Trump will tell NATO nations U.S. cannot be the world's piggy bank

[webfact]

Trump will tell NATO nations U.S. cannot be the world's piggy bank

 

U.S. President Donald Trump boards Air Force One to depart for West Virginia, at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland, U.S., July 3, 2018. REUTERS/Leah Millis

 

ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE (Reuters) - President Donald Trump will tell fellow NATO countries at next week's summit that the United States cannot be "the world's piggy bank," White House spokesman Hogan Gidley said on Tuesday.

 

"What the president is going to do is go into these meetings with the mindset to protect the American people, stand with our partners and allies - but as he has said many times before America is thought so often to be the world’s piggy bank.

 

And that’s gotta stop," Gidley told reporters as Trump flew to West Virginia. Trump has pressured some NATO allies to significantly increase military expenditure.

 

(Reporting by Jeff Mason; Writing by Eric Beech and James Oliphant; Editing by Mohammad Zargham)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-04

[Topdoc]

NATO needs to be disbanded. It's time to move on.

[Credo]

59 minutes ago, Topdoc said:

NATO needs to be disbanded. It's time to move on.

Why bother to disband it.    With Trump around it will probably just fall apart.   

 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Topdoc said:

NATO needs to be disbanded. It's time to move on.

Towards what?

[GinBoy2]

I'm far from being a Trump supporter, but on this, he has a point.

For far too long various European nations have assumed that regardless of what they contribute, NATO, which means by default the US, would come to bail them out.

So, maybe NATO has outlived it's usefulness. Various EU countries seem happy enough to band together into a common defense force, so let it be.

Can't say you'll find many Americans who will be shedding any tears if this all comes to a gruesome end.

On the flip side however, the only real winner is Putin, but then again, Russia isn't in our backyard, so why worry!

[blazes]

While the Potus has a point re Nato, would it not be consistent of him if he were to avoid using the American taxpayers as his own personal piggybank?

I mean, does one man and his entourage really need a 747 to carry him the relatively short journey to W Virginia, when a 737 would do just as well.

Well, ok, not as GRAND as what DT has come to expect, but still, why stick the huge cost to the taxpayer?

 

[JCauto]

7 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I'm far from being a Trump supporter, but on this, he has a point.

For far too long various European nations have assumed that regardless of what they contribute, NATO, which means by default the US, would come to bail them out.

So, maybe NATO has outlived it's usefulness. Various EU countries seem happy enough to band together into a common defense force, so let it be.

Can't say you'll find many Americans who will be shedding any tears if this all comes to a gruesome end.

On the flip side however, the only real winner is Putin, but then again, Russia isn't in our backyard, so why worry!

Really quite amazing to observe how well the dissemination of confusing information and propaganda has worked. Here are today's Right, pleased at the prospect of a Europe dominated by an autocratic and corrupt Russia, abandoning trustworthy allies of decades for the villains they've been competing against. Dutch Reagan would not believe his eyes if he somehow came back to observe this pathetic spectacle.

[Aj Mick]

As The Donald embraces the despots of the world, and alienates US allies, the so called "leader of the free world" is taking his country down the path of isolation and irrelevance. 

[Baerboxer]

Whilst Trump has a point, that certain NATO members have simply ignored their promises and not spent the money they should and relied on sponging off American generosity, he goes about it in his usual "charming" manner.

 

So different to the professional politicians in style. Some like, some don't. But all these threats to the WTO, NATO and long established protocols, procedures, and institutions might be a good shake up; or their again could bring them all crashing down like houses of cards.

 

Somehow I get the feeling President Putin is smiling wryly at all this. And probably joking with his little mate Erdogan and the Iranians. Just watch for President Xi to spoil everyone's party. New those Chinese lessons were a good investment ?

[Boon Mee]

NATO countries need to pay their fair share. Trump is absolutely correct in stating that America will no longer be the world's piggy bank. 

[Emster23]

Trump probably never had a piggy bank, so can be excused on another point of ignorance.

You can only take out of a piggy bank what you earlier put in, unlike, say the national debt writing checks with no money in account

[maxcorrigan]

I think "the Don" should name the countries that don't pay their share as far as i know UK has always paid their share!

[Chomper Higgot]

The US strategy for a war with Russia was to fight that war in Europe.

 

Along comes Trump, attacking and attempting to undermine the EU and now undermining NATO.

 

cui bono?

[alanrchase]

NATO allies have broken no promises, the agreement gives them until 2024 to  achieve spending of 2% GDP. Since its formation the NATO allies have generally been used to do the bidding of the USA. Does anyone believe the US would cut spending and reduce its military if NATO allies spent more?

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

NATO allies have broken no promises, the agreement gives them until 2024 to  achieve spending of 2% GDP. Since its formation the NATO allies have generally been used to do the bidding of the USA. Does anyone believe the US would cut spending and reduce its military if NATO allies spent more?

Actually, the bizarre thing is on the one hand Trump wants to disengage the USA from a big share of its current defense obligations, but on the other wants to massively build up the military. What exactly for?

[simple1]

26 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

NATO countries need to pay their fair share. Trump is absolutely correct in stating that America will no longer be the world's piggy bank. 

I'm curious why Trump supporters never seem to fact check, just echo chambers for someone who is a proven liar in the public domain and dedicated spreader of misinformation.

 

NATO country contributions have been previously agreed with the goal for achieving  2% of GDP spend rate by 2024. Some countries have agreed to reach the goal earlier. In the meantime we have another example of Trump blatantly ignoring prior agreements, thereby minimising trust of the US by its allies and enabling Russian destabilisation efforts.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/world/europe/nato-trump-spending.html

Edited July 4, 2018 by simple1

[GinBoy2]

Since so many on TVF seem to despise the US role in the world, you should be overjoyed at the prospect of a new Isolationist USA.

Although remove the US from the bogey man role, who you gonna pick on?

[GinBoy2]

Just to clarify who spends what, here ya go...

[Tug]

Traitor don is just setting up for another Allie stabbing followed up by a happy ending for Putin’s wet dream so what if we pay a bit more do you think for a heart beat that the draft dodging pow insulting condo salesman has more smarts than all the great leaders after ww2 NATO exists for a reason so what if we pay a bit more I think Europe payed plenty back in the day

[JCauto]

1 minute ago, GinBoy2 said:

Since so many on TVF seem to despise the US role in the world, you should be overjoyed at the prospect of a new Isolationist USA.

Although remove the US from the bogey man role, who you gonna pick on?

That's an odd conclusion. The current President and his administration are the Nativist/Isolationists and those of us opposed to this are in favour of the current system of treaties and alliances based on shared liberal democratic ideals and free markets. My point in my earlier post was how ironic it was that it is the Republican/Right who are now the ones no longer in favour of democracy, free markets and a strong Western alliance as a bulwark against the corrupt autocracies whom the US has been opposing for the last 75 years or so. These used to be their core values.

 

 

[stevenl]

First the % paid needs to be comparable, there are at present major differences in calculation.

 

And yes, I agree an assessment of benefits etc. of NATO needs to be made, but it has to be part of the bigger geo political situation.

[stevenl]

31 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Just to clarify who spends what, here ya go...

Different ways of calculation, those percentages are not comparable. USA would still be on top most likely, but these charts are giving false information.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Actually, the bizarre thing is on the one hand Trump wants to disengage the USA from a big share of its current defense obligations, but on the other wants to massively build up the military. What exactly for?

Even more bizarre is that Trump's Tariff wars will slow NATO members GDP and make it more difficult to meet their 2% GDP target. Trump has created for NATO a Chinese finger trap.

Perhaps for the other NATO members it's time for their withdrawal from Afghanistan, Africa and Middle East where they supported US military missions. The savings can then be used to help meet their 2% GDP targets.

[puck2]

2 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

NATO countries need to pay their fair share. Trump is absolutely correct in stating that America will no longer be the world's piggy bank. 

... for another (NATO-) Iraq WAR???  

 

Under the LOTUS (=Liar Of The United States) The danger of another foolish (NATO)war is getting bigger and bigger.

[GinBoy2]

58 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Different ways of calculation, those percentages are not comparable. USA would still be on top most likely, but these charts are giving false information.

Whats  false? GDP is GDP,  spending as a % of that is what it is. At the end of the day no matter how you want to spin facts, the US contributes 73% of absolute NATO spending in dollar( or Euros or Pounds or whatever you choose)



 



Now I seem to recall many an EU leader spouting that they are the dominant economic force, maybe they would also like to be the dominant military force in terms of spending

Edited July 4, 2018 by GinBoy2

[robblok]

I am ok with the EU spending more on Nato but only if they got more say in it too. So we won't get dragged into wars that USA / Thrump wants. Its usually the US starting wars and the Nato having to help maybe the US should pay fully for all wars they start.

 

Paying more in NATO is ok if they get more to say too. I guess that is not what Thrump wants.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

 

 

Whats  false? GDP is GDP,  spending as a % of that is what it is. At the end of the day no matter how you want to spin facts, the US contributes 73% of absolute NATO spending in dollar( or Euros or Pounds or whatever you choose)



 



Now I seem to recall many an EU leader spouting that they are the dominant economic force, maybe they would also like to be the dominant military force in terms of spending

 

 

Yes, GDP is GDP.

 

Now please get back to us what is included in defense spending in the different mentioned countries.

 

This article may set you non the right track, https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2016/06/30/no-we-are-not-spending-as-much-on-our-military-as-all-other-countries-combined-and-other-facts-about-the-defense-budget-you-should-know/. From the article: "For example, many countries do not put health care for families and retirees into their military budgets as the U.S. does.  And this is a lot of money: the Congressional Budget Office reported in 2014 that in 2012 DoD offered healthcare to 10 million people (of which only 1.4 million were active duty troops) at the cost of $52 billion.

Additionally, contrary to what a lot of people think, the Pentagon – not the Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) – funds retired pay for military personnel.  This is expected to cost the Pentagon about $55 billion in 2017.  Again, other militaries don’t include this expense in their defense budgets.

".

Edited July 4, 2018 by stevenl

[1337markus]

11 hours ago, JCauto said:

Really quite amazing to observe how well the dissemination of confusing information and propaganda has worked. Here are today's Right, pleased at the prospect of a Europe dominated by an autocratic and corrupt Russia, abandoning trustworthy allies of decades for the villains they've been competing against. Dutch Reagan would not believe his eyes if he somehow came back to observe this pathetic spectacle.

Corrupt Russia ? LM<deleted>AO. And USA is not corrupt, open your mind!

[howbri]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Whilst Trump has a point, that certain NATO members have simply ignored their promises and not spent the money they should and relied on sponging off American generosity, he goes about it in his usual "charming" manner.

 

So different to the professional politicians in style. Some like, some don't. But all these threats to the WTO, NATO and long established protocols, procedures, and institutions might be a good shake up; or their again could bring them all crashing down like houses of cards.

 

Somehow I get the feeling President Putin is smiling wryly at all this. And probably joking with his little mate Erdogan and the Iranians. Just watch for President Xi to spoil everyone's party. New those Chinese lessons were a good investment ?

"Professional politicians" are what got us into our current mess. I'll take a businessman any day.

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, 1337markus said:

Corrupt Russia ? LM<deleted>AO. And USA is not corrupt, open your mind!

All countries have some level of corruption. I don't see any one claiming that any nation is 100% free of corruption.

It's more a matter to what extent a nation successfully minimizes corruption.

 

Using the 2017 Corruption Perceptions Index as a guide, Russia ranks #135 out of 180 nations vs the USA at #16 vs New Zealand at #1 (the higher the rank the worse corruption). For perspective Thailand ranks #96! https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017

In terms of relative between only the USA and Russia, the USA is corruption free.