Chiang Rai: Search teams ‘making headway’

[jenny2017]

1 minute ago, PhuketSarah said:

El zilcho. Which is why it is irresponsible  to risk other lives.  Whoever's in charge needs to  make the announcement it's over,  and the task is to  simply attempt to recover bodies.

How could this assistant coach take 12 kids into a cave that knowingly floods in the rainy season starting in June? He's the only guy to blame, not the poor kids. 

[PhuketSarah]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well, there is a lot we don't know. Areas are totally flooded now but we don't know the timing of how that developed so it's possible they saw they were trapped and retreated to a higher ground area while they still could. It's also possible they attempted to escape the first day and all drowned. 

But there's  a lot more that we do know. The situation is and was non-survivable. 

[jenny2017]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well, there is a lot we don't know. Areas are totally flooded now but we don't know the timing of how that developed so it's possible they saw they were trapped and retreated to a higher ground area while they still could. It's also possible they attempted to escape the first day and all drowned. 

Many details just don't make sense. They've found their bags and shoes in an area that wasn't flooded? Or was it flooded? 

[KiwiKiwi]

9 minutes ago, PhuketSarah said:

El zilcho. Which is why it is irresponsible  to risk other lives.  Whoever's in charge needs to  make the announcement it's over,  and the task is to  simply attempt to recover bodies.

FWIW, I think they should continue and see if the kids are at Pattaya Beach. If not, I believe they're all done, and the operation should morph into recovery mode. However, there will be some serious recriminations for getting it so wrong, because that will have been a judgmental catastrophe.

Edited July 1, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[KiwiKiwi]

7 minutes ago, PhuketSarah said:

But there's  a lot more that we do know. The situation is and was non-survivable. 

 

I think that statement is probably right Sadly. Tell it like the facts suggest it is, not how we might wish it to be.

Edited July 1, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[eeworldwide]

The problem is quite simply that unlike an investigation in say perhaps, the UK, this whole thing has been extremely badly managed. As soon as the boys were discovered to have not come out of the cave, the military should have been alerted, and the entire place sealed off. They should then have quickly identified the need for experts and kept the people involved to an absolute minimum. The whole thing has turned into a homogenous mess with every tom dick and harry turning up from every corner of the globe, and every province in the area "ready to help", so there's no clear communication and no real plan. We the public have no idea of what's really being communicated and a clear plan of action. I don't know the geography of the cave very well, but it seems strange to me that they have not located the boys, and there is also no sign of any clothes that might have come off a drowning body. They've pumped out millions of gallons of water, and they've found nothing at all. I don't believe that the boys have crawled all the way to Pattaya Beach cave - if they did - how the heck has nobody else managed to get there yet? I think they're either in the caves to the north, or they found another way out and are lost in the jungle. IT's bonkers that it's taken an entire week for even ONE expert seal or diver to have reached the cave  - and I'd be willing to bet hard money that they're not in Pattaya Beach.

[cardinalblue]

Is a specific function of the EOC requesting volunteers like bird nest collectors to show up at the cave?

 

Usually once the EOC is secured, the IC uses the media to announce/advise the public to stay away from the working area...

 

wish they woukd report on the effectiveness and status of the infrared machinery? has the BAT yet arrived at the scene that could pinpoint the location of the group?

 

It will also be interesting to see if and when this turns to a recovery operation? Probably huge difference between west and east on this one...

 

my guess is asian cultures will go on much longer in search/rescue mode than the west who usually instill artificial deadlines and act accordingly of the transition from rescue to recovery

 

my guess is the UK cave experts and U.S. Military will determine an end game in mind and withdraw...US military is very efficient right or wrong but they are not going to hang around weeks and weeks turning into months...the U.S. Military is more driven by cost/benefit analysis of the task and their own agenda....

[PhuketSarah]

8 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Many details just don't make sense. They've found their bags and shoes in an area that wasn't flooded? Or was it flooded? 

They took their shoes off to go swimming in an attempt to get out. That tells me they drowned.  I might even start looking for bodies down stream from the cave that already washed out. 

[Thailand]

9 minutes ago, PhuketSarah said:

But there's  a lot more that we do know. The situation is and was non-survivable. 

There have been many incredible stories of survival against seemingly insurmountable odds.

Sadly it is surely leaning heavily in that direction now, hoping for the impossible or the incredible.

[The Deerhunter]

3 hours ago, Colabamumbai said:

There should be no onlookers, this is a crime scene.

Been too close to the white line again?

(he cops got me out of the car and asked me if I could walk the white line. I got down on my hands and knees and told them I could snort it.)

Edited July 1, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, steve73 said:

According to google maps the main entrance is around 1km from the border (assuming the "pin" to be correct)... obviously it does not show the direction of the cave, but it's possible that it gets closer at some parts.  As a point of interest, the 3-D option give a pretty clear indication of the terrain.

 

https://www.google.co.th/maps/place/ถ้ำหลวง+ขุนน้ำนางนอน/@20.3704579,99.874613,6691m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sTham+Luang+Cave,+Pong+Pha,+Mae+Sai+District,+Chiang+Rai!3m4!1s0x30d6f50b60f5ea49:0xf0ff823de76aafaa!8m2!3d20.3819498!4d99.8488249

 

The entrance is the closest part of the cave to the border the cave itself heads away from the border and has only one entrance. So it does not get closer than a kilometer to the border. I suppose smugglers could have used it for storage, but not for smuggling across the border.

[rebo]

36 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

The entrance is the closest part of the cave to the border the cave itself heads away from the border and has only one entrance. So it does not get closer than a kilometer to the border. I suppose smugglers could have used it for storage, but not for smuggling across the border.

Here you see the cave in GoogleEarth:
https://www.thailandcaves.shepton.org.uk/files/cavesurveys/tlsge.kmz

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, PhuketSarah said:

They took their shoes off to go swimming in an attempt to get out. That tells me they drowned.  I might even start looking for bodies down stream from the cave that already washed out. 

There is no "downstream " for washed out water , that is why they are trying to get the water out .

   You seem to have no idea about the situation at all . Making things up like the temperature , what clothes they were wearing and washed out water .

   You are clueless and so should refrain from commenting in the future

[canuckamuck]

16 minutes ago, rebo said:

Here you see the cave in GoogleEarth:
https://www.thailandcaves.shepton.org.uk/files/cavesurveys/tlsge.kmz

Thanks for that, I did not know that the border curled around the back side of the mountain. But still the closest point front the tunnel to the cave is more than a kilometer, and the entrance is on the far side 3 km from the closest border point.

Are you suggesting that the smugglers know another entrance.

[steve73]

55 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

The entrance is the closest part of the cave to the border the cave itself heads away from the border and has only one entrance. So it does not get closer than a kilometer to the border. I suppose smugglers could have used it for storage, but not for smuggling across the border.

The map in rebo's post after your's does seem to indicated it gets much closer to the border.... but probably not enough to actually reach it, although the unsurveyed (and unmapped) 400m extension of the Monk's Series may possibly reach....    

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, eeworldwide said:

IT's bonkers that it's taken an entire week for even ONE expert seal or diver to have reached the cave 

Completely untrue , there were expert divers in the cave on the next day

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Are you suggesting that the smugglers know another entrance.

Why would smugglers need to use a cave ?

They can just walk across the border

[rebo]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

The entrance is the closest part of the cave to the border the cave itself heads away from the border

 

7 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I did not know that the border curled around the back side of the mountain.

Most important: You wrote something ...

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Benroon said:

More and more weight is being added to there being rather large hauls of drugs in these caves given its location which certain people do not want discovered! I simply don’t believe that the worlds best can’t  find these people after all this time! 

LOL

[CanuckThai]

A bit odd that foreign news (CNN, BBC, CBC etc) is quiet.  US forces CO usually give a briefings with an update....

[chang1]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well, there is a lot we don't know. Areas are totally flooded now but we don't know the timing of how that developed so it's possible they saw they were trapped and retreated to a higher ground area while they still could. It's also possible they attempted to escape the first day and all drowned. 

Exactly how I am looking at the situation with the little information we have.

I find it amazing how people are writing them off so soon. They went in to a dry cave so would have been able to move a lot easier than the rescuers can. They could also move through small gaps easier. Assuming they have reached a space with enough air they can survive for weeks without food. Until there is evidence that none COULD be alive the search has to continue. 

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Team probably in dry chamber at tail end of cave, says former district chief

By The Nation

 

Workers carry a pumper to be used in pumping flood water out of Tham Luang Cave in Chiang Rai's Mae Sai district in a bid to rescue a team of 12 young footballers and their assistant coach trapped inside the cave since June 23

 

A former Mae Sai district chief said yesterday that he did not think the missing team of 12 footballers and their assistant coach are taking shelter at the socalled “Pattaya Beach” in Tham Luang cave in the district as the onsite authorities have suggested.
 

Preecha Sripetch said he personally believed that the team may have by now retreated from the flooding and moved to the end of the cave which has the highest ground that is never flooded.

 

He said he was speaking from his own experience as he had travelled inside the cave to its end point about 20-25 years ago. He hiked for about 12 hours back and forth from the entrance to the end of the cave. However, he conceded, he had visited during the dry season when there was no flooding as is the case now.

 

At the end of the 10 kilometre-long cave there is a stone post saying, “The end of the way.”

 

“At that time, I walked down until the first hall, which is a high land full of rock, and then a three-fork intersection. I took the route to the right and found a dead end. The left way is waist high, and walking further leads to the spot where the Seal team is stationing,” he said.

 

A walk yet further leads to a white beach in the largest chamber of the cave, possibly having a capacity to hold about 100-200 people. The beach is now popularly know as Pattaya Beach.

 

From there, there was a muddy pond about 2030 metres long, then another hall with a rocky slope surrounded by water.

 

“I noticed that there were traces of rooftop flooding. Walking further down I came to a completely flooded area where I had to dive through. After that the land is higher and you will come to the end of the cave after walking for a long period,” he said.

 

“My personal view is that the missing team will be at the end of the cave because it is the safest spot due to its height and there is no history of flooding there,” he said.

 

The rescue mission is now focused on Pattaya Beach based on the belief that the missing Mu Pa Academy football club players are taking shelter in its large chamber after being trapped inside the cave since June 23.

 

Several teams of Seal divers are trying hard to reach a flooded chamber connected to Pattaya Beach. Without a map, their operations are proving an uphill task. All arrangements, including medical personnel, have been prepared and are on standby until they are found.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30349044

 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-07-01

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Searching for missing boys, Thai divers grope way through flooded cave

By Panu Wongcha-um

 

Soldiers and rescue workers work in Tham Luang cave complex, as an ongoing search for members of an under-16 soccer team and their coach continues, in the northern province of Chiang Rai, Thailand, July 1, 2018. REUTERS/Soe Zeya Tun

 

CHIANG RAI, Thailand (Reuters) - Thai navy divers had still to navigate their way through three kilometres of dark, flooded cave passages on Sunday to reach the spot rescuers believe would give 12 missing boys and their soccer coach a better chance of survival.

 

Eight days into the search, there has still been no contact with the boys, aged between 11 to 16, or their 25-year-old coach since they went off after soccer practice to explore the vast Tham Luang cave complex in Thailand's northern province of Chiang Rai.

 

With the boys' way out blocked by flood waters from the heavy rains, rescuers are hoping that they made it through to an elevated rock mound in one of the underground chambers far under the mountain. Cavers have nicknamed the potential safety spot "Pattaya Beach" after one of Thailand's best known tourist destinations.

 

Rear Admiral Apakorn Yuukongkaew, commander of Thailand's elite navy SEAL unit said divers had reached 'chamber three', having been driven back by rising floodwaters when they reached the same point earlier in the week.

 

"From chamber three to the intersection and then onto Pattaya Beach, this area is all flooded and dark," Apakorn told reporters. "It's about 3 kilometers from chamber 3 to Pattaya Beach."

 

The race to save the boys has dominated news bulletins, gripping the nation, and relatives of the missing children have kept up a long vigil at the mouth of the cave.

 

Dr Somsak Akkasilp, director-general of the Medical Services Department, said the group's survival depended on whether they found fresh drinking water, but he was concerned about the risk of infection from unclean water, or contact with some animal inside the cave.

 

"They should be okay without food for eight days," he said.

 

Rescue teams have also been scouring thick jungle on the mountainside for alternative routes into the cave.

 

Helicopters were seen flying over the cave complex on Sunday morning dropping supplies to police and other rescue teams that camped there overnight.

 

On Saturday, members of a police search team were lowered down a 50-metre shaft drilled from the surface to the cave, but it was unclear what progress they had made.

 

(Reporting by Amy Sawitta Lefevre and Panarat Thepgumpanat in BANGKOK; Writing by Amy Sawitta Lefevre; Editing by Simon Cameron-Moore)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-01

[greenchair]

No news since Saturday, around about the time of the "fake"emergency response practice. 

I'm suspicious. 

Something interesting must have happened by now. 

[greenchair]

Oops, there's some news. 

I'm just really not understanding why they haven't made this pattaya beach. 

[wvavin]

After so much news here and there, has anyone found yet?

[greenchair]

12 minutes ago, wvavin said:

After so much news here and there, has anyone found yet?

Nope. ?

[canuckamuck]

12 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Oops, there's some news. 

I'm just really not understanding why they haven't made this pattaya beach. 

Because they are 3 km downstream from it and the tunnel is flooded and there is a current.  One diver said he made it 1.5k upstream but it took 5 hours and at some points the current threatened to pull his mask off.

Unless the water goes down, it is impossible to get up there.

[greenchair]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Because they are 3 km downstream from it and the tunnel is flooded and there is a current.  One diver said he made it 1.5k upstream but it took 5 hours and at some points the current threatened to pull his mask off.

Unless the water goes down, it is impossible to get up there.

But I saw all those big pumps. 

 

[bannork]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Why would smugglers need to use a cave ?

They can just walk across the border

Let me take a guess. To avoid detection by soldiers , helicopters and villagers. No. that's far too simple.

Much more likely they have read 'The Smugglers' Caves' by Enid Blyton and thought they would give it a go themselves.