idea

WOW, but I really doubt they'll close Hard Rock. If they do, they have obviously lost the plot and it may be a good time for all of us to start thinking about alternative countries to live. Hard Rock, indeed!!!!!! Next thing they'll be changing the rules on condo ownership. Nothing to stop them if they can close Hard Rock.

 

However, no resort will have a hard time conforming to parking or green space regulations.

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, lkv said:

There is no rule of law.

 

It's a heavily corrupt environment. Money talks, laws and rules come second.

 

Don't believe it?

 

Check out how UK citizens lose houses on forged signatures screwed by wifes, corrupt lawyers and corrupt courts.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34346620

Yes, there are crimes and corrupt people in many positions and roles in Thailand, it can be quite scary. But none of that means there isn't a legal system that works for most people.