more bike porn

[canthai55]

These guys are first rate.

If you can think it, or build it, they can run it ...

https://www.motec.com.au/home

https://www.motec.com.au/Main/ECUwizard/

Edited July 27, 2019 by canthai55

[thaiguzzi]

8 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

the future for the I C engine to survive

 

8 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

the future for the I C engine

... is dead unfortunately.

Will all be electric long after i've left this mortal coil.

My bikes are my boy's inheritance. To a time that once was. He will become the new keeper and curator.

8 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

that has no ignition system relying rather on huge compression ratio's with the fuel injected under very high pressure in a direct injection design the idea being a spontaneous combustion occurs for a much more complete burn rather than rely on spark initiation of an ignition system ..

Er, that's a diesel then

 

 

If you are a mechanic by trade, you will appreciate the simplicity of working on a Moto Guzzi motorcycle in general, and the engine in particular.

[Justgrazing]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

, that's a diesel then 

To a degree yes .. But the nut that has to cracked is controlling it and I'm sure you can visualize it is a process that has to be super accurate .. Ign too soon and you've got massive detonation , too late and power drops significantly .. The secret as far as I can tell is super accurate adjustment of the compression ratio and as V N has hit on a couple of posts back turbocharging plays a big part in that .. 

The future is undoubtedly being influenced by the electric brigade and as far light vehicles go are making progress on a lot of aspects of electric es'pesh the range but there is still a lot of work to do to make electric motorcycles attractive alternatives to I C engines .. Light vehicles get away with the batteries carried in the floorpan .. bikes don't have that advantage and batt's are key to range until they come up with something better .. Don't get me wrong all the players have electric bike R&D programmes and an electric class has been tried at both TT and Motogp and Motorsport is always a testing ground for new tech' .. But when all is said and done about electric being the future , for the present time modern 4 stroke engines are significantly more efficient and cleaner than days gone by .. As for new 2 strokes if anyone was going to do it then top of the list would be Yamaha .. Respect to the house of the 3 tuning forks .. 

 

[mogandave]

Electric will really go nowhere without continuously greater government subsidies and or mandates or without the development of an all new superconductor.

[eisfeld]

5 hours ago, mogandave said:

Electric will really go nowhere without continuously greater government subsidies and or mandates or without the development of an all new superconductor.

What would you need a superconductor for? Literally the only problem for electric vehicles is current batteries low energy density and I don't think a superconductor helps there in any way. The government also does not need to subsidize electric, it's already cheaper than fossil fuels. There will be no way around this huge change. I will certainly miss ICE motorcycles but I don't see any way to continue like we have so far.

[mogandave]

What would you need a superconductor for? Literally the only problem for electric vehicles is current batteries low energy density and I don't think a superconductor helps there in any way. The government also does not need to subsidize electric, it's already cheaper than fossil fuels. There will be no way around this huge change. I will certainly miss ICE motorcycles but I don't see any way to continue like we have so far.

I doubt very much when you look at all the costs of an electric vehicle, it is not currently (no pun intended) cheaper than IC.

Superconductor technology greatly reduces the amount of power required required for most anything.

Yes, the problem is the batteries, but that’s like saying the problem with IC engines is that they burn fossil fuels. There are no new generation batteries on the horizon, and the materials are expensive, not environmentally friendly and pretty limited.

If electricity is so cheap, why do not all trains run on electric? Technically they do (at least in the US) but the locomotive generated the electricity. With superconductor technology, you could just put lo voltage pickups on the tracks. You could do the same thing with cars and bikes on the highway.

[Isaanbiker]

 

      I've seen this bike at my mechanic Somchai in Sisaket. The rear tire is so fat that you don't really need a side stand.

 

   The front fork is so long that any curve is impossible to make.

 

  It's got an automatic gearbox you can shift by hand. A Honda 750 Four engine produces the horses.

 

Please look at the rear tire, hard to understand what holds it.

 

The bike's sitting on the two left mufflers now. 

 

  But I'd not ride that thing, it's more for your living room. 

 

   

Edited July 28, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[eisfeld]

10 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

I doubt very much when you look at all the costs of an electric vehicle, it is not currently (no pun intended) cheaper than IC.

Superconductor technology greatly reduces the amount of power required required for most anything.

Yes, the problem is the batteries, but that’s like saying the problem with IC engines is that they burn fossil fuels. There are no new generation batteries on the horizon, and the materials are expensive, not environmentally friendly and pretty limited.

If electricity is so cheap, why do not all trains run on electric? Technically they do (at least in the US) but the locomotive generated the electricity. With superconductor technology, you could just put lo voltage pickups on the tracks. You could do the same thing with cars and bikes on the highway.


 

Currently the purchase price is higher yes, agreed. But again that's because of the batteries. And with bigger and bigger mass production that'll change.

 

Superconductors don't greatly reduce the power required for most anything as you say. The help with some losses in wiring but that's really not an issue. The electric motor itself can easily get over 90% efficiency. Losses there are because of the magnetic field. A superconductor wont change this for example. The whole electric vehicle gets 60%+ from grid to power on the wheels. An ICE gets maybe 20%. Superconductors are really not needed nor are people looking into getting them into these scenarios.

 

You claim there are no new types of batteries on the horizon but there is absolute tons and tons of research into batteries and improvements. Hundreds of millions put into research. Not just because of electric vehicles but also smartphones. Compare that to what's going on with fossil fuels...

 

You claim the materials for batteries are limited. Well yes, everything is limited but not that it would be an issue. There's enough lithium in the sea to build a car for every person in the world with the capacity of a top tier Tesla without running out of it. And contrary to oil, the Lithium wont be consumed and disappear. Saying batteries are not environmentally friendly when compared to oil is silly.

 

In Europe a lot of trains run on electricity, there are buses and trams that run on electricity. Electricity from renewables compared to fossils is already cheaper per kWh than fossil fuels. But, storage is the issue.

Again, superconductors wont suddenly let you run cars and bikes with it on a highway, can you explain to me how that would work? These are not fixed tracks.

 

 

To come back on topic though... let me post the electric Hades by Curtiss.

 

[CGW]

2 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

I've seen this bike at my mechanic Somchai in Sisaket. The rear tire is so fat that you don't really need a side stand.

Not exactly "motorcycle porn" is it? start a "crappy motorcycle thread that nobody should ride thread"! Along with the Hardly wanabees............ ???? 

[Bill3173]

Just want to say hi and thanks. Being reading reading this thread for awhile now, it brings back so many memories of my younger days (a long time ago now).

 

Thaiguzzi, your post #2093, especially the pic of the gearbox, and your comment in post #2103“ If you are a mechanic by trade, you will appreciate the simplicity of working on a Moto Guzzi motorcycle in general, and the engine in particular ” really hit the spot. 

 

I once bought a Guzzi V7 special, early 1970’s, that was a complete basket case. It was stripped down to every last bolt, nut, spacer etc. And to make it worse, all the parts were mixed in together (not separated into components), all I had to put back the jigsaw puzzle was a spare parts manual. To my complete surprise, when the build was complete, it fired straight up first time. Ah, those were the days you could actually service, repair the bikes yourself.

 

Below is a pic of the model (not my actual bike) 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Bill3173

[Justgrazing]

2 hours ago, Bill3173 said:

once bought a Guzzi V7 special, early 1970’s, that was a complete basket case. It was stripped down to every last bolt, nut, spacer etc. And to make it worse, all the parts were mixed in together (not separated into components), 

Great stuff .. Yea know what you mean about boxes full of bits .. Bought an S2 350 Kawa the same .. Even the carbs had been stripped then everything chucked in a big cardboard box .. Took a weekend spreading it out on the workshop floor to see and assess exactly what was and wasn't there and making a list of what was needed to replace missing bits before could even think about putting it back together .. 

 

[thaiguzzi]

4 hours ago, Bill3173 said:

Thaiguzzi, your post #2093, especially the pic of the gearbox, and your comment in post #2103“ If you are a mechanic by trade, you will appreciate the simplicity of working on a Moto Guzzi motorcycle in general, and the engine in particular ” really hit the spot. 

Thanx.

I'm a bit of an OHV pushrod air cooled motor specialist.

I'd be lost on a water cooled DOHC motor with buckets and shims and Hivo chains and plastic oil pump gears and counter balancers.

Of all the engines i've worked on, the Guzzi big v twin is the most enjoyable, simple, and cleverly designed.

Next in simpleton terms would be BMW airheads post war to the early 80's.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by thaiguzzi

[canthai55]

42 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Of all the engines i've worked on, the Guzzi big v twin is the most enjoyable, simple, and cleverly designed.

For me ...

#1 - Panhead

#2 - Shovel

[ballpoint]

The 2017 CR700P, powered by a 700cc twin rotor Rotron Wankel engine, and produced by Brian Crighton, a former Norton engineer who worked on their rotary powered GP racers in the 80's and 90's.  200 bhp, 100 lbs/ft torque, claimed top speed of over 200 mph.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by ballpoint

[ballpoint]

Sticking with rotary engines, a gorgeous 2009 Crighton-Norton NRV588

 

 

Check out that red hot exhaust under testing:

 

 

[ballpoint]

A rather understated advert for the 1989 rotary powered Norton F1 

[ballpoint]

A couple more rotaries:

The very rare 1975 Hercules Wankel MX:

 

And a Hercules 6 day trials bike:

[Justgrazing]

30 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

The 2017 CR700P, powered by a 700cc twin rotor Rotron Wankel engine, and produced by Brian Crighton, a former Norton engineer who worked on their rotary powered GP racers in the 80's and 90's.  200 bhp, 100 lbs/ft torque, claimed top speed of over 200 mph.

 

Excellent stuff B P .. I read Crighton has a few developments to deal with the heat that rotary's produce for this including a liquid cooled crank which should be interesting and he's also developed rotor tip seals that don't need any oil in the petrol to help lubricate them .. the seals have long been an Achilles heel of these engines and on a race bike you can get away with added oil in the gas to help lube' them but that is not possible on a road bike because of the emissions issue so they've developed a new material for the seals but ain't saying what they are made of .. Love to see one of these in the real ..  

[Justgrazing]

31 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

A couple more rotaries:

The very rare 1975 Hercules Wankel MX:

 

And a Hercules 6 day trials bike:

Blimey ain't never seen one like that top bike .. Have to go and have a read up on that .. 

 

42 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Check out that red hot exhaust under testing:

Hahaha yea they do glow abit .. Here's another 4 rotor being caned on a dyno .. And the thing is with them they love to rev .. the higher the better which don't promote fuel economy .. 

A 4 rotor before build up .. With the right fuel and ign systems that will push out close to 500 hp and torque to match ..  

 

[ballpoint]

9 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Blimey ain't never seen one like that top bike .. Have to go and have a read up on that .. 

Along with the two off roaders, a few other models, all powered by the Sachs engine, were produced under the Hercules name, including this one, the 1974 W2000.  This was the first mass produced Wankel engine bike.  294cc, 20 bhp.  It originally ran on a 2-stroke mix, to lubricate the rotor, but later versions injected oil into the engine.  Must have belched out a bit of smoke.  Around 1800 were sold up to 1977, when they sold all of their production tooling to Norton.  So, in a way, this is the grand daddy of the NRV558 and CR700P that I posted earlier.

 

 

And the clever Wankel who started it all.  Dr Felix Wankel.

[thaiguzzi]

13 hours ago, canthai55 said:

For me ...

#1 - Panhead

#2 - Shovel

Believe me dude, i've worked on both Pans and Shovels, and fully rebuilt from the ground up Evos.

And all manner of Brit singles and twins and triples.

And as you know, i love all the above.

Believe me, when i say a Pan or Shovel is not even on the same planet regards ease of maintenance, simplicity of clever design or ease of rebuilding.

The first time you ever pull a Guzzi lump apart, as a mechanic, you will just go - 'Wow"! How neat was that. Just think of it as an American V8 car engine with 6 cylinders lopped off and you'll get the idea.

And as for removing primary, g/box and motor from the frame, we won't even go there.

[Damrongsak]

I rather like this one.  Simple.  Not sure if the thigh-warmer pipe would do well in Thailand.  Note the well-hidden master cylinder for the brakes.

 

More info and pics:

 

http://www.bikeexif.com/vintage-scrambler-motorcycle

 

 

[eisfeld]

4 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Note the well-hidden master cylinder for the brakes.

Wonder why the brake lines were run like that. Seems like it would unnecessarily make things complicated with all that movement back and forth when the front turns.

[VocalNeal]

On 7/28/2019 at 11:50 PM, Justgrazing said:

 

What i like about Wankels is they sound like a two-stroke. Well i suppose in a way they are. Lots of sound bites on interweb

Edited July 31, 2019 by VocalNeal

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

Wonder why the brake lines were run like that. Seems like it would unnecessarily make things complicated with all that movement back and forth when the front turns.

 

6 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Note the well-hidden master cylinder for the brakes.

BMW's from that period with the first front disc brakes ran that system stock.

M/cylinder on the frame, not on the bars.

That, along with not brilliant sliding calipers gave early BM disc brakes a (deserved) poor reputation.

Although the pike in the pic wears period (and far better) Brembo calipers, and has prolly kept the original BM m/cylinder arrangement for a clean h/bar look.

I would of said sod the clean look, stick a proper Brembo m/cylinder on the bars....

 

Here's a neat 650;

 

 

 

[Justgrazing]

4 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

What i like about Wankels is they sound like a two-stroke. Well i suppose in a way they are. Lots of sound bites on interweb

Indeed they do V N .. Not to mention their popping , banging and flame grilling anyone too close on the over run .. 

The awesome 4 rotor 787B at Goodwood a few yrs ago .. 

 

[mogandave]

BMW's from that period with the first front disc brakes ran that system stock.
M/cylinder on the frame, not on the bars.
That, along with not brilliant sliding calipers gave early BM disc brakes a (deserved) poor reputation.
Although the pike in the pic wears period (and far better) Brembo calipers, and has prolly kept the original BM m/cylinder arrangement for a clean h/bar look.
I would of said sod the clean look, stick a proper Brembo m/cylinder on the bars....
 
Here's a neat 650;

 
 
 

So it was a cable from the hand-lever to the MC?

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

So it was a cable from the hand-lever to the MC?

Jawohl.

Correctomondo.

 

More Beemers;

 

 

[ballpoint]

Another BMW, guaranteed to cause apoplexy in the Brexiteer brigade.  A German Spitfire.  Based on an R 1200 R.

 

Imagine seeing that coming up behind you in the rear view mirror...

 

 

 

[ballpoint]

And, for any crusty old chauvinists who are still conscious, wait till you see who rides it: