Mexico calls migrant children separation 'inhumane,' 'racist'

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, bushdoctor said:

 

Trump’s campaign promise of securing the border was a major reason he is the President. 

 

Which doesn't mean a majority of Americans feel that way. and anyway, it doesn't at all answer the question of why the current situation is a crisis.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, bushdoctor said:

He made the campaign promise to secure the border before he was president, so if he did it to cover things up as you accuse him of, he had brilliant foresight. 

He also promised to allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices. He promised a trillion dollar infrastructure program. He promised cheaper and better healthcare. He made lots of promises he hasn't kept.

[attrayant]

8 minutes ago, bushdoctor said:

 

Trump’s campaign promise of securing the border was a major reason he is the President. 

 

 

I don't blame Trump for putting a turd on a hook and fishing for an election victory with it; I blame the gullible electorate that took such bait.

[bushdoctor]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Which doesn't mean a majority of Americans feel that way. and anyway, it doesn't at all answer the question of why the current situation is a crisis.

 

No it doesn’t mean that, nor does swath. 

 

I’m just happy we've established that securing the borde isn’t racist. 

 

 

 

[bushdoctor]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

He also promised to allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices. He promised a trillion dollar infrastructure program. He promised cheaper and better healthcare. He made lots of promises he hasn't kept.

To be fair, his terms are far from over yet. Let’s give him a fair chance. 

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Which doesn't mean a majority of Americans feel that way. and anyway, it doesn't at all answer the question of why the current situation is a crisis.

There will be no answer to this.

 

It is a crisis because some have declared it to be a crisis. And that is for many the end of it: it simply is a crisis.

 

Any questioning of that reasoning will not be answered. Because it is a crisis.

[johnnybangkok]

26 minutes ago, bushdoctor said:

To be fair, his terms are far from over yet. Let’s give him a fair chance. 

Ahh the 'let's give him a fair chance' argument.  Does it not even bother you one bit that the guy is a pathological liar? I mean what does he have to do/say that will open your eyes to what this guy is truly about? He's the President of the United States for gods sake but the standards and integrity insisted on before by every Republican with every Democratic POTUS doesn't seem to apply to him. 

A quick visit to http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ will reveal that nearly 70% of what comes out of his mouth is either completely false or mostly false. 70%!!!!. None of this bothers you? Your head of government lied throughout his campaign and continues to do so ON A DAILY BASIS and all you hear from you lot is 'lets give him a chance' or 'but the stock market......' or 'he's keeping his campaign promises'.

He's keeping his promises? Like his promise to 'drain the swamp' and then appointing the biggest bunch of millionaires and billionaires to a cabinet ever seen in US history (that's if we can keep up with the revolving door in the WH these days)? Or green lighting the oil industry to go back to their dodgy back-hander ways whilst silencing the EPA by appointing their greatest critic (and climate change denier) to head it all up? Or his promise to not cut Medicaid/Medicare whilst doing exactly that. And just wait until he gets his hands on Dodd-Frank so that his Wall Street pals can REALLY make some cash.

It's all lies, deceit and jobs for the boys but yes, by all means, give him a chance. Give him a chance to lie some more. Give him a chance to make even more obscene amounts of money for himself, his family and his mates. Give him a chance to well and truly ruin the USA not only in the eyes of the world but for ordinary working class people that I assume you are.

Open your eyes, smell the roses and stop trying to defend the indefensible. The US is a world joke now and your cognitive bias is really showing you as part of the problem and not the solution.   

[mcambl61]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Ahh the 'let's give him a fair chance' argument.  Does it not even bother you one bit that the guy is a pathological liar? I mean what does he have to do/say that will open your eyes to what this guy is truly about? He's the President of the United States for gods sake but the standards and integrity insisted on before by every Republican with every Democratic POTUS doesn't seem to apply to him. 

A quick visit to http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ will reveal that nearly 70% of what comes out of his mouth is either completely false or mostly false. 70%!!!!. None of this bothers you? Your head of government lied throughout his campaign and continues to do so ON A DAILY BASIS and all you hear from you lot is 'lets give him a chance' or 'but the stock market......' or 'he's keeping his campaign promises'.

He's keeping his promises? Like his promise to 'drain the swamp' and then appointing the biggest bunch of millionaires and billionaires to a cabinet ever seen in US history (that's if we can keep up with the revolving door in the WH these days)? Or green lighting the oil industry to go back to their dodgy back-hander ways whilst silencing the EPA by appointing their greatest critic (and climate change denier) to head it all up? Or his promise to not cut Medicaid/Medicare whilst doing exactly that. And just wait until he gets his hands on Dodd-Frank so that his Wall Street pals can REALLY make some cash.

It's all lies, deceit and jobs for the boys but yes, by all means, give him a chance. Give him a chance to lie some more. Give him a chance to make even more obscene amounts of money for himself, his family and his mates. Give him a chance to well and truly ruin the USA not only in the eyes of the world but for ordinary working class people that I assume you are.

Open your eyes, smell the roses and stop trying to defend the indefensible. The US is a world joke now and your cognitive bias is really showing you as part of the problem and not the solution.   

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/365393-how-quickly-ny-times-forgets-obamas-lies-and-frauds

the government IS the problem not the solution. The bureaucrats want to protect their territory power and money. They could care less about the average citizen. don't be so naive to think the socialist muppet was anything but a self involved arrogant community organizer that served whoever was holding the strings. Bush was a disaster as well.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, mcambl61 said:

 

There is nothing gullible about wanting to properly enforce the southern border and fix the ridiculous immigration loopholes. There is a lot of money out there that does not want this done to exploit cheap labor. can we agree on that part?

Ad there are cheaper and more effective ways of putting a huge crimp in illegal immigration if you think that's important. Like putting employers who hire illegals in prison. That's a lot less people to incarcerate with a lot greater effect. Where are Trump's angry tweets about this?

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, mcambl61 said:

so we should remove him because you don't like him? lets just ignore that pesky constitution thing .

 

You mean like this?

Trump says illegal immigrants should be deported with 'no judges or court cases'

I really can't believe you went there. Didn't Trump take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, bristolboy said:

You mean like this?

Trump says illegal immigrants should be deported with 'no judges or court cases'

I really can't believe you went there. Didn't Trump take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States?

 

Where in the constitution does it say that illegal immigrants have to go before a court? When they wrote it, far as I know there were no such people so I doubt the constitution includes anything about illegal immigrants.

Just interested.

[Scott]

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Where in the constitution does it say that illegal immigrants have to go before a court? When they wrote it, far as I know there were no such people so I doubt the constitution includes anything about illegal immigrants.

Just interested.

It's covered here:

 

The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a due process clause. Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the due process clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the government outside the sanction of law.^[1] The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the clauses more broadly, concluding that these clauses provide four protections: procedural due process (in civil and criminal proceedings), substantive due process, a prohibition against vague laws, and as the vehicle for the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_Process_Clause

 

 

[bushdoctor]

13 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Which doesn't mean a majority of Americans feel that way. and anyway, it doesn't at all answer the question of why the current situation is a crisis.

 

13 hours ago, stevenl said:

There will be no answer to this.

 

It is a crisis because some have declared it to be a crisis. And that is for many the end of it: it simply is a crisis.

 

Any questioning of that reasoning will not be answered. Because it is a crisis.

 

The whole premise of proving or not proving a crisis is naive. Why would anyone have to prove that there is a crisis in order to secure the border? Why not prevent problems that may be associated with open borders policy by requiring proof of citizenship for anyone who wants to enjoy the national right (not privilege) to enter the country? 

 

It reminds me of a father who asks his 10 year old son to lock the door for bedtime, and the son protests, crying why should we lock the door....I’ve forgotten to do it before and we haven’t been robbed or killed yet. 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by bushdoctor

[bushdoctor]

6 minutes ago, Scott said:

It's covered here:

 

The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a due process clause. Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the due process clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the government outside the sanction of law.^[1] The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the clauses more broadly, concluding that these clauses provide four protections: procedural due process (in civil and criminal proceedings), substantive due process, a prohibition against vague laws, and as the vehicle for the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_Process_Clause

 

 

 

The international border crossing is different due to national security issues. As an example, there is no need for reasonable suspicion to search you or your belingings upon entry. They can even take your phone and computers and search those for content without cause, other than you are entering the USA. 

[Scott]

24 minutes ago, bushdoctor said:

 

The international border crossing is different due to national security issues. As an example, there is no need for reasonable suspicion to search you or your belingings upon entry. They can even take your phone and computers and search those for content without cause, other than you are entering the USA. 

They can deny you entry, they can arrest you for suspicion of having illegal/illicit substances, but once on US soil, you are still presumed innocent until proven guilty.   Until the current administration, the idea of denying due process of law hasn't really been open for discussion.  

 

[bushdoctor]

You would think so, but it actually applies to the border area, not only powers of entry. On the ACLU website they even mention that it is not limited to only border crossings, though I doubt they support it. 

 

• these basic constitutional principles do not apply fully at our borders. For example, at border crossings (also called "ports of entry"), federal authorities do not need a warrant or even suspicion of wrongdoing to justify conducting what courts have called a "routine search," such as searching luggage or a vehicle.
• Even in places far removed from the border, deep into the interior of the country, immigration officials enjoy broad—though not limitless—powers. Specifically, federal regulations give U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) authority to operate within 100 miles of any U.S. "external boundary."
• In this 100-mile zone, Border Patrol agents have certain additional authorities. For instance, Border Patrol can operate immigration checkpoints.

 

https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

 

 

[bushdoctor]

Basically you would outline the entire USA with a 100 mile zone, coastlines and all. Even a 20 mile zone would apply to most illegal immigrants caught crossing the border.