Punishment for students

[joninisaan]

I would like to know what sort of punishments other teachers here in Thailand hand out to students who break rules in their class. I'm referring to after a student or students

have been warned and repeatedly broke a certain rule. I just want some ideas on what kind of punishment we can give students here in Thailand, preferably mathayom level students as I teach in a Mathayom school. 

 

Thanks in advance

[Rhys]

 Sadly.. welcome to the reality of Thailand... Discipline the students.. you are looked upon as a troublemaker.  Thai students many know Westerners try to punish their behavior but laugh and carry on... because nothing will happen. Yes it bites.... but that is only one of the realities of teaching in Thailand...

 

Cell phone, jumped classes, cheating.. all forgiven...

 

Quite frustrating indeed.

[inThailand]

Another slow news day? 

[akirasan]

I got told I'm allowed to hit the students but I'd rather not.

 

I give the really naughty ones some responsibility. Like calling the roll at the start of the class, helping me clean up afterwards, running small errands for me, just give them something to do besides acting up.

[dotpoom]

3 minutes ago, akirasan said:

I got told I'm allowed to hit the students but I'd rather not

Are you serious..in this day and age ...and a foreigner on top of that?

[akirasan]

4 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

Are you serious..in this day and age ...and a foreigner on top of that?

I know, right? Talk about about asking for trouble. I've had teachers who were visiting class put a stick in my hand before, but I always put it back on the desk and keep doing what I was doing.

Of course you get those days where the kids are just impossible to control or one student wants to make class hell for everybody else. Those days I'll shift the lesson outside or play some game to start with that gets them running around. The real troublemakers tend to act up when they're either bored or they've got had a problem at home so it helps to take their mind off whatever is bothering them, burn off some energy and makes the class more fun for everybody.

[scorecard]

26 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

Are you serious..in this day and age ...and a foreigner on top of that?

It is specifically illegal in Thailand for teachers, any teachers to hit children with a hand , a stick, a cane, or whatever.

 

But do Thai teachers still use sticks etc., to hit kids? Yes.

[bkkgriz]

24 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

Are you serious..in this day and age ...and a foreigner on top of that?

Years ago when I taught at a high school in Korea I was told to get a stick. I declined. All the Korean teachers carried a big wooden dowel. The sticks are euphemistically referred to as the rod of love.

[joninisaan]

15 hours ago, Rhys said:

 Sadly.. welcome to the reality of Thailand... Discipline the students.. you are looked upon as a troublemaker.  Thai students many know Westerners try to punish their behavior but laugh and carry on... because nothing will happen. Yes it bites.... but that is only one of the realities of teaching in Thailand...

 

Cell phone, jumped classes, cheating.. all forgiven...

 

Quite frustrating indeed.

Thanks for your response. Yeah I hear you loud and clear. My wife's a Thai teacher and she said now, even Thai teachers are very limited on how they discipline their students.

[joninisaan]

56 minutes ago, inThailand said:

Another slow news day? 

Yes.......

[joninisaan]

54 minutes ago, akirasan said:

I got told I'm allowed to hit the students but I'd rather not.

 

I give the really naughty ones some responsibility. Like calling the roll at the start of the class, helping me clean up afterwards, running small errands for me, just give them something to do besides acting up.

Thanks for your response. That's some good ideas especially cleaning up afterwards. I had a stick in my past classes but of course, never used it on the students but the white board and the top of the desk got constant beatings from the stick when trying to get the students attention. One thing I noticed about Thai students, they can make a ton of noise but absolutely hate it when teachers are the ones making loud noises.

[joninisaan]

41 minutes ago, akirasan said:

I know, right? Talk about about asking for trouble. I've had teachers who were visiting class put a stick in my hand before, but I always put it back on the desk and keep doing what I was doing.

Of course you get those days where the kids are just impossible to control or one student wants to make class hell for everybody else. Those days I'll shift the lesson outside or play some game to start with that gets them running around. The real troublemakers tend to act up when they're either bored or they've got had a problem at home so it helps to take their mind off whatever is bothering them, burn off some energy and makes the class more fun for everybody.

Thanks for posting. I never thought about the reason some students act up actually. Ill try starting with a game to get the students to burn off energy at the start of class.

[thaiguzzi]

A good public caning...

[HHTel]

The Child Protection Act in Thailand is quite comprehensive but ignored by most Thai teachers.  Until parents use the law to get rid of such teachers, then nothing will happen.  

[NoshowJones]

With Prathom students, I would tell anyone being really naughty to stand outside the door, they hate that as any Thai teacher walking past is going to ask them why they are standing there.

Also. I used to punish them by telling them to stand up on their chairs for so long.

[joninisaan]

2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

A good public caning...

Haha! I'm sure if public cannings were enforced here on Thai students, it WOULD make an impact on students behaviors especially in classes. But sadly, its not an option.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, joninisaan said:

Thanks for posting. I never thought about the reason some students act up actually. Ill try starting with a game to get the students to burn off energy at the start of class.

 

Depends on the level, I have over about 8 years put 3 bachelor students out of the class, 2 girls, 1 boy.

 

The boy because other students quietly alerted me that he was injecting drugs, and I caught him in the act.

 

One girl because she was determined to disrupt the lessons, continuously talking loudly on her smartphone which must be turned off during lessons. Two Thai professors had previously also removed her from the room. I told her to pack her bag which would take less the 1 minute, she deliberately pulled everything out of her bag and dropped her stuff all over the floor, very slowly one by one picking up er things and at the same time say, in Thai that the professor is crazy. I told her to stand up and go and asked 3 other girls to pack her things.

 

Second girl a loudmouth tomboy who regularly intimidated girls in the class, one day she was quite aggressively trying to hold the head and face of an european exchange girl, and trying to forceable mouth kiss the exchange student. Many of the students yelled at her and one German boy grabbed her and forcibly dragged her to the other side of the room.

 

On all 3 occasions I called the program coordinators to come quickly (located 1 floor down) and all were escorted to the director's' office. On all occasions I asked for 3 students to also come and share what had happened with the director. Instantly more than 3 volunteers. At the directors office I gave my comments then quickly left so that the errant student and the other felt free to speak.

 

All three were dismissed never allowed to register again and all grades, all semesters, cancelled. In every case there had been several incidents in other classes which had been reported to the director.

 

On every occasion when we got back to the lesson one or more students thanked me for taking action.

 

 

 

[joninisaan]

2 hours ago, HHTel said:

The Child Protection Act in Thailand is quite comprehensive but ignored by most Thai teachers.  Until parents use the law to get rid of such teachers, then nothing will happen.  

But now things are changing for even Thai teachers as my wife recently moved from teaching at a school out here in the country to a school in the city of Sakhon Nakon and had to change her ways of punishing students. But I think for EVERY foreign teacher herein Thailand its not a matter of IF but WHEN something happens.

[joninisaan]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

With Prathom students, I would tell anyone being really naughty to stand outside the door, they hate that as any Thai teacher walking past is going to ask them why they are standing there.

Also. I used to punish them by telling them to stand up on their chairs for so long.

I was considering having the naughty student stand outside the door but my wife who is a Thai teacher said that even though most likely not......the naughty student goes wondering off and gets into trouble such as in a fight and get hurt. I would probably be held responsible for that student especially being a foreign teacher here in Thailand where even though I get along well with everyone in my school, I would be left alone to fend for myself. This to others here in Thailand is a highly unlikely scenario but I shouldn't press my luck.

 

Also about other teachers or faculty questioning a naughty student standing outside, my wife's school in the city this would work as the director and vice directors constantly walk around campus. But, for my school here in the countryside, this would never work as the director is almost never in school and the Thai teachers and vice directors wouldn't even think of using their free time walking around campus even to save their life.

 

But thanks for the response though. I would think  about twice about having the student stand on his chair as I could imagine the student falling off the chair somehow injuring themselves but I will try using just standing up for a period of time as my students are so lazy that even having them stand for a minute is absolute hell for them.

[joninisaan]

Just now, scorecard said:

 

Depends on the level, I have over about 8 years put 3 bachelor students out of the class, 2 girls, 1 boy.

 

The boy because other students quietly alerted me that he was injecting drugs, and I caught him in the act.

 

One girl because she was determined to disrupt the lessons, continuously talking loudly on her smartphone which must be turned off during lessons. Two Thai professors had previously also removed her from the room. I told her to pack her bag which would take less the 1 minute, she deliberately pulled everything out of her bag and dropped her stuff all over the floor, very slowly one by one picking up er things and at the same time say, in Thai that the professor is crazy. I told her to stand up and go and asked 3 other girls to pack her things.

 

Second girl a loudmouth tomboy who regularly intimidated girls in the class, one day she was quite aggressively trying to hold the head and face of an european exchange girl, and trying to forceable mouth kiss the exchange student. Many of the students yelled at her and one German boy grabbed her and forcibly dragged her to the other side of the room.

 

On all 3 occasions I called the program coordinators to come quickly (located 1 floor down) and all were escorted to the director's' office. On all occasions I asked for 3 students to also come and share what had happened with the director. Instantly more than 3 volunteers. At the directors office I gave my comments then quickly left so that the errant student and the other felt free to speak.

 

All three were dismissed never allowed to register again and all grades, all semesters, cancelled. In every case there had been several incidents in other classes which had been reported to the director.

 

On every occasion when we got back to the lesson one or more students thanked me for taking action.

 

 

 

WOW! You had some pretty bad experiences! SO FAR, I never had incidents that bad! The thing I heard that bad at my school is the year before I taught here, the foreign teacher came back to his class after lunch to find the GIRLS sitting in a circle drinking wine cooler and playing cards. When the foreign teacher confronted them, they asked if he wanted to join them.

 

I worked at a school that was considered a bit bad back home in Hawaii and I worked with the most troubled students in the school but I never had any of them try to do drugs in class. Can I ask, what part of Thailand is this school?

[NoshowJones]

20 minutes ago, joninisaan said:

I was considering having the naughty student stand outside the door but my wife who is a Thai teacher said that even though most likely not......the naughty student goes wondering off and gets into trouble such as in a fight and get hurt. I would probably be held responsible for that student especially being a foreign teacher here in Thailand where even though I get along well with everyone in my school, I would be left alone to fend for myself. This to others here in Thailand is a highly unlikely scenario but I shouldn't press my luck.

 

Also about other teachers or faculty questioning a naughty student standing outside, my wife's school in the city this would work as the director and vice directors constantly walk around campus. But, for my school here in the countryside, this would never work as the director is almost never in school and the Thai teachers and vice directors wouldn't even think of using their free time walking around campus even to save their life.

 

But thanks for the response though. I would think  about twice about having the student stand on his chair as I could imagine the student falling off the chair somehow injuring themselves but I will try using just standing up for a period of time as my students are so lazy that even having them stand for a minute is absolute hell for them.

I was only referring to a Prathom school grades 5 and 6. I copied them from the other teachers, I was the only western teacher in the school. My apologies for missing out that you were actually referring to a Mattayom school.

When I worked in a Mattayom school grades 9 and 10, I reported students who were continually naughty to the Head of the English Department.

[scorecard]

38 minutes ago, joninisaan said:

WOW! You had some pretty bad experiences! SO FAR, I never had incidents that bad! The thing I heard that bad at my school is the year before I taught here, the foreign teacher came back to his class after lunch to find the GIRLS sitting in a circle drinking wine cooler and playing cards. When the foreign teacher confronted them, they asked if he wanted to join them.

 

I worked at a school that was considered a bit bad back home in Hawaii and I worked with the most troubled students in the school but I never had any of them try to do drugs in class. Can I ask, what part of Thailand is this school?

Bangkok. I won't name the specific school.

 

I've taught at 5 uni's in Bkk, the only uni where I've never had some behaviour problems is NIDA.

 

Even the 2 'most prestigious', I've had some behavior problems or been aware of other professors having student behavior problems.

 

One of the worst was a bigger and strong hi-so boy 19 yrs old who beat up a 19 yr old girl in the class room during the morning coffee break and broke her arm when he smashed a student chair (with arm table) over her. He was saying, not quietly, that he wanted to squeeze her tits and she responded with some foul words. (The school then discovered the same boy has been involved in reported brawls several times and had pulled a hand gun during a brawl at a disco at RCA. Yes he was underage to enter but he always had a bodyguard who 'smoothed' things as needed.)

 

His father was asked to come in, he came and when asked by the director to order his son to behave himself responded with; 'no because I want my son to have fun at uni'. Father is a well known XXX shirt politician.

 

At the other 'most prestigious' we started most semesters with a few European exchange students, some lasted the full semester, some pulled out and went home after 3 or 4 classes.

 

Why? Shock at the class room behaviors of many students, and disappointed that so much time was wasted because the professor had to stop again and again and tell the students (mostly girls) to stop talking and listen, plus the lack of respect and arrogance, eg: in one lesson I stopped and told a small group of girls, again, to stop talking, the ring leader responded with 'no, your not my father, and maybe better if you stopped talking and let us chat'. 

 

 

[joninisaan]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

I was only referring to a Prathom school grades 5 and 6. I copied them from the other teachers, I was the only western teacher in the school. My apologies for missing out that you were actually referring to a Mattayom school.

When I worked in a Mattayom school grades 9 and 10, I reported students who were continually naughty to the Head of the English Department.

No problem. Thanks for your follow up on the Mattayom grades. Reporting continued naughty students is a good option too. The continued naughty students are usually well known for their behavior but usually the Head of the English Departments hands are tied about the students due to our school being in the countryside thus having a harder time keeping and getting students into our IEP program which the tuition pays my paycheck thus unless the student is a severe case which is a danger to themselves or others which I haven't encountered in my class yet, nothing will be done with the continued naughty students.

[joninisaan]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Bangkok. I won't name the specific school.

 

I've taught at 5 uni's in Bkk, the only uni where I've never had some behaviour problems is NIDA.

 

Even the 2 'most prestigious', I've had some behavior problems or been aware of other professors having student behavior problems.

 

One of the worst was a bigger and strong hi-so boy 19 yrs old who beat up a 19 yr old girl in the class room during the morning coffee break and broke her arm when he smashed a student chair (with arm table) over her. He was saying, not quietly, that he wanted to squeeze her tits and she responded with some foul words. (The school then discovered the same boy has been involved in reported brawls several times and had pulled a hand gun during a brawl at a disco at RCA. Yes he was underage to enter but he always had a bodyguard who 'smoothed' things as needed.)

 

His father was asked to come in, he came and when asked by the director to order his son to behave himself responded with; 'no because I want my son to have fun at uni'. Father is a well known XXX shirt politician.

 

At the other 'most prestigious' we started most semesters with a few European exchange students, some lasted the full semester, some pulled out and went home after 3 or 4 classes.

 

Why? Shock at the class room behaviors of many students, and disappointed that so much time was wasted because the professor had to stop again and again and tell the students (mostly girls) to stop talking and listen, plus the lack of respect and arrogance, eg: in one lesson I stopped and told a small group of girls, again, to stop talking, the ring leader responded with 'no, your not my father, and maybe better if you stopped talking and let us chat'. 

 

 

From what I read from your past experience, I have it good. And to think Thailand is scratching their head wondering why Thailands education level rank so low in the world and the ASEAN community.

[Krataiboy]

7 hours ago, akirasan said:

I got told I'm allowed to hit the students but I'd rather not.

 

I give the really naughty ones some responsibility. Like calling the roll at the start of the class, helping me clean up afterwards, running small errands for me, just give them something to do besides acting up.

Anyone unaware that corporal punishment is unlawful in Thai schools has no job teaching.

[joninisaan]

Just now, Krataiboy said:

Anyone unaware that corporal punishment is unlawful in Thai schools has no job teaching.

Yes, I agree with you if you were referring to who told akirasan he was allowed to hit students. But if you're referring to akirasan, he said that he was told he was allowed to hit students but didn't and 

didn't want to hit students.

[stubuzz]

If you haven't written your own classroom management plan-aka (discipline management plan) and discussed it with the students, ask the school for theirs. If they don't know what it is, or don't have one then you know things will never change.

[scorecard]

I do that at the start of every course and very quickly I get the looks on faces 'the monster has arrived'. I don't care I still state the rules.

 

A different slant. Over the years I'd had a few problem students eventually come to me and say, I used to get angry with you for telling me to be quiet and listen and (in some cases) make me sit away from my friends or sit at the front. Now I ned to thank you because after you really push I'm now getting better grades.

 

[ozmeldo]

Change schools - problem solved.

 

[otherstuff1957]

When I first started teaching in Thailand, almost 15 years ago, corporal punishment was common and almost all of the Thai teachers carried a bamboo "pointer" to class.  Things have changed and I have not seen an example of corporal punishment in over 10 years.

 

IMHO using physical punishment is not effective.  It teaches the kids that they must obey when there is a stick pointed at them.  They, of course, immediately understand that the opposite is also true....  no stick means that they don't have to obey!  Hitting kids to make them behave is not only counter-productive, it also teaches them that good behavior is something that is imposed upon them from outside, rather than something that they do of their own accord.

 

Unfortunately, Thai teachers have, by and large, replaced corporal punishment to nothing at all!  Kids who misbehave usually get nothing more than a long lecture that they can just tune out until it is over.

 

Disciplining students, especially students who are old enough to realize that they live in "the land of no consequences" (as I sometimes consider Thailand to be) is a difficult and lengthy process.  Given large class sizes and the fact that many Thai teachers will unconsciously or purposely undermine your efforts, it is an almost impossible task.

 

I don't have any answers for those of you in the Government School trenches,  I gave up and moved to a private school where the students understand and speak English and the class sizes are usually less than 20 students.  Even there, discipline can be a challenge, but being consistent and firm and having a good relationship with the Thai teachers does help a lot.