What Is Wrong With Thialand

[WilliamCave]

Hello all. I have been reading alot of postings on business and home ownership in LOS. I have been to many other countries and as a tourist I am treated very good and if I want to invest in realistate in various countries they are more than willing to assist me in doing so. The US, Canada, Europe, Australia and other countries seem to be doing very well. They incourage direct investment and to buy a home in theses countries there attitude is if u have the money u can buy what u want. There economies are good and tourism is excelent.

My question is why in thailand do they discourage and put laws in to place to insure foreign investement is stoped at the door. Just buying a house and spending my retirement there the government should be happy I want to spend my money there. The other countries are more than willing to let me spend my money in there countries, Why does thailand not want this what am I not undestanding. To me a country is like a business if someone wants to spend money in my business I am happy and going to make money.

What is wrong with thailand?

[tijnebijn]

wrong?Well,too much to discuss about.But they are their choices,for what they think is best for them.And then in particular I mean the upper rich class who have everything to lose,they won everything allready,power is the main thing.The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer,and in this context very correct.

It is like old fashioned thinking,look at all the old brasses of bosses in Thai,they won't make life better or change things for the good??But they (old farts) with their old way of thinking let things stay how they are ,the rich want to go richer do you understand what I mean?

That's why things are how they are,and will never change here it's asia,it is a way of life.

By the way why you would want to buy a place anyway,if you enjoy life here,you cannot take money with you anyway when you die...So enjoy Thai how it is,and invest your money elsewhere....

[mark lamai]

very funny!!.....

[DragonQuest]

Agreed.

[toptuan]

wrong?Well,too much to discuss about.But they are their choices,for what they think is best for them.And then in particular I mean the upper rich class who have everything to lose,they won everything allready,power is the main thing.The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer,and in this context very correct.

It is like old fashioned thinking,look at all the old brasses of bosses in Thai,they won't make life better or change things for the good??But they (old farts) with their old way of thinking let things stay how they are ,the rich want to go richer do you understand what I mean?

That's why things are how they are,and will never change here it's asia,it is a way of life.

By the way why you would want to buy a place anyway,if you enjoy life here,you cannot take money with you anyway when you die...So enjoy Thai how it is,and invest your money elsewhere....

Translation: This is the "Thai way." Love it or leave it.

The Deeper Implications:

"The status quo is better than doing what it takes to join the ranks of the developed countries. But oh my, how can we enjoy all the benefits of developed countries without losing our personal control and power?"

Edited February 3, 2007 by toptuan

[lannarebirth]

Hello all. I have been reading alot of postings on business and home ownership in LOS. I have been to many other countries and as a tourist I am treated very good and if I want to invest in realistate in various countries they are more than willing to assist me in doing so. The US, Canada, Europe, Australia and other countries seem to be doing very well. They incourage direct investment and to buy a home in theses countries there attitude is if u have the money u can buy what u want. There economies are good and tourism is excelent.

My question is why in thailand do they discourage and put laws in to place to insure foreign investement is stoped at the door. Just buying a house and spending my retirement there the government should be happy I want to spend my money there. The other countries are more than willing to let me spend my money in there countries, Why does thailand not want this what am I not undestanding. To me a country is like a business if someone wants to spend money in my business I am happy and going to make money.

What is wrong with thailand?

Look at your own country, Canada. I have PR in Canada, but some friends of mine, who own a home there do not. They can visit it 6 months out of every 12, unless they want to cough up a ton of loonies for one of Canadas immigrant schemes. It's understandable somewhat in Thailand, why impediments are placed in the way of foreigners regarding land ownership. It's a small country and it would be very easy for prices to escalate beyond the means of the citizenry. Why Canada behaves similarly is anybody's guess.

[PeaceBlondie]

Dear William Cave,

You may have noticed that Ayuddyha does not resemble Saskatoon or Montreal. Just ain't the same. There are countries that don't want our money, not if it means they have to give us clear legal title to real estate. And they don't want us working here if it might take a job away from a Thai (whether or not the Thai wants the job, or will even do it).

My old girlfriend was on Prince of Wales Island, near Canada, when she came upon a mama bear about two metres tall. That mama bear did not want to share any portion of the island with my girlfriend. So, my GF ran a hasty retreat.

You don't have to figure out why the Thais want to keep Thailand Thai; you only need to understand that they do. I can't really blame them; I donn't want Chiang Mai to resemble Amarillo, Texas.

Good luck. And if you see that mama bear, run fast.

[toptuan]

...but isn't it kind of pitiful when the paranoid territorial momma bear suddently decides she wants to drive a Mercedes SUV, live in a western-style house with air conditioning, and exercise on her "American Fitness" treadmill with her Sony MP3 earphones blaring "My Hump" into her soft little Pooh-Bear ears?

And then finds out she can't have it both ways?

Edited February 3, 2007 by toptuan

[Goshawk]

Hello all. I have been reading alot of postings on business and home ownership in LOS. I have been to many other countries and as a tourist I am treated very good and if I want to invest in realistate in various countries they are more than willing to assist me in doing so. The US, Canada, Europe, Australia and other countries seem to be doing very well. They incourage direct investment and to buy a home in theses countries there attitude is if u have the money u can buy what u want. There economies are good and tourism is excelent.

My question is why in thailand do they discourage and put laws in to place to insure foreign investement is stoped at the door. Just buying a house and spending my retirement there the government should be happy I want to spend my money there. The other countries are more than willing to let me spend my money in there countries, Why does thailand not want this what am I not undestanding. To me a country is like a business if someone wants to spend money in my business I am happy and going to make money.

What is wrong with thailand?

The Land Of Smiles it may be.. but beware, the smiles are only skin deep...! As a visitor to this country (and lets all be honest) that means every farang 'living' here regardless of his type of visa will always be seen as a threat to the very heart of the national Thai psyche...

The Thais are a very proud nation most notabely from the fact that historically they have never been invaded or conquered, and while they welcome visitors you have to bear this in mind and (quite rightly) conclude that the native ruling families of this nation do not want to give away so much as one rice paddy of land to anyone who aint Thai.. t'would be seen as a modern day invasion, major loss of face and a big no no to the average, educated perma-smiling Thai citizen..

Truth hurts i know, but that is the way it is... I say 'hurts' only to those who don't realise how smart the Thais actually are for doing this... I'm quite happy to pretend to live here. Are you ?

Incidently, i drove by the Democracy Monument in BKK last week.. do you think it should be covered up now ?

[qualtrough]

The Thais are a very proud nation most notabely from the fact that historically they have never been invaded or conquered, and while they welcome visitors you have to bear this in mind and (quite rightly) conclude that the native ruling families of this nation do not want to give away so much as one rice paddy of land to anyone who aint Thai.. t'would be seen as a modern day invasion, major loss of face and a big no no to the average, educated perma-smiling Thai citizen..

Never been invaded or conquered??? Have you ever cracked open a book about Thailand? I wouldn't believe anything you had to say about Thailand if you are that ignorant.

[toptuan]

The Thais are a very proud nation most notabely from the fact that historically they have never been invaded or conquered, and while they welcome visitors you have to bear this in mind and (quite rightly) conclude that the native ruling families of this nation do not want to give away so much as one rice paddy of land to anyone who aint Thai.. t'would be seen as a modern day invasion, major loss of face and a big no no to the average, educated perma-smiling Thai citizen..

Never been invaded or conquered??? Have you ever cracked open a book about Thailand? I wouldn't believe anything you had to say about Thailand if you are that ignorant.

OK, OK, so the poster missed a few little centuries of Khmer/Burmese/Lao invasions, and total Japanese domination during WW2*...

What the poster probably meant to refer to was that Thailand has never been colonized by western powers, notably European, as has all her neighbors. Thais will frequently, and proudly refer to that historical point of reference, along with the assertion that the very word "Thai" means "free" or "freedom" (disputed by linguistic historians).

*By the way, running down a side bunny trail for a moment, here's a copy from one of the pages of a dual-language leaflet the Japanese dropped all over Thailand and Burma during their invasion in WW2. It shows Thai soldiers and children welcoming the "liberators" with smiles, handshakes, and eager cooperation...

Edited February 3, 2007 by toptuan

[qualtrough]

OK, OK, so the poster missed a few little centuries of Khmer/Burmese/Lao invasions, and total Japanese domination during WW2...

What the poster probably meant to refer to was that Thailand has never been colonized by western powers, notably European, as has all her neighbors. Thais will frequently, and proudly refer to that historical point of reference.

True, but not a mistake likely to be made by anyone with more than a passing knowledge of Thai history.

[Goshawk]

The Thais are a very proud nation most notabely from the fact that historically they have never been invaded or conquered, and while they welcome visitors you have to bear this in mind and (quite rightly) conclude that the native ruling families of this nation do not want to give away so much as one rice paddy of land to anyone who aint Thai.. t'would be seen as a modern day invasion, major loss of face and a big no no to the average, educated perma-smiling Thai citizen..

Never been invaded or conquered??? Have you ever cracked open a book about Thailand? I wouldn't believe anything you had to say about Thailand if you are that ignorant.

OK, OK, so the poster missed a few little centuries of Khmer/Burmese/Lao invasions, and total Japanese domination during WW2.

What the poster probably meant to refer to was that Thailand has never been colonized by western powers, notably European, as has all her neighbors. Thais will frequently, and proudly refer to that historical point of reference.

OK OK... so invasion may have slipped my mind. Yeah, I did mean COLONIZATION.. Boy, you were quick to jump on that one... SNARL SNARL...

[Goshawk]

Rest of my post is so true....

[mittheimp]

Why would a developing nation with a comparitevely weak economy want to let all its prime real estate be taken by foreign investors - hiking up house prices almost everywhere? Thailand does pretty well out of the tourist industr - no need to let ouside investors actually buy the country!

[toptuan]

Why would a developing nation with a comparitevely weak economy want to let all its prime real estate be taken by foreign investors - hiking up house prices almost everywhere? Thailand does pretty well out of the tourist industr - no need to let ouside investors actually buy the country!

Commercial and residential real estate ownership is a key lynchpin in any country's economic policy to attract foreign investment and insure a robust economy.

That's why.

And that's one reason why the USA, Europe, and Japan are in the economic stratosphere compared to Thailand. Hiking up house prices is your concern? What about all the new jobs and increased wages that result from foreign investment? That more than offsets higher prices.

I'm sorry, but your comment is more xenophobic-based than economically sound.

Edited February 3, 2007 by toptuan

[mittheimp]

Why would a developing nation with a comparitevely weak economy want to let all its prime real estate be taken by foreign investors - hiking up house prices almost everywhere? Thailand does pretty well out of the tourist industr - no need to let ouside investors actually buy the country!

Commercial and residential real estate ownership is a key lynchpin in any country's economic policy to attract foreign investment. That's why. And that's one reason why the USA, Europe, and Japan are in the economic stratosphere compared to Thailand.

Really? You honestly believe that? So with an open real estate policy Thailand would be pushing Japans USA and other European power houses? mmmm not really related to geographical factors and 100's of years of historical events then!

China is not doing too badly with an even more regulated system!

What do you think the cultural knock on effects would be? Thai fishing communities get pushed around enough now as it is by deveopers - with a much bigger market they would be obliterated - You really want to see Thailands scenic coast become entirely a second home community for the western rich?

Edited February 3, 2007 by mittheimp

[thaihome]

This is the classic post of someone having some personal issue, in this case owning property, and thinking that their issue is some how keeping Thailand from raising to the levels of more developed countries. This is narcissism at it greatest heights.

TH

[toptuan]

Really? You honestly believe that? So with an open real estate policy Thailand would be pushing Jpana USA and other European power houses? mmmm not really related to geographical factors and 100's of years of historical events then!

China is not doing too badly with an even more regulated system!

What do you think the cultural knock on effects would be? Thai fishing communities get pushed around enough now as it is by deveopers - with a much bigger market they would be obliterated - You really want to see Thailands scenic coast become entirely a second home community for the wester rich?

Good point, and notice that I'm not discounting other factors. You'll notice I said "one of the reasons..."

What do Thai fishing communities getting pushed around by Thai developers have to do with the argument? Now THAT's a cultural problem (Thai hierarchical social system of dominance imposed on the Thai economic system).

Thailand desperately needs the influence of foreign investment and along with that comes foreign business management skills that have made other countries successful.

I have engaged in sucessful international business in five Asian countries, but Thailand is a major struggle due to the "Thai way" which minimizes the importance of contracts, business without bribery, and meeting deadlines...just to name a few. Great place to live and teach (which I do now), but my heart can't stand the stress of trying business here!

Edited February 3, 2007 by toptuan

[mittheimp]

What do Thai fishing communities getting pushed around by Thai developers have to do with the argument? Now THAT's a cultural problem (Thai hierarchical social system of dominance imposed on the Thai economic system). Thailand desperately needs the influence of foreign investment and along with that comes foreign business management skills that have made other countries successful.

I don't really understand your point - but obviously economic policy has a big impact upon culture - therefore it is worthy of consideration. Foreign investment in a developing country occurs when it is financially beneficial for the company - i.e cheap efficient labour. The investment bubble in Thailand was burst when China could offer cheaper and more efficient labour - nothing to do with real estate not being available!

[toptuan]

China is not doing too badly with an even more regulated system!

...and is your economic argument why China is moving toward free-market, non-governmental ownership of businesses and real-estate, beefing up their stock market system for foreign investment, floating the Yuan for better international economic compatibility, etc.?

Doesn't compute.

Edited February 3, 2007 by toptuan

[qualtrough]

There are very few countries that allow the unrestricted ownership of property by foreigners, only a handful really. I don't think that issue is going to make or break Thailand.

[toptuan]

Mitthiep, we need to be hashing this out over a good bitter ale on a barstool somewhere. After enough pints, our arguments would begin to mesh, I'm sure of it!

Edited February 3, 2007 by toptuan

[toptuan]

There are very few countries that allow the unrestricted ownership of property by foreigners, only a handful really. I don't think that issue is going to make or break Thailand.

Yes, and would you name a few of those countries, please?

Let's see which countries, being friendly to foreign investment/property ownership plays out, shall we?

Then conversely, name the countries most restrictive to foreign property ownership--and let's compare the two lists, sorting in order of economic health.

Do we really need to go through the exercise? You all know examples of both types.

I rest my case.

Edited February 3, 2007 by toptuan

[mittheimp]

I have engaged in sucessful international business in five Asian countries---

What were the five asian countries?

[toptuan]

I have engaged in sucessful international business in five Asian countries---

What were the five asian countries?

Singapore, Japan, South Korea, China (mainland), and The Philippines.

Sadly, even the last two countries are much more forward-thinking and progressive than Thailand in their management skills (influenced by foreign investment and activity.) They're not stuck on "The Chinese Way" or "The Filipino Way." There's a more open spirit of cooperation and willingness to try it a different way.

Edited February 3, 2007 by toptuan

[mittheimp]

I have engaged in sucessful international business in five Asian countries---

What were the five asian countries?

Japan, South Korea, China (mainland), Philippines, and Singapore.

Japan/South Korea/ Singapore are economic powerhouses themselves so would not have the same concerns as Thailand with opening up the real estate market.

China - dosnt have the appeal of a 'tropical paradise' such as Thailand so again does not have the same concerns - although i guess real estate ownership is highly regulated anyway.

Philippines - a country with a disgraceful disparity between the rich and the poor - very little has filtered down to those at the bottom of the social/ecomic ladder - i doubt such an unregulated approach has helpped anyone other than the lucky or corrupt folk at the top!

[grrr]

What Is Wrong With Thialand? What is wrong with your spelling?

[toptuan]

China ....although i guess real estate ownership is highly regulated anyway.

What's important to this discussion is the direction they're moving...toward deregulation. They're seeing the light. In the late 90's, real-estate ownership for individuals and businesses become possible for the first time under communist rule.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that the climate of restricting foreign ownership and investment is a boon to any economy which pretends to be an active player in the international arena (which Thailand claims it wants).

[Johpa]

The Thais are a very proud nation most notabely from the fact that historically they have never been invaded or conquered, and while they welcome visitors you have to bear this in mind and (quite rightly) conclude that the native ruling families of this nation do not want to give away so much as one rice paddy of land to anyone who aint Thai.. t'would be seen as a modern day invasion, major loss of face and a big no no to the average, educated perma-smiling Thai citizen..

Apart from mutual historical invasions by neighbors throughout Southeast Asia, perhaps you have failed to notice that the economy of Thailand is dominated by Thai-Chinese who now constitute the major ruling families apart from the few old Sakdina families whose power and infuence have been in decline or been diffused by marriage into the Sino-Thai elite.