Timing of team’s discovery in cave was matter of luck: NYT

[oldlakey]

7 minutes ago, sambum said:

If the RTN Seals were so good, they wouldn't have needed any help, and I am sure that if they had any previous records of achievement in cave rescues it would have been trumpeted far and wide, and they would have deemed themselves to be totally capable of handling the situation themselves. For goodness sake, man. they asked the British divers to help because they had better knowledge of that particular cave than the Thais themselves!!!

 

I reckon a previous poster got it right about you - you're going on "Ignore" and as far as this post and you and I are concerned -  

   

I would never dream of putting such free entertainment on ignore

[sambum]

1 minute ago, oldlakey said:

I would never dream of putting such free entertainment on ignore

"Entertainment"? I would get more enjoyment from chewing a mouthful of wasps!

[neeray]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

No, actually, I am correct as this discussion that I'm commenting on is about whether the British divers were asked to come here when they did at the start of the search.  They weren't, simple as that, they volunteered.

Why all the silly bickering about who was first and how they (he) just happened to surface where the boys were located? This effort involved a huge diving team, all giving assist to those at the front end of the rescue. And those in the cave were backed up by many hundreds outside the cave. They formed a team. I very much doubt that the Brits are walking around with a puffed out chest so why are so many others trying to defend their position. Sooner or later, that part of the cave would have been explored. Great if it happened by happenstance when it did.

Only one thing counts right now. And we all know what that is !

I salute all volunteers who made the rescue to this point a success.

[Kieran00001]

9 hours ago, Just Weird said:

"...a well known troll round here".

I'm not sure who you're referring to but that's only the opinion, and a very weak cop-out, of those who have no rational argument to an opinion that differs from theirs and that makes more sense than theirs.

 

Here's an idea for you, if you think someone that disagrees with you is a troll why don't you report him, whoever he is, as trolling contravenes the forum rules?   

 

Here's an idea for you, mind your own business.

[Kieran00001]

10 hours ago, Just Weird said:

No, actually, I am correct as this discussion that I'm commenting on is about whether the British divers were asked to come here when they did at the start of the search.  They weren't, simple as that, they volunteered.

 

This is what you said.

Quote

Thailand did not ask for them those two divers, or any other teams to be brought in, the international teams are there because they all offered to help the Thai teams and their offers were accepted.

This is what I refer to.

Quote

The United States Pacific Command (PACOM) has sent a search-and-rescue team at the request of the Royal Thai government to assist in locating the group.

 

Do you need a bib with that?

[lvr181]

17 hours ago, sambum said:

 

"just a small part of a big rescue team of equally proficient divers.

Just that some are more equal than others.  

[Geordieabroad]

I wouldn't put too much faith in what the New York Times says considering the morning after the find, CNN were claiming that U.S. navy seals had found the boys

[Derek B]

On 7/5/2018 at 11:01 AM, Just Weird said:

They weren't "called in" , they volunteered. 

Where did I say that I wanted or accepted 2nd best and who are you to judge that the rest of the rescue teams are 2nd best? 

The Briton did an excellent job, obviously, but he just happened to be the first one there (they had to proceed in single file because of the conditions so someone had to be first) and found the boys by luck, not special skill or judgement, as he could not proceed any further because he had reached the end of the rope he was placing on the route. That's the reason he surfaced at that point.  That's the reason he found them, it could have been any member of that team and none of them are "2nd best".

"...not special skill or judgement...".   He ran out of rope and went a little further, surfaced because he could then found them and returned without rope guidance I assume - that was a judgement call made based on his personal skill & past experience most notably in this particular cave - no doubt about that. By having the courage to go that bit further without rope he probably saved hours of rescue time.

Also they were contacted & mobilised by the Thai authorities being flown in free of charge by Thai Airways.

FYI many public services in the UK are manned by unpaid volunteers - examples being Mountain Rescue Teams, Cave Rescue Teams and most notably the Royal National Lifeboat Institution RNLI all funded by public donations and possibly Lottery funds.

It was a team effort for sure however all teams have there strengths & weaknesses - and typically a leader.

 

Right now I only feel for the family & friends of the lost SEAL. I wonder if FIFA will have a moment of silence in his honour.

 

[anon537687643]

About 65,599,997 British people had nothing to do with what the three divers did in a cave in Thailand. Never understood how people who happen to have same passport feel entitled to claim some piece of achievements of others. Nationalism sucks.

I know who sucks with a comment like that! Saying that British Caver Divers are best in the world isn’t nationalism. Get over it !


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sambum]

10 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

This is what you said.

This is what I refer to.

 

Do you need a bib with that?

"A certain poster" needs to learn to read and engage his brain before making some of his comments:-

On 7/5/2018 at 11:01 AM, Just Weird said:

"They weren't "called in" , they volunteered."

 

The United States Pacific Command (PACOM) has sent a search-and-rescue team at the request of the Royal Thai government to assist in locating the group.

 

A certain poster then says he was referring to the British divers who weren't called in but volunteered - I've got news for him! (Everybody else seems to know!)

 

 "The trio were were sent by the British Cave Rescue Council, who had been contacted by Thai authorities to come to the aid of the missing team."

 

Now he'll probably say that the Australians  and Chinese "volunteered"!

[lvr181]

Jeez folks - time to give this 'sniping' a rest eh? PLEASE.

 

What you all are bitching about is not positive and not going to help the rescue or the rescuers! It is just 'self-centered one-upmanship' crap. 

[Kieran00001]

19 minutes ago, sambum said:

"A certain poster" needs to learn to read and engage his brain before making some of his comments:-

On 7/5/2018 at 11:01 AM, Just Weird said:

"They weren't "called in" , they volunteered."

 

The United States Pacific Command (PACOM) has sent a search-and-rescue team at the request of the Royal Thai government to assist in locating the group.

 

A certain poster then says he was referring to the British divers who weren't called in but volunteered - I've got news for him! (Everybody else seems to know!)

 

 "The trio were were sent by the British Cave Rescue Council, who had been contacted by Thai authorities to come to the aid of the missing team."

 

Now he'll probably say that the Australians  and Chinese "volunteered"!

 

Don't worry about it too much, not sure if he is trolling or just a thicky, but he is not friendly at all and will argue till the cows come home, best just avoided.

[grollies]

15 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

Jeez folks - time to give this 'sniping' a rest eh? PLEASE.

 

What you all are bitching about is not positive and not going to help the rescue or the rescuers! It is just 'self-centered one-upmanship' crap. 

I assumed with your history you'd have the hang of TVF by now.

Edited July 6, 2018 by grollies

[Dumbastheycome]

The  'luck' belongs  to  the  lost  group.  What  else is there  to  say?

[lvr181]

6 minutes ago, grollies said:

I assumed with your history you'd have the hang of TVF by now.

I just thought I would look in on this again only to find the same crows crowing! Becomes non-productive and tiring. Who really cares if some rescuers were volunteers (and good on them) or were asked by Thai authorities for their assistance. They are all there doing their best to help rescue the kids. That is the ONLY important point.

Laa gawn. 

[grollies]

1 minute ago, lvr181 said:

I just thought I would look in on this again only to find the same crows crowing! Becomes non-productive and tiring. Who really cares if some rescuers were volunteers (and good on them) or were asked by Thai authorities for their assistance. They are all there doing their best to help rescue the kids. That is the ONLY important point.

Laa gawn. 

Absolutely agree mate. I've given it a miss for a couple of days now as I couldn't bear to read all the BS comments.

[oldlakey]

2 hours ago, grollies said:

Absolutely agree mate. I've given it a miss for a couple of days now as I couldn't bear to read all the BS comments.

Its like a magnet

[sambum]

4 hours ago, lvr181 said:

I just thought I would look in on this again only to find the same crows crowing! Becomes non-productive and tiring. Who really cares if some rescuers were volunteers (and good on them) or were asked by Thai authorities for their assistance. They are all there doing their best to help rescue the kids. That is the ONLY important point.

Laa gawn. 

I totally appreciate your standpoint - at the end of the day the only thing that matters is that the kids all come home safely, and it is tragic that one life has been lost already in the efforts to bring them all back safely to their families.

The thing that sticks in my craw is that certain posters seem to be belittling and denying the fact that Thailand actually asked for help in this situation. All credit to to the people in authority that realised that the Thais needed help and were not too proud, or arrogant to ask for it. It doesn't really matter whether it is a "loss of face" to ask for help when the end result means that lives are saved. What does matter (to me) is that certain posters are trying to make themselves "Brownie Points" by saying that the rescuers were not asked to help, that they volunteered their services, when the truth of the matter is that THAILAND ASKED FOR HELP, and that help was immediately and freely given. This has become an International rescue operation, and as such, the chances of it coming to a happy ending can only be better than if handled by the Thais alone. The best in the world have been asked for their help. which has been freely given, and has proved to be successful up to now, and hopefully will continue right up to a happy conclusion.

 

[Fish Head Soup]

6 hours ago, lvr181 said:

What you all are bitching about is not positive and not going to help the rescue or the rescuers! It is just 'self-centered one-upmanship' crap. 

To be fair nothing posted on Thaivisa is going to help the rescuers or the rescue. Let's face it, they are not searching through the threads on this forum looking for solutions or moral support.

[Elkski]

It's so stupid how people want to brag on one nation just because that diver found the team.   " Best cave diver in the World".  Blah blah blah.  How is this measured?   As if cave diving takes some super talent it something.  This probably said by a non diver too.  

Not everyone can handle being in a dry cave in tight quarters.  Cave exploring requires a certain mindset.

Doing it on scuba even more so.  Maybe these guys were in top physical shape to dive against the current.  They had the gear and experience.  So what.  It's not that hard it requires some special skill that most people couldn't do it.  Some divers just love cave diving and it is a small number of people but I bet there are thousands of qualified people who could have helped out.   Why can't we all start thinking like we live on one World? 

I do hope all the team makes it out safety.   I hope they don't rush things.  If it is better to wait 4 months then just do it. 

 

[PepeLePew]

On 7/4/2018 at 4:44 PM, pathologix said:

Where did the NYT ever use the word "luck"?

In the title