สุขภาพ Health ; Wellbeing ; Good Condition

[loong]

http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/19969.html

The above link should take you to the Thai2English reference for สุขภาพ health ; wellbeing ; good condition

It is transliterated as sòok pâap, but I have always pronounced it sòok ka pâap

Are there 2 ways of pronouncing this word or is 1 wrong?

[ashacat]

sòok ka pâap

Thats how I've always said it...

[Briggsy]

I have never heard the former pronunciation. It may be similar to วันพฤหัส which is pronounced differently from its "correct" pronunciation.

[meadish_sweetball]

http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/19969.html

The above link should take you to the Thai2English reference for สุขภาพ health ; wellbeing ; good condition

It is transliterated as sòok pâap, but I have always pronounced it sòok ka pâap

Are there 2 ways of pronouncing this word or is 1 wrong?

Hi Loong,

sòok ka pâap is indeed correct, and thai2english.com is wrong.

You cannot trust thai2english to be 100% correct as a pronunciation guide.

I have not designed the software, but I think it works out the syllables and pronunciation by some general rules. Words that do not follow the general pattern will thus be incorrect.

I have a hunch some words are corrected manually as they are discovered, but not sure. If Mike pops in soon he can probably tell us more.

[In the Rai!]

Yes Meadish, I have been caught out a few times when I have learnt new words. I tried throwing them into sentences only to have that vague look on their faces (priceless for the ego)

I never trust it for pronunciation and have found alot of words that are wrong. Don't get me wrong I use it all the time and is a great site but I always check the pronuciation with a Thai.

cheers ITR

[kriswillems]

Another example (shopping mall):

ห้างสรรพสินค้า

according to thai2english pronouced as:

hâang sàp sĭn-káa

Shouldn't that be: haang sap pha sin kaa?

[meadish_sweetball]

Another example (shopping mall):

ห้างสรรพสินค้า

according to thai2english pronouced as:

hâang sàp sĭn-káa

Shouldn't that be: haang sap pha sin kaa?

I have actually only heard it pronounced 'hâang sàp sĭn-káa' just as they write it, but naturally that does not mean this is necessarily correct.

[kriswillems]

Another example (shopping mall):

ห้างสรรพสินค้า

according to thai2english pronouced as:

hâang sàp sĭn-káa

Shouldn't that be: haang sap pha sin kaa?

I have actually only heard it pronounced 'hâang sàp sĭn-káa' just as they write it, but naturally that does not mean this is necessarily correct.

See post 88:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=834906

Their might be 2 ways to pronounce it. My Thai language course also uses the way as described in post 88 in the "Let's learn one word a day" thread.

[meadish_sweetball]

There might be 2 ways to pronounce it.

Very possible, or I could just be wrong. Haas's Student Dictionary does not list the full expression, but says สรรพ can be pronounced in three ways, and that the pronunciation varies depending on the combination it occurs in. The three pronunciations listed are sàp, sàp-pha- and and [R]san-pha- .

In the Royal Institute Dictionary, two pronunciations are given for สรรพ (the [R]san-pha- pronunciation is excluded).

[In the Rai!]

There might be 2 ways to pronounce it.

Very possible, or I could just be wrong. Haas's Student Dictionary does not list the full expression, but says สรรพ can be pronounced in three ways, and that the pronunciation varies depending on the combination it occurs in. The three pronunciations listed are sàp, sàp-pha- and and [R]san-pha- .

In the Royal Institute Dictionary, two pronunciations are given for สรรพ (the [R]san-pha- pronunciation is excluded).

I (as per post 88) have only ever heard and used sàp-pha not saap sin.

But it is certainly not uncommon in English to have 2 words pronounced differently so I wonder if it is the case with certain Thai words. I would of thought no but..... you never know.

Cheers

ITR

[rgs2001uk]

http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/19969.html

The above link should take you to the Thai2English reference for สุขภาพ health ; wellbeing ; good condition

It is transliterated as sòok pâap, but I have always pronounced it sòok ka pâap

Are there 2 ways of pronouncing this word or is 1 wrong?

i am no expert, and dont claim to be.

however i think the confusion comes in because of the inherent vowel before the phor samphaw.

the same inherent vowel that often causes people to misspronounce pattaya, some people read the thai script and pronounce pattaya as pattya, because they are unaware of the inherent vowel.

just when you thought you were getting to grips with the language, along comes another exception.

another example would be the thai script for ratchaburi

[kriswillems]

There might be 2 ways to pronounce it.

Very possible, or I could just be wrong. Haas's Student Dictionary does not list the full expression, but says สรรพ can be pronounced in three ways, and that the pronunciation varies depending on the combination it occurs in. The three pronunciations listed are sàp, sàp-pha- and and [R]san-pha- .

In the Royal Institute Dictionary, two pronunciations are given for สรรพ (the [R]san-pha- pronunciation is excluded).

Is asked my (Thai)wife. She said that you should pronounce สรรพ as sap, but in the word ห้างสรรพสินค้า , สรรพ should be pronounced as sap-pha, because it's not the end of the word.

another example: เสร็จสรรพ (completely finished), should be pronounced as set-sap (not sap-pha)

[kriswillems]

another mistake in the dictionary:

นามธรรม (abstract). the dictionary says: naam tam

But it should be: naam ma tam.

But in a similar word, the dictionary is correct:

รูปธรรม (concrete). the dictionary says: rôop-bpà-tam (and not roop tam, which is incorrect)

So, it seems like the dictionary doesn't always make the same mistakes, suggesting there's no automatic transliteration system, but these are human mistakes.

Edited February 1, 2007 by kriswillems

[tgeezer]

I have never heard the former pronunciation. It may be similar to วันพฤหัส which is pronounced differently from its "correct" pronunciation.

I mentioned to a Thai the anomaly of วันพฤหัสบดี that the สบดี was not pronounced and he said that it was, people are too lazy. I like to be crankey so I sometimes put it in and there is no comment. Like มกราดม,most people pronounce โ-ะ between the first two letters but it should be pronounced มะกะราดม . language moves with the times and if you're old enough you can talk 'old'.

Edited February 1, 2007 by tgeezer

[aanon]

another mistake in the dictionary:

นามธรรม (abstract). the dictionary says: naam tam

But it should be: naam ma tam.

Here's the most misguided example i've found so far in thai2english:

ทัศนคติ means opinion, view

i've always heard it as tat-sa-na-ka-dti

you can imagine my surprise when i found it listed in thai2english as (ทัศ-นค-ติ-)!

surely there can't be a human out there coming up with these pronunciation guides?

all the best.

ps. has anyone found the 'submit correction' link to work?

[meadish_sweetball]

aanon: Agreed, that type of very obvious mistakes is exactly the reason why I am fairly certain they use some type of application to divide a text into syllables and from there, derive its pronunciation.

Since ทัศ is a valid word, as is ติ, it would be quite understandable that the program chop off the sequence into ทัศ-นค-ติ-.

I haven't used the 'submit correction' link, but mike who is the webmaster is also a member here at thaivisa, membername mike_l, so you could try to PM him here if the website links do not work. He hasn't been here for a while though, I think.

[mike_l]

You're right, the pronunciations are by-and-large algorithmically generated and as you've noticed the algorithm isn't 100% accurate at present.

I'm aware of this problem though and I've got a much improved version of thai2english under development, which should pretty much make this a non-issue in the near future. I've been working on it for ages but it's still not quite ready yet, can't make any promises as to when but hopefully will be soon.

[Richard W]

The algorithm isn't 100% accurate at present.

Can it ever be 100% correct?

Only look-up will get you round perfectly regular pairs of words like เพลา and เสมา. There's a Thai Thai transcription program on the web that considers all the possibilities for a sentence, and there are a *lot* of possibilities for most sentences.

The worst words, I think, are going to be English loan words. I couldn't get a human answer to a simple question about the length of the vowels in กอล์ฟ and เค้ก.

Richard.

[meadish_sweetball]

กอล์ฟ and เค้ก.

I'd say these two words both take long vowels (and high tones) in the spoken language, at least among the people I have heard use them.

[Tywais]

Every year I have to get my car inspected (>7 years old) before I pay taxes on it. I always thought the term used was สุภาพรถ as that is the way I hear it. Wonder if it is supposed to be สุขภาพรถ and Chiangmai dialect pronounce it as the former?

[aanon]

Every year I have to get my car inspected (>7 years old) before I pay taxes on it. I always thought the term used was สุภาพรถ as that is the way I hear it. Wonder if it is supposed to be สุขภาพรถ and Chiangmai dialect pronounce it as the former?

tywais,

สภาพ (sa-phaap) is standard thai, it means 'condition'. could that be what you're hearing?

all the best.

[Tywais]

Every year I have to get my car inspected (>7 years old) before I pay taxes on it. I always thought the term used was สุภาพรถ as that is the way I hear it. Wonder if it is supposed to be สุขภาพรถ and Chiangmai dialect pronounce it as the former?

tywais,

สภาพ (sa-phaap) is standard thai, it means 'condition'. could that be what you're hearing?

all the best.

That could be. Probably thought it was su-pahp because being familiar with that word and not the other. Makes a lot more sense then to 'polite the car'.

[aanon]

You're right, the pronunciations are by-and-large algorithmically generated and as you've noticed the algorithm isn't 100% accurate at present.

I'm aware of this problem though and I've got a much improved version of thai2english under development, which should pretty much make this a non-issue in the near future. I've been working on it for ages but it's still not quite ready yet, can't make any promises as to when but hopefully will be soon.

hey mike_l,

just wanted to say that i've found thai2english to be a very useful site, i often have it and a select few other dictionaries open when reading thai articles, so please keep up the good work!

have you intentionally disabled the 'submit correction' link while you work on the new version of the site?

all the best.

[Tywais]

You're right, the pronunciations are by-and-large algorithmically generated and as you've noticed the algorithm isn't 100% accurate at present.

I'm aware of this problem though and I've got a much improved version of thai2english under development, which should pretty much make this a non-issue in the near future. I've been working on it for ages but it's still not quite ready yet, can't make any promises as to when but hopefully will be soon.

hey mike_l,

just wanted to say that i've found thai2english to be a very useful site, i often have it and a select few other dictionaries open when reading thai articles, so please keep up the good work!

I'll toss in my compliments also to a great site. I use it regularly especially when sometimes I have to explain to my wife a complex English word or two.