Must Read Trump backs down, orders end to family separations at U.S. border

[mtls2005]

Regarding the "whatabout-ism" put forth by jb61 and BuaBS, which seems irrelevant to this current issue, there seems to be some conflation of illegal immigration and those seeking asylum.

 

And the Obama administration strove to keep families together until several courts interpreted and applied the Flores Settlement.

 

All that said, this is about the policy invoked and since revoked, by the Trump administration, meant to deter asylum seekers, and woefully put into action with little/no preparation.

 

Maybe start a new thread about people who are not currently President?

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I've taken the liberty of slightly revising the headline for another long-running thread here on TFV re Britain to make it applicable to the U.S.

 

Trump has created chaos in the U.S. – nobody (sane) voted for this

 

[Andaman Al]

2 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Regarding the "whatabout-ism" put forth by jb61 and BuaBS, which seems irrelevant to this current issue, there seems to be some conflation of illegal immigration and those seeking asylum.

 

And the Obama administration strove to keep families together until several courts interpreted and applied the Flores Settlement.

 

All that said, this is about the policy invoked and since revoked, by the Trump administration, meant to deter asylum seekers, and woefully put into action with little/no preparation.

 

Maybe start a new thread about people who are not currently President?

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

It's kind of amusing how people want to credit all the jobs, economy and stock market figures to Trump and Republicans, while claiming all the failures in immigration are a result of previous Presidents and political party's. But but Immigration laws have been like this for 10 years....yeeees! and the stock market has been on a linear increase for 10 years, Jobs figures have been on a linear decline to their current lows for 10 years blah blah blah. As John Cleese famously describes in a youtube video, people who are stupid are too stupid to be able to realize they are stupid. If Trump is owning the stock market and jobs figures, he needs to own the immigration issue or vice versa, you can't pick and choose....not amongst intelligent people anyway.

[Becker]

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

How many guards do you need per mile? x 4 to cover 365/24/7  (3 shifts plus one on leave, holiday, sick). You would need a literal army of workers willing to work at very low cost. Where would you find them?   wait a minute....how about you create an army of guards from the people who want to enter the country and work for ultra low wages. Recruit the people at the border entry points and give them all jobs guarding the wall!

You're a f*****g genius! Al for Prez!!!!

[Andaman Al]

4 hours ago, jb61 said:

Newsweek, May 30, 2018

OBAMA HELD MORE THAN DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN IN SHELTERS COMPARED TO TRUMP WHITE HOUSE

BY CHANTAL DA SILVA ON 5/30/18 AT 10:26 AM

 

Newsweek: 5/30/18

Department of Health and Human Services'(HHS) Administration for Children and Families spokesperson Kenneth Wolfe told Newsweek on Wednesday that it had as many as 10,852 undocumented children in its custody—a significant jump from the 8,886 that were in the agency's custody on April 29, according to the Washington Post. spokesman for HHS’s Administration for Children and Families told

In fiscal year 2013, under the Barack Obama administration, the HHS Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) had as many as 25,000 unaccompanied children in its care across 80 shelters, according to a July 2014 article in Mother Jones.

 

 

 

Obama also tortured them and had 13 children a night sacrificed to lucifer in statanic muslim ancient slave rituals where their hearts would be torn out whilst alive and fed to the members of his administration. The remainder of the KIdnapped Immigrant Children were used in mass explosive experiments using latest artillery and smart bombs on the ranges of Area 51 and any survivors were sent to a pedophile ring in the basement of a busy New York Pizzeria that did not in fact have a basement, where the then Secretary of State would take time out of her busy schedule of international travel and trade deals to personally groom the children where they were used by her husbands friends who contributed the money it cost to the Clinton foundation whose proceeds have been used to secretly purchase fissile material to supply to Kim Jong Un to refine and sell to ISIS, who have made a series of secret nuclear weapons hidden in Democrat offices throughout the USA and the secret activation code was hidden in portraits of famous people with the last 4 digits of the code hidden in a portrait of Trump and that is why he used money from his own foundation to buy the portrait so he could save the world and the secret code would not fall into the hands of the reptilian child offspring of the coupling of Obama and the Kenyan Muslim Succubus that still is locked inside the secret illuminate room in the west wing that can only be opened magically when a white virgin intern gives a BJ to a cigar smoking President.

 

Is there anything you Trump supporters have noticed I have missed?

[BuaBS]

3 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Regarding the "whatabout-ism" put forth by jb61 and BuaBS, which seems irrelevant to this current issue, there seems to be some conflation of illegal immigration and those seeking asylum.

 

And the Obama administration strove to keep families together until several courts interpreted and applied the Flores Settlement.

 

All that said, this is about the policy invoked and since revoked, by the Trump administration, meant to deter asylum seekers, and woefully put into action with little/no preparation.

 

Maybe start a new thread about people who are not currently President?

 

 

 

 

The current issue is that Trump backed down because of MSM pressure with fake news reports about crying children in cages.

Outrages responces like Henri Fonda pedofile threat , attacking the first lady ,....

If they are refugees from other south and mid american countries , they should have asked asylum in mexico.

Solution to this mess is to bus them all back to mexico. Refugees (they aren't really) and economic migrants along with illegals.

 

And for the poster who said it would take too much manpower to garde the border/wall : camera's , drones , remote controled deterence . With the enormous MIC/army and all their electronic surveilance , they can't garde a border ?

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, BuaBS said:

The current issue is that Trump backed down because of MSM pressure with fake news reports about crying children in cages.

Outrages responces like Henri Fonda pedofile threat , attacking the first lady ,....

If they are refugees from other south and mid american countries , they should have asked asylum in mexico.

Solution to this mess is to bus them all back to mexico. Refugees (they aren't really) and economic migrants along with illegals.

 

And for the poster who said it would take too much manpower to garde the border/wall : camera's , drones , remote controled deterence . With the enormous MIC/army and all their electronic surveilance , they can't garde a border ?

 

How good is the USA at guarding its border? And it has a helluva lot more resources than does Mexico.

[Andaman Al]

20 minutes ago, BuaBS said:

If they are refugees from other south and mid american countries , they should have asked asylum in mexico.

Solution to this mess is to bus them all back to mexico. Refugees (they aren't really) and economic migrants along with illegals.

Your family were economic migrants and lets say they were from Europe then by your reckoning they should have stopped off in Iceland or Greenland to claim their new home.

 

22 minutes ago, BuaBS said:

And for the poster who said it would take too much manpower to garde the border/wall : camera's , drones , remote controled deterence . With the enormous MIC/army and all their electronic surveilance , they can't garde a border ?

Well that's the whole point. If you have hi tech intelligent assets you DONT need a wall. God it's like watching paint dry. And talking of intelligence, it is GUARD.

[Andaman Al]

56 minutes ago, BuaBS said:

The current issue is that Trump backed down because of MSM pressure with fake news reports about crying children in cages.

Outrages responces like Henri Fonda pedofile threat , attacking the first lady ,....

Trump backed down because he knows he is losing support because his decision was crap. A decision that was emboldened by listening to white supremacist trash like Stephen Miller.

 

Attacking the First Lady? You mean the illegal immigrant first lady? You don't like illegal Mexican potato pickers but any East European that gets her tits out for the lads should be given a free pass for her and her chain immigrant family members?

Edited June 21, 2018 by Andaman Al

[tropo]

15 hours ago, Wanderer555 said:

What solution do you suggest to humanely reduce illegal immigration into the United States, including protecting these people from exploitation, human trafficking, rape and/or murder as they make the long dangerous and illegal journey from Central America?

Yes, the critics will scream "injustice" from their soapboxes, but they are short on solutions. Perhaps they would prefer the US to take in all illegal immigrants with children, (no matter whose children they are) offer instant citizenship, and set them up in beautiful beachside villas. The new way to get into the US - grab as many children as you can.

 

 

[Basil B]

Problem is the Dems need to realign their policy or it will backlash on them as Trump and the Republicans will be accusing them of being too liberal on illegal immigrants.

[Basil B]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

Yes, the critics will scream "injustice" from their soapboxes, but they are short on solutions. Perhaps they would prefer the US to take in all illegal immigrants with children, (no matter whose children they are) offer instant citizenship, and set them up in beautiful beachside villas. The new way to get into the US - grab as many children as you can.

 

 

One should understand why these people are seeking a better life in the US...

 

One way to stop this would be to help these people improve there quality of life in their own countries, unfortunately Trumps trade war is only going to make things worse for them.

 

[tropo]

7 minutes ago, Basil B said:

One should understand why these people are seeking a better life in the US...

 

One way to stop this would be to help these people improve there quality of life in their own countries, unfortunately Trumps trade war is only going to make things worse for them.

 

One does understand poverty and one does understand they are looking for a better life.

 

What a brilliant solution that is. They can spend trillions of dollars improving the economy of poor countries so that they will prefer to stay home. Money grows on trees in the US, doesn't it?

 

Why not spend only billions of dollars and make an impenetrable wall? They won't start their journey if they have no chance of finishing it. Mexico can deal with them.

Edited June 21, 2018 by tropo

[Basil B]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

What a brilliant solution that is. They can spend trillions of dollars improving the economy of poor countries so that they will prefer to stay home.

 

Why not spend only billions of dollars and make an impenetrable wall. They won't start their journey if they have no chance of finishing it. Mexico can deal with them.

And when they have finished it they will be spending zillions on repairing it, and stopping them tunneling under it, flying over it and sailing round it. 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

What a brilliant solution that is. They can spend trillions of dollars improving the economy of poor countries so that they will prefer to stay home. Money grows on trees in the US, doesn't it?

 

Why not spend only billions of dollars and make an impenetrable wall? They won't start their journey if they have no chance of finishing it. Mexico can deal with them.

Yes, why not make an impenetrable wall? You actually believe there is such a thing?  Maybe for a short stretch. But as long as this one has to be?.

 

Texas smugglers say Trump's border wall wouldn't stop immigrants, drugs from pouring across the border

If the Trump administration follows through on the president's promises to build a border wall, would it actually stop undocumented immigrants and illegal drugs? Two former smugglers explain how they'd work around it.

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01/25/texas-smugglers-say-trumps-border-wall-wouldnt-stop-immigrants-drugs-p/

 

5 Problems ‘the Wall’ Won’t Solve

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/02/trump-wall-mexico-problems-immigration-214837

 

Why the Wall Won’t Work

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-wall-wont-work

 

And there's also this little problem.

To Pay for Wall, Trump Would Cut Proven Border Security Measures

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/us/politics/trump-border-wall-funding-surveillance.html

[jackh]

12 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Real Americans? Is that some sort of secret language for white men? Color hating folks, who think the past was unbelievably great? When American prospects were HUUUGGGE? Careful with jingoistic nonsense language please. Especially when you have not devoted five minutes of your own intellect, to the consideration of what they mean. Explain your version of real American to me. I am an American, but I guess I am fake, since:

 

1. I do object to kids being locked up in cages, away from their folks.

2. I think American industry invites, and wants illegal immigrants to work for them (surprise, surprise).

3. I think it is ridiculous to talk about illegal immigration if you are incapable or unwilling to discuss reform of the legal immigration system, which is dysfunctional and completely broken. Nobody touches that one.

4. I think protecting public lands and having respect, rather than disdain for nature, is a GOOD thing. 

5. I think that a woman should have the right to decide what to do with her body, and be able to choose abortion, when she is unwilling to care for the child (the last thing in the world this planet needs is another child).

6. I believe that long held alliances and treaties deserve respect. Same applies to foreign leaders. And I believe showing animosity toward close allies, while coddling dictators is just bad policy, or the ample demonstration of no policy. 

7. The state department needs to be bolstered and protected, not decimated. Those 40 plus ambassadorships, that remain vacant need to be filled quickly.

8. I believe the last thing we need right now is more division and hatred. 

9. Free trade is a positive thing for the US economy. Trade wars are infantile, unnecessary, and could result in a significant slowing down of the American and world economy, which would be the end of the Trump era. 

10. The NFL is completely within it's right to demonstrate in whatever way it sees fit. Alot of white men in the US have a very hard time accepting the problem between law enforcement and people of color. It is real. And I am sympathetic, even though I have law enforcement people in my family. I am hopeful that every last player, black or white, stays in the locker room, the entire time the national anthem is played this entire season. That would sure send a message to brain dead, jingoistic, false patriot men like Trump and the NFL owners. Prior to WWII, standing for the national anthem was not even required. It was something dreamed up by the War Department, to create a sense of patriotism. Not standing now is not a sign of disrespect for the flag, the military or the nation. It is a prerogative. Claiming otherwise is nationalism. And it is fake, it is not patriotism. If anything, it is the opposite of patriotism. Have you ever fought for your country? Do not confuse the two, as Trump has.  It is remarkable how the people who claim disrespect for the military the loudest, are often the cowards who were too afraid to serve, when they were called upon, by their nation. Trump got five deferments to serve. That makes him a coward, and disqualifies him morally, from engaging in this discussion. Many military men feel differently than this clown:

 

 

"I can tell you, speaking for three generations of my family, it is PRECISELY for men like Kaepernick, and his right to peacefully protest injustice, that we were willing to serve," saidMichael Sands, a Green Beret who is the son of a World War II veteran and father of an Army officer who served in Afghanistan. "Want to respect the American flag? Then respect the ideals for which it stands. Bullying language and calling peaceful protesters 'sons of bitches' who should be fired aren't among them."

 

"If you think he's disrespecting veterans or America, he's not. He is peacefully protesting, making people feel uncomfortable, and bringing press to an issue we should have already been aware of."

 

Where is the outrage about the Iraq War? Where is our Chilcot [the UK investigation into the war]?" 

"If these people truly gave a s--- about us veterans they would've kicked down the doors on the Capitol and demanded a real inquiry into the deaths at the [Department of Veterans Affairs] and the insane number of veterans committing suicide."

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/veterans-colin-kaepernick-2016-9

 

 

Navy veteran Jeff Dyche said on Twitter: "If you think I joined the #USNavy so NFL football players can kneel in protest of racial injustice, you would be correct. #TakeTheKnee."

 

Jeffrey Correa, an Air Force veteran, said: "I'm a #veteran and I'm proud to have fought for your right to #TakeTheKnee. A flag and an anthem are meaningless without values behind them."

 

David Chasteen, a soldier, said, "Served in combat multiple times. I never did anything as brave as #takeaknee Nor as likely to fulfill the promise of 'justice for all.'"

 

http://www.newsweek.com/military-veteran-kneeling-nfl-national-anthem-670341

 

I admit. I do not buy into his nonsense. Not on any level. Not for a nanosecond. I am a New Yorker. I knew who he was 35 years ago. Once a fraudulent criminal, always a criminal. 

 

So, I guess I am not a real American?

 

 

Spoken like a true socialist democrat. Sad

[neeray]

20 minutes ago, Basil B said:

One should understand why these people are seeking a better life in the US...

 

One way to stop this would be to help these people improve there quality of life in their own countries, unfortunately Trumps trade war is only going to make things worse for them.

 

Agreed but next he will have to back track on the trade wars and his mistreatment of allies. trump is going to find out what crow tastes like.

[canthai55]

19 minutes ago, Basil B said:

One way to stop this would be to help these people improve there quality of life in their own countries,

Many fleeing Central America because of the violence perpetrated by drug gangs.

Solution - end the War on Drugs. Save Billions.

Stop being the Worlds Bully, starting Wars, backing  Fascists - save Trillions

Use all this $$$ to help people, not make war on and oppress them.

In one fell swoop drug related violence ceases, cartels are out of business, and the USA can return to its former place as -

 

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

[Andaman Al]

5 minutes ago, jackh said:

Spoken like a true socialist democrat. Sad

Better than speaking the exact opposite of everything he said as that would be speaking like an as* hole. Even sadder.

[bristolboy]

11 minutes ago, jackh said:

Spoken like a true socialist democrat. Sad

Spoken like a true economic illiterate.

[jackh]

10 hours ago, Thaidream said:

 

The New Zealand article as well as Spidermikes post really hits the mark and the full truth.  Not only are children being separated but  US Immigration refuses to even tell the mother/father where their children are and the children have no idea where their parents are.

 

What will eventually happen is if the parents are deported- the children will go into temporary foster care and a judge will set a custody hearing.  Since the parents have been deported-there is no way to attend the hearing and make their case.  The children then end  up in permanent foster care; the parents lose all rights and the children go up for adoption. It has happened before and will happen again.

 

Some of us complain about the Thai Immigration bureaucracy. Thank the Lord- none of us are involved in the Us Immigration circus.  And Trump has made it even more heartless  than it ever was.

 

I grew up in America- my grandparents came from Europe as immigrants and built a life in America.  In today's America- they wouldn't be allowed to stay.  I served in the US military but this is not the America I went to war for. Most Americans realize that Trump does not represent American values and at the first opportunity- this narcissistic SOB will be sent to the scrap head of History.

 

Oh my...another my parents were immigrants story. So what's your point?  Best you get a grip on reality. BIG difference between an immigrant and an ILLEGAL immigrant. The former (including their offspring) are not welcome here. They are criminals. 

 

You want to immigrate to the USA? Do it legally, and you are all welcomed. Be a criminal and face whats coming to you. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[lannarebirth]

6 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Call me old fashioned, but after an epiphany whilst grabbing an afternoon nap, what will really make America great again..................lighting the beacon on Lady Liberty and allowing those in the world who believe America to be the greatest country on Earth to enter its dominions and make it great again. There are millions of people willing to work hard, for low wages, who are industrious and would be so grateful to be able to give their children the chance to live the American dream. People that could repopulate the devastated  towns and city's full of abandoned property. People willing to work in the farming and manufacturing jobs that the redneck 'stay at home' Trump supporters don't want to do.

 

It was this very process that made America great in the middle of the 20th century. Your country is only great, when people believe it is great and want to join the community. When you turn your back on the people you inspire to make thousand mile treacherous journey's with children, you are not great, you are not christian you are pitiful. Imagine all the taxes and spending power that these people would create, imagine what the manufacturing industries could do...it could match China's labour costs (and the workers would be happy), and of course, any bad folks you kick them out and jail them just like you would any other US citizen. Open the door to hard working families, MAGA. Maybe Trump needs an afternoon nap.

 

I share your sentiments but the process really has to start in these people's countries of origin. That means an overhaul of the LEGAL immigration system, which is in shambles at least as much as the illegal immigration prevention system. That requires political courage and leadership. Two things that haven't been on display in the US in decades. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by lannarebirth

[Andaman Al]

41 minutes ago, jackh said:

Be a criminal and face whats coming to you. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Your hero will be choking on those words in the foreseeable future. I have stockpiled popcorn for it. The popcorn has an expiry date but I know it will be used well before that.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

And when they have finished it they will be spending zillions on repairing it, and stopping them tunneling under it, flying over it and sailing round it. 

It's a much better idea than propping up the economy of Mexico, Central America and South America in the hope they won't come. Now that deserves a "rolling on the floor laughing my face off".... Pay them to stay at home.

 

OK, granted someone might find a way through or over the wall, but they won't be strolling in like they currently do.  

[riclag]

•  

  11 hours ago, bristolboy said:

How exactly do these people in your rather unfortunate choice of words "suck off the system"?, (I assume you mean parasitizing the system and not giving it great joy)

 "Since the mid-1960s, America has welcomed nearly 30 million legal immigrants and received perhaps another 15 million illegals, numbers unprecedented in our history. These immigrants have picked our fruit, cleaned our homes, cut our grass, worked in our factories, and washed our cars. But they have also crowded into our hospital emergency rooms, schools, and government-subsidized aid programs, sparking a fierce debate about their contributions to our society and the costs they impose on it".

https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-unskilled-immigrants-hurt-our-economy-12946.html

 

Come in legal,or don't come at all. 

[bristolboy]

24 minutes ago, riclag said:

•  

  11 hours ago, bristolboy said:

How exactly do these people in your rather unfortunate choice of words "suck off the system"?, (I assume you mean parasitizing the system and not giving it great joy)

 "Since the mid-1960s, America has welcomed nearly 30 million legal immigrants and received perhaps another 15 million illegals, numbers unprecedented in our history. These immigrants have picked our fruit, cleaned our homes, cut our grass, worked in our factories, and washed our cars. But they have also crowded into our hospital emergency rooms, schools, and government-subsidized aid programs, sparking a fierce debate about their contributions to our society and the costs they impose on it".

https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-unskilled-immigrants-hurt-our-economy-12946.html

 

Come in legal,or don't come at all. 

Actuallly, the article you cited is an attack immigration, in general legal and illegal. And it's remarkably one sided.It's like looking at someone's finances and only paying attention to the  expenditures not the income.

And once again, if Trump really wanted to put a dent in illegal immigration, he could back instituting e-verify nationwide as he promised. But that could mean putting owners in prison. How likely do you think that is?

Edited June 21, 2018 by bristolboy

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

•  

  11 hours ago, bristolboy said:

How exactly do these people in your rather unfortunate choice of words "suck off the system"?, (I assume you mean parasitizing the system and not giving it great joy)

 "Since the mid-1960s, America has welcomed nearly 30 million legal immigrants and received perhaps another 15 million illegals, numbers unprecedented in our history. These immigrants have picked our fruit, cleaned our homes, cut our grass, worked in our factories, and washed our cars. But they have also crowded into our hospital emergency rooms, schools, and government-subsidized aid programs, sparking a fierce debate about their contributions to our society and the costs they impose on it".

https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-unskilled-immigrants-hurt-our-economy-12946.html

 

Come in legal,or don't come at all. 

To be honest that article is so bad I even felt like an ass_hole reading it and I am not the intended audience. Anyone who subscribes to the mentality just expressed in the short cut and paste you have done does not deserve to belong in civilized society. 

 

Quote

These immigrants have picked our fruit, cleaned our homes, cut our grass, worked in our factories, and washed our cars.

and then this:

 

Quote

But they have also crowded into our hospital emergency rooms, schools, and government-subsidized aid programs, sparking a fierce debate about their contributions to our society and the costs they impose on it"

 

Sounds like something you would have read in the 60's when they were planning to abolish apartheid with the Blacks and allow them into "our" schools and "our" buses.

 

riclag, as you posted it then you own it and this comment is aimed at you (a principle that most if not all of the 'adults' on here would agree with). If you subscribe to this type of shameful crap then you really should find another forum to frequent because you are not civilized enough to be on this one, and that is a pretty low bar you are hitting.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Andaman Al

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, jackh said:

Oh my...another my parents were immigrants story. So what's your point?  Best you get a grip on reality. BIG difference between an immigrant and an ILLEGAL immigrant. The former (including their offspring) are not welcome here. They are criminals. 

 

You want to immigrate to the USA? Do it legally, and you are all welcomed. Be a criminal and face whats coming to you. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

What visas did your forefathers have when they arrived in America?

[bushdoctor]

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by bushdoctor

[Becker]

56 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What visas did your forefathers have when they arrived in America?

Don't mess with jackh, he's a REAL American!