Heavy rains may force early extraction of survivors

[b17]

5 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

I have to say Thai kids have NO FEAR as I have tried to follow Thais on their hopped up scooters while I was on my Kawasaki 650 and there is no way I would dare cut through traffic in the death defying way like they do. I think they will not panic.

I tend to agree - I don't often see ANY fear on the faces of all the young Thai people who fly past me on their motorbikes - they're nearly always helmetless,  frequently brainless,  and  always expecting success. Sounds like the perfect attitude to survive the cave run. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by b17

[Jdiddy]

15 minutes ago, yrag said:

i agree with one of the divers opinion....drug them

 

Then revived for the climbing parts? Will they be able to do the climbing parts after being drugged?

[Artisi]

15 minutes ago, yrag said:

i agree with one of the divers opinion....drug them, in other words mild sedative, so no anxiety and or drama so to speak...then just pull them out...worth a try

I would think highly skilled professionals should be the ones to advise on drugging, not the local governer or the local medico - it needs a very considered opinion based on knowledged experience. 

[DILLIGAD]

 
Then revived for the climbing parts? Will they be able to do the climbing parts after being drugged?

Would they not be ‘stretcher-ed out’ in that state?????


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[Fish Head Soup]

[yrag]

24 minutes ago, Jdiddy said:

 

Then revived for the climbing parts? Will they be able to do the climbing parts after being drugged?

Food for thought...

[Sheryl]

Surely it's better to try to dive at least some of them out now - and perhaps lose 1 or 2 of them, than to leave them all in this cave for 4 months, and perhaps lose all of them plus any rescuers that volunteer to stay with them.
 
I see in a previous post, that they are moving them due to rising water levels... From what I understand from the cave maps this will entail some diving anyway, including one very tight squeeze - assuming they will be moving back to Pattaya beach.

Where do you see that they are moving them anywhere?

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[steve73]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Where do you see that they are moving them anywhere?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

In the post 2 before the one you quoted... which you'd already questioned...

 

Hope I've not been duped into spreading false rumour.  Guilty as charged in this particular case..

But to be honest it wouldn't surprise me since the chamber they're in in pretty small, and not particularly high.. They may be a few much better places close by...or maybe they've been practicing their use of the underwater breathing kit..

[quadperfect]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well, it is very important that they are coached to stay positive, confident, and optimistic especially if they are to attempt the dive (which I've heard described as the cave diving equivalent of climbing Mt. Everest without a guide). 

But here outside the cave, it makes no difference whether we stay positive or not.

Objectively speaking, they face massive risks regardless of their frame of mind. 

 

It's been pointed out before it is a bad idea to sedate them. Parts of the dive need to be done without direct help. Sedating them would be disastrous. They would need to be ALERT.

Ever heard of xanex. Its a effective drug against panic disorders and anxiety.and it does not get you high or knock you out. 

[InfinityandBeyond]

7 minutes ago, steve73 said:

In the post 2 before the one you quoted... which you'd already questioned...

 

Hope I've not been duped into spreading false rumour.  Guilty as charged in this particular case..

But to be honest it wouldn't surprise me since the chamber they're in in pretty small, and not particularly high.. They may be a few much better places close by...or maybe they've been practicing their use of the underwater breathing kit..

You've made 2 posts in this thread mate. And nothing in this thread that I have seen suggests they have been moved. 

Maybe you got your threads mixed up? 

In any case, it's always good form to quote your sources or provide links to your assertions. Otherwise rumours become "fake news."

If someone on this thread has suggested they have been moved and I didn't see that, my apologies to you for this post. 

At the end of the day, I know you are pulling for these kids as am I and we all just want them to be reunited with their loved ones.

[steve73]

26 minutes ago, InfinityandBeyond said:

You've made 2 posts in this thread mate. And nothing in this thread that I have seen suggests they have been moved. 

Maybe you got your threads mixed up? 

In any case, it's always good form to quote your sources or provide links to your assertions. Otherwise rumours become "fake news."

If someone on this thread has suggested they have been moved and I didn't see that, my apologies to you for this post. 

At the end of the day, I know you are pulling for these kids as am I and we all just want them to be reunited with their loved ones.

Check out post #12 on page 1 of this thread.. my initial reference to it was post #14.

Post #12 is below..

7 hours ago, DILLIGAD said:

They have just been moved to a different part of the cave due to increasing water levels.


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edit: It's a pity the quoted posts don't show the ref #.. but then when posts get removed by the mods it all gets <messed> up.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by steve73

[DILLIGAD]

edit: It's a pity the quoted posts don't show the ref #.. but then when posts get removed by the mods it all gets up.
 
 

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[InfinityandBeyond]

14 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Check out post #12 on page 1 of this thread.. my initial reference to it was post #14.

Post #12 is below..

edit: It's a pity the quoted posts don't show the ref #.. but then when posts get removed by the mods it all gets <messed> up.

 

 

Fair enough. Not having a go. I see DILLIGAD just posted his source which you referenced. 

Let's hope these kids are out ASAP. Thanks DILLIGAD! 

[Ks45672]

55 minutes ago, quadperfect said:

Ever heard of xanex. Its a effective drug against panic disorders and anxiety.and it does not get you high or knock you out. 

Valium would be a better choice..... 

Less drowsy than xanax but still zero anxiety 

[RocketDog]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

Whatever happens, I think it's a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. Nobody can possibly predict the outcome and I wouldn't like to think it was me making that decision, which ever one they chose let's all hope it's the correct one. 

Agreed. But whichever approach they choose is the correct one. There are no guanteed outcomes with any approach.

I not criticizing, just saying there is no room for Monday morning quarterbacks in this game.Ya pays your money and you takes your chances.

 

Getting oxygen into the cave is one thing but removing the CO2 is quite another. Time is a wastin'.

 

I wish the best for them but consider their situation rash negligence on the young coach's part. But at this point it is what it is.

 

Gods know I did plenty of stupidly dangerous things on my own when I was younger. Pure luck that I survived some of them!

[vogie]

24 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I wish the best for them but consider their situation rash negligence on the young coach's part. But at this point it is what it is.

 

Gods know I did plenty of stupidly dangerous things on my own when I was younger. Pure luck that I survived some of them!

A lot of posters on here, myself included don't believe that the coach was negligent, if you can explain how he was negligent I would be very interested to hear your views.

But then you go on to say in your next sentence that you did a lot of stupidly dangerous things in your youth (as most of us did), but isn't that what youth is all about. We didn't deserve to be hung, drawn and quartered for it surely.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, steve73 said:

Check out post #12 on page 1 of this thread.. my initial reference to it was post #14.

Post #12 is below..

edit: It's a pity the quoted posts don't show the ref #.. but then when posts get removed by the mods it all gets <messed> up.

 

 

Not as messed up as it was with the nasty posts that were removed. Believe me, you do not want to read those.

 

it seems this is just a rumor feeding in itself. There has been no en masse movement from one part of the cave to another, nor would that be feasible in anything like a short time since any movement from there requires diving, and from there to Pattaya Beach requires dive not just through open water but through the worst, tightest, twistest spots of all.

 

Whether or nto extraction of any of the boys has begun, we don't know. I don't think anyone will, not even the Command Post, until divers reach Chamber 3 either with a boy or (like last night) a message that they are still not ready. Those in charge have already made clear the decision to start bringing them out when they are, only the divers and SEAL dioctor etc on site can know when that is.

[steve73]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

..

it seems this is just a rumor feeding in itself. There has been no en masse movement from one part of the cave to another, nor would that be feasible in anything like a short time since any movement from there requires diving, and from there to Pattaya Beach requires dive not just through open water but through the worst, tightest, twistest spots of all.

 

Whether or nto extraction of any of the boys has begun, we don't know. I don't think anyone will, not even the Command Post, until divers reach Chamber 3 either with a boy or (like last night) a message that they are still not ready. Those in charge have already made clear the decision to start bringing them out when they are, only the divers and SEAL dioctor etc on site can know when that is.

Thanks.. After just watching part of the DM video, I'm thinking it was that the boys had already moved from Pattaya Beach (where they were expected to be found) further in to "Mother's Boob's", where they actually were found.  I didn't interpret anything that suggested they'd been moved since being found...

 

As you are suggesting, it now appears that such movement is currently underway, and hopefully leading to extraction.  I just hope they haven't left it too late with the recent reports of heavy rain.

My thoughts to all concerned in this hopefully final phase.

[DILLIGAD]

Fair enough. Not having a go. I see DILLIGAD just posted his source which you referenced. 
Let's hope these kids are out ASAP. Thanks DILLIGAD! 

Sorry for delay. I had trouble sourcing it!


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[InfinityandBeyond]

3 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

Sorry for delay. I had trouble sourcing it!


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No dramas. We are all united in the hopes of a happy outcome.

[lvr181]

It seems from activity at the cave entrance (privacy screens in place) that possible rescues may already be underway.

[steve73]

4 hours ago, lvr181 said:

It seems from activity at the cave entrance (privacy screens in place) that possible rescues may already be underway.

Privacy screes with big signs saving "Danger - Explosives"..... I hope that's just to keep the rubber-neckers away, rather than them actually having plans to use the bang-bang stuff..

[Sheryl]

Tweet from ThaiArmedForces hase comgirmed this is "D Day".

 

A press conference called but has not yet taken place.

 

With the media no longer on site rumors are starting to be rampant. This will probably orsen as the day goes by. The officials will be focused entirely on the operation, not on feeding scraps of info to the media, which is as it should be. Please all posters be careful re posting rumors. Include your sources.

 

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[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Tweet from ThaiArmedForces hase comgirmed this is "D Day".

 

A press conference called but has not yet taken place.

 

With the media no longer on site rumors are starting to be rampant. This will probably orsen as the day goes by. The officials will be focused entirely on the operation, not on feeding scraps of info to the media, which is as it should be. Please all posters be careful re posting rumors. Include your sources.

 

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Thank You for that Sheryl. If and when the press conference takes placeand that the operation is underway is confirmed, couldyou please close some of the less important cave rescue threads? Thanks.

[terminatorchiangmai]

i did see last night on tv  a sort of canvas tunnel been tested in a swimming pool. That look very promising , no water inside. I hope so it works and all children are out safe today!

 

[Kohsamida]

Update on Tham Luan cave rescue; Rescue operation has begun as of 10:10 am today.  18 elite divers have entered the cave.  Details on specifics is not clear, but the divers are now on their way.  Officials expect the rescue operation to go on through the day and the first kids will not emerge from the cave before 10am tomorrow, though the first of the kids should be in the "safe zone" by 9pm tonight

 

Our prayers should be with them.  This is considered one of the most dangerous cave rescue dives in history, but apparently there are now no other viable options except to swim them out even though most of the kids cannot even swim.  Thunderstorms expected to start in earnest by late afternoon to day so this is now a race against time. 

[RocketDog]

On 7/7/2018 at 9:06 AM, vogie said:

A lot of posters on here, myself included don't believe that the coach was negligent, if you can explain how he was negligent I would be very interested to hear your views.

But then you go on to say in your next sentence that you did a lot of stupidly dangerous things in your youth (as most of us did), but isn't that what youth is all about. We didn't deserve to be hung, drawn and quartered for it surely.

Well, my reasoning is based on the fact that locals warn their kids against entering the cave. Second, how much sense does it take to realize that exploring any large cave is potentially dangerous? Third, what you and a few buddies do in you spare time is far different that being responsible for a pack of young kids who depend on your experience and judgment.

What I issued was a mild rebuke, hardly a drawing and quartering. Incidentally, the leader seems to almost honored now for his questionabke behavior. To pretend that he is blameless in this fiasco is shallow thinking in my opinion.

 

Do you think he sleeps well at night as he reviews the decisions he made in those early days?

It is a simple fact that, regardless of age, some of the things we do while young DO affect us the rest of our lives. What 'we deserve' has little to do with what we get in life.

 

[vogie]

28 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Well, my reasoning is based on the fact that locals warn their kids against entering the cave. Second, how much sense does it take to realize that exploring any large cave is potentially dangerous? Third, what you and a few buddies do in you spare time is far different that being responsible for a pack of young kids who depend on your experience and judgment.

What I issued was a mild rebuke, hardly a drawing and quartering. Incidentally, the leader seems to almost honored now for his questionabke behavior. To pretend that he is blameless in this fiasco is shallow thinking in my opinion.

 

 

Do you think he sleeps well at night as he reviews the decisions he made in those early days?

It is a simple fact that, regardless of age, some of the things we do while young DO affect us the rest of our lives. What 'we deserve' has little to do with what we get in life.

 

"Well, my reasoning is based on the fact that locals warn their kids against entering the cave."

You say fact, have you a link or proof to this fact?

 

"Second, how much sense does it take to realize that exploring any large cave is potentially dangerous? Third, what you and a few buddies do in you spare time is far different that being responsible for a pack of young kids who depend on your experience and judgment."

The cave was not signed as "potentially dangerous" it had a sign saying the danger was the month after, they entered the cave unknowing the dangers ahead.

 

"Do you think he sleeps well at night as he reviews the decisions he made in those early days?"

I don't know if he sleeps well at night, how could I. I know one thing though, he has no reason not to sleep well at night. 

 

All I know is you were not there, and if you were could you have coped as well as that young coach, I don't think so, but it is too easy to criticise someone from the comfort of our chairs.

 

 

[Ks45672]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Well, my reasoning is based on the fact that locals warn their kids against entering the cave. Second, how much sense does it take to realize that exploring any large cave is potentially dangerous? Third, what you and a few buddies do in you spare time is far different that being responsible for a pack of young kids who depend on your experience and judgment.

What I issued was a mild rebuke, hardly a drawing and quartering. Incidentally, the leader seems to almost honored now for his questionabke behavior. To pretend that he is blameless in this fiasco is shallow thinking in my opinion.

 

Do you think he sleeps well at night as he reviews the decisions he made in those early days?

It is a simple fact that, regardless of age, some of the things we do while young DO affect us the rest of our lives. What 'we deserve' has little to do with what we get in life.

 

I don't think he will ever look back on this without guilt and regret, especially when he knows a man died trying to save them.. 

 

But he managed to keep his wits and control the boys when things were looking bleak 

 

Not everyone could maintain composure as well as he did so he deserve credit for that alone if nothing else

 

 

[RocketDog]

23 hours ago, vogie said:

"Well, my reasoning is based on the fact that locals warn their kids against entering the cave."

You say fact, have you a link or proof to this fact?

 

"Second, how much sense does it take to realize that exploring any large cave is potentially dangerous? Third, what you and a few buddies do in you spare time is far different that being responsible for a pack of young kids who depend on your experience and judgment."

The cave was not signed as "potentially dangerous" it had a sign saying the danger was the month after, they entered the cave unknowing the dangers ahead.

 

"Do you think he sleeps well at night as he reviews the decisions he made in those early days?"

I don't know if he sleeps well at night, how could I. I know one thing though, he has no reason not to sleep well at night. 

 

All I know is you were not there, and if you were could you have coped as well as that young coach, I don't think so, but it is too easy to criticise someone from the comfort of our chairs.

 

 

Every cave is potentially dangerous. People who have no caving experience or guides who do should be wary of taking a troup of kids into one. The sign you mentioned should be sufficient reason for him to back off. There is no reason to believe that "they entered the cave unknowing the dangers ahead."  That's just nonsense.

Is there reason to believe street racing sounds like fun when you've never ridden a motorcycle? There are no signs posting the danger.

 

While I feel sorry that his decision led to a death and endangered scores of other folks, I maintain that his decision was a bad one and he demonstrated negligence.

 

He in fact should not sleep well at night. Would you in his place?

 

All of us make/made bad decisions in our lives and it is cowardly to rationalize them as just bad luck . When a decision you make causes harm to others then you should regret and question it. Otherwise you will learn nothing from it.

 

You are welcome to have another go at this but don't expect any reply. We've both had our say and won't change our minds.

 

As you say, we weren't there and ultimately our opinions are irrelevant.